Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Wolveswin]

I think people are focusing on getting win-now pieces in this deal, I don’t think that’s 100% their focus. They would like some win-now pieces but also assets to swap for a star when one becomes available.

If Rosas offered something like Beverley, Beasley, 3 unprotected FRPs, 3 unprotected swaps, Morey would almost have to accept. Bev/Beasley is enough to keep Philly afloat while Morey uses that draft currency to bolster the roster later in the season.

That said, I would not offer that as a Wolves fan.

I would think the Wolves would have to seriously consider that move. They have already committed quite a bit toward KAT, but they have yet to go all in on the guy. I understand the reluctance, but if you are going to commit, then commit. This does that. A lineup of Simmons-DLo-Ant-McDaniels-KAT is incredibly interesting and everyone is within the age range of each other to grow. A follow up trade to shore up the last starting spot would be something I would be considering, but it’s not necessary for year one. McDaniels could blossom with these guys. I see this team as a 6 seed right away and there is a really high ceiling there.

The issue is with the 76ers. I think the value is probably fine for them (although I think Simmons returns a little less). It’s the return that makes it uninspiring. Could we see that package get moved to another team for a fitting player?

The Wolves package is better than most give it credit.

The Picks: even with Simmons, in the West, Wolves aren’t even a top 5 team. The picks should be at worst 15-18, with a chance the new look Wolves don’t jive and 76ers get a lotto 1st (maybe multiple). Maybe the Kings and Spurs offer the same quality firsts, but Wolves do for sure.

The Swaps: any swaps offered in the deal should convey. Philly could get a 4-15 slot improvement — even without Simmons (more so if Dame or Beal acquired later).

The Players: Beasley value is down now, but a great acquire low candidate, and watch his value rise sky high on Philly roster.

The rest of players are expiring-useful-vets. They can be used now or in the future for the win-now player of Philly’s choice.

[Wigginstime]

Jamal Murray and yes. Otherwise no thanks.

Murray straight up?

Well, he’s out all year, right? So it would be essentially wasting a season. No, it would require more.

I am personally fine with taking a step back to take two forward. So youth, draft picks, Embiid elective surgery… I’m good with all of that.

However the Sixers and Morey are clearly not or a deal would’ve been done.

Recent reports indicate Murray is way ahead of schedule with rehab and are indicating a potential return in November/December timeline. Then again i doubt Philly wants to wait until December to make a trade. Denver isn't going to want to pay significantly more for a trade prior to Murrays return. Then again if Murray comes back at 100% i'm not sure Denver would be interested in this trade.

The only way I see this trade gathering any interest from Denver is if MPJ plays like a superstar for the first 3 months and Denver decides he is the 2nd option and the need more defense to make up for MPJ/Jokic.

[kalenclayton]

I think people are focusing on getting win-now pieces in this deal, I don’t think that’s 100% their focus. They would like some win-now pieces but also assets to swap for a star when one becomes available.

If Rosas offered something like Beverley, Beasley, 3 unprotected FRPs, 3 unprotected swaps, Morey would almost have to accept. Bev/Beasley is enough to keep Philly afloat while Morey uses that draft currency to bolster the roster later in the season.

That said, I would not offer that as a Wolves fan.

I would think the Wolves would have to seriously consider that move. They have already committed quite a bit toward KAT, but they have yet to go all in on the guy. I understand the reluctance, but if you are going to commit, then commit. This does that. A lineup of Simmons-DLo-Ant-McDaniels-KAT is incredibly interesting and everyone is within the age range of each other to grow. A follow up trade to shore up the last starting spot would be something I would be considering, but it’s not necessary for year one. McDaniels could blossom with these guys. I see this team as a 6 seed right away and there is a really high ceiling there.

The issue is with the 76ers. I think the value is probably fine for them (although I think Simmons returns a little less). It’s the return that makes it uninspiring. Could we see that package get moved to another team for a fitting player?

The Wolves package is better than most give it credit.

