Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[Negrodamus]

Wait so Ben is a Cut + Roll big and not a primary ballhandler? I guess he did play well for that role.

[stormi]

Tobias fails the eye-test spectacularly btw. No threes on volume, no playmaking, no shotcreation, no defending. Relies on awkward sk high floaters and has a tendency to brick it up layup wise when the games are on the line. Tremendous little game player.

[Kobblehead]

Fake metrics are trash. Plus minus stats are trash.

Only thing that matter to me are skillsets and production.

[76ciology]

Tobias fails the eye-test spectacularly btw. No threes on volume, no playmaking, no shotcreation, no defending. Relies on awkward sk high floaters and has a tendency to brick it up layup wise when the games are on the line. Tremendous little game player.

True. And i dont think anyone is saying that he’s a great scorer. I also complain on how unreliable he is on shooting 3s.

But still his value is still higher on this team than Ben, because of how this team is made up.

If Biid was Luka Doncic, then Ben would have more value than Tobi on this team. But we know on eyetest that both Ben and Biid’s fit are clunky on halfcourt.

Just my subjective opinion, i do think we all have different views on what a winning team looks like.

I know Ben can be so much better if he plays with KAT or with a high scoring backcourt duo.

[Slick SickSir]

Tobias has a 6'11 traffic cone taking up all his midrange space as does the other players on the team

Tobias is far from perfect but a 1000000x better basketball player with 100000x more bball skill than bitchboi

Remember when tobias was afraid of the ball? For 4 years strait? Remember when tobias couldnt even make a ft? Remember when tobias was a bitch in every sense of the word?

Ya me either

[stormi]

Wait so Ben is a Cut + Roll big and not a primary ballhandler? I guess he did play well for that role.

Yes, that's literally his role out of the halfcourt. And he's very good at it. He's a secondary playmaker out of stationary possessions and a cutter. In transition he's a lead-ballhandler and should be attacking the basket more, but he racks up assists because he's good at using his speed and size to create mismatches and open up looks for shooters. And then he's a defensive beast.

My thing with Tobias is, what's his role on a championship team alongside Joel Embiid in our salary cap world? Like I don't have ill-will in my heart towards this man. I just don't think he provides enough on either side of the ball for me to view him as anything other than replacement level. If he had the exact same game but was shooting 7 threes per game instead of only 3 and had a more traditional release that made him able to hit contested difficult shots from deep then I'd view him a lot differently. He'd be like when Kevin Love was good - aka a third cog on a championship team.

[Slick SickSir]

If a player played like ben in a pickup game I would curse his ass out and tell them to never come to that court again.

[Slick SickSir]

I literally think Im more looking forward to bens pathetic ass stans being gone from this team more than I am the actual bitchboi cancer ben himself

[Kobblehead]

Tobias fails the eye-test spectacularly btw. No threes on volume, no playmaking, no shotcreation, no defending. Relies on awkward sk high floaters and has a tendency to brick it up layup wise when the games are on the line. Tremendous little game player.

Told ya'll. These dudes have outdated scouting reports.

Dude just said Harris provides no shotcreation or playmaking but he was our least assisted scorer on the entire team and had a 17.6% assist percentage this year.

Update your scouting report, it's embarrassing to be this offbase.

[stormi]

Tobias fails the eye-test spectacularly btw. No threes on volume, no playmaking, no shotcreation, no defending. Relies on awkward sk high floaters and has a tendency to brick it up layup wise when the games are on the line. Tremendous little game player.

Told ya'll. These dudes have outdated scouting reports.

Dude just said Harris provides no shotcreation or playmaking but he was our least assisted scorer on the entire team and had a 17.6% assist percentage this year.

Update your scouting report, it's embarrassing to be this offbase.

Tobias Harris is a shot creator, but Kevin Durant isn't.

And your dream backcourt is Coby White and Zach Lavine.

We know you're Mr. Hipster, we don't care.

[VDT]

People blame Simmons for everything because of their high expectations. Because otherwise he is a fine player. He does a lot of useful things well but also has some very obvious weaknesses. The Sixers need him to be better to win the title but the same could be said for every player because the Sixers have been consistently underachieving in the postseason with or without Simmons. If anything, the Sixers look good only when Simmons can create a lot of shots for his teammates. Also, trashing Simmons and then expecting to get a good player for him makes no sense.

