Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[sixers hoops]

Then why is the price so high to obtain him ?

My opinion has no impact on the price to obtain Ben Simmons

Understood. It just seems like your opinion is shared by a good cross section of 76er fans. I’m in a very small minority of Warriors fans that would love to get the guy. We have the young players that might be able to help you nab a 2nd star by the deadline if thats the route you end up going. The initial offer was just way to high though

I think he would be a great fit in GS. He is an excellent, switchable defender, can run the floor with any big, and is excellent ball handler and passer in transition. Even with no improvement to his game he has the skills to be a good big. If they could develop him in the halfcourt, it would be a steal.

In the halfcourt offense, he can basically just rebound and get easy baskets around the rim, but he couldn’t even do that against the Hawks. If he didn’t develop his free throw phobia, he is an excellent option to post-up, find open cutters and shooters, or use his speed and ballhandling ability to get to the rim himself. He even has potential as a very good roll man working with someone like Steph.

Ultimately, I prefer the Sixers try these things, but I think it’s much more feasible surrounded by Steph/Klay, Durant/Harden, Booker/Paul, etc, as opposed to Embiid and Tobias. We want Embiid in the post and Tobias isn’t much of a willing outside shooter, so to develop Ben as a post player leaves us with a bunch of role players on the perimeter. Elton Brand constructed this team horribly. And the cherry on the top was maxing out Horford as our fourth max big.

[Stanford]

My opinion has no impact on the price to obtain Ben Simmons

Don’t underrate that Standford education.

He didnt finish his school there just to be doubted by random guys on realgm

Yeah! part of that

[eyeatoma]

I think Ben Simmons has traumatized people into thinking that not-great shooters are useless in the halfcourt when it's really just Ben SImmons.

Exactly. So many fans don't fundamentally understand the game of basketball. In the most simple explanation, scoring is about shaking your defender and getting a clean look (whether getting all the way to the rim for a dunk/layup or generating an uncontested jumpshot for yourself).

Ben Simmons #1 problem has always been that he can't score off the dribble. The shooting thing is only accented because it means he's useless both on and off the ball.

Nobody would utter a single complaint if he was DeMar Derozan offensively. He'd be among the best players in the NBA if that were the case, when combined with his elite defense. He'd be a 6'10" Dwayne Wade.

Fox had a fg % of .482 from 10-16 ft and .362 from three last year. Career wise he is .408 from that distance with previous years of 10-16 feet being .336, .392, and .391

That's pretty bad except for last year. So I guess we'll see if he actually made growth there.

His 3-10 ft. Fg% is .398 for his career and .426 for last year. At the rim he was good.

He lives off transition and has made some improvement in the half court. I'd say at this point he's about average. He's not an ideal fit next to Jo as he still does not effectively spread the floor. Better than Ben, but the bar there is pretty low.

If we get Fox we have to get rid of Tobi.

Any response to Zion and Simmons? I don't see the Pels doing that deal.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[FlyingArrow]

For all his flaws, I'd rather see Simmons with the Sixers than any of the other packages that have been floated around and that seem likely. There are a few that sound good, but they are also the ones that seem unlikely to happen based on the other team.

[Black Mage]

I think Ben Simmons has traumatized people into thinking that not-great shooters are useless in the halfcourt when it's really just Ben SImmons.

It's another weakness of Ben's that gets overlooked. His handle and ability to break down a defender are lackluster. Really, his offensive skills, displayed so far in the NBA, are barely beyond college level at best.

[Black Mage]

And even when he gets to the basket on speed and size alone, he has no ability to finish over or around anyone. He stinks.

Then why is the price so high to obtain him ? I happen to think he is a better player than Draymond Green and I wouldn’t say he stinks. What gives?

His weaknesses are awful for the structure of this team. On a team like the Warriors, his weaknesses are less glaring and his benefits are highlighted even more.

[Kobblehead]

For all his flaws, I'd rather see Simmons with the Sixers than any of the other packages that have been floated around and that seem likely. There are a few that sound good, but they are also the ones that seem unlikely to happen based on the other team.

Outside of a Zach Ertz-like relationship repair, it appears that the ship has sailed.

[RedSalsa]

For all his flaws, I'd rather see Simmons with the Sixers than any of the other packages that have been floated around and that seem likely. There are a few that sound good, but they are also the ones that seem unlikely to happen based on the other team.

Outside of a Zach Ertz-like relationship repair, it appears that the ship has sailed.

