Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons

[vulture]

I would prefer to trade Siakam than FVV. His shooting and leadership is huge for this team imo.

[vulture]

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[ruckus]

Simmons is interesting fit. A defensive end nightmare. Especially if him, OG, Scottie, Pascal and Achiuwa on the court. However, the O will be brutal.

I don't see him wanna come up, he is not getting enough fame here. Plus, he is attention whore, and he just wanna date models. He wanna go LA.

Maybe GS will be a place for him. Flip Wiggins (maybe with a first or Wiseman/Moody) for him. GSW needs to win, and it will help them as Klay and Curry are outside threat.

That's interesting because Toronto has models. Many players have dated, or even married, women from Toronto. I am sure he can find enough to keep him happy.

I don't think he's a great fit here. Barnes is an outgoing personality, I can see issues like with Embiid. He will never be a decent shooter. He might get better but never decent plus he has mental blocks that prevent him from reaching full potential. So you have to consider him as he is more than what he can become because that ship is sailing.

In GSW it would be a wonderful thing with Curry as the shooting guard. Him, Draymond and Klay on defense. Good team. And I can see him and Klay really getting along.

Toronto or Canada in general has a lot of great models. However, it is the fame that Ben Simmons enjoy. First Kardashian then the chick that he went to Wimbledon with. Speaking of Wimbledon, he said he would work on his game during that time. I guess he meant the dating game.

Anyway, I don't think he will end up here. I mean it will causes great defensive team but no 3s, no shooter and lack of interior size will not bring us far.

Ya only GSW make sense, they can carry him on offence. He will be valuable on D, which GSW can definitely use some of it. GSW wanna win while still have the core of Steph, Klay and Draymond. Iggy experiment helped them before and Simmons can provide something similar. I will say that's the best fit for both Simmons and GSW

If it's about fame, I'd argue that Kawhi increased his fame and popularity in Toronto through no real effort outside of playing basketball. Canadian social media took Kawhi and ran with it. Whereas in LA, he's kinda disappeared into the woodwork.

Anywhere else, Ben won't get the recognition he's looking for. As long as he shows up and plays hard, Toronto fans will love him and espouse that fact all over the internet.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I kind of want to see this bleed into the regular season, if Ben's sitting out.

It'll be entertaining as hell, huge amounts of schadenfreude.

[GooniesNeverDie]

Morey is very stubborn.. I feel like he's still going to pull out a pretty good deal


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[Badonkadonk]

I still want no part of Ben. The cost won't be cheap, and if we measure success in terms of how well we do in the playoffs, he's demonstrated that you can effectively gameplan around him.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Gravity is why Ben sucks. Both in relation to himself and the team.

Im not sure how this narrative Ben is going to thrive in transition/PnR ever started.



He was awful and even when factoring in ASTs for both hes still terrible. He turns the ball over too much in ISOs (29th percentile, wow), Hes only avg at finishing at the rim (the only thing he can on drives hah).

Hes a good playmaker but not as good as FVV (hes the left column).



Even defensively, we have a better defender in the role Ben plays, with OG.

Ben struggles against Bigs/SHooters and really thats a large function why he needs to matchup against the highest USG players (the OG role). Whats also surprising is despite that FVV is the better perimeter player. Even in areas hes better than FVV (marginally), Freddy is still in the 90th percentile.



Freddy is even better as the interior defender.



The finally, look at impact stats.



So aside from Anthro stats, there is very little in favor of Simmons. THe thing is we have a better offensive player in FVV, who in his role (because we already have OG), is better defensively for this club, despite the lack of versatility.

I struggle to find the value in Ben Simmons, and these are only the publicly available data, I can only imagine what Khoury has shown them.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

The guys on the athletic pod today started up with the Ben to TO trades again. They want him here because of our player development, cool, but the trades are so bad. The first guy said Fred and GTJ plus picks, they were like hard no from Philly’s side(it’s a no from me), and then they went to Pascal plus plus amd I had to check out. If Philly swapped Ben for Fred they would be immeasurably better. Same with Pascal.

I’m not paying anything for potential on a guy who hasn’t improved in years, like if he needs our development so badly then why would we pay on the front end. Accolades, shmaccolades. Awards are political, he’s not getting back onto an all-d team any time soon and he’s definitely not making an all-nba team.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I am telling you that there are deceptive because your analytics would imply that FVV and Siakam are superior drivers than Simmons..and they are certainly not (focus on the ability). We are not talking about the same basketball if you cant see it. As long as there is a dominant center in there his drives will be limited.

You can focus on ability, but the brain counts and his decision-making isn't as good as Fred or Pascal. That's ability. Even Scottie Barnes shows more savvy on the court in the damned SL than Ben has in years in the league. Where's the upgrade?

He stopped driving in the playoffs, after losing his confidence in his FT%. Other great players have gone through those type of struggles and recovered.

