Marc Stein: Toronto has expressed interest in Ben Simmons

[Los_29]

The moment we drafted Scottie...I assumed the Ben Simmons talk would go away.

What is Masai trying to do?

I don't think OG is available. However...I think Fred and Pascal are probably very much available. Fred and Pascal are on the same timeline as Embiid in terms of age.

Masai isn't giving up Fred or Pascal for Simmons. I think we all watched what happened to Simmons in the playoffs. You don't buy high on a player that just had his value vanish on national tv in the most important games of the year.

trading pascal for ben isnt buying high on ben. Pascal is nearing to be a negative asset at this point with the size of his contract

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If Pascal is a negative asset then what does that make Ben?

Ben signed a 5 year 177 million dollar contract and this deal expires 2025.

Honestly, there is really no way to justify trading FVV or Pascal for Ben Simmons and I am very confident that the front office feels the same way. I'd be shocked if either of them are dealt for Ben Simmons.

So yes, trading a player that has won a championship as a 2nd option and isn't a liability on the offensive end is buying high on Ben.

[T_saurus]

People on here really think if we trade for Simmons, he'll suddenly have a change of heart and will want to learn how to shoot!

LOL, that ain't happening - behaviour and habits aren't changed that easily regardless of how great our developmental program is.

That's why I said he's a flawed player and needs a shrink more than a shooting coach!

[tecumseh18]

Let's face it, there's no deal to be had, unless Dragic + Boucher and 3 FRPs and 3 pick swaps will do it. If our management liked Simmons, I'd be OK with that. But Sixers would have to pretty desperate to take that offer.

Raptors just keep getting talked about because Sixers are trying to get the other teams to outbid our imaginary bid of Pascal plus picks. Sounds like the Kings aren't taking the bait. I'm not sure what the hold up with Minnesota is. Obviously the T-Wolves aren't giving up Edwards. Russell + young prospect + picks has to be the deal.

A Philly journo being interviewed on TSN today said he thought it ultimately will be for CJ McCulloch, plus some other asset. But Portland doesn't have a lot to give after the Nance trade.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Windhorst said something like, NBA teams are crawling over themselves to get shooting. But the Raptors aren't. We seem to be all about getting 6'9 long guys, whether they can shoot or not. Which is Ben.

But Fred and OG for Ben is just crazy. Fred and Boucher maybe, and whatever else to make salary fit. But plug Ben into our defense in place of Fred's short stature, the length and defensive skill would be off the charts.

I feel like Fred is too much the face of the franchise right now, to be moved.

With offense and the 3 taking over the NBA the past decade, teams follow trends and want to try to copy that and just think they need offensive guys and thats it.

Meanwhile, Raps see it totally differently and look at it the other way, and that DEFENCE will now be even more valuable than ever, which makes total sense, especially if we can find elite 2 way guys (barnes eventually, OG, Siakam, etc)

its a different way; not necessarily better. the rules favor offensive guard play and punish any aggressive defensive measures. masai is swimming against the current here. there's nothing about og or barnes demonstrating elite offensive skill.

[planetmars]

Simmons makes $33M but has a 15% trade kicker (so can make $38M after the trade). Raptors are a borderline tax team as well. So an offer I might begrudgingly make is this one here:

Toronto: Simmons (38M), Maxey (2M)
Philly: Dragic (19M), Boucher (7M), OG (16M), 2022 FRP

Save about $2M from the deal. So get below the tax.


Our depth would look like this:

Fred/Flynn/Banton
Trent/Maxey/Svi
Simmons/Barnes
Pascal/Watanabe
Birch/Achiuwa

And then a camp battle to fill out the rest (assuming that Yuta makes the cut) with Champagnie/Johnson available as well.

I'd hate to lose OG's 3pt shooting, but the defense holds with Simmons there. Simmons still has 2 shooters around him in Fred and Trent. Maxey gives us some scoring off the bench as well. Simmons also gives us extra play making and a slight uptick in rebounding (OG has about a 9 TRB%, Ben is closer to 12).

Dragic and Boucher are expiring guys that Philly could definitely use, and expendable for us.

Now if you like OG more than Ben, this trade's not a good one. OG spaces the floor. Can defend all 5 positions well. He's also likeable. Ben doesn't shoot.. but is a better player overall and has an ego. Can't really defend the 5 like OG can, but is elite 1-4.
He's also not an American which might be a good thing.. although not a lot of luck with Australians lol.

I guess I'd prefer to send Fred instead of OG.. but I think the team values Fred more. At least Nurse does. I do like his 9 3PA though.. that's really valuable for a team like ours. Plus he's our new Lowry for better or for worst.

