Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[BullyKing]

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

There's nothing good about McCollum. He's basically Tobias. We have almost a decade of evidence that you're not winning anything with CJ McCollum as your second best player. The only thing trading Simmons for McCollum would accomplish is that we'd be Portland in 2 years with Joel demanding out.

Disgree with CJ = Tobias. CJ is a 90th percentile isolation scorer, and an elite offensive weapon. He has more 40 point playoff games than Tobias has 30 point playoff games, and that's playing alongside a usage monster in Dame Lillard. He has his warts for sure, he's a sieve defensively, but I think he's talented enough to be a 3rd option on a championship team. Tobias Harris is a roleplayer.

But yeah I wouldn't ever consider Ben for CJ in a million years. Timelines are way off.

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

[GutUNC]

As opposed to what now, exactly?

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

Yeah, I’m sure Morey’s phone is just overflowing with potential deals that make us obvious championship contenters right now or in the future.

In the case you’ve been in a cave the past 48 hrs, we’re in no position to stick our nose up at a player of CJ’s caliber atm. You should be thanking your lucky stars if he’s even available at this point.

So you're just here again to offer more Ben hyperbole? Cool.

[GutUNC]

I'd take a package based on futures a million times out of a million over McCollum. Maintain the flexibility to move on a player who's, I dunno, not on a negative value contract. This doesn't have to be the final move.

[Iverson Armband]

Since "this deal" and "nothing" aren't the only 2 options, that's a pretty irrelevant question.

Yeah, I’m sure Morey’s phone is just overflowing with potential deals that make us obvious championship contenters right now or in the future.

In the case you’ve been in a cave the past 48 hrs, we’re in no position to stick our nose up at a player of CJ’s caliber atm. You should be thanking your lucky stars if he’s even available at this point.

So you're just here again to offer more Ben hyperbole? Cool.

Just hope you have your box of Kleenex ready when the inevitable underwhelming deal goes through because you refuse to deal in reality.

[Sportfan73]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Blazers jumped to top team and 2/1 odds for Ben

[Negrodamus]

It would be humorous if Ben does passive-aggressively play for us into the season in order to not get fined and shoots 10 threes a game as a final middle finger to the fans. I'd actually like him more if he did that.

[BullyKing]

CJ is probably his actual value, but we want to get his ripoff value of years past where teams believed he was fixable. I regret to inform you that what CJ McCollum brings to the table is much more valuable in today's game than what Ben does. CJ is also a 28ppg, 6apg, and 5rpg player when not with Lillard. Now imagine a Lillard level gravity player but in the post. I think with him being a low impact athlete, his injury risks are lowered and he has decent longevity moving forward. He's in the middle of his prime and could cross that 30ppg threshold with Embiid.

My guess, however, is that the Blazers are willing to part with CJ and the Sixers are demanding Lillard, so the conversation is dying there.

T'Wolves feel like the likely option because they are willing to overpay and give up every pick and swap for Ben. The key will be finding that third team to give us a star right now.

There's nothing good about McCollum. He's basically Tobias. We have almost a decade of evidence that you're not winning anything with CJ McCollum as your second best player. The only thing trading Simmons for McCollum would accomplish is that we'd be Portland in 2 years with Joel demanding out.

It's arguable that we have half a decade of evidence that we're not winning anything with Ben Simmons as the second best player, so what's the solution? We had a decade of evidence that the Raptors weren't going to win anything with Lowry as the second best player until Kawhi joined the team and elevated that team. I don't think a Kawhi-level player is going to be available. Do we sit on Ben into the season until teams "come to their senses" on his value? I don't anticipate that happening either. Obviously I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but I do see it as diminishing returns if Ben refuses to play and becomes a distraction into the season.


Perhaps if we actually run 5 competent players on offense who don't crowd Embiid's space in the paint, maybe Embiid takes his offensive game to another level.

I'm not saying we're in a good position right now. But trading Simmons for McCollum does nothing but lock us into a bad position.

