Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[gambitx777]

I am absolutely sick of people going. But he's such a great defender.
He has such issues in the other accounts of the game it's hard to wanna give anything for him.
You make him a center which is almost what he has to be. Ok how is he any different than Drummond. He can't shoot. He can't hit FT and when the games on the line unless you have 4 shoots with him if he's out of position you're ****.
I give the kid a lot of hate I hope he grows and learns as a person and a player. But I don't think that's gonna happen. I wouldn't move Rui, Kuz, or deni for him.

I would give up Trez, bertans and Bryant that's about it. And other teams are gonna be fooled Into bigger trade offers than that.

If the king's don't trade fox for him I'll be shook.

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[payitforward]

Simmons is a tremendous player. & has been from the get-go. Most of what's written about him is nonsense.

Let's start with the idea that he's a "problem" on offense, b/c he "can't shoot." BS.

The truth is, Simmons produces about the same number of points per 40 minutes as an average NBA point guard, but he produces them at well above average efficiency. He uses fewer possessions to score those points, IOW, meaning that there are more possessions for other Sixers to turn into points. In short, Ben Simmons is a substantially better than average scorer for an NBA point guard.

Of course there's more to offense than individual scoring numbers & efficiency. Simmons also gets more than 2.5 times the offensive rebounds of an average PG -- giving his team more chances to score. &, he also gets 30% more assists than average for an NBA point guard.

As a rookie, Ben Simmons was easily the 3d best PG in the game, behind CP & Steph. The following 2 years he was even better. Last year was an off year for Simmons. Once again a couple of guys posted better numbers than he did. Then again... did they have the defensive impact he had?

I said I didn't want Simmons here, & I don't. But, it's not because of the way he plays. It's the amount of pointless kerfluffle that surrounds him, which I don't find entertaining. He's tremendously productive; he'd make us a lot better. I still don't want him.

Btw, if Philly dumps him, they'll be a worse team this year. Significantly worse.

Saying that Simmons' piss-poor shooting is a "problem" is not BS. It's true. Yes, Ben is "a substantially better than average scorer for an NBA point guard." But his inability to shoot from outside 3 feet--or make FTs--is a problem. Both things can be true, you know.

For sure, Simmons would be an even better player if he had a reliable jump shot -- not to mention a 3-point shot! But, of course, any player would be better if he did any particular part of the game better than he currently does.

Nonetheless, overall, taking into account all the productive activities a player engages in on the basketball court, Ben Simmons is, without any doubt, one of the elite players in the league.

For example, as a 21-year-old rookie, Simmons was better by far than John Wall ever was in any season of his career. As a rookie he was also better than Bradley Beal has ever been in any season of his career.

[payitforward]

I am absolutely sick of people going. But he's such a great defender.
He has such issues in the other accounts of the game it's hard to wanna give anything for him.
You make him a center which is almost what he has to be. Ok how is he any different than Drummond. He can't shoot. He can't hit FT and when the games on the line unless you have 4 shoots with him if he's out of position you're ****.
I give the kid a lot of hate I hope he grows and learns as a person and a player. But I don't think that's gonna happen. I wouldn't move Rui, Kuz, or deni for him.

I would give up Trez, bertans and Bryant that's about it. And other teams are gonna be fooled Into bigger trade offers than that.

If the king's don't trade fox for him I'll be shook.

This is classic. Not only is it wrong about Simmons, it's wrong about the players on our team as well!

Both Montrezl Harrell & Thomas Bryant, whom you would give, are substantially better than Kuzma, Rui or Deni, the guys you wouldn't give, have been in their careers so far.

[Ruzious]

I am absolutely sick of people going. But he's such a great defender.
He has such issues in the other accounts of the game it's hard to wanna give anything for him.
You make him a center which is almost what he has to be. Ok how is he any different than Drummond. He can't shoot. He can't hit FT and when the games on the line unless you have 4 shoots with him if he's out of position you're ****.
I give the kid a lot of hate I hope he grows and learns as a person and a player. But I don't think that's gonna happen. I wouldn't move Rui, Kuz, or deni for him.

I would give up Trez, bertans and Bryant that's about it. And other teams are gonna be fooled Into bigger trade offers than that.

If the king's don't trade fox for him I'll be shook.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Right... those people who are honest about his defense are horrible! And the folks that focus at his ball-handling and passing for a 6'11 240 lber being the best in the world for someone his size - how outrageous are they? It's like they think he's helped Philly win, and how crazy is that? Just because they were one of the historically bad teams before he got there... and since he started playing, they went from 28-54 to 52-30, and then 51-31, and then 43-30, and then 49-23... the Wiz did better than that... in the 1970's... maybe 1 time. There must be plenty of players who've won 63% of their regular season games at age 25 - while starting every single game they've played in and being their team's 2nd best player... or maybe there aren't? Butbutbut... he's not as good as Giannis! Ah, well there ya have it. If he's not as good as Giannis, who needs him.