The 2022 FRP could also end up in the lottery as the East has so much parity. And this could go sideways easily. We could protect it, but I don't think Morey would take it then (especially if he has to part with Maxey too).

That's my best offer, and I'm not really a huge fan of it.

Not addressing your trade offer which is too rich for my blood personally, I think Ben’s trade kicker is made irrelevant by the cap being nearly flat since his extension happened. He can’t exceed his max of the cap so his kicker would amount to zero I believe. Could be wrong but that is my understanding.

I looked into it and you are right. Trade kickers are voided on max contracts.

Thanks

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[Masai4PM]

The trade would be FVV, Boucher, 2 1st round picks and maybe 1 pick swap.

I would do it, not sure if Philly would, or even Masai for that matter.

[vulture]

Take this for what you will but OG’s name has been floating around this summer according Matt Moore of the action network.
It’s probably just teams calling about him.

[kj_]

if theres a trade centered around pascal available, masai should go for it. Ben simmons raises the teams potential ceiling simply due to his raw talent. If he learns to be aggressive and develop a short midrange/ floater game, he can be a star. A team built around pascal isnt going anywhere. Aside from the hot shooting start in the 2020 season, pascal has been an inefficient scorer and an average playmaker. We know a team led by pascal is a treadmill team at best. This is exactly the buy low type deal that you have to take advantage of. I dont even consider it a particularly high risk deal considering we have 2 years of data showing pascal really isnt a special player.

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We have seen Pascal as a second scoring option in the finals, and we have seen Ben Simmons refuse to shoot and taken out of the game in the second round. How you raise our ceiling when Ben cant play in the playoffs?

I just dont understand this. Teams are offering Buddy Heild and Malcom Brogdon for him and we are trading someone who was just second team all NBA a year ago. What do you expect Ben to do here when he cant get past second round with Embiid. What do you think Ben will be able to do without him?

yes i know ben simmons had a horrible playoffs but we have seen him be an excellent playmaker and defender in the past. Depending on your point of view, Simmons is an undervalued asset based on subjective and reactionary takes. If he can get back on track and build on his immense talent, he can be a real star. And Pascal only was 2nd team all nba because he had a hot start to the season and the team out performed expectations after kawhi left. But like during the derozan era, it was Kyle Lowry who carried the 2020 squad but pascal got the credit for it only because of his box score stats. Pascal is a 3rd option with a very limited offensive game. Hes an inefficient on ball creator and a below average passer.

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It’s kind of funny how you defend Ben by saying, he’s done it before and can get back to that. But then shoot down Siakam saying he was terrible last year (which he wasn’t) and his excellent play in 2019 and early 2020 was a mirage.

Both players have been good in the past.

Both players have had stretches of poor showings. Ben in the playoffs last year and siakam in the bubble and early last season.

I personally believe both can get to a new level so I’d be only making a deal that pairs them up. Not sure one exists though.


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[Los_29]

The fact there are people on this forum that think trading FVV or Pascal AND multiple FRP's and swaps for Ben Simmons is a good idea is downright scary.

Not even exaggerating, if we did that it would set this franchise back 5 years.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Let's face it, there's no deal to be had, unless Dragic + Boucher and 3 FRPs and 3 pick swaps will do it. If our management liked Simmons, I'd be OK with that. But Sixers would have to pretty desperate to take that offer.

Raptors just keep getting talked about because Sixers are trying to get the other teams to outbid our imaginary bid of Pascal plus picks. Sounds like the Kings aren't taking the bait. I'm not sure what the hold up with Minnesota is. Obviously the T-Wolves aren't giving up Edwards. Russell + young prospect + picks has to be the deal.

A Philly journo being interviewed on TSN today said he thought it ultimately will be for CJ McCulloch, plus some other asset. But Portland doesn't have a lot to give after the Nance trade.

Thank you for this logic. We are not trading Pascal, OG, or Fred for Ben. It’s just not happening.

I would be thrilled with Dragic / Boucher / Picks no doubt. But Morey is way too prideful to take that even if it’s a decent deal for them.

[everdiso]

Let's face it, there's no deal to be had, unless Dragic + Boucher and 3 FRPs and 3 pick swaps will do it. If our management liked Simmons, I'd be OK with that. But Sixers would have to pretty desperate to take that offer.

Raptors just keep getting talked about because Sixers are trying to get the other teams to outbid our imaginary bid of Pascal plus picks. Sounds like the Kings aren't taking the bait. I'm not sure what the hold up with Minnesota is. Obviously the T-Wolves aren't giving up Edwards. Russell + young prospect + picks has to be the deal.