The Picks: even with Simmons, in the West, Wolves aren’t even a top 5 team. The picks should be at worst 15-18, with a chance the new look Wolves don’t jive and 76ers get a lotto 1st (maybe multiple). Maybe the Kings and Spurs offer the same quality firsts, but Wolves do for sure.

The Swaps: any swaps offered in the deal should convey. Philly could get a 4-15 slot improvement — even without Simmons (more so if Dame or Beal acquired later).

The Players: Beasley value is down now, but a great acquire low candidate, and watch his value rise sky high on Philly roster.

The rest of players are expiring-useful-vets. They can be used now or in the future for the win-now player of Philly’s choice.

I definitely agree that the Wolves’ package isn’t getting enough credit. The draft compensation is highly volatile and it’s risky, but it could turn out great for the 6ers if they take it. The reason why I said the package was uninspiring for the 6ers was because of their roster construction and how they should be winning with Embiid. A player should be coming back to the 6ers in exchange for Simmons. Not picks. I think this is where a 3rd team comes in and takes MIN’s package and sends their high value player to PHI. The issue I’m having is finding the team and the player.

[jpatrick]

I would think the Wolves would have to seriously consider that move. They have already committed quite a bit toward KAT, but they have yet to go all in on the guy. I understand the reluctance, but if you are going to commit, then commit. This does that. A lineup of Simmons-DLo-Ant-McDaniels-KAT is incredibly interesting and everyone is within the age range of each other to grow. A follow up trade to shore up the last starting spot would be something I would be considering, but it’s not necessary for year one. McDaniels could blossom with these guys. I see this team as a 6 seed right away and there is a really high ceiling there.

The issue is with the 76ers. I think the value is probably fine for them (although I think Simmons returns a little less). It’s the return that makes it uninspiring. Could we see that package get moved to another team for a fitting player?

The Wolves package is better than most give it credit.

The Picks: even with Simmons, in the West, Wolves aren’t even a top 5 team. The picks should be at worst 15-18, with a chance the new look Wolves don’t jive and 76ers get a lotto 1st (maybe multiple). Maybe the Kings and Spurs offer the same quality firsts, but Wolves do for sure.

The Swaps: any swaps offered in the deal should convey. Philly could get a 4-15 slot improvement — even without Simmons (more so if Dame or Beal acquired later).

The Players: Beasley value is down now, but a great acquire low candidate, and watch his value rise sky high on Philly roster.

The rest of players are expiring-useful-vets. They can be used now or in the future for the win-now player of Philly’s choice.

I definitely agree that the Wolves’ package isn’t getting enough credit. The draft compensation is highly volatile and it’s risky, but it could turn out great for the 6ers if they take it. The reason why I said the package was uninspiring for the 6ers was because of their roster construction and how they should be winning with Embiid. A player should be coming back to the 6ers in exchange for Simmons. Not picks. I think this is where a 3rd team comes in and takes MIN’s package and sends their high value player to PHI. The issue I’m having is finding the team and the player.

There isn’t a star available right now. That’s why picks are important to Morey, they are currency that can be flipped at anytime when one becomes available. In a rebuild trade, teams generally prefer picks to even young players (like the warriors packages).

I do agree that maybe it’s a three team where some of that draft compensation gets flipped now for a Brogdon, Dejounte Murray, etc, I’m just not even sure any of those guys are available.

[NebWolvesFan]

The Wolves package is better than most give it credit.

The Picks: even with Simmons, in the West, Wolves aren’t even a top 5 team. The picks should be at worst 15-18, with a chance the new look Wolves don’t jive and 76ers get a lotto 1st (maybe multiple). Maybe the Kings and Spurs offer the same quality firsts, but Wolves do for sure.

The Swaps: any swaps offered in the deal should convey. Philly could get a 4-15 slot improvement — even without Simmons (more so if Dame or Beal acquired later).

The Players: Beasley value is down now, but a great acquire low candidate, and watch his value rise sky high on Philly roster.

The rest of players are expiring-useful-vets. They can be used now or in the future for the win-now player of Philly’s choice.