[Kanyewest]

I dunno what would entice Philly but Morey is getting put in a no win situation and teams are just waiting to pounce. I don't think Minnesota, Cleveland or Sacramento is offering anything Philly wants. Philly fans seem in denial but an Edwards, Fox or even Kuminga/Moody package seems farfetched. Seems more like Malik Beasley or Buddy Hield is what's being offered with a pick & filler.

If we wanted to be in the mix we could be given the sheer depth we have - well, I believe that even if it isn't true. I would love for Simmons to be our starting PF. But yes, I think that Philly would like a replacement starting PG. In this case, waiting wasn't the right move.

I'd like to have him - though I'm not sure what position I'd want him at. His agent, Rich Paul, must be driving 76ers fans nuts:

Read on Twitter

Nerlens Noel lawsuit against Rich Paul has involved the 76ers telling the court that Paul purposefully withheld offers from his client Noel when Paul didn't answer voicemail. Anyways, not sure why it would be in Maxey's best interest to hold out given that he's under contract for potentially 3 more season under his rookie contract.

[Ruzious]

If we wanted to be in the mix we could be given the sheer depth we have - well, I believe that even if it isn't true. I would love for Simmons to be our starting PF. But yes, I think that Philly would like a replacement starting PG. In this case, waiting wasn't the right move.

I'd like to have him - though I'm not sure what position I'd want him at. His agent, Rich Paul, must be driving 76ers fans nuts:

Read on Twitter

Nerlens Noel lawsuit against Rich Paul has involved the 76ers telling the court that Paul purposefully withheld offers from his client Noel when Paul didn't answer voicemail. Anyways, not sure why it would be in Maxey's best interest to hold out given that he's under contract for potentially 3 more season under his rookie contract.

It now sounds very unlikely that Maxey will be traded. That never made sense, imo, and he's happy there.

[Ruzious]

We should think of consolidation trade targets - players that we would give up 2 or 3 players to get 1. My fave target is Miles Bridges. Who you got?

[payitforward]

I'd love to have Bridges. But, how...?

Assume that we are not trading Rui... period! ...not happening. He's too valuable on the marketing front. Personally, I don't think it would be smart to trade Harrell either -- we don't know when Bryant will be back or whether he'll have lost something, & we cannot assume heavy minutes for Gafford either.

Can we trade KCP? We're short on guards. I guess if it really were a consolidation trade, then we could bring back Mathews. Somehow, btw, I feel there must be some kind of plan to bring him back -- otherwise, he'd have been signed by someone.

If we are willing to trade Deni then some kind of deal would be possible. But that's not a good look. Kuzma certainly doesn't pull Bridges on his own. Or even with Davis....

[pcbothwel]

Agreed. And why would the Hornets do that?
1) They have 16 players under contract, so trading a a quarter for a few dimes and nickels makes no sense
2) Their top 3 players other than Bridges are locked up for the next 3 years (Ball, Hayward, Rozier)
3) They arent tanking as they have their franchise draft pick (Ball), and just traded their 2022 pick for Kai Jones

We simply wont know where the opportunities are until the deadline, but I doubt the Hornets end up falling apart and selling. We need a disgruntled star and/or flailing team. Simmons is a great one, but it looks like he's going to moved in the coming weeks.

[gambitx777]

I'm not backing off my opinion of Simmons. I don't think anytrade made for him is gonna go as well as any one thinks.

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[Dat2U]

I'm not backing off my opinion of Simmons. I don't think anytrade made for him is gonna go as well as any one thinks.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Your comparing him to Andre Drummond. I don't think anything else needs to be said.

[dckingsfan]

We should think of consolidation trade targets - players that we would give up 2 or 3 players to get 1. My fave target is Miles Bridges. Who you got?

I would put Wood on the list. But I would rather have Bridges over Wood.

[nate33]

We should think of consolidation trade targets - players that we would give up 2 or 3 players to get 1. My fave target is Miles Bridges. Who you got?

A guy like Bridges doesn't seem like a reasonable target because his salary is so small. We'd have trouble packaging two guys equaling that salary.

I figure a consolidation trade would inevitably result in us getting back an expensive player, like maybe sending out two $13M guys and getting back one $26M guy who is a bit better than either of the $13M guys.

