Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[GutUNC]

A lot of people have been saying the Sixers should call Simmons' bluff and not trade him.

The thing is, the Sixers already lost. It's over. There is no reasonable circumstance Simmons' value rises at this point.

First of all, all GMs in the league who have soured on Simmons know with him it's about the playoffs, not the regular season. They're going to want to see him dominate a playoff series to change their opinion on him. So keeping him til the deadline makes that impossible.

But do people really think going into the season with a pouty, disgruntled Ben Simmons is going to raise his value? The first home game, the fans are going to rain boos down on him in player introductions. The odds that he plays better after having shown how mentally fragile he is already are slim. There's a chance he could be mopey and pouting all season. And if he has a blowup with Doc Rivers on the sidelines, forget it.

Absolute best case scenario(least likely): he comes in motivated to prove doubters wrong, but that still won't ease GMs minds around the league as the regular season has never been the issue with Simmons.

Baseline: he comes into the season and plays like he normally does, and his value doesn't change.

Worst case scenario: he comes into the season unmotivated and unhappy, his play declines, things get contentious, and then instead of getting a guy like McCollum, his value drops even more and you're stuck having to take back a guy like Wiggins.

I just can't see a realistic scenario they wait and get what they want for him.

If he does that, his value will go up from where it currently sits.

[SixersSince82]

A lot of people have been saying the Sixers should call Simmons' bluff and not trade him.

The thing is, the Sixers already lost. It's over. There is no reasonable circumstance Simmons' value rises at this point.

There are 2 parts to this, though. Ben Simmons value, which like you suggest probably wont improve (though I think you can argue otherwise) But the second part is that other teams situations absolutely could change. The Kings, T-wolves, Blazers or another squad could become more desperate if their start of the season doesn't go as they hope.

That wouldn't technically "raise" Simmons value but the net effect would be the same as one of those squads becomes more desperate.

But I don't see how a team getting desperate would make them more willing to trade their best players for Ben Simmons. How does that help their situations in that scenario?

I guess Im seeing it more like "best trade packages" not "Best players."

I don't think Sacramento should or would trade Fox for Ben but I do think they should include Haliburton to pair Ben and Fox. Ben & Fox is better than Fox and Haliburton.

I don't think the Twolves would trade Kat, their best player, but the should trade Anthony Edwards for him. Maybe it's less straight forward with Edwards but for the next 2 seasons at least, Ben, Kat & D'Lo is better than Kat, DLo & Edwards.
Edwards looks like the real deal but with only 1/2 a season of high caliber play under his belt he's still mostly just potential and the Wolves have to balance that with Kat potentially deciding he wants out if Edwards growth stalls or takes too long.

The Wolves have missed the playoffs for 16 outta the last 17 seasons and the Kings haven't made the playoffs in 16 years, lol. These teams gotta be somewhat desperate already. If 2021-22 starts off poorly you'd think these team would make a serious move to change course.

[Sportfan73]

I want Mitchell and Buddy for Ben

Twolves I want Ant Man ...

Portland: Lilliard

Warriors : Wiggins , Kuminga and shotcreator that they don't have.

Fox or bust from Sac

[stormi]

I want Mitchell and Buddy for Ben

Twolves I want Ant Man ...

Portland: Lilliard

Warriors : Wiggins , Kuminga and shotcreator that they don't have.

Fox or bust from Sac

I'd take a Hali package but I'd need at least two firsts attached.

Fox one for one.

No other deal to be had.

[FireMorey]

A lot of people have been saying the Sixers should call Simmons' bluff and not trade him.

The thing is, the Sixers already lost. It's over. There is no reasonable circumstance Simmons' value rises at this point.

First of all, all GMs in the league who have soured on Simmons know with him it's about the playoffs, not the regular season. They're going to want to see him dominate a playoff series to change their opinion on him. So keeping him til the deadline makes that impossible.

But do people really think going into the season with a pouty, disgruntled Ben Simmons is going to raise his value? The first home game, the fans are going to rain boos down on him in player introductions. The odds that he plays better after having shown how mentally fragile he is already are slim. There's a chance he could be mopey and pouting all season. And if he has a blowup with Doc Rivers on the sidelines, forget it.

Absolute best case scenario(least likely): he comes in motivated to prove doubters wrong, but that still won't ease GMs minds around the league as the regular season has never been the issue with Simmons.

Baseline: he comes into the season and plays like he normally does, and his value doesn't change.

Worst case scenario: he comes into the season unmotivated and unhappy, his play declines, things get contentious, and then instead of getting a guy like McCollum, his value drops even more and you're stuck having to take back a guy like Wiggins.

I just can't see a realistic scenario they wait and get what they want for him.

If he does that, his value will go up from where it currently sits.

How do you figure that?

[Sportfan73]

I want Mitchell and Buddy for Ben

Twolves I want Ant Man ...

Portland: Lilliard

Warriors : Wiggins , Kuminga and shotcreator that they don't have.

