MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Pacers probably wanted Marcus Garrett on that two way first before Jerreau. Garrett was already committed to us but had to wait on agent so they moved in quickly on Deeky.

Watch on YouTube

[MettaWorldPanda]

We got really lucky to lock up this kid on that two way. He's going to be here for a long time.

Watch on YouTube

https://www.cjonline.com/story/sports/college/hawk-zone/2021/03/03/kansas-jayhawks-marcus-garrett-among-bill-selfs-all-time-favorites/6900209002/

[IggieCC]

We don't wanna go through another Briante Weber experiment bish

[Bishop45]

Not hearing enough fake news on Sexton, little worried that he'd end up in Philly

They cant move Love. Thats the main reason they were willing to trade him.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Why do you talk about trade news like you have insider info, when me and you know that you don't?

[AirP.]

It's at least encouraging, I'm more interested in when the regular workouts start and him getting the rust off him. Unlike his last surgery, he does not have time to wait, he's got to produce as soon as possible with time running out on getting a sizable contract again in his career.

He would be silly to rush this. Expecting him to be a star calibur player this season is setting yourself up for failure. His only goal should be remaining healthy and show improvement physically throughout the year. And maybe just maybe playoff time show some spark of high level play. But if this room expecting him to be a star or failure this season, its gonna be some unreasonable hate in here. Which I think will happen.

My outlook is watching him improve physically. And then he gets a whole off season working out learning his new limitations after fully healing. Then next season is the year to judge him to what he will be.


I am pretty sure he will be on a maintenance plan the entire year. Spo has been strict on that regardless who the player is coming off a serious surgery.

Who has said they expect him to be a star? I'm fine if he's not a star for the rest of his career, I just want a good 2 way player who has the ability to score 20 ppg a night once he gets the rust out which may not happen till the 2022-2023 season. To me, he's the key for this team to get more years out of Butler by taking some of the scoring/defending load off him allowing Butler to go all out in the 4th quarter of important games.

If Oladipo is "right" I think he can actually be the 2nd best player on this team behind Butler but then again after Butler, #2 could be Bam, Lowry or a "right" Oladipo depending on the matchups.

I'm really interested in seeing what Miami can will get in a Robinson and/or Herro package this year or next summer. Miami can not let a talent like Oladipo walk for nothing next summer if he's right so you have to pay Oladipo but you can't have that much money wrapped up with the guards(Lowry, Oladipo, Butler, Herro, Robinson) while having Bam, Tucker, Morris and Dedmon as your bigs, something has to give and I expect it to be Robinson or Herro.

[twix2500]

Not hearing enough fake news on Sexton, little worried that he'd end up in Philly

They cant move Love. Thats the main reason they were willing to trade him.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Why do you talk about trade news like you have insider info, when me and you know that you don't?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[twix2500]

It's at least encouraging, I'm more interested in when the regular workouts start and him getting the rust off him. Unlike his last surgery, he does not have time to wait, he's got to produce as soon as possible with time running out on getting a sizable contract again in his career.

He would be silly to rush this. Expecting him to be a star calibur player this season is setting yourself up for failure. His only goal should be remaining healthy and show improvement physically throughout the year. And maybe just maybe playoff time show some spark of high level play. But if this room expecting him to be a star or failure this season, its gonna be some unreasonable hate in here. Which I think will happen.

My outlook is watching him improve physically. And then he gets a whole off season working out learning his new limitations after fully healing. Then next season is the year to judge him to what he will be.


I am pretty sure he will be on a maintenance plan the entire year. Spo has been strict on that regardless who the player is coming off a serious surgery.

Who has said they expect him to be a star? I'm fine if he's not a star for the rest of his career, I just want a good 2 way player who has the ability to score 20 ppg a night once he gets the rust out which may not happen till the 2022-2023 season. To me, he's the key for this team to get more years out of Butler by taking some of the scoring/defending load off him allowing Butler to go all out in the 4th quarter of important games.

