Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[LarsV8]

Young "superstars" leaving good teams is just so rare and unusual, it makes for a really bad trade landscape.

A team on the rise with another star like Dallas, is one, not going to have many assets to trade and two, probably questions Simmons as a fit.

A team rebuilding isnt going to be a destination Simmons is going to want to go and they would be hesitant to give up picks of value.

I really don't see a scenario where Simmons sees a good return.

I sure as hell wouldn't trade Fox for him. Maybe Minnesota and DLO, but that is about the best I can realistically see.

[jbk1234]

Honestly no one really. But I would say there are guys who’ve been traded that can’t be included in deals that do. Prince from Min, Beverly from Min, Rubio from Cleveland come to mind. I would have a ton of interest in like Sexton, Rubio, filler, 23 and 25 firsts, 24 and 26 swaps. Or that ballpark

Gilbert's never going to let Altman ship out all that draft capital, thank god, in addition to Sexton and Rubio.

I'm sure that teams aren't presenting good opening bids, but Simmons has been on the market for a three months now? That's enough time to flush out his market. While it's true that the Sixers aren't negotiating from a position of strength, I think the bigger problem is that other teams just aren't attributing that type of value to Simmons.

He's a max player who can't shoot. Other teams aren't selling the farm for that. He's not Harden or even a second tier two-way guy like PG or Butler.

You're hoping you can mitigate his impact on spacing by moving him to a position he's never played before. Unless you're one of five or six teams, you're going to have make other moves to rebalance your roster afterwards. If you're doing too much of that, it really limits the value in acquiring him. This is before you get into post season Ben and what it means for your long-term goals with him on a max deal.

I suppose that all it takes is for one desperate team to do something dumb, but I feel like if that was going to happen, it would've already.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think a really good young player, a good PG on an expiring contract, immediate cap savings, two unprotected firsts and two swaps, from a 20-win team, is something that's in the cards.

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Maybe just the 25 first and 2 swaps?

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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[Sportfan73]

Young "superstars" leaving good teams is just so rare and unusual, it makes for a really bad trade landscape.

A team on the rise with another star like Dallas, is one, not going to have many assets to trade and two, probably questions Simmons as a fit.

A team rebuilding isnt going to be a destination Simmons is going to want to go and they would be hesitant to give up picks of value.

I really don't see a scenario where Simmons sees a good return.

I sure as hell wouldn't trade Fox for him. Maybe Minnesota and DLO, but that is about the best I can realistically see.

Kind of why the only one that really makes sense is CJ+++ even though a lot of people here hate it. They are really the only other desperate ish team. And the fits make sense. If the value gap can be bridged

[zimpy27]

Gilbert's never going to let Altman ship out all that draft capital, thank god, in addition to Sexton and Rubio.

I'm sure that teams aren't presenting good opening bids, but Simmons has been on the market for a three months now? That's enough time to flush out his market. While it's true that the Sixers aren't negotiating from a position of strength, I think the bigger problem is that other teams just aren't attributing that type of value to Simmons.

He's a max player who can't shoot. Other teams aren't selling the farm for that. He's not Harden or even a second tier two-way guy like PG or Butler.

You're hoping you can mitigate his impact on spacing by moving him to a position he's never played before. Unless you're one of five or six teams, you're going to have make other moves to rebalance your roster afterwards. If you're doing too much of that, it really limits the value in acquiring him. This is before you get into post season Ben and what it means for your long-term goals with him on a max deal.

I suppose that all it takes is for one desperate team to do something dumb, but I feel like if that was going to happen, it would've already.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think a really good young player, a good PG on an expiring contract, immediate cap savings, two unprotected firsts and two swaps, from a 20-win team, is something that's in the cards.

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Maybe just the 25 first and 2 swaps?

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

[jbk1234]

Maybe just the 25 first and 2 swaps?

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

Substituting Windler for Cedi puts the Cavs in the tax. I just don't see it as worth it. The chances the Cavs are better off staying put than making the trade I proposed are way too high for my liking.