Focus on why he lost confidence and then you'll find your answer. When Siakam's jumper abandoned him against the Celtics, he still went into the paint. Went down swinging. Mark of a champ. If you're alluding to Giannis' struggles at the line, he averages 30. Ben doesn't have that kind of scoring upside.

After hearing VP chairman talking about the new approach (implying positonless basketball) and going out of his way to defend Pascal and drafting another positionless player( over a regular 6'3 player): Trading Pascal would not make sense. FVV for Ben would make sense for both teams.

He vouched for Siakam after the Simmons' trade talks ended. Positionless may mean all the guys are the same size, but I doubt that. I think they want more flexibility in that way, but prefer multi-skill players. With zero shooting ability, Ben clashes with Siakam's unreliable outside shot and then of course Scottie Barnes yet to be developed outside shot. What would we be building?

[vini_vidi_vici]

I am telling you that there are deceptive because your analytics would imply that FVV and Siakam are superior drivers than Simmons..and they are certainly not (focus on the ability). We are not talking about the same basketball if you cant see it. As long as there is a dominant center in there his drives will be limited.

You can focus on ability, but the brain counts and his decision-making isn't as good as Fred or Pascal. That's ability. Even Scottie Barnes shows more savvy on the court in the damned SL than Ben has in years in the league. Where's the upgrade?

He stopped driving in the playoffs, after losing his confidence in his FT%. Other great players have gone through those type of struggles and recovered.

Focus on why he lost confidence and then you'll find your answer. When Siakam's jumper abandoned him against the Celtics, he still went into the paint. Went down swinging. Mark of a champ. If you're alluding to Giannis' struggles at the line, he averages 30. Ben doesn't have that kind of scoring upside.

After hearing VP chairman talking about the new approach (implying positonless basketball) and going out of his way to defend Pascal and drafting another positionless player( over a regular 6'3 player): Trading Pascal would not make sense. FVV for Ben would make sense for both teams.

He vouched for Siakam after the Simmons' trade talks ended. Positionless may mean all the guys are the same size, but I doubt that. I think they want more flexibility in that way, but prefer multi-skill players. With zero shooting ability, Ben clashes with Siakam's unreliable outside shot and then of course Scottie Barnes yet to be developed outside shot. What would we be building?

Its some dumb logic to say, well the "VP chairman" likes positionless basketball, therefore all players must be positionless, but I digress.

[ruckus]

Gravity is why Ben sucks. Both in relation to himself and the team.

Im not sure how this narrative Ben is going to thrive in transition/PnR ever started.



He was awful and even when factoring in ASTs for both hes still terrible. He turns the ball over too much in ISOs (29th percentile, wow), Hes only avg at finishing at the rim (the only thing he can on drives hah).

Hes a good playmaker but not as good as FVV (hes the left column).



Even defensively, we have a better defender in the role Ben plays, with OG.

Ben struggles against Bigs/SHooters and really thats a large function why he needs to matchup against the highest USG players (the OG role). Whats also surprising is despite that FVV is the better perimeter player. Even in areas hes better than FVV (marginally), Freddy is still in the 90th percentile.



Freddy is even better as the interior defender.



The finally, look at impact stats.



So aside from Anthro stats, there is very little in favor of Simmons. THe thing is we have a better offensive player in FVV, who in his role (because we already have OG), is better defensively for this club, despite the lack of versatility.

I struggle to find the value in Ben Simmons, and these are only the publicly available data, I can only imagine what Khoury has shown them.

Mic dropped.

Nice post.

[djsunyc]

Gravity is why Ben sucks. Both in relation to himself and the team.

Im not sure how this narrative Ben is going to thrive in transition/PnR ever started.



He was awful and even when factoring in ASTs for both hes still terrible. He turns the ball over too much in ISOs (29th percentile, wow), Hes only avg at finishing at the rim (the only thing he can on drives hah).

Hes a good playmaker but not as good as FVV (hes the left column).



Even defensively, we have a better defender in the role Ben plays, with OG.

Ben struggles against Bigs/SHooters and really thats a large function why he needs to matchup against the highest USG players (the OG role). Whats also surprising is despite that FVV is the better perimeter player. Even in areas hes better than FVV (marginally), Freddy is still in the 90th percentile.



Freddy is even better as the interior defender.



The finally, look at impact stats.



So aside from Anthro stats, there is very little in favor of Simmons. THe thing is we have a better offensive player in FVV, who in his role (because we already have OG), is better defensively for this club, despite the lack of versatility.

I struggle to find the value in Ben Simmons, and these are only the publicly available data, I can only imagine what Khoury has shown them.

i never want to see fred part of any trade for ben.

[SurgeIblocka]

Lost Lowry, trade our next best shooter in Fred for another player who folds and is a terrible shooter. Some posters have no clue how to build an actual contender. Not to mention the leadership we would lose with Lowry and Fred gone. Ben would be such a great leader showing to bag those tricks on the sidelines.