If Oladipo is "right" I think he can actually be the 2nd best player on this team behind Butler but then again after Butler, #2 could be Bam, Lowry or a "right" Oladipo depending on the matchups.

I'm really interested in seeing what Miami can will get in a Robinson and/or Herro package this year or next summer. Miami can not let a talent like Oladipo walk for nothing next summer if he's right so you have to pay Oladipo but you can't have that much money wrapped up with the guards(Lowry, Oladipo, Butler, Herro, Robinson) while having Bam, Tucker, Morris and Dedmon as your bigs, something has to give and I expect it to be Robinson or Herro.

I think its a good chance he returns. A lot will likely be about what happens behind the scenes. How well his healing is progressing, how well his physical abilities are returning. The video he put out im kind of boarderline on how he looks. He always been slim which he is maintaining that. But he doesn't look well condition or cut. The good is that he may not be over doing it to re-injure himself. The bad he still has a long way to be in basketball shape.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm with you that potentially I think he is a great fit. At a good age to still be a go too player for the next 4 years.

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[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[AirP.]

Weird... Ira brings up something I've talked about for a while... Miami's may have to decide between Oladipo(free agent) or Tyler(extension).

But should Oladipo return to his previous form, it could create a Herro-vs.-Oladipo debate when it comes to the team’s salary structure going forward.

Read on Twitter

What Ira doesn't mention in this future possible debate is that it's not really Herro vs Oladipo, it's Herro with Oladipo leaving for nothing vs keeping Oladipo and moving Herro in a package. Miami's probably going into the tax next year unless they let Oladipo leave for nothing but I'd rather see Miami move Herro + Tucker + some smaller salaries to find a very good big to go next to Bam.

[SA37]

Weird... Ira brings up something I've talked about for a while... Miami's may have to decide between Oladipo(free agent) or Tyler(extension).

But should Oladipo return to his previous form, it could create a Herro-vs.-Oladipo debate when it comes to the team’s salary structure going forward.

Read on Twitter

What Ira doesn't mention in this future possible debate is that it's not really Herro vs Oladipo, it's Herro with Oladipo leaving for nothing vs keeping Oladipo and moving Herro in a package. Miami's probably going into the tax next year unless they let Oladipo leave for nothing but I'd rather see Miami move Herro + Tucker + some smaller salaries to find a very good big to go next to Bam.

The problem with moving Herro is his salary is so low it would be difficult to get equal compensation in return, especially since Miami really only has Robinson or PJ Tucker it could add in a trade.

Oladipo is a better situation for Miami. I believe only San Antonio, Detroit, Orlando, and Minnesota ($20M) will have cap space next summer. Of those teams, you'd assume only Minnesota would have any interest in adding a 30-year-old, but Minnesota also has a lot of money invested in Malik Beasley and De'Angelo Russell and they have Anthony Edwards. Even if Minnesota decided to offer Oladipo a contract starting at $20M, that would absolutely be a number Miami would match (I know Oladipo won't be a RFA, but Miami could offer similar or significantly better terms).

The only other way Oladipo could leave, would be taking the MLE or via S&T, which would allow Miami to get some compensation.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

FELLAS

SOMEONE TELL YOUTUBE TO DELETE ALL THESSE TRASH ASS VIDEOS OF FAMOUS YOUTUBERS WHO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING PICKUP BASKETBALL GAMES

THEYRE ALL TRASH. THE GAMES DEVOLVE INTO A 3 POINT BRICK LAYING CONTEST. HAS STEPH CURRY REALLY INFLUENCED THESE KIDS TO NOT LEARN THE MID RANGE GAME OR HOW TO PUT YUR BACK TO THE BASKET AND POST SOMEONE UP AND USE MOVeS TO SCORE?????