Moreover, the Kings pass on this.
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[babyjax13]

Maybe just the 25 first and 2 swaps?

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

I have:
Hield >>>> Love
Mitchell >> Okoro
Bagley << Springer

I don't think there is a deal that makes sense involving Love.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

CLE gets LeVert+Springer+Kelan
CLE gives Sexton+Rubio
Garland, Okoro, LeVert, Mobley, Allen -- Springer, Windler, Martin, Markannen, Love
Cleveland get a couple of wing players, one to start and one off the bench. The guys they bring in fit their timeline for competing.

IND gets Simmons+Curry
IND gives Brogdon+LeVert+Kelan+IND22FRP
Curry, Simmons, Warren, Sabonis, Turner -- McConnell, Duarte, JHoliday, Oshae, Goga
Indy add to the initial trade concept of Brogdon and a future first. Rick gets Curry back and Simmons would likely start at SG ironically unless Warren moves to bench.

PHI gets Brogdon+Sexton+Rubio+IND22FRP
PHI gives Simmons+Curry+Springer
Sexton, Brogdon, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Rubio, Maxey, Thybulle, Reed, Drummond
Philly lacked playmaking in the playoffs and that was with Simmons on the team. They've lost Simmons+Curry but added more playmaking than they had before. They will be a better team next season and shouldn't get substantially worse when starters swap with bench.

Think Cavs should be getting the pick. Seems like turning Sexton into a platter of meh.

That pick could go to the Cavs. They could also take a better player than Martin from Indy. I don't think Cavs are getting meh players. LeVert is a strong fit for their starters as he can generate his own bucket.

Levert is aight. Below average effciency, above average play making. He 27 and has 2 years left. Think Sexton the better player and have longer control. IMO the other two guys don't make me interested enough. Some folk might be higher on them

[OGSactownballer]

Maybe just the 25 first and 2 swaps?

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

People need to stop trying to offload Love on Sac. There is ZERO interest, need or desire to take in two years and more than sixty million dollars of washed up useless won’t take a buyout Kevin Love.

This perception that we want to MOVE Hield and Bagley because there is a need for roster balance and new places for both is NOT that kind of desperation.

There would need to minimally be two unprotected firsts and a guy like Okoro coming back to have that millstone killing our cap for the next two years.

It’s funny because people seem to forget his dismissal from the Olympic team because he can’t play anymore and is a huge distraction and problem.

If we are involved in a Simmons trade we are either getting Simmons outright or getting a really good deal like that one for eating the salary.

Otherwise I think McNair has shown that he will move forward with the roster as is.

[zimpy27]

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

I have:
Hield >>>> Love
Mitchell >> Okoro
Bagley << Springer

I don't think there is a deal that makes sense involving Love.

You have Mitchell more valuable than Okoro when he's 3 years older and hasn't played an NBA game yet? Okoro was pick 5 last offseason.

I have:
Hield >> Love
Mitchell << Okoro
Bagley = Springer

- Love is more impactful than Hield but paid more and a bit older
- Okoro got used to the NBA game and was in a new position most of the year, he looked good.
- Bagley could still turn his game around

[jbk1234]

Our starting bid was Sexton and Love, before we drafted Mobley and traded for Lauri. So now I'm asking myself what position does Ben even play for us? It's not PF. We have Allen at center. So maybe SF, but then Okoro should be in the out box and we need a SG who can shoot. We're really close to the tax line already. So I'm not seeing a trade that works for the Cavs where we get back Simmons.

But to the extent I was going to try, the absolute most I would offer is something like this:

Cavs out: Sexton, Cedi, Okoro, Love & a single protected 1st.

Love and the protected first to the Kings for Heild and Bagley.

Cavs get Simmons and Heild.

Sixers get Sexton, Okoro, Cedi and Bagley. If that doesn't work for Philly, I'd just pass altogether on bringing Simmons to Cleveland.

