Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons

[WaltFrazier]

Windhorst said something like, NBA teams are crawling over themselves to get shooting. But the Raptors aren't. We seem to be all about getting 6'9 long guys, whether they can shoot or not. Which is Ben.

But Fred and OG for Ben is just crazy. Fred and Boucher maybe, and whatever else to make salary fit. But plug Ben into our defense in place of Fred's short stature, the length and defensive skill would be off the charts.

I feel like Fred is too much the face of the franchise right now, to be moved.

Sending Fred to the draft lottery seemed like a statement. Has there ever been a player who was traded the summer after representing his team at the lottery?

Not sure, not likely. But I thought the same thing when I saw Fred on tv during the draft lottery - no way he gets traded.

[tecumseh18]

I promise you there isn't a single chance OG is involved in any trade

It would only be for a legitimate 3-level scorer. SGA, for example. LaVine? (only if he was extended - but OG and DeMar seems like a complementary wing combo)

[WuTang_CMB]

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[normgod6]

if theres a trade centered around pascal available, masai should go for it. Ben simmons raises the teams potential ceiling simply due to his raw talent. If he learns to be aggressive and develop a short midrange/ floater game, he can be a star. A team built around pascal isnt going anywhere. Aside from the hot shooting start in the 2020 season, pascal has been an inefficient scorer and an average playmaker. We know a team led by pascal is a treadmill team at best. This is exactly the buy low type deal that you have to take advantage of. I dont even consider it a particularly high risk deal considering we have 2 years of data showing pascal really isnt a special player.

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[Los_29]

The moment we drafted Scottie...I assumed the Ben Simmons talk would go away.

What is Masai trying to do?

I don't think OG is available. However...I think Fred and Pascal are probably very much available. Fred and Pascal are on the same timeline as Embiid in terms of age.

Masai isn't giving up Fred or Pascal for Simmons. I think we all watched what happened to Simmons in the playoffs. You don't buy high on a player that just had his value vanish on national tv in the most important games of the year.

[normgod6]

The moment we drafted Scottie...I assumed the Ben Simmons talk would go away.

What is Masai trying to do?

I don't think OG is available. However...I think Fred and Pascal are probably very much available. Fred and Pascal are on the same timeline as Embiid in terms of age.

Masai isn't giving up Fred or Pascal for Simmons. I think we all watched what happened to Simmons in the playoffs. You don't buy high on a player that just had his value vanish on national tv in the most important games of the year.

trading pascal for ben isnt buying high on ben. Pascal is nearing to be a negative asset at this point with the size of his contract

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[Mak]

if theres a trade centered around pascal available, masai should go for it. Ben simmons raises the teams potential ceiling simply due to his raw talent. If he learns to be aggressive and develop a short midrange/ floater game, he can be a star. A team built around pascal isnt going anywhere. Aside from the hot shooting start in the 2020 season, pascal has been an inefficient scorer and an average playmaker. We know a team led by pascal is a treadmill team at best. This is exactly the buy low type deal that you have to take advantage of. I dont even consider it a particularly high risk deal considering we have 2 years of data showing pascal really isnt a special player.

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We have seen Pascal as a second scoring option in the finals, and we have seen Ben Simmons refuse to shoot and taken out of the game in the second round. How you raise our ceiling when Ben cant play in the playoffs?

I just dont understand this. Teams are offering Buddy Heild and Malcom Brogdon for him and we are trading someone who was just second team all NBA a year ago. What do you expect Ben to do here when he cant get past second round with Embiid. What do you think Ben will be able to do without him?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Windhorst said something like, NBA teams are crawling over themselves to get shooting. But the Raptors aren't. We seem to be all about getting 6'9 long guys, whether they can shoot or not. Which is Ben.

But Fred and OG for Ben is just crazy. Fred and Boucher maybe, and whatever else to make salary fit. But plug Ben into our defense in place of Fred's short stature, the length and defensive skill would be off the charts.

I feel like Fred is too much the face of the franchise right now, to be moved.

Sending Fred to the draft lottery seemed like a statement. Has there ever been a player who was traded the summer after representing his team at the lottery?

Yup, plus the decision to let Kyle go without a fight is also passing the torch. They're building a 6 foot statue soon. People are misreading this "interchangeable parts" thing, imo. Whenever Bobby is on the air he pumps Fred's tires. Imagine trading Fred and handing 3/5ths of the SL to Klutch? Masai's not a moron.

[Jef]

The gaping disparity between myself and the pro-Simmons'ers is the same gaping disparity between me and the anti-vaxxers.

[Mak]

The moment we drafted Scottie...I assumed the Ben Simmons talk would go away.

What is Masai trying to do?

I don't think OG is available. However...I think Fred and Pascal are probably very much available. Fred and Pascal are on the same timeline as Embiid in terms of age.

Masai is not trying to do anything. Ben does not want to come here and we dont want him. I would trade Gary Trent JR and Flynn for him when Trent can be traded. Thats about it.