i been watchin all these dudes but i finally got pushed over the edge when i clicked on a "Gio wise vs Carlos" video. OMFG what the **** is this **** . do kids nowadays not know how to Post up or use the mid range?!?? they were literally just taking turns shooting bricks from 3pt. that one kid didnt even bother to get as close to the 3pt line as possible, he was taking 3pters 5 feet behind the line, Curry style. If you took a shot like that in our pickup games back in the 90s, we'd clown you for taking bad shots and not pass you the ball anymore

this gio wise guy even stood there and started dribbling really fast. except the kid doesnt go anywhere with it. i legit could have just watched him and closed my eyes, open them up 10 seconds later, and hes still in front of me doing that extra dribbling **** only to pull up for a stepback 3 anyway. does he not understand dribble moves is so you can get past your defender and score. its not to sit there and try to look cool while you not goin anywhere, still in the same spot you were 10 seconds ago.

these kids are allergic to the paint.

curry wannabes, **** its a generation of scrublords who have no idea how to play ball.

[twix2500]

FELLAS

SOMEONE TELL YOUTUBE TO DELETE ALL THESSE TRASH ASS VIDEOS OF FAMOUS YOUTUBERS WHO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING PICKUP BASKETBALL GAMES

THEYRE ALL TRASH. THE GAMES DEVOLVE INTO A 3 POINT BRICK LAYING CONTEST. HAS STEPH CURRY REALLY INFLUENCED THESE KIDS TO NOT LEARN THE MID RANGE GAME OR HOW TO PUT YUR BACK TO THE BASKET AND POST SOMEONE UP AND USE MOVeS TO SCORE?????

i been watchin all these dudes but i finally got pushed over the edge when i clicked on a "Gio wise vs Carlos" video. OMFG what the **** is this **** . do kids nowadays not know how to Post up or use the mid range?!?? they were literally just taking turns shooting bricks from 3pt. that one kid didnt even bother to get as close to the 3pt line as possible, he was taking 3pters 5 feet behind the line, Curry style. If you took a shot like that in our pickup games back in the 90s, we'd clown you for taking bad shots and not pass you the ball anymore

this gio wise guy even stood there and started dribbling really fast. except the kid doesnt go anywhere with it. i legit could have just watched him and closed my eyes, open them up 10 seconds later, and hes still in front of me doing that extra dribbling **** only to pull up for a stepback 3 anyway. does he not understand dribble moves is so you can get past your defender and score. its not to sit there and try to look cool while you not goin anywhere, still in the same spot you were 10 seconds ago.

these kids are allergic to the paint.

curry wannabes, **** its a generation of scrublords who have no idea how to play ball.

I blame Bish

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[AirP.]

Weird... Ira brings up something I've talked about for a while... Miami's may have to decide between Oladipo(free agent) or Tyler(extension).

But should Oladipo return to his previous form, it could create a Herro-vs.-Oladipo debate when it comes to the team’s salary structure going forward.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

What Ira doesn't mention in this future possible debate is that it's not really Herro vs Oladipo, it's Herro with Oladipo leaving for nothing vs keeping Oladipo and moving Herro in a package. Miami's probably going into the tax next year unless they let Oladipo leave for nothing but I'd rather see Miami move Herro + Tucker + some smaller salaries to find a very good big to go next to Bam.

The problem with moving Herro is his salary is so low it would be difficult to get equal compensation in return, especially since Miami really only has Robinson or PJ Tucker it could add in a trade.

Oladipo is a better situation for Miami. I believe only San Antonio, Detroit, Orlando, and Minnesota ($20M) will have cap space next summer. Of those teams, you'd assume only Minnesota would have any interest in adding a 30-year-old, but Minnesota also has a lot of money invested in Malik Beasley and De'Angelo Russell and they have Anthony Edwards. Even if Minnesota decided to offer Oladipo a contract starting at $20M, that would absolutely be a number Miami would match (I know Oladipo won't be a RFA, but Miami could offer similar or significantly better terms).

The only other way Oladipo could leave, would be taking the MLE or via S&T, which would allow Miami to get some compensation.

You don't just move Herro, you have to package him in a trade, which the 1st candidate for this would be PJ Tucker trying to find a PF/C to team up with Bam.