I definitely agree that the Wolves’ package isn’t getting enough credit. The draft compensation is highly volatile and it’s risky, but it could turn out great for the 6ers if they take it. The reason why I said the package was uninspiring for the 6ers was because of their roster construction and how they should be winning with Embiid. A player should be coming back to the 6ers in exchange for Simmons. Not picks. I think this is where a 3rd team comes in and takes MIN’s package and sends their high value player to PHI. The issue I’m having is finding the team and the player.

There isn’t a star available right now. That’s why picks are important to Morey, they are currency that can be flipped at anytime when one becomes available. In a rebuild trade, teams generally prefer picks to even young players (like the warriors packages).

I do agree that maybe it’s a three team where some of that draft compensation gets flipped now for a Brogdon, Dejounte Murray, etc, I’m just not even sure any of those guys are available.

Of the teams in the Simmons sweepstakes, Minnesota probably does win the - we offer the best return for a 2022 first round pick - debate. That being said I think it's highly unlikely Minnesota offers anything more than a 2022 unprotected first and maybe a 2023 swap.

Rosas is not exactly on firm ground with two rough seasons and new owners. There's a decent chance he's fired next summer if next year goes south. That being said, I highly doubt Taylor, Marc and Arod will let him trade first round picks out into the future. If he's fired, it will be tough to land a new POBO with no first round picks, no cap space and stars who can't seem to make the playoffs. No one of note will take the job.

I could easily see Rosas offering multiple first round picks and Taylor vetoing the trade.

[kuclas]

Hield would actually be good in Philly

His two rough years in Sacramento have come from Loser Walton insisting he create his own shot

Although with Maxey, not seeing the need for a SG

Hield and Curry cannot be on the same floor at the same time. That's a big problem. Curry is 8 million a year. Hield is 20 million a year.

People don't get it. Sixers still need a primary ball handler once Simmons is gone. Sure they can possibly live without his elite defense. But you just can't slot a hield in to replace Simmons.

It's a junk offer.

Teams are just seeing how low they can go. Simmons can sit on the bench and Sixers will at worst be a 5 seed, at best a 3 seed. 2nd round exit again with or without Simmons.

I wouldn’t say fox/Hield for Simmons/maxey is junk

Sacramento isn’t willing to offer Haliburton or fox at this time. These teams are just going as low as they can to get Simmons. The Lastest offers seem to just be Bagley and Hield Plus picks.

[Wolveswin]

The Wolves package is better than most give it credit.

The Picks: even with Simmons, in the West, Wolves aren’t even a top 5 team. The picks should be at worst 15-18, with a chance the new look Wolves don’t jive and 76ers get a lotto 1st (maybe multiple). Maybe the Kings and Spurs offer the same quality firsts, but Wolves do for sure.

The Swaps: any swaps offered in the deal should convey. Philly could get a 4-15 slot improvement — even without Simmons (more so if Dame or Beal acquired later).

The Players: Beasley value is down now, but a great acquire low candidate, and watch his value rise sky high on Philly roster.

The rest of players are expiring-useful-vets. They can be used now or in the future for the win-now player of Philly’s choice.

I definitely agree that the Wolves’ package isn’t getting enough credit. The draft compensation is highly volatile and it’s risky, but it could turn out great for the 6ers if they take it. The reason why I said the package was uninspiring for the 6ers was because of their roster construction and how they should be winning with Embiid. A player should be coming back to the 6ers in exchange for Simmons. Not picks. I think this is where a 3rd team comes in and takes MIN’s package and sends their high value player to PHI. The issue I’m having is finding the team and the player.

There isn’t a star available right now. That’s why picks are important to Morey, they are currency that can be flipped at anytime when one becomes available. In a rebuild trade, teams generally prefer picks to even young players (like the warriors packages).

I do agree that maybe it’s a three team where some of that draft compensation gets flipped now for a Brogdon, Dejounte Murray, etc, I’m just not even sure any of those guys are available.

And when 76ers acquire the Wolves 1st swaps, then use them in trade, receiving 3rd team will get “best 2” swap rights — meaning 76ers to Wolves and Wolves to third team. Really good trade sweetener.