[Negrodamus]

Wait so Ben is a Cut + Roll big and not a primary ballhandler? I guess he did play well for that role.

Yes, that's literally his role out of the halfcourt. And he's very good at it. He's a secondary playmaker out of stationary possessions and a cutter. In transition he's a lead-ballhandler and should be attacking the basket more, but he racks up assists because he's good at using his speed and size to create mismatches and open up looks for shooters. And then he's a defensive beast.

My thing with Tobias is, what's his role on a championship team alongside Joel Embiid in our salary cap world? Like I don't have ill-will in my heart towards this man. I just don't think he provides enough on either side of the ball for me to view him as replacement level. If he had the exact same game but was shooting 7 threes per game instead of only 3 and had a more traditional release that made him able to hit contested difficult shots from deep then I'd view him a lot differently. He'd be like when Kevin Love was good - aka a third cog on a championship team.

No, sorry, it doesn't say he's a Secondary Handler nor does it say he's a Shot Creator, two categories that exist according to the LEBRON metric and ones he doesn't fall under. He is competing again the Willie Cauley Steins, Ivcas Zubacs, and Rudy Goberts of the NBA. In that context, yes he's good, but I'm not sure those guys are $33 mil a year. Nice role players though.

If Georges Niang isn't to be compared to Ben, then Ben shouldn't receive the same praise as actual point guards or shot creators if he's a "Roll + Cut Big"

[stormi]

Wait so Ben is a Cut + Roll big and not a primary ballhandler? I guess he did play well for that role.

Yes, that's literally his role out of the halfcourt. And he's very good at it. He's a secondary playmaker out of stationary possessions and a cutter. In transition he's a lead-ballhandler and should be attacking the basket more, but he racks up assists because he's good at using his speed and size to create mismatches and open up looks for shooters. And then he's a defensive beast.

My thing with Tobias is, what's his role on a championship team alongside Joel Embiid in our salary cap world? Like I don't have ill-will in my heart towards this man. I just don't think he provides enough on either side of the ball for me to view him as replacement level. If he had the exact same game but was shooting 7 threes per game instead of only 3 and had a more traditional release that made him able to hit contested difficult shots from deep then I'd view him a lot differently. He'd be like when Kevin Love was good - aka a third cog on a championship team.

No, sorry, it doesn't say he's a Secondary Handler nor does it say he's a Shot Creator, two categories that exist according to the LEBRON metric and ones he doesn't fall under. He is competing again the Willie Cauley Steins, Ivcas Zubacs, and Rudy Goberts of the NBA. In that context, yes he's good, but I'm not sure those guys are $33 mil a year. Nice role players though.

If Georges Niang isn't to be compared to Ben, then Ben shouldn't receive the same praise as actual point guards or shot creators if he's a "Roll + Cut Big"

He's a transition playmaker + screen & roller + slasher



I asked a pretty general question about Harris, but you aren't trying to have an actual discussion.

[Negrodamus]

Yes, that's literally his role out of the halfcourt. And he's very good at it. He's a secondary playmaker out of stationary possessions and a cutter. In transition he's a lead-ballhandler and should be attacking the basket more, but he racks up assists because he's good at using his speed and size to create mismatches and open up looks for shooters. And then he's a defensive beast.

My thing with Tobias is, what's his role on a championship team alongside Joel Embiid in our salary cap world? Like I don't have ill-will in my heart towards this man. I just don't think he provides enough on either side of the ball for me to view him as replacement level. If he had the exact same game but was shooting 7 threes per game instead of only 3 and had a more traditional release that made him able to hit contested difficult shots from deep then I'd view him a lot differently. He'd be like when Kevin Love was good - aka a third cog on a championship team.

No, sorry, it doesn't say he's a Secondary Handler nor does it say he's a Shot Creator, two categories that exist according to the LEBRON metric and ones he doesn't fall under. He is competing again the Willie Cauley Steins, Ivcas Zubacs, and Rudy Goberts of the NBA. In that context, yes he's good, but I'm not sure those guys are $33 mil a year. Nice role players though.