On Oladipo, if he's starting to look "good" again near the end of this current season, why wouldn't a team with cap space not add him to get better or even better add him as an asset to flip to a contender for assets? Everyone has to get to the 90% of the cap so why not invest it basically? So if you retain Oladipo you now have big money for 1-3 in Butler, Lowry, Oladipo and Robison, it doesn't really make sense to add another big guard contract while only Bam is getting big money for the 4-5 positions. I would hope combining Herro + Tucker + possibly other small contracts coupled with being ok going into the tax(so 125% of that package) can bring in a good starting big opposite of Bam and possibly a draft asset or young player Miami likes.

Who knows, maybe the plan is to retain Oladipo and Herro with Robinson's contract being the one moved in 2 summers.

If you're looking at the contracts and the ages you can see that Miami is prioritizing staying out of the tax this year because they've decided to go into it for the next X amount of years, which is why I don't expect Miami to sign a 15 player to the roster unless it's an incredible value to them to start that tax repeater clock a year early.

Although this is the best roster since Butler has been in Miami, I believe the 2022-2023 Heat roster will be better then the 2021-2022 roster because of Oladipo's health and a possible sizable move to balance out the roster to give Riley a very good chance to get one more title.

[SA37]

Weird... Ira brings up something I've talked about for a while... Miami's may have to decide between Oladipo(free agent) or Tyler(extension).

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

What Ira doesn't mention in this future possible debate is that it's not really Herro vs Oladipo, it's Herro with Oladipo leaving for nothing vs keeping Oladipo and moving Herro in a package. Miami's probably going into the tax next year unless they let Oladipo leave for nothing but I'd rather see Miami move Herro + Tucker + some smaller salaries to find a very good big to go next to Bam.

The problem with moving Herro is his salary is so low it would be difficult to get equal compensation in return, especially since Miami really only has Robinson or PJ Tucker it could add in a trade.

Oladipo is a better situation for Miami. I believe only San Antonio, Detroit, Orlando, and Minnesota ($20M) will have cap space next summer. Of those teams, you'd assume only Minnesota would have any interest in adding a 30-year-old, but Minnesota also has a lot of money invested in Malik Beasley and De'Angelo Russell and they have Anthony Edwards. Even if Minnesota decided to offer Oladipo a contract starting at $20M, that would absolutely be a number Miami would match (I know Oladipo won't be a RFA, but Miami could offer similar or significantly better terms).

The only other way Oladipo could leave, would be taking the MLE or via S&T, which would allow Miami to get some compensation.

You don't just move Herro, you have to package him in a trade, which the 1st candidate for this would be PJ Tucker trying to find a PF/C to team up with Bam.

On Oladipo, if he's starting to look "good" again near the end of this current season, why wouldn't a team with cap space not add him to get better or even better add him as an asset to flip to a contender for assets? Everyone has to get to the 90% of the cap so why not invest it basically? So if you retain Oladipo you now have big money for 1-3 in Butler, Lowry, Oladipo and Robison, it doesn't really make sense to add another big guard contract while only Bam is getting big money for the 4-5 positions. I would hope combining Herro + Tucker + possibly other small contracts coupled with being ok going into the tax(so 125% of that package) can bring in a good starting big opposite of Bam and possibly a draft asset or young player Miami likes.

Who knows, maybe the plan is to retain Oladipo and Herro with Robinson's contract being the one moved in 2 summers.

If you're looking at the contracts and the ages you can see that Miami is prioritizing staying out of the tax this year because they've decided to go into it for the next X amount of years, which is why I don't expect Miami to sign a 15 player to the roster unless it's an incredible value to them to start that tax repeater clock a year early.

Although this is the best roster since Butler has been in Miami, I believe the 2022-2023 Heat roster will be better then the 2021-2022 roster because of Oladipo's health and a possible sizable move to balance out the roster to give Riley a very good chance to get one more title.

Herro will "only" be on the books for $5.7M in 2022-2023, so Miami will still have wiggle room to sign Oladipo to a significant contract if he shows enough next year and not be hit with as big of a tax bill if both were going to need to be signed.