Fox or bust from Sac

I'd take a Hali package but I'd need at least two firsts attached.

Fox one for one.

No other deal to be had.

I agree I would too! But I just don’t see Hali+ as a realistic offer from them.

[Negrodamus]

I want Mitchell and Buddy for Ben

Twolves I want Ant Man ...

Portland: Lilliard

Warriors : Wiggins , Kuminga and shotcreator that they don't have.

Poole from the Warriors flashed a lot at times as a shot creator.

Poole for Simmons. Who says no?

[stormi]

Fox or bust from Sac

I'd take a Hali package but I'd need at least two firsts attached.

Fox one for one.

No other deal to be had.

I agree I would too! But I just don’t see Hali+ as a realistic offer from them.

I guess it does call into the validity of that Hawks insider. I'm choosing to believe it, just because it was written way too elaborately and I did vetting on the source. They have a forum and then a thread dedicated to that specific user who seems pretty ITK and respected amongst the other posters there. They even mentioned moving his 'content' to a private section after the long-winded post leaked.

It said Hali+Barnes+2022 frp was still sitting on the table, after the initial draft night offer being Hali+Barnes+#9. Assuming that to be true, I'd do the deal with the addition of one more first. If it's not, then this is all moot.

[Sportfan73]

I'd take a Hali package but I'd need at least two firsts attached.

Fox one for one.

No other deal to be had.

I agree I would too! But I just don’t see Hali+ as a realistic offer from them.

I guess it does call into the validity of that Hawks insider. I'm choosing to believe it, just because it was written way too elaborately and I did backtracking on the source. They have a forum and then a thread dedicated to that specific user who seems pretty ITK and respected amongst the other posters there. They even mentioned moving his 'content' to a private section after the long-winded post leaked.

It said Hali+Barnes+2022 frp was still sitting on the table, after the initial draft night offer being Hali+Barnes+#9. Assuming that to be true, I'd do the deal with the addition of one more first. If it's not, then this is all moot.

Yeah I think I would do that with a 25 first as well so we have full flexibility with picks again. I’ve really warmed up to just swapping Ben with Fox and letting he and Jojo grow together for years to come

[FireMorey]

There are 2 parts to this, though. Ben Simmons value, which like you suggest probably wont improve (though I think you can argue otherwise) But the second part is that other teams situations absolutely could change. The Kings, T-wolves, Blazers or another squad could become more desperate if their start of the season doesn't go as they hope.

That wouldn't technically "raise" Simmons value but the net effect would be the same as one of those squads becomes more desperate.

But I don't see how a team getting desperate would make them more willing to trade their best players for Ben Simmons. How does that help their situations in that scenario?

I guess Im seeing it more like "best trade packages" not "Best players."

I don't think Sacramento should or would trade Fox for Ben but I do think they should include Haliburton to pair Ben and Fox. Ben & Fox is better than Fox and Haliburton.

I don't think the Twolves would trade Kat, their best player, but the should trade Anthony Edwards for him. Maybe it's less straight forward with Edwards but for the next 2 seasons at least, Ben, Kat & D'Lo is better than Kat, DLo & Edwards.
Edwards looks like the real deal but with only 1/2 a season of high caliber play under his belt he's still mostly just potential and the Wolves have to balance that with Kat potentially deciding he wants out if Edwards growth stalls or takes too long.

The Wolves have missed the playoffs for 16 outta the last 17 seasons and the Kings haven't made the playoffs in 16 years, lol. These teams gotta be somewhat desperate already. If 2021-22 starts off poorly you'd think these team would make a serious move to change course.

I just don't know what about Ben Simmons makes him the guy you go all in for when you get desperate.

[GWPhilly34]

But I don't see how a team getting desperate would make them more willing to trade their best players for Ben Simmons. How does that help their situations in that scenario?

I guess Im seeing it more like "best trade packages" not "Best players."

I don't think Sacramento should or would trade Fox for Ben but I do think they should include Haliburton to pair Ben and Fox. Ben & Fox is better than Fox and Haliburton.

I don't think the Twolves would trade Kat, their best player, but the should trade Anthony Edwards for him. Maybe it's less straight forward with Edwards but for the next 2 seasons at least, Ben, Kat & D'Lo is better than Kat, DLo & Edwards.
Edwards looks like the real deal but with only 1/2 a season of high caliber play under his belt he's still mostly just potential and the Wolves have to balance that with Kat potentially deciding he wants out if Edwards growth stalls or takes too long.

The Wolves have missed the playoffs for 16 outta the last 17 seasons and the Kings haven't made the playoffs in 16 years, lol. These teams gotta be somewhat desperate already. If 2021-22 starts off poorly you'd think these team would make a serious move to change course.

I just don't know what about Ben Simmons makes him the guy you go all in for when you get desperate.