[planetmars]

Simmons makes $33M but has a 15% trade kicker (so can make $38M after the trade). Raptors are a borderline tax team as well. So an offer I might begrudgingly make is this one here:

Toronto: Simmons (38M), Maxey (2M)
Philly: Dragic (19M), Boucher (7M), OG (16M), 2022 FRP

Save about $2M from the deal. So get below the tax.


Our depth would look like this:

Fred/Flynn/Banton
Trent/Maxey/Svi
Simmons/Barnes
Pascal/Watanabe
Birch/Achiuwa

And then a camp battle to fill out the rest (assuming that Yuta makes the cut) with Champagnie/Johnson available as well.

I'd hate to lose OG's 3pt shooting, but the defense holds with Simmons there. Simmons still has 2 shooters around him in Fred and Trent. Maxey gives us some scoring off the bench as well. Simmons also gives us extra play making and a slight uptick in rebounding (OG has about a 9 TRB%, Ben is closer to 12).

Dragic and Boucher are expiring guys that Philly could definitely use, and expendable for us.

Now if you like OG more than Ben, this trade's not a good one. OG spaces the floor. Can defend all 5 positions well. He's also likeable. Ben doesn't shoot.. but is a better player overall and has an ego. Can't really defend the 5 like OG can, but is elite 1-4.
He's also not an American which might be a good thing.. although not a lot of luck with Australians lol.

I guess I'd prefer to send Fred instead of OG.. but I think the team values Fred more. At least Nurse does. I do like his 9 3PA though.. that's really valuable for a team like ours. Plus he's our new Lowry for better or for worst.

The 2022 FRP could also end up in the lottery as the East has so much parity. And this could go sideways easily. We could protect it, but I don't think Morey would take it then (especially if he has to part with Maxey too).

That's my best offer, and I'm not really a huge fan of it.

[WuTang_CMB]

Masai not moving OG, FVV, Siakam after we just heard them publically support them.

So the only way we get him is in a 3 way deal somehow. Dragic, Flynn, Watanabe, Boucher, Picks all on the table.

Dont see it happening but Philly screwed so I love it either way

[normgod6]

if theres a trade centered around pascal available, masai should go for it. Ben simmons raises the teams potential ceiling simply due to his raw talent. If he learns to be aggressive and develop a short midrange/ floater game, he can be a star. A team built around pascal isnt going anywhere. Aside from the hot shooting start in the 2020 season, pascal has been an inefficient scorer and an average playmaker. We know a team led by pascal is a treadmill team at best. This is exactly the buy low type deal that you have to take advantage of. I dont even consider it a particularly high risk deal considering we have 2 years of data showing pascal really isnt a special player.

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We have seen Pascal as a second scoring option in the finals, and we have seen Ben Simmons refuse to shoot and taken out of the game in the second round. How you raise our ceiling when Ben cant play in the playoffs?

I just dont understand this. Teams are offering Buddy Heild and Malcom Brogdon for him and we are trading someone who was just second team all NBA a year ago. What do you expect Ben to do here when he cant get past second round with Embiid. What do you think Ben will be able to do without him?

yes i know ben simmons had a horrible playoffs but we have seen him be an excellent playmaker and defender in the past. Depending on your point of view, Simmons is an undervalued asset based on subjective and reactionary takes. If he can get back on track and build on his immense talent, he can be a real star. And Pascal only was 2nd team all nba because he had a hot start to the season and the team out performed expectations after kawhi left. But like during the derozan era, it was Kyle Lowry who carried the 2020 squad but pascal got the credit for it only because of his box score stats. Pascal is a 3rd option with a very limited offensive game. Hes an inefficient on ball creator and a below average passer.

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[Brinbe]

I don't think OG goes anywhere, he's the fulcrum and on a great contract. I only see him being included in any deal for a top top star.

So I can see either Fred or Pascal being the major piece along with Dragic/Boucher and picks/salary filler. Is that enough to entice Morey? I guess it depends on what else he's being offered but that's a fair price (arguably an overpay) for a distressed asset.

And it's not a big deal if it doesn't happen so not too much pressure either way on our end. They're the ones who need to make a deal.

[Zeno]

Simmons makes $33M but has a 15% trade kicker (so can make $38M after the trade). Raptors are a borderline tax team as well. So an offer I might begrudgingly make is this one here:

Toronto: Simmons (38M), Maxey (2M)
Philly: Dragic (19M), Boucher (7M), OG (16M), 2022 FRP

Save about $2M from the deal. So get below the tax.


Our depth would look like this:

Fred/Flynn/Banton
Trent/Maxey/Svi
Simmons/Barnes
Pascal/Watanabe
Birch/Achiuwa

And then a camp battle to fill out the rest (assuming that Yuta makes the cut) with Champagnie/Johnson available as well.

I'd hate to lose OG's 3pt shooting, but the defense holds with Simmons there. Simmons still has 2 shooters around him in Fred and Trent. Maxey gives us some scoring off the bench as well. Simmons also gives us extra play making and a slight uptick in rebounding (OG has about a 9 TRB%, Ben is closer to 12).