Assuming Herro and Oladipo play well enough to get a payday, I expect Robinson to be the player sacrificed if Miami needs to put money towards other players at other positions. However, there are constantly serviceable bigs available for the minimum or for MLE-type money.

As far as Oladipo's free agency is concerned, I just don't see a scenario where San Antonio, Detroit, or Orlando offer Oladipo a significant contract given they are rebuilding teams. If Oladipo plays well, better teams will try to trade for him if they can't sign him outright. If Oladipo doens't play well, no one is going to throw big money at him.

[AirP.]

Herro will "only" be on the books for $5.7M in 2022-2023, so Miami will still have wiggle room to sign Oladipo to a significant contract if he shows enough next year and not be hit with as big of a tax bill if both were going to need to be signed.

Correct but you're now dealing with the tax to do this, is it that important to retain a Herro behind Butler, Lowry, Robinson and Oladipo while spending little to nothing on the front court outside of Bam or do you move him to feel better about that tax money having a much better balanced team?.

Assuming Herro and Oladipo play well enough to get a payday, I expect Robinson to be the player sacrificed if Miami needs to put money towards other players at other positions. However, there are constantly serviceable bigs available for the minimum or for MLE-type money.

1. I'm ok with Robison being sacrificed.
2. To me, it would be ridiculous to keep Butler, Lowry, Robinson, Oladipo and Herro having TWO large contracts on the bench while you "make due" with Bam and a near minimum player with near minimum players back them up... it's a horrible balance.\
3. It's a luxury to have so many highly paid guards while going into the tax... that is key because it not only takes you away from under the tax money but it starts your clock of paying the luxury tax to retain those contracts on the bench.

Starters and bench guys...
PG/SG/SF - Lowry, Butler, Oladipo, Robinson, Herro
PF/C - Bam, exception, min, min

It would be beyond dumb to do that because you're going to be getting horrible value for whoever doesn't play a lot. Now because of situations I believe one or both of Robinson and Herro will need to be moved for balance.

As far as Oladipo's free agency is concerned, I just don't see a scenario where San Antonio, Detroit, or Orlando offer Oladipo a significant contract given they are rebuilding teams. If Oladipo plays well, better teams will try to trade for him if they can't sign him outright. If Oladipo doens't play well, no one is going to throw big money at him.

If he doesn't look like he's going to be a good player by 2022-2023 season nobody needs to worry about his money, he can probably be retain for just a little or it's no big loss but I doubt that will be the situation.

Also... some teams will create room for next year. Just recently Charlotte was ready to just sign Hayward outright(Boston ended up getting them to do a sign and trade) because he was getting back to form at basically the same age as Oladipo currently is.

Things can change in a year, teams may reshuffle their decks or create cap room based off what happens this year.

[SA37]

Herro will "only" be on the books for $5.7M in 2022-2023, so Miami will still have wiggle room to sign Oladipo to a significant contract if he shows enough next year and not be hit with as big of a tax bill if both were going to need to be signed.

Correct but you're now dealing with the tax to do this, is it that important to retain a Herro behind Butler, Lowry, Robinson and Oladipo while spending little to nothing on the front court outside of Bam or do you move him to feel better about that tax money having a much better balanced team?.

Assuming Herro and Oladipo play well enough to get a payday, I expect Robinson to be the player sacrificed if Miami needs to put money towards other players at other positions. However, there are constantly serviceable bigs available for the minimum or for MLE-type money.

1. I'm ok with Robison being sacrificed.
2. To me, it would be ridiculous to keep Butler, Lowry, Robinson, Oladipo and Herro having TWO large contracts on the bench while you "make due" with Bam and a near minimum player with near minimum players back them up... it's a horrible balance.\
3. It's a luxury to have so many highly paid guards while going into the tax... that is key because it not only takes you away from under the tax money but it starts your clock of paying the luxury tax to retain those contracts on the bench.