[babyjax13]

I think Philly is going to be choosing between two packages that aren't great, but the players fit well enough.

1. Portland:
CJ McCollum + Robert Covington
Portland really does not have picks they can trade. Philly would need to include some salary to balance.

2. Minnesota:
Malik Beasley + Taurean Prince + Jaden McDaniels + 2022 MIN 1st

His value has tanked, Philly has no leverage, and Simmons fits great on a few rosters, but on others he just doesn't.

[Sportfan73]

Hield and Curry cannot be on the same floor at the same time. That's a big problem. Curry is 8 million a year. Hield is 20 million a year.

People don't get it. Sixers still need a primary ball handler once Simmons is gone. Sure they can possibly live without his elite defense. But you just can't slot a hield in to replace Simmons.

It's a junk offer.

Teams are just seeing how low they can go. Simmons can sit on the bench and Sixers will at worst be a 5 seed, at best a 3 seed. 2nd round exit again with or without Simmons.

I wouldn’t say fox/Hield for Simmons/maxey is junk

Sacramento isn’t willing to offer Haliburton or fox at this time. These teams are just going as low as they can to get Simmons. The Lastest offers seem to just be Bagley and Hield Plus picks.

One reporter saying that is just like us saying we will only trade Ben for an all star and 4 firsts. And the report said unlikely, not completely out of the question

[Wolveswin]

I definitely agree that the Wolves’ package isn’t getting enough credit. The draft compensation is highly volatile and it’s risky, but it could turn out great for the 6ers if they take it. The reason why I said the package was uninspiring for the 6ers was because of their roster construction and how they should be winning with Embiid. A player should be coming back to the 6ers in exchange for Simmons. Not picks. I think this is where a 3rd team comes in and takes MIN’s package and sends their high value player to PHI. The issue I’m having is finding the team and the player.

There isn’t a star available right now. That’s why picks are important to Morey, they are currency that can be flipped at anytime when one becomes available. In a rebuild trade, teams generally prefer picks to even young players (like the warriors packages).

I do agree that maybe it’s a three team where some of that draft compensation gets flipped now for a Brogdon, Dejounte Murray, etc, I’m just not even sure any of those guys are available.

Of the teams in the Simmons sweepstakes, Minnesota probably does win the - we offer the best return for a 2022 first round pick - debate. That being said I think it's highly unlikely Minnesota offers anything more than a 2022 unprotected first and maybe a 2023 swap.

Rosas is not exactly on firm ground with two rough seasons and new owners. There's a decent chance he's fired next summer if next year goes south. That being said, I highly doubt Taylor, Marc and Arod will let him trade first round picks out into the future. If he's fired, it will be tough to land a new POBO with no first round picks, no cap space and stars who can't seem to make the playoffs. No one of note will take the job.

I could easily see Rosas offering multiple first round picks and Taylor vetoing the trade.

I see truth in that argument. But Rosas side of the pitch is we don’t “need” late to real late 1st round picks…we have 4 pillars, 3 with big contracts and Edwards will need to get paid soon enough. 2nd round draft picks will be their friends (in this scenario).

[Wolveswin]

I think Philly is going to be choosing between two packages that aren't great, but the players fit well enough.

1. Portland:
CJ McCollum + Robert Covington
Portland really does not have picks they can trade. Philly would need to include some salary to balance.

2. Minnesota:
Malik Beasley + Taurean Prince + Jaden McDaniels + 2022 MIN 1st

His value has tanked, Philly has no leverage, and Simmons fits great on a few rosters, but on others he just doesn't.

Wolves’ offer wins all day. They also have the ability to send McDaniels + 1st(s) to 3rd team for a player like Grant, Wood, or ???? of 76ers choosing. Blazers don’t have that expiring filler and as you said their 1sts are little more tied up.

[babyjax13]

I think Philly is going to be choosing between two packages that aren't great, but the players fit well enough.

1. Portland:
CJ McCollum + Robert Covington
Portland really does not have picks they can trade. Philly would need to include some salary to balance.