If Georges Niang isn't to be compared to Ben, then Ben shouldn't receive the same praise as actual point guards or shot creators if he's a "Roll + Cut Big"

He's a transition playmaker, + screen & roller + slasher

Maybe back in 2016-2018 when he was fooling the NBA, but the "NBA statisticians" wised up and labeled him correctly these past two years:

[stormi]

No, sorry, it doesn't say he's a Secondary Handler nor does it say he's a Shot Creator, two categories that exist according to the LEBRON metric and ones he doesn't fall under. He is competing again the Willie Cauley Steins, Ivcas Zubacs, and Rudy Goberts of the NBA. In that context, yes he's good, but I'm not sure those guys are $33 mil a year. Nice role players though.

If Georges Niang isn't to be compared to Ben, then Ben shouldn't receive the same praise as actual point guards or shot creators if he's a "Roll + Cut Big"

He's a transition playmaker, + screen & roller + slasher

Maybe back in 2016-2018 when he was fooling the NBA, but the "NBA statisticians" wised up and labeled him correctly these past two years:

So... Ben is younger, and a net neutral offensive player & defensive beast, while being a knucklehead going through some of the worst stretches of basketball he'll likely ever play.

And Tobias is a washed up 30 year old that's toxic as a ballhandler and a sieve defensively.



I think we're on the same page, yea.

[Negrodamus]

He's a transition playmaker, + screen & roller + slasher

Maybe back in 2016-2018 when he was fooling the NBA, but the "NBA statisticians" wised up and labeled him correctly these past two years:

So... Ben is younger, better in his role and has a way higher ceiling?



I think we're on the same page, yea.

Oh man, that's what you gleaned from this? Lol. Anyway, we have the best "LEBRON" big/overall player in the game, maybe we can trade Ben for an actual Creator or Ball Handler so we don't need to rely on Tobias to do any creating and actually enhances our best player's game. We can get Tobias back to his final year with the Clippers/first year with Sixers form when we had an actual good creator in Jimmy Butler and Tobi was a .300+ 3Pr player.

[Negrodamus]

BTW, Bradley Beal is one of the worst slashers/players in the game according to this metric, just so we're clear.

[Kobblehead]

One thing I agree with that made up metric, then.

Because Bradley Beal and Kevin Durant are two of the fakest offensive superstars in the league! Assisted bucket scorers that can't create off the dribble or cook defenders.

[stormi]

Maybe back in 2016-2018 when he was fooling the NBA, but the "NBA statisticians" wised up and labeled him correctly these past two years:

So... Ben is younger, better in his role and has a way higher ceiling?



I think we're on the same page, yea.

Oh man, that's what you gleaned from this? Lol. Anyway, we have the best "LEBRON" big/overall player in the game, maybe we can trade Ben for an actual Creator or Ball Handler so we don't need to rely on Tobias to do any creating and actually enhances our best player's game. We can get Tobias back to his final year with the Clippers/first year with Sixers form when we had an actual good creator in Jimmy Butler and Tobi was a .300+ 3Pr player.

The bolded is idealistic.

But then it goes back to the initial predicament with Harris. He's a 'shot creator' that isn't actually reliable at creating shots.

He's a roleplayer and should be viewed as such around here.

[Negrodamus]

So... Ben is younger, better in his role and has a way higher ceiling?



I think we're on the same page, yea.

Oh man, that's what you gleaned from this? Lol. Anyway, we have the best "LEBRON" big/overall player in the game, maybe we can trade Ben for an actual Creator or Ball Handler so we don't need to rely on Tobias to do any creating and actually enhances our best player's game. We can get Tobias back to his final year with the Clippers/first year with Sixers form when we had an actual good creator in Jimmy Butler and Tobi was a .300+ 3Pr player.

The bolded is idealistic.

But then it goes back to the initial predicament with Harris. He's a 'shot creator' that isn't actually reliable at creating shots.

He's a roleplayer and should be viewed as such around here.

Why are we assigning so much value to a Roll and Cut big who continuously insists he's a point guard?

Also, peep Tobias's rank when he wasn't forced to be the primary creator on offense for the Sixers. He's being forced to do more because we don't have a point guard or a creator.

Once we get someone competent at that position, he'll return to his 60 TS%, .30+ 3PAr, and .25+ FTr.