Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[ankle420breaker]

If Ben is heading to Minnesota then a 3rd team has to be involved. We're not compatible enough to be direct trade partners in a Simmons deal.

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[BNelley24]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

[Iverson Armband]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

That team is locked in to a non-contending 4/5 seed for the rest of eternity, imo. And that's assuming Embiid doesn't die after the relentless parade of players streaking downhill to the rim at full speed with no resistance.

As opposed to what now, exactly?

[Negrodamus]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

[Sportfan73]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

CJ would more than thrive here and the spacing for Jo would be insane. And he’s no where near as bad of a defender as Curry, he’s closer to average than many think on that end. Need to give up the Lillard dream, if we go all in package for someone make it someone under 30. We could move green, Curry, maxey, thybulle, and 4 firsts months from now and be adding a star to CJ/Harris/Embiid

[howiezbt]

I like this one for all three teams and works under the cap:

Portland Trades: McCollum and Roco
Portland gets: Simmons and Justin Holiday

Indiana Trades: Brogdon and Holiday
Indiana Gets: Maxey and Roco

Philly Trades: Simmons and Maxey
Philly Gets: Brogdon and McCollum


Portland gets Simmons to pair with Lilliard and the sahooters on that team.

Indiana pairs a young budding star with Lavert and Sabonis. Love love this for Indiana

Philly gets solid veteran all start type players who are big time shooters to go with Embiid to make a run for the title.

[Embiid P]

Let's say that you are Portland which is a perennial treadmill team and Dame eventually makes it clear that he wants out to go to a contender.

Portland has made the playoffs for a league leading 8 years. That is not a treadmill, that is success which has seemingly plateaued. A treadmill is a team like Indiana that goes in and out of the lottery and playoffs every other year. Never bad enough to get a star, never good enough to compete.

The past four years (prior to that Philly was still in the process while Portland was winning) the Trailblazers and Sixers have had similar playoff success and failures.

2017-18 both teams finished third in the standings. Philly made the second round and were knocked out by Miami while Portland got their asses handed to them by the Pelicans in round 1.

2018-19 again both teams finished third in their conferences. Philly got knocked out of the second round while Portland made it to the conference finals

2019-20 - both teams knocked out of the first round. Portland struggled with injuries all season and had to win the play-in to get into the playoffs

2020-21 - Philly had a great regular season, won the first round and then collapsed against the Hawks while Portland disappointed against the Nuggets in the first round

so these two teams have been pretty similar the past four years. It's not like the Sixers have been vastly better. If Portland is a treadmill team is Philadelphia also a treadmill team?

Portland has been a treadmill team for longer than the Sixers. Also when comparing franchise players, Dame has a few years on Embiid in terms of age and NBA experience. Neither of them have ever played extensively with another true star. You can argue Embiid had Butler but that was for less than a full season and we were four unlucky bounces away from going to the ECF. The question is, who is more likely to demand a trade from their respective team first? My money is on Dame.

[Waynearchetype]

Portland has been a treadmill team for longer than the Sixers. Also when comparing franchise players, Dame has a few years on Embiid in terms of age and NBA experience. Neither of them have ever played extensively with another true star. You can argue Embiid had Butler but that was for less than a full season and we were four unlucky bounces away from going to the ECF. The question is, who is more likely to demand a trade from their respective team first? My money is on Dame.

3 yeas ago they were in the Western conference finals? Is that treadmill?

[BullyKing]

Portland has been a treadmill team for longer than the Sixers. Also when comparing franchise players, Dame has a few years on Embiid in terms of age and NBA experience. Neither of them have ever played extensively with another true star. You can argue Embiid had Butler but that was for less than a full season and we were four unlucky bounces away from going to the ECF. The question is, who is more likely to demand a trade from their respective team first? My money is on Dame.

3 yeas ago they were in the Western conference finals? Is that treadmill?

Yes. One outlier run in a decade of first and second round outs doesn't change their treadmill status.

[GutUNC]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

That team is locked in to a non-contending 4/5 seed for the rest of eternity, imo. And that's assuming Embiid doesn't die after the relentless parade of players streaking downhill to the rim at full speed with no resistance.

As opposed to what now, exactly?

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

[GutUNC]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

CJ would more than thrive here and the spacing for Jo would be insane. And he’s no where near as bad of a defender as Curry, he’s closer to average than many think on that end. Need to give up the Lillard dream, if we go all in package for someone make it someone under 30. We could move green, Curry, maxey, thybulle, and 4 firsts months from now and be adding a star to CJ/Harris/Embiid

Which stage of grief is coping? Apparently we're there now.

[Sportfan73]

That team is locked in to a non-contending 4/5 seed for the rest of eternity, imo. And that's assuming Embiid doesn't die after the relentless parade of players streaking downhill to the rim at full speed with no resistance.

As opposed to what now, exactly?

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

You think

CJ/Maxey
Green/Curry
Roco/Thybulle
Harris/niang
Embiid/Drummond

Is a perennial 5 seed?

[BullyKing]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

There's nothing good about McCollum. He's basically Tobias. We have almost a decade of evidence that you're not winning anything with CJ McCollum as your second best player. The only thing trading Simmons for McCollum would accomplish is that we'd be Portland in 2 years with Joel demanding out.