2. Minnesota:
Malik Beasley + Taurean Prince + Jaden McDaniels + 2022 MIN 1st

His value has tanked, Philly has no leverage, and Simmons fits great on a few rosters, but on others he just doesn't.

Wolves’ offer wins all day. They also have the ability to send McDaniels + 1st(s) to 3rd team for a player like Grant, Wood, or ???? of 76ers choosing. Blazers don’t have that expiring filler and as you said their 1sts are little more tied up.

I like the idea of adding Wood in - lots of irony there. If Philly could get Grant that'd be great, but I just don't think Detroit is trading him.

[kuclas]

I think Philly is going to be choosing between two packages that aren't great, but the players fit well enough.

1. Portland:
CJ McCollum + Robert Covington
Portland really does not have picks they can trade. Philly would need to include some salary to balance.

2. Minnesota:
Malik Beasley + Taurean Prince + Jaden McDaniels + 2022 MIN 1st

His value has tanked, Philly has no leverage, and Simmons fits great on a few rosters, but on others he just doesn't.

Wolves’ offer wins all day. They also have the ability to send McDaniels + 1st(s) to 3rd team for a player like Grant, Wood, or ???? of 76ers choosing. Blazers don’t have that expiring filler and as you said their 1sts are little more tied up.

Beasley prince McDaniel and pick is not going to do it either. Prince and McDaniel are more like fillers and may not even crack the 10 man Sixers rotation.

[Sactowndog]

Hield and Curry cannot be on the same floor at the same time. That's a big problem. Curry is 8 million a year. Hield is 20 million a year.

People don't get it. Sixers still need a primary ball handler once Simmons is gone. Sure they can possibly live without his elite defense. But you just can't slot a hield in to replace Simmons.

It's a junk offer.

Teams are just seeing how low they can go. Simmons can sit on the bench and Sixers will at worst be a 5 seed, at best a 3 seed. 2nd round exit again with or without Simmons.

I wouldn’t say fox/Hield for Simmons/maxey is junk

Sacramento isn’t willing to offer Haliburton or fox at this time. These teams are just going as low as they can to get Simmons. The Lastest offers seem to just be Bagley and Hield Plus picks.

I’m not sure what Sac is thinking either to be honest. The Fox, Mitchell, Holmes, Simmons line-up is virtually unplayable in the modern NBA. None of them are plus 3 point shooters and only Holmes has a high free throw percentage.

If you are going to add Ben, one of Fox or Mitchell has to be included and you will want to keep Buddy who becomes more valuable.

[babyjax13]

I think Philly is going to be choosing between two packages that aren't great, but the players fit well enough.

1. Portland:
CJ McCollum + Robert Covington
Portland really does not have picks they can trade. Philly would need to include some salary to balance.

2. Minnesota:
Malik Beasley + Taurean Prince + Jaden McDaniels + 2022 MIN 1st

His value has tanked, Philly has no leverage, and Simmons fits great on a few rosters, but on others he just doesn't.

Wolves’ offer wins all day. They also have the ability to send McDaniels + 1st(s) to 3rd team for a player like Grant, Wood, or ???? of 76ers choosing. Blazers don’t have that expiring filler and as you said their 1sts are little more tied up.

Beasley prince McDaniel and pick is not going to do it either. Prince and McDaniel are more like fillers and may not even crack the 10 man Sixers rotation.

Well that would be too bad for Philly. What they thought/hoped would be available for Simmons clearly is not, or he would have been moved already. I do like the modification by Wolveswin:

Philly trades: Ben Simmons
Philly receives: Malik Beasley, Christian Wood
Get two 20ppg players that were on bad teams. As long as one isn't vaporware that is an okay return, even if the fit is not perfect with Wood.

Houston trades: Christian Wood
Houston receives: Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, 2022 MIN 1st
Turn Wood into assets.

Minnesota trades: Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Jaden McDaniels, 2022 1st
Minnesota receives: Ben Simmons
Simmons is a nice fit here, has personal connections, etc.

[Wolveswin]

What about Hawks as 3rd team?