Starters and bench guys...
PG/SG/SF - Lowry, Butler, Oladipo, Robinson, Herro
PF/C - Bam, exception, min, min

It would be beyond dumb to do that because you're going to be getting horrible value for whoever doesn't play a lot. Now because of situations I believe one or both of Robinson and Herro will need to be moved for balance.

In 2 years' time, Jimmy Butler will be 34 and Kyle Lowry will be 37. Presumably, Oladipo (31) and/or Herro (23) will need to take the reins from Lowry and Butler, who will (hopefully) have another ~2 all-star-ish seasons left. Not to mention, both Oladipo and Lowry's durability is not guaranteed and they'll likely need minutes restrictions and potentially need to be held out of back-to-backs or just simply given nights off for rest.

Unless his game evolves, the odd man out would likely be Duncan Robinson.

I do agree with you that Miami could absolutely use help up front, but good bigs are hard to acquire. Miami could potentially address this in free agency next summer (Serge Ibaka, Tristan Thompson, Nurkic, Valanciunus, Zeller, Thad Young, Harrell, Thomas Bryant). Via trade, probably the only big currently available that fits what Miami is probably looking for is Myles Turner, but I am not sure if Miami has anything Indiana would want. I am not sure if Marc Gasol has anything left in the tank, but he'd be worth a look if he and the Lakers decide part ways.

[Mk613]

Weird... Ira brings up something I've talked about for a while... Miami's may have to decide between Oladipo(free agent) or Tyler(extension).

But should Oladipo return to his previous form, it could create a Herro-vs.-Oladipo debate when it comes to the team’s salary structure going forward.

Read on Twitter

What Ira doesn't mention in this future possible debate is that it's not really Herro vs Oladipo, it's Herro with Oladipo leaving for nothing vs keeping Oladipo and moving Herro in a package. Miami's probably going into the tax next year unless they let Oladipo leave for nothing but I'd rather see Miami move Herro + Tucker + some smaller salaries to find a very good big to go next to Bam.

Would rather trade Robinson then Herro.. herro’s game is jus overall better. Robinson is to one dimensional and severally overpaid..

[AirP.]

Would rather trade Robinson then Herro.. herro’s game is jus overall better. Robinson is to one dimensional and severally overpaid..

I'm not sure Herro actually will help a team win. He can score so that's a given, it's the rest of his game, he's terrible on defense and he for some reason makes horrible passes when it doesn't need to happen which causes the offense to just go to #(it. It's why his ORTG - DRTG has been so horrible his first 2 years...
1st year - 103 ORTG, 112 DRTG = -9pts per 100
2nd year - 104 ORTG, 113 DRTG = -9pts per 100

Robinson I think has been figured out, he's still a great 3pt shooter but teams have enough video to know what to take away, hopefully with Lowry added to the mix he can get more good shots.
2st year - 122 ORTG, 113 DRGT = +9pts per 100
3rd year - 113 ORTG, 114 DRGT = -1pts per 100

I'm really not a fan of either, I hope for Miami to move both in the future, get another good starting PF/C and let the Heat develop their next batch of players to go along with Bam. Don't sleep on Strus, that quick release and isn't bothered by misses and may be an average defender possibly could make him into a great fit in Miami.

[Hallstar]

If Herro continues to develop, no way you trade him. I don't think people recognize how small this so called window of ours is. We're not a serious enough threat to be going all in when we're out there playing 1st option by committee.

[AirP.]

If Herro continues to develop, no way you trade him. I don't think people recognize how small this so called window of ours is. We're not a serious enough threat to be going all in when we're out there playing 1st option by committee.

You are way over-valuing a player who will quite possibly not be a regular starter his first 4 years of his NBA career, you can also include his 5th year as Miami(if they matched) will still have Lowry, Butler, 90 million dollar Robinson and quite possibly Oladipo in front of him. With at least 3 of those guys probably in front of him, do you think Miami may get out bid in keeping this backup in 2 years with Miami in the tax with Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo on the books? I think they will, even if they do want to keep him so you trade him in the next year for a younger front court player and/or some assets to continue to build around Bam in 3 years.