A guy that might make some sense is Gordon Hayward. Charlotte acquired him to be a key playmaker before realizing that Lamelo Ball was already an NBA-ready PG. They might now want to hand over the keys to Lamelo and let him develop alongside younger teammates. He makes sense for us because he is a pure SF and his playmaking and shooting ability will complement Beal and Dinwiddie nicely.

The question is, what is the ideal package? Salarywise, a package like Bertans + Harrell + Avdija matches perfectly. I'm not really sure I want to give up Avdija, but I'm not sure Charlotte would do the trade for just Bertans and Harrell. It would really solve the log jam at forward and center though. Our remaining lineup would look something like this:

PG Dinwiddie/Holiday
SG Beal/KCP
SF Hayward/Kispert
PF Hachimura/Kuzma
C Gafford/Bryant

End of bench: Neto, Mathews(?), Todd, Gill, Huff(?)

The trade results in a pretty solid pecking order. The end of the bench guys won't really expect much playing time. Kispert gets a regular spot in the rotation to develop. Hachimura and Kuzma push each other to earn minutes. KCP and Hayward can each play up a position if necessary to cover for injuries.

I'm not thrilled about giving up a young guy like Avdija who would be part of our future, but I think this is what a consolidation trade would look like. If Hayward is healthy (a big if), that looks like a 4th or 5th seed to me.

[pcbothwel]

Interesting Nate. Hayward is a good example of a feasible target because his age puts him way off with a 20 y/o Ball.
Im going through the teams, and its really a sellers market. So many teams that look like they should be in the "We might sell parts and compete later", appear to be tired of rebuilding and are trying to make a run: Bulls, NYK, Hornets, Kings, Twolves

Teams that could sell off players, but are poor fits due to them trying to move off guards: PDX, Magic & Cavs

To me, it just leaves the Pistons, Rockets, Pacers, Grizzlies, and Pelicans. Grant, Christian Wood, Brogdon, Kyle Anderson, Ingram.
Ingram is probably a poor fit along side Dinwiddie-Beal-Rui, and I question Woods overall effect on winning.
Its boring, but I actually think Anderson would be a great get if his new found shooting is real. He could have a 28-32 type career that Ingles has had, and I think he is a perfect fit with this team. Also, he's a pending FA so I think he could be had for relatively cheap.


Possible surprise teams that could underwhelm and then sell: Spurs.
They have Murray, White, Walker, Jones, and Keldon Johnson. Then proceeded to draft Vassell and Primo as wings in the lotto in back to back drafts. Something has to give there.

[payitforward]

Wow...

I'd say the last thing we need is someone like Gordon Hayward -- 31 years old, entering his 12th season, with $91m in salary guaranteed over the next 3 seasons. I'm eager to trade Bertans but not for yet another boat anchor contract. Especially not at the cost of the guy we picked #9 a year ago.

Kyle Anderson would make more sense, but I think Memphis will have no interest whatever in trading him, as he is a bargain for what he makes. Unless we offered either Avdija or Bryant, that is, in which case they'd snap it up. But I think Tommy is too smart to make a move like that.

Harrell for Anderson would work. Might balance the roster better (tho for the short term we'd need to sign a cheap backup center somehow).

I think Ruzious was hoping to pick up a young player with terrific development so far & the likelihood of more. That would be good.

[dckingsfan]

I am absolutely sick of people going. But he's such a great defender.
He has such issues in the other accounts of the game it's hard to wanna give anything for him.
You make him a center which is almost what he has to be. Ok how is he any different than Drummond. He can't shoot. He can't hit FT and when the games on the line unless you have 4 shoots with him if he's out of position you're ****.
I give the kid a lot of hate I hope he grows and learns as a person and a player. But I don't think that's gonna happen. I wouldn't move Rui, Kuz, or deni for him.

I would give up Trez, bertans and Bryant that's about it. And other teams are gonna be fooled Into bigger trade offers than that.

If the king's don't trade fox for him I'll be shook.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Right... those people who are honest about his defense are horrible! And the folks that focus at his ball-handling and passing for a 6'11 240 lber being the best in the world for someone his size - how outrageous are they? It's like they think he's helped Philly win, and how crazy is that? Just because they were one of the historically bad teams before he got there... and since he started playing, they went from 28-54 to 52-30, and then 51-31, and then 43-30, and then 49-23... the Wiz did better than that... in the 1970's... maybe 1 time. There must be plenty of players who've won 63% of their regular season games at age 25 - while starting every single game they've played in and being their team's 2nd best player... or maybe there aren't? Butbutbut... he's not as good as Giannis! Ah, well there ya have it. If he's not as good as Giannis, who needs him.

Or said another way...