A) should have no desire for Simmons.
B) should like idea of making 76ers “weaker” in East.

Hawks Trade:
Gallinari (or Bogdan?) + Huerter
FOR
Maxey + Beasley

Hawks do a Maxey (2 extra rookie years) for Huerter swap and really could like Beasley shooting next to Young.

76ers Trade:
Simmons + Maxey + Joe
FOR
Gallinari + Beverley (or Prince) + Huerter + Multiple Wolves 1sts & Swaps

76ers get a forward instead of another SG in Beasley, swap Maxey for a SG/SF plus picks.

Wolves Trade:
Beasley + Beverley (or Prince) + Picks Package
FOR
Simmons + Joe

[Sportfan73]

I wouldn’t say fox/Hield for Simmons/maxey is junk

Sacramento isn’t willing to offer Haliburton or fox at this time. These teams are just going as low as they can to get Simmons. The Lastest offers seem to just be Bagley and Hield Plus picks.

I’m not sure what Sac is thinking either to be honest. The Fox, Mitchell, Holmes, Simmons line-up is virtually unplayable in the modern NBA. None of them are plus 3 point shooters and only Holmes has a high free throw percentage.

If you are going to add Ben, one of Fox or Mitchell has to be included and you will want to keep Buddy who becomes more valuable.

Ben for Fox makes way to much sense. I understand if Sac feels they need something added to it just for looks wise from the outside.
Hali
Buddy
Barnes
Simmons
Holmes

Is a hell of a place to start though. With Mitchell coming off the bench

[Sportfan73]

What about Hawks as 3rd team?

A) should have no desire for Simmons.
B) should like idea of making 76ers “weaker” in East.

Hawks Trade:
Gallinari (or Bogdan?) + Huerter
FOR
Maxey + Beasley

Hawks do a Maxey (2 extra rookie years) for Huerter swap and really could like Beasley shooting next to Young.

76ers Trade:
Simmons + Maxey + Joe
FOR
Gallinari + Beverley (or Prince) + Huerter + Multiple Wolves 1sts & Swaps

76ers get a forward instead of another SG in Beasley, swap Maxey for a SG/SF plus picks.

Wolves Trade:
Beasley + Beverley (or Prince) + Picks Package
FOR
Simmons + Joe

The Maxey stuff was already proved to be not correct. The only realistic guy I could see him involved with besides obvious ones is like Fox.

[zimpy27]

Wolves’ offer wins all day. They also have the ability to send McDaniels + 1st(s) to 3rd team for a player like Grant, Wood, or ???? of 76ers choosing. Blazers don’t have that expiring filler and as you said their 1sts are little more tied up.

Beasley prince McDaniel and pick is not going to do it either. Prince and McDaniel are more like fillers and may not even crack the 10 man Sixers rotation.

Well that would be too bad for Philly. What they thought/hoped would be available for Simmons clearly is not, or he would have been moved already. I do like the modification by Wolveswin:

Philly trades: Ben Simmons
Philly receives: Malik Beasley, Christian Wood
Get two 20ppg players that were on bad teams. As long as one isn't vaporware that is an okay return, even if the fit is not perfect with Wood.

Houston trades: Christian Wood
Houston receives: Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, 2022 MIN 1st
Turn Wood into assets.

Minnesota trades: Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Jaden McDaniels, 2022 1st
Minnesota receives: Ben Simmons
Simmons is a nice fit here, has personal connections, etc.

You have to keep in mind that Philly ideally needs a playmaking and defensive PG or SG or SF back for Simmons so that Curry can start. The player needs to add to what this group lacks Curry, Green/Thybulle, Harris, Embiid

They at least need a playmaker. If they get a player like McCollum then Curry won't start, but that's workable. Ideally the non-defensive playmaker would be an SF.

[Helsbyte]

I am calling Brogdon to Philly in some sorta trade scenario. I am not saying Simmons will go to Indy just that Indy will be part of the trade sending Brogdon to Philly. We already know Indy offered Brogdon and a first and it was declined. If that is still on the table Brogdon fills what Philly needs. scoring, leadership, and defense.