A Philly journo being interviewed on TSN today said he thought it ultimately will be for CJ McCulloch, plus some other asset. But Portland doesn't have a lot to give after the Nance trade.

McCollum makes sense - a guy who is actually bad and not a guy I would even want on the raps for free, but has enough undeserved name value for Morey to save some face with the public.

[Zeno]

Dragic, Trent and a protected 1st for Simmons on Dec 15th is my top offer. There is no way Philly would do that.

[Potential]

Tbh I think if we get Simmons we'd force him to attempt 5+ threes a game. If he does that he'll eventually average 2 makes per game. Esp if we're not contending and just want to develop our players

[tecumseh18]

Dragic, Trent and a protected 1st for Simmons on Dec 15th is my top offer. There is no way Philly would do that.

Is Trent not available for trade 3 months after he signed the contract, since we used his Bird rights? That would be early November, wouldn't it?

Sixers don't want to wait until November. But Trent plus Dragic plus 2 FRPs for Ben and Maxey (if he really has to be traded) is close to fair, and curiously (hmm) their combined salaries exactly match. Raptors offence will be miserable, but man, that defence. I'd love to see a Fred-Simmons-OG-Pascal-Scottie lineup. Alternated with a Simmons-OG-Pascal-Scottie-Precious lineup. Wow!

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Tbh I think if we get Simmons we'd force him to attempt 5+ threes a game. If he does that he'll eventually average 2 makes per game. Esp if we're not contending and just want to develop our players

If we land Simmons we most certainly will he contending

[Zeno]

Dragic, Trent and a protected 1st for Simmons on Dec 15th is my top offer. There is no way Philly would do that.

Is Trent not available for trade 3 months after he signed the contract, since we used his Bird rights? That would be early November, wouldn't it?

Sixers don't want to wait until November. But Trent plus Dragic plus 2 FRPs for Ben and Maxey (if he really has to be traded) is close to fair, and curiously (hmm) their combined salaries exactly match. Raptors offence will be miserable, but man, that defence. I'd love to see a Fred-Simmons-OG-Pascal-Scottie lineup. Alternated with a Simmons-OG-Pascal-Scottie-Precious lineup. Wow!

I always that it was Dec 15th for off-season signings to be traded at earliest.
Anyway, I’m not sure I even want Simmons on the team but I am kind of into the novelty of those crazy length lineups 2 through 5 with Fred. Raptors’ ball would be a unique viewing experience at the very least. It probably will be anyway this season even if they are painful to watch on offence.

[NoBias]

I'd love to get ben simmons so we can boo him like bargnani. Can't wait to become an embarrassment and back to the laughingstock of the league. Complete the cycle having 3 of the most embarrassing professional sports teams in North America

You should go out more often.

[Van_Trump]

Watch on YouTube

4:40 "I do not want to go down to the level of Pascal Siakam and stuff"

Hysterical!

We should rename this thread Pascal Siakam and stuff.

[tecumseh18]

Watch on YouTube

4:40 "I do not want to go down to the level of Pascal Siakam and stuff"

Hysterical!

We should rename this thread Pascal Siakam and stuff.

So much disrespect. Pascal was 2nd team all-NBA. Simmons has only been 3rd team.

[WuTang_CMB]

Windhorst said something like, NBA teams are crawling over themselves to get shooting. But the Raptors aren't. We seem to be all about getting 6'9 long guys, whether they can shoot or not. Which is Ben.

But Fred and OG for Ben is just crazy. Fred and Boucher maybe, and whatever else to make salary fit. But plug Ben into our defense in place of Fred's short stature, the length and defensive skill would be off the charts.

I feel like Fred is too much the face of the franchise right now, to be moved.

With offense and the 3 taking over the NBA the past decade, teams follow trends and want to try to copy that and just think they need offensive guys and thats it.

Meanwhile, Raps see it totally differently and look at it the other way, and that DEFENCE will now be even more valuable than ever, which makes total sense, especially if we can find elite 2 way guys (barnes eventually, OG, Siakam, etc)

its a different way; not necessarily better. the rules favor offensive guard play and punish any aggressive defensive measures. masai is swimming against the current here. there's nothing about og or barnes demonstrating elite offensive skill.

Lol

Og and Barnes arent finished products by any means (esppecially barnes who just a pup. Its about the whole team dominating defensively while 3-4 guys also playing real good on the offensive end (just like we did in 2019).