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/264001/If-The-76ers-Lose-Ben-Simmons-They-Become-More-Conventional-With-Fewer-Possibilities

[Dat2U]

I am absolutely sick of people going. But he's such a great defender.
He has such issues in the other accounts of the game it's hard to wanna give anything for him.
You make him a center which is almost what he has to be. Ok how is he any different than Drummond. He can't shoot. He can't hit FT and when the games on the line unless you have 4 shoots with him if he's out of position you're ****.
I give the kid a lot of hate I hope he grows and learns as a person and a player. But I don't think that's gonna happen. I wouldn't move Rui, Kuz, or deni for him.

I would give up Trez, bertans and Bryant that's about it. And other teams are gonna be fooled Into bigger trade offers than that.

If the king's don't trade fox for him I'll be shook.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Right... those people who are honest about his defense are horrible! And the folks that focus at his ball-handling and passing for a 6'11 240 lber being the best in the world for someone his size - how outrageous are they? It's like they think he's helped Philly win, and how crazy is that? Just because they were one of the historically bad teams before he got there... and since he started playing, they went from 28-54 to 52-30, and then 51-31, and then 43-30, and then 49-23... the Wiz did better than that... in the 1970's... maybe 1 time. There must be plenty of players who've won 63% of their regular season games at age 25 - while starting every single game they've played in and being their team's 2nd best player... or maybe there aren't? Butbutbut... he's not as good as Giannis! Ah, well there ya have it. If he's not as good as Giannis, who needs him.

Or said another way...

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/264001/If-The-76ers-Lose-Ben-Simmons-They-Become-More-Conventional-With-Fewer-Possibilities

I wished we would have held off on trading Russ. Philly clearly can't get anything but role players right now and desperately needs a shot creator in return. It's a situation where some team is going to benefit greatly from Philly's misery.

The moment Philly trades Ben, they are no longer a contender.

[nate33]

Wow...

I'd say the last thing we need is someone like Gordon Hayward -- 31 years old, entering his 12th season, with $91m in salary guaranteed over the next 3 seasons. I'm eager to trade Bertans but not for yet another boat anchor contract. Especially not at the cost of the guy we picked #9 a year ago.

Kyle Anderson would make more sense, but I think Memphis will have no interest whatever in trading him, as he is a bargain for what he makes. Unless we offered either Avdija or Bryant, that is, in which case they'd snap it up. But I think Tommy is too smart to make a move like that.

Harrell for Anderson would work. Might balance the roster better (tho for the short term we'd need to sign a cheap backup center somehow).

I think Ruzious was hoping to pick up a young player with terrific development so far & the likelihood of more. That would be good.

I'd rather aim for a younger player too. I was proposing Hayward under the premise that we need a "consolidation trade" where we combine our abundance of depth for a slightly better player.

Surely, the better option is to go younger and find guys who will better in three years than they are now.

[payitforward]

If I thought adding Hayward meant that we could contend, I'd be all over it. In that case, in fact, we are so deep in forwards I'd trade both Rui & Deni & Kispert too.

&, thing is, we do look awfully good on paper! Every time I look at player history/projections for this roster we seem to be knocking on the door of 50 wins! But... "let's actually see it first," I tell myself!

[Ruzious]

Here's a trade getting us Miles Bridges - sort of sneaking in the backway of a major trade between Philly and Charlotte so nobody notices Tommy pulled a fast one:

We get Miles Bridges (5.4) and Paul Reed (1.5) for Corey Kispert (3.4) and Deni Avdija (4.7).

Charlotte gets Ben Simmons (33.0) and Corey Kispert (3.4) for Gordon Hayward (29.9) and Miles Bridges (5.4).

Philly gets Gordon Hayward (29.9) and Deni Avdija (4.7) for Ben Simmons (33.0) and Paul Reed (1.5).

Washington - gets a dynamic up and coming 3 - improving their weakest position and making them a team that can get 45 plus wins this season and can gradually develop into a future star. They also get a young developmental PF/smallball center in Reed.

Charlotte - gets a needed star in Simmons who plays wherever he's needed the most. It's ok that he's playing with a PG. Plus they get a deadeye 3 point shooter to help their spacing and offset Simmons 1 weakness.

Philly - gets a shooter/creator at the 3 who they can count on for roughly 20/5/5 every game, made 41.5% of his 3's, and helps in their win now mode - along with a young 6'10ish play-making swing forward they can develop. That's not full value for Simmons, but they can't expect to get full value, and this gives them a chance to stay a contender without the drama. Oh, and Hayward's much better than whatever Pif will say. You can turn the volume down when he inevitably trashes him again.