Dragic and Boucher are expiring guys that Philly could definitely use, and expendable for us.

Now if you like OG more than Ben, this trade's not a good one. OG spaces the floor. Can defend all 5 positions well. He's also likeable. Ben doesn't shoot.. but is a better player overall and has an ego. Can't really defend the 5 like OG can, but is elite 1-4.
He's also not an American which might be a good thing.. although not a lot of luck with Australians lol.

I guess I'd prefer to send Fred instead of OG.. but I think the team values Fred more. At least Nurse does. I do like his 9 3PA though.. that's really valuable for a team like ours. Plus he's our new Lowry for better or for worst.

The 2022 FRP could also end up in the lottery as the East has so much parity. And this could go sideways easily. We could protect it, but I don't think Morey would take it then (especially if he has to part with Maxey too).

That's my best offer, and I'm not really a huge fan of it.

Not addressing your trade offer which is too rich for my blood personally, I think Ben’s trade kicker is made irrelevant by the cap being nearly flat since his extension happened. He can’t exceed his max of the cap so his kicker would amount to zero I believe. Could be wrong but that is my understanding.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Masai not moving OG, FVV, Siakam after we just heard them publically support them.

So the only way we get him is in a 3 way deal somehow. Dragic, Flynn, Watanabe, Boucher, Picks all on the table.

Dont see it happening but Philly screwed so I love it either way

i don't mind a 3 way trade with Dragic going out and Moody, Kuminga coming in but NO to Simmons please

[AkelaLoneWolf]

if theres a trade centered around pascal available, masai should go for it. Ben simmons raises the teams potential ceiling simply due to his raw talent. If he learns to be aggressive and develop a short midrange/ floater game, he can be a star. A team built around pascal isnt going anywhere. Aside from the hot shooting start in the 2020 season, pascal has been an inefficient scorer and an average playmaker. We know a team led by pascal is a treadmill team at best. This is exactly the buy low type deal that you have to take advantage of. I dont even consider it a particularly high risk deal considering we have 2 years of data showing pascal really isnt a special player.

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We have seen Pascal as a second scoring option in the finals, and we have seen Ben Simmons refuse to shoot and taken out of the game in the second round. How you raise our ceiling when Ben cant play in the playoffs?

I just dont understand this. Teams are offering Buddy Heild and Malcom Brogdon for him and we are trading someone who was just second team all NBA a year ago. What do you expect Ben to do here when he cant get past second round with Embiid. What do you think Ben will be able to do without him?

yes i know ben simmons had a horrible playoffs but we have seen him be an excellent playmaker and defender in the past. Depending on your point of view, Simmons is an undervalued asset based on subjective and reactionary takes. If he can get back on track and build on his immense talent, he can be a real star. And Pascal only was 2nd team all nba because he had a hot start to the season and the team out performed expectations after kawhi left. But like during the derozan era, it was Kyle Lowry who carried the 2020 squad but pascal got the credit for it only because of his box score stats. Pascal is a 3rd option with a very limited offensive game. Hes an inefficient on ball creator and a below average passer.

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Lets not overrate simmons here. he wasn't that great when sixers played us in the playoffs. the only reason it even went to seven games is because butler starting running the point and initiating the offense which lowry had a difficult time containing.

[Potential]

I'd love to get ben simmons so we can boo him like bargnani. Can't wait to become an embarrassment and back to the laughingstock of the league. Complete the cycle having 3 of the most embarrassing professional sports teams in North America

[ATLTimekeeper]

Windhorst said something like, NBA teams are crawling over themselves to get shooting. But the Raptors aren't. We seem to be all about getting 6'9 long guys, whether they can shoot or not. Which is Ben.

But Fred and OG for Ben is just crazy. Fred and Boucher maybe, and whatever else to make salary fit. But plug Ben into our defense in place of Fred's short stature, the length and defensive skill would be off the charts.

I feel like Fred is too much the face of the franchise right now, to be moved.

I don't see how this is the case. Getting guys without established jump shots in the draft is pretty normal, even this year. Barnes, Kuminga, Giddey, Williams all top 10 picks. Everyone else they've brought in recently can shoot, or is told they have to shoot (Birch).

[WuTang_CMB]

Windhorst said something like, NBA teams are crawling over themselves to get shooting. But the Raptors aren't. We seem to be all about getting 6'9 long guys, whether they can shoot or not. Which is Ben.

But Fred and OG for Ben is just crazy. Fred and Boucher maybe, and whatever else to make salary fit. But plug Ben into our defense in place of Fred's short stature, the length and defensive skill would be off the charts.

I feel like Fred is too much the face of the franchise right now, to be moved.

With offense and the 3 taking over the NBA the past decade, teams follow trends and want to try to copy that and just think they need offensive guys and thats it.

Meanwhile, Raps see it totally differently and look at it the other way, and that DEFENCE will now be even more valuable than ever, which makes total sense, especially if we can find elite 2 way guys (barnes eventually, OG, Siakam, etc)