Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[Negrodamus]

The path to Ben Simmons becoming a Draymond-lite aka a playoff beast (that's a career 27% shooter from three) is much more realistic than Tobias Harris at the age of 30 re-inventing his game to become a non parasitic entity on winning.

I'd reckon if he keeps working hard and trying his best and reading a lot of books, maybe by 33 he could have a suitable handle for the modern game and not reliant on back to the basket. Or maybe he can re-work his jumper so he can get it off in space - which he struggles with mightily at the moment.

This is an amazing sentence as Ben is the same person he was when he was 18 years old and you're making fun of Tobias, someone who has already completely re-invented his game, for possibly continuing to improve on his game because he "reads books".

[76ciology]

Tobias is valuable with this team because we have a drought in perimeter scoring. While Ben is not valuable to us because we dont have any problems on defense.

The hidden humor in this post is that we suck at creation because Tobias can't do his job, while we're rock solid defensively because Ben can do his.

This is literally backwards.

We suck at creation because Ben Simmons, our "pg" can't do his job.

You're so backwards with this Simmons stuff. Simmons is trash, bro. How can't you see this. 11 ppg playoff trash.

Yup exactly.

The reason why you need a lot of scoring is because you are handicapped on offense with a Pg who can’t score, so you need other guys to make up for it. This is why Ive been pointing out that the way to go around it is by relentlessly adding 16-18ppg scorers on this team. Think of the dynamic of Rondo and the big 3 Celts squad.

A PG like Ben will only work IF you have an overflow on offense, this is the reason why Blazers, Wolves and Warriors wants him.

Replace Danny Green with another scorer. Then get another scorer to play with Maxey off the bench (this is why i focused on Milton at one point). You then would be forced to rely a lot on Ben’s intangibles like defense, versatility, extra points (transition) and facilitating.

[Kobblehead]

The path to Ben Simmons becoming a Draymond-lite aka a playoff beast

Not possible. So much of what makes Draymond successful is the engine/heart he's built with. Simmons is beta with no motor. The complete opposite, intangibly from Draymond.

He's to Draymond what Wiggins is to Jordan.

[76ciology]

In the context that both Ben and Tobi are playing for this team in the future, I say Tobi has higher upside. All you can look at is Tobi’s career trajectory and how he has played for our team in the last 3 seasons.

But in context of Ben playing for a team that is favorable to his strength like Wolves, Blazers, Cavs or Warriors, then I say Ben has the higher upside.

Value and potential is relative to context IMO

[stormi]

You know what's crazy? We also knew what Tobias was and he actually improved his game to become a creator in halfcourt offense and was quite a good defender last year, while Ben rested on his reputation and never tried to add anything to his game.

Oh brother. We're caping for the worst players ever here. The standards are on the floor.

The two of them have comparable advance stats

They don't though. Like eliminating biases and just viewing them categorically as two separate data points - Ben's impact aka: his box scores (including points, rebounds, assists, etc.) combined with his player impact (plus-minus stats) blows Harris' out of the water.

And the data is easily accessible

https://www.bball-index.com/my-playoff-lebron/

[stormi]

The path to Ben Simmons becoming a Draymond-lite aka a playoff beast

Not possible. So much of what makes Draymond successful is the engine/heart he's built with. Simmons is beta with no motor. The complete opposite, intangibly from Draymond.

He's to Draymond what Wiggins is to Jordan.

Shocked you pulled the pashun & desiyah card after you ran out of objectivities to post.

[stormi]

The path to Ben Simmons becoming a Draymond-lite aka a playoff beast (that's a career 27% shooter from three) is much more realistic than Tobias Harris at the age of 30 re-inventing his game to become a non parasitic entity on winning.

I'd reckon if he keeps working hard and trying his best and reading a lot of books, maybe by 33 he could have a suitable handle for the modern game and not reliant on back to the basket. Or maybe he can re-work his jumper so he can get it off in space - which he struggles with mightily at the moment.