[goinrogue]

You guys won’t be pleased but I think the offer that ultimately gets a deal done is Fred and OG for Ben. I think Fred is overrated so whatever but parting with OG would be hard. That gives philly a good package I think would beat other teams once philly gives up on the idea of Damian.

[OakleyDokely]

You guys won’t be pleased but I think the offer that ultimately gets a deal done is Fred and OG for Ben. I think Fred is overrated so whatever but parting with OG would be hard. That gives philly a good package I think would beat other teams once philly gives up on the idea of Damian.

OG is a Klutch guy. He's not going to Philly.

Plus, OG is cheaper, a better shooter and is just as a good defensively, if not better because he can defend bigs as well. He shouldn't be moved for Simmons straight up.

[tosi]

He is already whining, huffing and puffing in Philly. You think you isnt going to do that here or worse?

[ash_k]

I am telling you that there are deceptive because your analytics would imply that FVV and Siakam are superior drivers than Simmons..and they are certainly not (focus on the ability). We are not talking about the same basketball if you cant see it. As long as there is a dominant center in there his drives will be limited.

You can focus on ability, but the brain counts and his decision-making isn't as good as Fred or Pascal. That's ability. Even Scottie Barnes shows more savvy on the court in the damned SL than Ben has in years in the league. Where's the upgrade?

He stopped driving in the playoffs, after losing his confidence in his FT%. Other great players have gone through those type of struggles and recovered.

Focus on why he lost confidence and then you'll find your answer. When Siakam's jumper abandoned him against the Celtics, he still went into the paint. Went down swinging. Mark of a champ. If you're alluding to Giannis' struggles at the line, he averages 30. Ben doesn't have that kind of scoring upside.

After hearing VP chairman talking about the new approach (implying positonless basketball) and going out of his way to defend Pascal and drafting another positionless player( over a regular 6'3 player): Trading Pascal would not make sense. FVV for Ben would make sense for both teams.

He vouched for Siakam after the Simmons' trade talks ended. Positionless may mean all the guys are the same size, but I doubt that. I think they want more flexibility in that way, but prefer multi-skill players. With zero shooting ability, Ben clashes with Siakam's unreliable outside shot and then of course Scottie Barnes yet to be developed outside shot. What would we be building?

We would be building a perimeter defensive juggernaut.
Ben Simmons surrounded by 40 3pt% shooters in GTjr and OG. Pascal's spot up shooting was fine pre-shutdown. Precious and Barnes have good forms and have the work ethic thus it is just a matter of time

I will certainly not question a player's "brain count" that can do 14.8ppg|10.2rpg|9.2apg|64.0 FG%|21.6 FT% while containing Westbrook (while struggling with confidence.)

Dont make the mistake focusing on scoring with Ben. Pascal is a scorer, Giannis is a scorer&DPOY and Ben is a facilitator&DPOY.

if Pascal had averaged 14.8ppg|10.2rpg|9.2apg|64.0 FG% against those Celtics, you would have been upset with the low scoring but how upset would you really be looking at the rebounding and assists numbers ?

Again, like my original premise, Ben Simmons epitomizes positionless basketball and as much as we love FVV; he doesn't . That trade would make sense. It is not something I would have necessarily said prior to Vice Chairman's press conference.
Don't get me wrong, I fully trust Fred Van Vleet as our leader and future all-star!
But Fred VanVleet OR the player that is 2 years younger, a foot taller, faster, quicker with the following in his resume
3× NBA All-Star (2019–2021)| All-NBA Third Team (2020)|2nd in DPOY (2021)2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2020, 2021)|NBA steals leader (2020)?
It is not even close to me as long as the package includes Dragic + Boucher + couple of picks (hang up the phone as soon as I hear OG )

[Mak]

You guys won’t be pleased but I think the offer that ultimately gets a deal done is Fred and OG for Ben. I think Fred is overrated so whatever but parting with OG would be hard. That gives philly a good package I think would beat other teams once philly gives up on the idea of Damian.

Meanwhile, the Kings are offering Buddy Heild. Here we are, trying to trade OG and Fred.

[Los_29]

Some of you are wildly overrating Ben Simmons. This guy was his team's 4th/5th option in the playoffs and was STILL unplayable. He's a great regular season player but when the games start to matter he is nowhere to be found.

I'd be absolutely shocked if Masai traded FVV for Ben Simmons. That would not make us a better team and we'd take on a horrendous contract in exchange for one of the best value contracts in the league.

And we won't even get into the difference in intangibles between the two.

I'm all for trading for Simmons if the price is right. But the price isn't right if we have to trade any of our core players. I'd trade draft picks and some of our supporting pieces for Simmons but I absolutely wouldn't trade any of our core pieces and I don't think the FO will either. In fact, if they were then this deal would've been done already. Morey knows what's out there and it ain't pretty.

[polo007]

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