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Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

People need to stop trying to offload Love on Sac. There is ZERO interest, need or desire to take in two years and more than sixty million dollars of washed up useless won’t take a buyout Kevin Love.

This perception that we want to MOVE Hield and Bagley because there is a need for roster balance and new places for both is NOT that kind of desperation.

There would need to minimally be two unprotected firsts and a guy like Okoro coming back to have that millstone killing our cap for the next two years.

It’s funny because people seem to forget his dismissal from the Olympic team because he can’t play anymore and is a huge distraction and problem.

If we are involved in a Simmons trade we are either getting Simmons outright or getting a really good deal like that one for eating the salary.

Otherwise I think McNair has shown that he will move forward with the roster as is.

If the Kings aren't interested, they're not interested. I don't think the Cavs are jonesing to add Simmons anyway. I suspect they're staying involved in the conversation to help facilitate as a third team as they've had some success with that approach in the past.

The other framework that works is with the Cavs acting as a facilitator to Minny where Beasely and a pick come to Cleveland with a Sexton and Cedi heading to Philly.

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[doctor him]

I hate to seem like the old man shaking his fist at the youngins to get off his lawn, but I fear that’s where I’m going to end up here.

I have multiple problems with this entire situation as a Sixers fan here, a basketball fan and just as a plain human being.

As a Sixers fan here I have an issue with the hypocrisy. Mr. Simmons is simultaneously a terrible and fantastic basketball player depending on the narrative being pushed for negotiation.

But guys…”real gm” isn’t the nba. It’s a place to have discussion and conjecture. No one needs to try to move the needle in hopes their post somehow magically gets Mr. Simmons to their favorite team for a discount.

As a basketball fan I have a real problem with the national image rehab of Mr. Simmons that’s going on in real time.

With all situations that don’t work out there’s blame to go around, but the Klutch narrative that the national media is pushing HARD is the Mr. Simmons was somehow mistreated or abused by management, ownership, fans, and the region.

And that’s untrue to its core.

If I blame the Sixers for anything it would be in coddling their young players and giving them WAY too much power and almost no accountability. If there was a failure in the “Process” is was in the disregarding of veteran leadership and mentoring for young players. That gap ended up ruining or severely impacting the careers of every high pick sans Embiid.

As a human being, I cringe at how obvious the conflict the national basketball media steers into and the overwhelming power of the connected (or content creators).

Reporters, commentators, analysts, columnists, writers, broadcasters, etc all depend on access to get the “story” for the public.

So in exchange for access they sacrifice objectivity or even basic reasoning.

The powerful agents demand that only the most positive and charitable narrative for the player is relentlessly pushed.

Which could be ok if the same model didn’t/hasn’t infected every other corner of every other media.

In truth, Mr. Simmons wants to play elsewhere. That is his right. But he’s not a victim. He’s an active participant in this situation.


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[Texas Chuck]

[
People need to stop trying to offload Love on Sac. There is ZERO interest, need or desire to take in two years and more than sixty million dollars of washed up useless won’t take a buyout Kevin Love.

This perception that we want to MOVE Hield and Bagley because there is a need for roster balance and new places for both is NOT that kind of desperation.

There would need to minimally be two unprotected firsts and a guy like Okoro coming back to have that millstone killing our cap for the next two years.

It’s funny because people seem to forget his dismissal from the Olympic team because he can’t play anymore and is a huge distraction and problem.

Let's review this:

I think the Kings probably wouldn't mind moving Buddy and Bagley. But obviously only if a deal makes sense. Kevin Love, I agree makes no sense.

But asking for 2 unprotected picks from one of the worst teams in the league to save Cleveland zero money in year one and like $10M in year while adding even more salary in year 3 is of course not even remotely reasonable on any level. You couldn't get one unprotected pick for that swap and honestly Cleveland would be wise to give you zero value in that swap and just let the Love deal run out next year over paying Buddy still another year.