Concur!

His flaws far outweigh his strengths when it comes playoff time. I think even a player perceived a lesser value will help more in long run in the playoffs. You simply cannot play four on five on the offensive of end of the court.

[BNelley24]

Agreed, as I’ve stated multiple times in this thread. The best outcome would be for us to have him hold out close to the trade deadline. The amount of deals available then would be substantially better. The problem is does Morey and the owners have the balls to allow that to happen? The pressure from media and players association would be enormous. I say screw it. At some point teams have to stand up for themselves. Guy is paid 40 mil a year and can’t shoot a jumper outside of the FT line. He can sit in his La mansion for as long as it takes.

Anyone expecting him to actually play another game for us is out of the loop. There wasn’t a chance he’d ever suit up for us ever again after game 7.

[DCasey91]

There's like 5 Ben Simmons trade threads and I've been posting regularly in all of them. If you want to see then many trade proposals I've made, read through them.

Dude, 99 percent of your posts are about how the player won't work on this team. If you think Derrick White and Murray are the answer for this team, you're beyond hopeless.

Please enlighten the board with your realistic trade that will make this team a title contender. SGA? Yeah, we're not getting him. Next?

What are you crying about, exactly? Me accurately describing Collin Sexton's game? LOL

The only answers for this team that I've proposed are Fox and Ingram. Similarly aged players to Simmons that are max players. Another, less realistic option would be Donovan Mitchell.

So Ingram it is then which I agree with. Circumvent and subversion.

[sixers4real]

So Kobble wants Fox on Ingram without losing any draft picks, if Kings and Pelicans say no, any other trade is bad and Morey sucks

[sixers hoops]

For all his flaws, I'd rather see Simmons with the Sixers than any of the other packages that have been floated around and that seem likely. There are a few that sound good, but they are also the ones that seem unlikely to happen based on the other team.

Outside of a Zach Ertz-like relationship repair, it appears that the ship has sailed.

Yeah, and they really don’t want to keep him. They just want him to play ball and be good until they get a good trade. And he played so poorly, he doesn’t want to show his face here ever again. Klutch is in a bad situation. The Maxey angle backfired on them. Their only leverage is a holdout, which costs him money and saves Sixers money. However, as multiple people mentioned, does ownership have the stomach to let him sit out? And will has value actually improve if that happens?

I don’t think he holds out, it would be really bad for his career and he would lose millions, but if it came to that, it isn’t great for the Sixers either.

[FlyingArrow]

How would a holdout affect the salary cap?

[kuclas]

Dude, 99 percent of your posts are about how the player won't work on this team. If you think Derrick White and Murray are the answer for this team, you're beyond hopeless.

Please enlighten the board with your realistic trade that will make this team a title contender. SGA? Yeah, we're not getting him. Next?

What are you crying about, exactly? Me accurately describing Collin Sexton's game? LOL

The only answers for this team that I've proposed are Fox and Ingram. Similarly aged players to Simmons that are max players. Another, less realistic option would be Donovan Mitchell.

So Ingram it is then which I agree with. Circumvent and subversion.

Both Ingram and fox are imperfect players. But as we saw last season. Adding Danny green and Seth Curry were more perfect answers than Josh Richardson and Al Horford. And Horford in my opinion is still a more valuable player for most teams than green or Curry are. Look OKC didn’t want to win games Horford was playing well. So they wanted to shut him down to prevent injury. He was playing well.

In my opinion we need a full time point guard. Unless they want to sample Maxey at the point and let Simmon just sit the first 20 plus games of the season. See what Maxey has. Than I’d consider trading Simmons and not getting a full time point guard back.

We need a point guard if we let Simmons be traded. That was the major issue down the stretch with hack a Simmons. Once Sixers pulled Simmons we didn’t have a true point guard in the game. It was a huge problem.

[Kobblehead]

Can you expand further on what aspects of a PG you're looking for?

[spikeslovechild]

I mean we aren't exactly in a position of power here.

Everybody knows we have to move Ben now.

Yeah yeah yeah...call his bluff. Show him whos boss and all that macho ****.

It doesn't work that way and never has...Ben can't dictate where he goes but we also can't just have the dark cloud that is Ben sitting around either.

So whatever we get back for him...will not solve all of our issues and be the perfect fit. That ship has sailed.

We don't have to move Ben at all. He has four years left on his contract. His agent would certainly like that perception to be the case but it's simply not true.