Obviously it's difficult for us to really know anything since we don't actually know what it is out there. Would Cleveland offer Sexton and a pick package? I'd prefer that easily. In fact, how much less are you getting out of Malik Beasley compared to McCollum? Definitely not enough that I wouldn't prefer him and the full Wolves pick package over just McCollum and it's not remotely close to me. At least there you have some upside of a Sexton or Beasley breakout where have the picks as a fall back at least for some optionality.

[BullyKing]

I'd take a package based on futures a million times out of a million over McCollum. Maintain the flexibility to move on a player who's, I dunno, not on a negative value contract. This doesn't have to be the final move.

Right. We've got dudes on this message willing to pay an unprotected 1st to get rid of Harris' contract while also being willing to trade Simmons to get another Harris contract.

[stormi]

There's nothing good about McCollum. He's basically Tobias. We have almost a decade of evidence that you're not winning anything with CJ McCollum as your second best player. The only thing trading Simmons for McCollum would accomplish is that we'd be Portland in 2 years with Joel demanding out.

Disgree with CJ = Tobias. CJ is a 90th percentile isolation scorer, and an elite offensive weapon. He has more 40 point playoff games than Tobias has 30 point playoff games, and that's playing alongside a usage monster in Dame Lillard. He has his warts for sure, he's a sieve defensively, but I think he's talented enough to be a 3rd option on a championship team. Tobias Harris is a roleplayer.

But yeah I wouldn't ever consider Ben for CJ in a million years. Timelines are way off.

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

[Sportfan73]

Disgree with CJ = Tobias. CJ is a 90th percentile isolation scorer, and an elite offensive weapon. He has more 40 point playoff games than Tobias has 30 point playoff games, and that's playing alongside a usage monster in Dame Lillard. He has his warts for sure, he's a sieve defensively, but I think he's talented enough to be a 3rd option on a championship team. Tobias Harris is a roleplayer.

But yeah I wouldn't ever consider Ben for CJ in a million years. Timelines are way off.

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

And a ton of it is off the bounce

[BullyKing]

Disgree with CJ = Tobias. CJ is a 90th percentile isolation scorer, and an elite offensive weapon. He has more 40 point playoff games than Tobias has 30 point playoff games, and that's playing alongside a usage monster in Dame Lillard. He has his warts for sure, he's a sieve defensively, but I think he's talented enough to be a 3rd option on a championship team. Tobias Harris is a roleplayer.

But yeah I wouldn't ever consider Ben for CJ in a million years. Timelines are way off.

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

He's career TS% is below Shake Milton's. That's not efficiency and it sure as hell doesn't approach the universe of game changing elite.

[GutUNC]

Disgree with CJ = Tobias. CJ is a 90th percentile isolation scorer, and an elite offensive weapon. He has more 40 point playoff games than Tobias has 30 point playoff games, and that's playing alongside a usage monster in Dame Lillard. He has his warts for sure, he's a sieve defensively, but I think he's talented enough to be a 3rd option on a championship team. Tobias Harris is a roleplayer.

But yeah I wouldn't ever consider Ben for CJ in a million years. Timelines are way off.

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

It's infuriating how good a fit he would be in a parallel universe where he was next to Simmons.

[stormi]

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

He's career TS% is below Shake Milton's. That's not efficiency and it sure as hell doesn't approach the universe of game changing elite.

Without contextualizing those numbers, his career TS% is within a percentage point of Paul George's. If he could defend anywhere near the same way PG could he'd be a championship #2 option. Factoring in volume and average shot distance, and the amount of scoring CJ does in isolation it makes his numbers much more impressive.

[Roy The Natural]

McConnell is a below scorer from an efficiency standpoint. So he's inefficient on offense and decidedly below average on defense. He is also older and makes a ton of money. Why is this someone anyone would be interested in acquiring?

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

He's career TS% is below Shake Milton's. That's not efficiency and it sure as hell doesn't approach the universe of game changing elite.

Career TS% isn't relevant when fundamental and sustainable changes have happened to a players shot distribution. If anything, CJ's TS% should be expected to stay above his career numbers in coming years given the increase in 3pt shots.