That also violates board policy against ridiculous counters so please don't do that again. Dumbs down the board.

And literally nobody has forgotten how bad Kevin Love is. This board only talks about him in negative terms. You are creating a false narrative I guess to play victim I guess to justify that ridiculous ask above. Again, this board is better when we don't try and create our own clearly false narratives.

You could simply have correctly stated the Kings have no interest in swapping Bagley/Buddy for Love and we would have all gone yep I wouldn't either.

[OGSactownballer]

[
People need to stop trying to offload Love on Sac. There is ZERO interest, need or desire to take in two years and more than sixty million dollars of washed up useless won’t take a buyout Kevin Love.

This perception that we want to MOVE Hield and Bagley because there is a need for roster balance and new places for both is NOT that kind of desperation.

There would need to minimally be two unprotected firsts and a guy like Okoro coming back to have that millstone killing our cap for the next two years.

It’s funny because people seem to forget his dismissal from the Olympic team because he can’t play anymore and is a huge distraction and problem.

Let's review this:

I think the Kings probably wouldn't mind moving Buddy and Bagley. But obviously only if a deal makes sense. Kevin Love, I agree makes no sense.

But asking for 2 unprotected picks from one of the worst teams in the league to save Cleveland zero money in year one and like $10M in year while adding even more salary in year 3 is of course not even remotely reasonable on any level. You couldn't get one unprotected pick for that swap and honestly Cleveland would be wise to give you zero value in that swap and just let the Love deal run out next year over paying Buddy still another year.

That also violates board policy against ridiculous counters so please don't do that again. Dumbs down the board.

And literally nobody has forgotten how bad Kevin Love is. This board only talks about him in negative terms. You are creating a false narrative I guess to play victim I guess to justify that ridiculous ask above. Again, this board is better when we don't try and create our own clearly false narratives.

You could simply have correctly stated the Kings have no interest in swapping Bagley/Buddy for Love and we would have all gone yep I wouldn't either.

I understand where you are coming from and you are correct in that I went over the top in my proposal.

Of course I believe that you also realize that I was being intentionally exaggerated in that ask because of irritation at constantly seeing proposals (which you have not criticized btw) of SAC getting completely shafted to improve those other teams being treated as a minor league team or dumping ground.

Honestly at this point everything that can be said about the subject by all of us here has been said and the vest thing is to sit back and wait to see what the reality becomes.

[Killboard]

For me yes .
Beasley >>> hield
Mcdaniels <<<<< haliburton (position wise this holds the key for me)
Reid > bagley ( I got Drummond as a decent minute eater behind embiid so this doesn’t really matter for me )

yeah but haliburton will play the point, Replacing simmons long term. Bagley has a unique skill set that can fit as part of a Emblid, Harris led frontcourt. Mcdaniels will just be competing with Green for min, as he is not going to displace Harris. Min package is a ice package it just does not match up as well with Philly's need post simmons.

Yea we both grade the sac return as better for on court . Haliburton is a good fit for them

Totally agreed Hali makes more sense for Philly, but in a vaccum, where a 3rd team can be involved, I'm not sure the gap between McDaniels and Hali is so big to offset the other two gaps, specially considering salaries (the wolves listed assets cost around half for similar years of control).

[babyjax13]

Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

I have:
Hield >>>> Love
Mitchell >> Okoro
Bagley << Springer

I don't think there is a deal that makes sense involving Love.

You have Mitchell more valuable than Okoro when he's 3 years older and hasn't played an NBA game yet? Okoro was pick 5 last offseason.

I have:
Hield >> Love
Mitchell << Okoro
Bagley = Springer

- Love is more impactful than Hield but paid more and a bit older
- Okoro got used to the NBA game and was in a new position most of the year, he looked good.
- Bagley could still turn his game around

1. no impact if you don't play
2. I like Okoro, I can see him being better than Mitchell, but I don't think that matters re: their present perceived value, especially since Mitchell has an additional year
3. He could, but he probably won't. Honestly I think Springer has more value but I was trying to be conservative

[Texas Chuck]

What about something out of nowhere:

Simmons/Curry/22 PHI 1st for Paul George? Clippers have tons of shooting to make Simmons work. Philly gets a shooting 2nd option to Embiid.