For a lot of teams this is a business. Having a big name for 4 years fills seats and makes money. Sounds like the perfect place for Ben. So much talent, what a waste.

[Black Mage]

Dumas having to backpedal on his Maxey tweet:

Read on Twitter

[Sportfan73]

I guess Im seeing it more like "best trade packages" not "Best players."

I don't think Sacramento should or would trade Fox for Ben but I do think they should include Haliburton to pair Ben and Fox. Ben & Fox is better than Fox and Haliburton.

I don't think the Twolves would trade Kat, their best player, but the should trade Anthony Edwards for him. Maybe it's less straight forward with Edwards but for the next 2 seasons at least, Ben, Kat & D'Lo is better than Kat, DLo & Edwards.
Edwards looks like the real deal but with only 1/2 a season of high caliber play under his belt he's still mostly just potential and the Wolves have to balance that with Kat potentially deciding he wants out if Edwards growth stalls or takes too long.

The Wolves have missed the playoffs for 16 outta the last 17 seasons and the Kings haven't made the playoffs in 16 years, lol. These teams gotta be somewhat desperate already. If 2021-22 starts off poorly you'd think these team would make a serious move to change course.

I just don't know what about Ben Simmons makes him the guy you go all in for when you get desperate.

For a lot of teams this is a business. Having a big name for 4 years fills seats and makes money. Sounds like the perfect place for Ben. So much talent, what a waste.

Sac makes a ton of sense for that reason

[Chocolate or Thunder?]

Here’s my frustration with Ben. We the fans get blamed for a situation he created. All we do in criticizing players is hold u accountable to be the best you can possibly be including your effort.

No one argues about his effort. He provides a lot of that. But the hole in his game has now CLEARLY hurt the team. Three playoff series where he and Jo are healthy and we are eliminated from the 2nd round.

So now the issue is Clear. We don’t even need outside help if he just shot more. But no. Instead he wants to bail and national media are blaming the fans. For what?

You are not giving it your all Ben and the fans know it. This is why AI will always be beloved because despite his flaws he never cheated us. Barkley will never be hated because he never cheated us. Hell a TJ McConnel will be cheered because he gave us everything he had and he grew as a player.

So when we see you have a ceiling you haven’t reached and you are deliberately not doing what’s needed then yes the fans will do what family, agents, coaches and friends will not. We hold you accountable.

And what do you do? You do a Carson Wentz and bail. This is what I mean with bitchazzness.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

If it's a no on Haliburton and Fox, then it HAS to be Mitchell for starters along with Hield. I mean HAS TO BE! They can't just have it their way. Ben Simmons is a lot of things, but he's far and away a better player than Buddy Hield. Sacramento has to give back either Fox straight across, Haliburton/Hield, or Mitchell, Bagley, Hield. I think that's fair.

[Sportfan73]

If it's a no on Haliburton and Fox, then it HAS to be Mitchell for starters along with Hield. I mean HAS TO BE! They can't just have it their way. Ben Simmons is a lot of things, but he's far and away a better player than Buddy Hield. Sacramento has to give back either Fox straight across, Haliburton/Hield, or Mitchell, Bagley, Hield. I think that's fair.

Would just way rather it be Fox. I’d add a little to Ben to get it done at this point

[KramerDSP]

Dumas having to backpedal on his Maxey tweet:

Read on Twitter

Dumas is a clown. He’s dead to me.

[PhillyNj]

I want Mitchell and Buddy for Ben

Twolves I want Ant Man ...

Portland: Lilliard

Warriors : Wiggins , Kuminga and shotcreator that they don't have.

Poole from the Warriors flashed a lot at times as a shot creator.

Poole for Simmons. Who says no?

Who’s Poole?

[TYO23]

Poole from the Warriors flashed a lot at times as a shot creator.

Poole for Simmons. Who says no?

Who’s Poole?

Jordan Poole. Combo guard from Michigan.

Watch on YouTube

[Negrodamus]

I think the top trade I'd try to pull off is Ben for Dejounte Murray, Devin Vassell, and Doug McDermott (or Thad Young or Aminu + someone else). No picks. Murray covers long PG requirement, Vassell can be a longterm prospect.

Pop can try to turn Ben into LeBron.

One thing we don't need to a glut at the guard position. We already signed on for Green to be here for 2 more years, Curry's here for 2 also. We're likely going to try to hand a larger perimeter scoring load to Maxey. Then we also have Shake who gets relevant minutes.

I'd be very excited to have a depth chart of:

Murray/Maxey
Maxey/Curry/Milton/Furk
Green/Tisse/Vassell/Furk
Harris/3rd Spur player/Reed
Embiid/Drummond

Murray, Maxey and, to a lesser extent, Milton will pretty much be constantly on the court all game to serve as the creators. Defense doesn't really suffer at all (actually gets deeper tbh).

I value Vassell greatly, so my opinion might not be shared with the rest of the board. He would likely make one of (or both) Green and Tisse expendable within a year.