[BullyKing]

45/40/81 splits when you're shooting nearly 19 shots from the field and 9 threes per game is a notch below the game changing elite. That's Paul George volume/efficiency.

He's career TS% is below Shake Milton's. That's not efficiency and it sure as hell doesn't approach the universe of game changing elite.

Without contextualizing those numbers, his career TS% is within a percentage point of Paul George's. If he could defend anywhere near the same way PG could he'd be a championship #2 option. Factoring in volume and average shot distance, and the amount of scoring CJ does in isolation it makes his numbers much more impressive.

Sure, McCollum who could defend like George would be a fantastic player. And Simmons who shoots like a Curry would be the next LeBron. But neither of those are reality so I don't see your point.

[the_process]

Assuming the Spurs and Kings are out, which I'm not buying but just for argument's sake... Just take the pick package from Minnesota, send Beasley elsewhere in the deal for a PG, Dragic or Rubio being the easy targets, and keep the powder dry and see how the season goes and what shakes free into next offseason.

If they can't get another star now, stock up the pantry and wait. The Sixers aren't winning anything anyway if all they're doing is running it back. I would really like if they could pump and dump Tobias while they're waiting too.

[RedSalsa]

I hope you're right as a Wolves fan. I would do this in a heartbeat as a Sixers fan considering the circumstances. We can flip those assets during the season for when a star becomes available.

Jon K does not know what he’s talking about he grew up in the Twin Cities and is a fan of the Timberwolves he is simply a mouthpiece for the organization.

You might be thinking about DWolfson, Jon K usually never creates any type of rumor that doesn't have any legs.

No I’m thinking of the right guy he’s from the Twin Cities and a blind homer. I recall last year listening to him on the radio on the Timberwolves signed Ed Davis he thought it was so great. The guy knows nothing about the NBA as most people in the Twin Cities area.

[stormi]

He's career TS% is below Shake Milton's. That's not efficiency and it sure as hell doesn't approach the universe of game changing elite.

Without contextualizing those numbers, his career TS% is within a percentage point of Paul George's. If he could defend anywhere near the same way PG could he'd be a championship #2 option. Factoring in volume and average shot distance, and the amount of scoring CJ does in isolation it makes his numbers much more impressive.

Sure, McCollum who could defend like George would be a fantastic player. And Simmons who shoots like a Curry would be the next LeBron. But neither of those are reality so I don't see your point.

CJ McCollum is Paul George / superstar level on offense. That's my point.

The Tobias Harris comparison is forced and unfounded.

[RedSalsa]

Those Minnesota deals don't make any sense, not win now, not win later and not close to enough to trade for another star. Beasley is damaged goods and not the kind of guy you want in your locker room, or even your city. If you let the T'Wolves keep all of KAT, Edwards and DLo it damages the value of the picks. I'd rather he just not report than become Elton Brand and take that kind of trash. Teams are lowballing now after the Simmons cry for being saved from having to play in front fans and everyone else that has stood up for and protected him for so long. We have Morey for a reason and it is not to trade Simmons for a return that isn't even as good as Brett Brown could get for him. Everybody is posturing at this point. Don't cave.

Morey isn’t Doing business with Minnesota unless Edwards are Carl Anthony towns is involved. End of story.

[BullyKing]

Without contextualizing those numbers, his career TS% is within a percentage point of Paul George's. If he could defend anywhere near the same way PG could he'd be a championship #2 option. Factoring in volume and average shot distance, and the amount of scoring CJ does in isolation it makes his numbers much more impressive.

Sure, McCollum who could defend like George would be a fantastic player. And Simmons who shoots like a Curry would be the next LeBron. But neither of those are reality so I don't see your point.

CJ McCollum is Paul George / superstar level on offense. That's my point.

The Tobias Harris comparison is forced and unfounded.

But your point is nonsense because Paul George isn't a superstar on offense. He's a superstar because of what he brings on both sides of the court. It's like saying Jahlil Okafor is a superstar because he matches Rudy Gobert's superstar level on offense.