As far as what we get back for him it has to be a great fit otherwise there really is no incentive to not play hardball with him because many of the trades of Simmons for spare parts doesn't get us any closer to a title. So I really have zero issue being patient. Furthermore if he illegally withholds his services there is a decent chance not only do the Sixers not have to pay him but his contract won't toll either.

Which means he'll still have 4 years left on his deal after the year. He doesn't have much if any leverage all he can do really is which is try to create a certain perception in the media that the Sixers have to do something

I'd say the clock ticking on Embiid career is Simmons leverage against the sixers. Morey needs to get this resolved asap so that sixers have a shot this season and not waste another year if Embiids shrinking window.

How does moving Simmons for pennies on the dollar get us any closer to winning a championship? This whole situation reminds me of Irving with the Cavs except Irving had two years left not four.

If we accept a trash win now offer what is to stop Embiid from asking out a year or two after Simmons is traded? Since we already proven that we won't hold players to their longterm deals? There is only way this should play out if I'm Morey and that is I demand the same return regardless and if teams lowball him he calls Simmons bluff.

If there is a good offer you move him of course but most of these offers are trash. Hield? Sexton and Klove? No thanks

[sixers4real]

Can you expand further on what aspects of a PG you're looking for?

Do you see Maxey as a potential starting PG of the Sixers starting this year?
I do. I want that to happen, because no trade can be made to put us in the same tier as Nets for the upcoming season. So I’d better play Maxey as a starter now, give him the ball a lot, so he can be a real contributor on a potential 2023-24-25 title contending team.

[FlyingArrow]

If there is a good offer you move him of course but most of these offers are trash. Hield? Sexton and Klove? No thanks

FWIW, I'm very interested in Sexton and K-Love in a Tobias trade. But considering how that Tobias helped recruit Danny Green to come back, there is a near-zero chance of him being traded. And he probably couldn't fetch Sexton anyway.

[76ciology]

And even when he gets to the basket on speed and size alone, he has no ability to finish over or around anyone. He stinks.

Then why is the price so high to obtain him ? I happen to think he is a better player than Draymond Green and I wouldn’t say he stinks. What gives?

Effect of valuation relative to supply.

If you want scorers, you can find more than a handful of scorers in every draft. But a guy who can make these scorers complete or gives your scorers an edge, that’s hard to find.

Ben gives you that edge with scorers. The extra points, the deflections, the transition points, the lower opponent FG%, and so on. This is where he compliments Embiid and his slow pace, low perimeter volume and heavy ISO game.

There’s a growing supply of one way or one dimensional scorers or mediocre scorers because of how bogus the game is played nowadays like Duncan Robinson, Joe Harris, TJ Warren, Immanuel quickley, Tre Mann, Bouknight, Cam Thomas, Devin Booker, Sexton, Garland, DLo, KAT and so on, these guys would be playable if you have a guy like Ben on your team.

A good example of how these two group of guys compliment one another was the 2019-2020 heat squad during the bubble when guys like Bam Adebayo and Jimmy made Duncan Robinson and Tyler Herro looked good.

we’re looking to trade him is we don’t have any scorers. If we have Harden, instead of Tobias, we wouldnt trade Ben. If we have a healthy Fultz with Tobias and Embiid, we wouldnt look to trade Ben.

You should know that with how you have seen how valuable Draymond or Iguodala are to your team. I follow the Warriors squad a lot before they acquired KD.

People value scoring a lot, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But the really high valued ones are those elite scorers like Harden, Steph, KD and Dame. The rest shouldnt be valued that much.

And glue guys or defensive players aren’t valued a lot, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But the high valued ones are the glue guys or defensive players that matters like Draymond, Ben or Thybulle. The rest shouldn’t be valued that much.

Think about it.

Would trading Draymond for Kyrie make the warriors a better team?

Would trading Kyrie for Draymond make the Nets a better team?

[downtownpie]

Can you expand further on what aspects of a PG you're looking for?

Do you see Maxey as a potential starting PG of the Sixers starting this year?
I do. I want that to happen, because no trade can be made to put us in the same tier as Nets for the upcoming season. So I’d better play Maxey as a starter now, give him the ball a lot, so he can be a real contributor on a potential 2023-24-25 title contending team.

You could argue the Sixers won't beat the Nets until KD and Co move on or retire. If you agree with that whats the point of being a 2nd round exit which can never win a title.

Blow it...Trade Embiid and Simmons and reload for 2025+.