[Negrodamus]

As a Portland fan(one somewhat grounded in reality that we are likely losing lillard eventually) I think philly ought to go for CJ + a 2024 FRP with very very light protections (maybe 1-3 to be realistic, i doubt they'd do a full unprotected). I think in the event Dame asks out (which is likely next season) all of a sudden you have an asset that the Blazers would probably want a lot which might make up for some lost leverage in not having Simmons any longer.

It gets complicated because CHI would need to agree to change the protections on this years pick owed to them (which extends out to 2028...), but I'm sure something could be reached.

Throw in a Maxey/Covington swap and that would help cover some lost defense.

I honestly think the 2024 pick would be the main value of this trade. Lillard is 31 years old and will be turning 34 when the pick is available. At that point, it might be Ben's team which I think will signal a rebuild. Could be a top 5 pick. Gives immediate and long term value.

[GutUNC]

As opposed to what now, exactly?

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

You think

CJ/Maxey
Green/Curry
Roco/Thybulle
Harris/niang
Embiid/Drummond

Is a perennial 5 seed?

With the zero flexibility to make moves that it allow you? Absolutely without question. You're way behind Milwaukee and Brooklyn with no chance of catching them if you're carrying CJM and Harris' contracts. It's like people forgot CJM is a negative value contract like Tobias is.

[BullyKing]

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

You think

CJ/Maxey
Green/Curry
Roco/Thybulle
Harris/niang
Embiid/Drummond

Is a perennial 5 seed?

With the zero flexibility to make moves that it allow you? Absolutely without question. You're way behind Milwaukee and Brooklyn with no chance of catching them if you're carrying CJM and Harris' contracts. It's like people forgot CJM is a negative value contract like Tobias is.

I disagree. It's not a perennial 5 seed because its only going to continue to get worse as CJ, Green, and Roco continue to get age and decline and that's assuming Joel health.

[Iverson Armband]

That team is locked in to a non-contending 4/5 seed for the rest of eternity, imo. And that's assuming Embiid doesn't die after the relentless parade of players streaking downhill to the rim at full speed with no resistance.

As opposed to what now, exactly?

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

Yeah, I’m sure Morey’s phone is just overflowing with potential deals that make us obvious championship contenters right now or in the future.

In the case you’ve been in a cave the past 48 hrs, we’re in no position to stick our nose up at a player of CJ’s caliber atm. You should be thanking your lucky stars if he’s even available at this point.

[Negrodamus]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

There's nothing good about McCollum. He's basically Tobias. We have almost a decade of evidence that you're not winning anything with CJ McCollum as your second best player. The only thing trading Simmons for McCollum would accomplish is that we'd be Portland in 2 years with Joel demanding out.

It's arguable that we have half a decade of evidence that we're not winning anything with Ben Simmons as the second best player, so what's the solution? We had a decade of evidence that the Raptors weren't going to win anything with Lowry as the second best player until Kawhi joined the team and elevated that team. I don't think a Kawhi-level player is going to be available. Do we sit on Ben into the season until teams "come to their senses" on his value? I don't anticipate that happening either. Obviously I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but I do see it as diminishing returns if Ben refuses to play and becomes a distraction into the season.


Perhaps if we actually run 5 competent players on offense who don't crowd Embiid's space in the paint, maybe Embiid takes his offensive game to another level.

[stormi]

I’m at the point where besides a huge haul from Twolves, I have no clue what Is going to happen. Do we attach Maxey to acquire a Fox level player plus more? Who is even available? Morey is gonna have to get hella creative.

CJ isn’t worth it btw. Regardless of a Ben deal, Dame is still a long range target for the team, so why would you decrease those odds of him asking out? You wouldn’t. Not a chance in hell CJ for Ben type deal happens

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

There's nothing good about McCollum. He's basically Tobias. We have almost a decade of evidence that you're not winning anything with CJ McCollum as your second best player. The only thing trading Simmons for McCollum would accomplish is that we'd be Portland in 2 years with Joel demanding out.

Disgree with CJ = Tobias. CJ is a 90th percentile isolation scorer, and an elite offensive weapon. He has more 40 point playoff games than Tobias has 30 point playoff games - and that's playing alongside a usage monster in Dame Lillard. He has his warts for sure, he's a sieve defensively, but I think he's talented enough to be a 3rd option on a championship team. Tobias Harris is a roleplayer.

But yeah I wouldn't ever consider Ben for CJ in a million years. Timelines are way off.

[Sportfan73]

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

You think

CJ/Maxey
Green/Curry
Roco/Thybulle
Harris/niang
Embiid/Drummond

Is a perennial 5 seed?

With the zero flexibility to make moves that it allow you? Absolutely without question. You're way behind Milwaukee and Brooklyn with no chance of catching them if you're carrying CJM and Harris' contracts. It's like people forgot CJM is a negative value contract like Tobias is.

If he gets here and has similar numbers to what he puts up with dame out I just don’t agree. And you have green, Curry, Thybulle, Maxey, and 4 firsts to make a deal for a star. Everyone who’s saying we know who CJ is, he has literally played with Dame his entire career. And last year he hit 40 percent of his 3’s shooting 10 a game. And a ton of them were off the bounce. It’s not perfect but it’s a really good fit offensively with some upside there. Like we alll know what Brogdon is with his own team. We don’t with CJ