This is an amazing sentence as Ben is the same person he was when he was 18 years old and you're making fun of Tobias, someone who has already completely re-invented his game, for possibly continuing to improve on his game because he "reads books".

If this is Tobias Harris after "completely re-invented his game" he needs to do it twice more.

[Kobblehead]

Simmons will only have value to a playoff team, postprime, when he's on a more reasonable contract ($15-18m). Then he can afford to just play defense and chip in 10 ppg off the very few transition buckets he can get in the playoffs and the occasional backdoor cut or putback.

As a $30m+ player that is expected to be a 2nd or 3rd banana offensively, he offers nothing. He's an active playoff liability.

[Negrodamus]

Oh brother. We're caping for the worst players ever here. The standards are on the floor.

The two of them have comparable advance stats

They don't though. Like eliminating biases and just viewing them categorically as two separate data points - Ben's impact aka: his box scores (including points, rebounds, assists, etc.) combined with his player impact (plus-minus stats) blows Harris' out of the water.

And the data is easily accessible

https://www.bball-index.com/my-playoff-lebron/

Thank you for this. I'm glad we signed Georges Niang since his "LEBRON" is better than Ben's and Tobias's. Should have traded Ben for Lowry when we had a chance. Would have been a complete ripoff deal for us.

[stormi]

Simmons blows, and yet still affects winning more than Tobias.

This. People think going at Tobias means Ben is alleviated or played perfectly fine.

He was bad, not as bad as some other players making 30Ms, but he can be better. For the 30 year old, unfortunately I think he's peaked.

[stormi]

The two of them have comparable advance stats

They don't though. Like eliminating biases and just viewing them categorically as two separate data points - Ben's impact aka: his box scores (including points, rebounds, assists, etc.) combined with his player impact (plus-minus stats) blows Harris' out of the water.

And the data is easily accessible

https://www.bball-index.com/my-playoff-lebron/

Thank you for this. I'm glad we signed Georges Niang since his "LEBRON" is better than Ben's and Tobias's. Should have traded Ben for Lowry when we had a chance. Would have been a complete ripoff deal for us.

The roles are listed for a reason to give comparative context. He's listed as a stationary shooter and played well in his role.

Bad attempt at discrediting an entire data-set because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[Kobblehead]

How can anyone put value in advanced metrics in 2021? The industry jumped the shark 5 years ago. I thought LeBron and Raptor was facetious when I first saw it. Then I realized they were being serious....

[stormi]

Mr. Kevin Durant isn't a shot creator because unassisted field goal percentage man one post above me

[Negrodamus]

They don't though. Like eliminating biases and just viewing them categorically as two separate data points - Ben's impact aka: his box scores (including points, rebounds, assists, etc.) combined with his player impact (plus-minus stats) blows Harris' out of the water.

And the data is easily accessible

https://www.bball-index.com/my-playoff-lebron/

Thank you for this. I'm glad we signed Georges Niang since his "LEBRON" is better than Ben's and Tobias's. Should have traded Ben for Lowry when we had a chance. Would have been a complete ripoff deal for us.

The roles are listed for a reason to give comparative context. He's listed as a stationary shooter and played well in his role.

Bad attempt at discrediting an entire data-set because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Maybe instead of posting a link like you're giving a mic drop, give context on how to interpret your metric since I'm unfamiliar with LEBRON... so it can fit your narrative.

[Kobblehead]

Best perimeter defenders in the NBA according to defensive RPM are Duncan Robinson (literal trash defender), Joe Harris (literal defensive liability), and Reggie Bullock (literal trash defender). Please with the fake stats and plus minus metrics. There's no value in that garbage. Just made up formulas.

[Slick SickSir]

Why do you guys continue engaging with this troll stormi?

HEs obvious as **** an australian simmon slurper. Has no fandom of the sixers at all. All he has done forever is deflect blame off ben on to others. Repeatedly.

Its not even a ya but.. its strait to ignore what is true about ben and blame everyone else.

He is the fan version of bitch boi simmons himself.