[doctor him]

What about something out of nowhere:

Simmons/Curry/22 PHI 1st for Paul George? Clippers have tons of shooting to make Simmons work. Philly gets a shooting 2nd option to Embiid.

Can't see that working for the Clips. They would have no #1 option next season.

Unless they want to force feed Simmons shots or tank for a season and let Kawhi fully recover to challenge for 2023.

[doctor him]

Last piece of my rant...

How this will play out in the end.

Simmons will get traded for XXXX.

Then the narrative will shift from "the Sixers are being so unreasonable in demanding XXXX!!!" to "I can't BELIEVE that Simmons was only dealt for XXXX!!!"

No matter what the final deal is the spin will be that whatever team that gets Simmons won the deal.

The Sixers could deal him to heaven for Jesus and 5 apostles and the media narrative will be how heaven's squad got better and they didn't even have to give up more than half of apostle or even 1 archangel.

And the fanbase whose team acquires Simmons will INSTANTLY change their narrative as well.

I think it's just the disingenuous nature of the whole story that's irritating me. Either that or having to clean up after the tornadoes ripped through our township last week.

[BoogieTime]

Using your framework, I think this value could work for Philly and the other teams involved. It means Philly get a big TPE to use by deadline or in the next offseason.

CLE give Sexton+Windler+Okoro+Love+CLE22FRP
CLE get Simmons+Hield
Garland, Hield, Simmons, Mobley, Markannen -- Rubio, Dotson, Cedi, Wade, Allen

SAC give Hield+Bagley+Mitchell
SAC get Okoro+Love+Springer
Fox, Curry, Okoro, Barnes, Holmes -- Hali, TD2, Harkless, TT, Love

PHI give Simmons+Springer
PHI get Windler+Sexton+Mitchell+TPE($33m)+CLE22FRP
Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Mitchell, Maxey, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond

OKC get Bagley

I have:
Hield >>>> Love
Mitchell >> Okoro
Bagley << Springer

I don't think there is a deal that makes sense involving Love.

You have Mitchell more valuable than Okoro when he's 3 years older and hasn't played an NBA game yet? Okoro was pick 5 last offseason.

I have:
Hield >> Love
Mitchell << Okoro
Bagley = Springer

- Love is more impactful than Hield but paid more and a bit older
- Okoro got used to the NBA game and was in a new position most of the year, he looked good.
- Bagley could still turn his game around

Love is done going on 34, with his play/injuries. Hield has room to still be a + starting SG in the right environment. They aren't comparable IMO.

Mitchell being not 2.5 years older is why he was picked as low as he was. Judging from the play in SL, he would still be categorized as a culture changer to most Kings fans. Judging youth is subjective, Id leave it as most Kings fans wouldnt agree with your valuation or trade.

[mademan]

Last piece of my rant...

How this will play out in the end.

Simmons will get traded for XXXX.

Then the narrative will shift from "the Sixers are being so unreasonable in demanding XXXX!!!" to "I can't BELIEVE that Simmons was only dealt for XXXX!!!"

No matter what the final deal is the spin will be that whatever team that gets Simmons won the deal.

The Sixers could deal him to heaven for Jesus and 5 apostles and the media narrative will be how heaven's squad got better and they didn't even have to give up more than half of apostle or even 1 archangel.

And the fanbase whose team acquires Simmons will INSTANTLY change their narrative as well.

I think it's just the disingenuous nature of the whole story that's irritating me. Either that or having to clean up after the tornadoes ripped through our township last week.

This is just inevitable tho. Simmons is a very good player who's value is dampened to a plethora of reasons. Some team is gonna get a value steal for him because of these circumstances. It's how all 'star demands out' trades go