Tobias with a real spacing PG is a better player than tobias now. We are a good defense without simmons. Offense is 3x more important in todays nba than defense

Transition offense is the LEAST important trait in the playoffs of any

This guy is a troll. Ignore him

Trade trash ass simmons for ANYTHING and we will be better. Mccollum, sexton, brogdon.. any of them make us better

[stormi]

Thank you for this. I'm glad we signed Georges Niang since his "LEBRON" is better than Ben's and Tobias's. Should have traded Ben for Lowry when we had a chance. Would have been a complete ripoff deal for us.

The roles are listed for a reason to give comparative context. He's listed as a stationary shooter and played well in his role.

Bad attempt at discrediting an entire data-set because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Maybe instead of posting a link like you're giving a mic drop, give context on how to interpret your metric since I'm unfamiliar with LEBRON... so it can fit your narrative.

If you're interested about the breakdown of the metric that's been devised by employed NBA statisticians, it's all here

https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-introduction/?aiEnableCheckShortcode=true

Essentially a culmination of physical box-scores and luck adjusted on/off's to portray an individuals impact on winning.

If you wanted the breakdown on how it scores Harris vs Simmons I've done so in a prior thread.

So LEBRON tells us that Embiid has higher impact than expected, while Ben Simmons is overrated as usual, another proof that he is all flash with no substance.

What? Simmons grades out rather favorably.

A +1.80 from 2019-2021 which was higher than the LEBRON Devin Booker just put up for his 2021 finals run and some other notable names, and a +1.53 from 2016-2018.

If anything it was another dagger into displaying how unimpressive Tobias Harris is.

His highest 3 year stretch was a +0.97 from 2017-2019, which only encompasses his 2019 playoff run with us. He missed the playoffs the two prior years.

When you include 2020 (his 2018-2020 split) he scores out a -0.61. So he was abysmal vs Boston to take his 0.97 and turn his overall rating comfortably negative.

One more years worth of Tobias data, and three playoff runs in Philadelphia, 2019-2021; Tobias Harris scores a -1.48... (Ben: +1.80 over that same stretch). So he's literally getting worse with increased responsibility.

Role player on an inflated contract.

[76ciology]

Simmons will only have value to a playoff team, postprime, when he's on a more reasonable contract ($15-18m). Then he can afford to just play defense and chip in 10 ppg off the very few transition buckets he can get in the playoffs and the occasional backdoor cut or putback.

As a $30m+ player that is expected to be a 2nd or 3rd banana offensively, he offers nothing. He's an active playoff liability.

I think he can be a $30+M player on other teams.

Replace Kyrie with Ben. Whereas Ben plays with Harden and KD.

It’s really about context

[76ciology]

I also agree that advanced stats is BS. But it’s like the PCR test for covid. You’re gonna get false positives unless its with a diagnosis of a doctor. Same can be said on indicators for crypto or stocks.

For basketball. Think about this. Ben and Biid are paired a lot. While Tobi frequently plays without Biid.

If Tobi plays more with Biid, while Ben plays more without Biid, do you think Ben’s advanced numbers would be better?

Context matter and humans (eyetest) is still the best for context based value.

Now going a step further.. if Ben is traded for Dame. And then Tobi and Biid are paired more often while Dame carries the team without Biid, I do think Tobi’s numbers will be a lot better.

[Slick SickSir]

Simmons plays all his minutes with embiid while harris was usually the lone starter with 4 bench scrubs

Plus minus is trash. Embiid carried simmons like hes done his whole career

Anyone who cant watch simmons play for 10 minutes and come away with how putridly pathetic of a basketball player he is especially with the context of having 4 years since his debut is someone that should be banned

Athlete sure. Bball skill is ZERO

Playmaker being used to describe him is down right LAUGHABLE.

Dude 180 no scopes to covered players and hogs the ball waiting for guys off screens is **** any **** 12th man can do

He cant play in the PnR which is a necessity in the NBA and he CANT beat his man off the dribble and break down a defense because no one guards him

**** PATHETIC