Cedric Ceballos in ICU with COVID

[Swish1906]

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Again, nice try. You find article all over the World explaining it.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/31/covid-israel-hospitalization-rates-simpsons-paradox/

Btw numbers in german ICU two weeks ago. 309 total. 17 full vaxxed, rest unvaxxed Thats 95%

[macNcheese3]

Wishing him the best.

[GSWFan1994]

Here's wishing Ceballos gets better sooner rather than later.

As for the thread, it's beyond disgusting reading people saying he should be left to die based on his vacination status.

It's a human life right there. All should be treasured. All of them matters, to themselves, to their families and friends, and to God too.

[Curmudgeon]

Meh, there is virtually no risk to the vaccine. That's just fear mongering by the anti-vaxxers. It makes me sad to see people suffer and die needlessly, but I don't feel sorry for them because they did it to themselves.

[Blacksheep25]

Here's wishing Ceballos gets better sooner rather than later.

As for the thread, it's beyond disgusting reading people saying he should be left to die based on his vacination status.

It's a human life right there. All should be treasured. All of them matters, to themselves, to their families and friends, and to God too.

I don’t wish him dead, but anyone walking around unvaccinated in September hasn’t cared about getting your loved ones and family ill for a single second. He didn’t treasure your family’s health. He didn’t treasure your parents health. Dying of Covid at this point, unless 1 in 100 unlucky, is a suicide. And more similar to a suicide bomber who was taking others out with himself.

[Dr Aki]

The funny thing is that a vaxxed person would for sure tell that he is vaxxed because he doesnt want ppl to think that he isnt vaxxed/didnt take it seriously/is a denier etc. Thats a principle thing. But maybe just vaxxed people understand this thought process, huh...

And of course the odds...

Of course. It’s like someone getting lung cancer who isn’t a smoker. You want people to know you weren’t an idiot, just unlucky. Much more respect for smokers though, as they only put themselves and maybe someone who lives with them 24/7 at risk. These people had no regard for your loved ones. Prayers for sociopaths, no thanks.

You clearly are too young to remember the battle over smoking. As for the vaccine, no one has explained how getting vaccinated protects everyone other than yourself lol.

i'll explain how

the SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein is critical for infection

the vaccine induces your (healthy) immune system to produce spike neutralising antibodies and lowers:
1. chance of infection, because your immune system can prevent the virus replicating enough, reducing viral load and preventing exposure from turning into the disease (i.e. COVID-19)
2. chance of infecting others, because lower viral load means less chance of infection, lower viral load also lowers the risk of transmission

the above doesn't mean you can't get covid if you're fully vaccinated, we call them breakthrough infections

the above doesn't mean you can't be an asymptomatic transmitter either, but there is early evidence to say that it lowers that chance as well. so mask up and wash your hands!

there's currently evidence that certain immunocompromised patients (either through their disease, or through the drugs they use to treat their disease) don't mount a sufficient immune response to 2 doses of pfizer/moderna, and as thus will either require booster shots, or if they don't mount any immune response, will need to rely on reducing exposure and/or (hopefully soon) herd immunity.

at the moment, there's also evidence that your immunity wanes after a while and that you might need booster shots anyway (like the fluvax every year)

israel is currently giving over-12s a third shot, the US and UK are offering a third dose to immunocompromised pops.

source: i'm working with the covid vaccine in a haematology (blood cancer) setting

[Aventador]

Of course. It’s like someone getting lung cancer who isn’t a smoker. You want people to know you weren’t an idiot, just unlucky. Much more respect for smokers though, as they only put themselves and maybe someone who lives with them 24/7 at risk. These people had no regard for your loved ones. Prayers for sociopaths, no thanks.

You clearly are too young to remember the battle over smoking. As for the vaccine, no one has explained how getting vaccinated protects everyone other than yourself lol.

i'll explain how

the SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein is critical for infection

the vaccine induces your (healthy) immune system to produce spike neutralising antibodies and lowers:
1. chance of infection, because your immune system can prevent the virus replicating enough, reducing viral load and preventing exposure from turning into the disease (i.e. COVID-19)
2. chance of infecting others, because lower viral load means less chance of infection, lower viral load also lowers the risk of transmission

the above doesn't mean you can't get covid in you're fully vaccinated, we call them breakthrough infections, the above doesn't mean you can't be an asymptomatic transmitter, but there is early evidence to say that it lowers that chance as well.

there's currently evidence that certain immunocompromised patients (either through their disease, or through the drugs they use to treat their disease) don't mount a sufficient immune response to 2 doses of pfizer/moderna, and as thus will either require booster shots, or if they don't mount any immune response, will need to rely on reducing exposure and/or (hopefully soon) herd immunity.

israel is giving over-12s a third shot, the US and UK are offering a third dose to immunocompromised pops.

source: i'm working with the covid vaccine in a haematology (blood cancer) setting

Facebook cite required for the above bolded font please

[Neutral 123]

Of course. It’s like someone getting lung cancer who isn’t a smoker. You want people to know you weren’t an idiot, just unlucky. Much more respect for smokers though, as they only put themselves and maybe someone who lives with them 24/7 at risk. These people had no regard for your loved ones. Prayers for sociopaths, no thanks.

You clearly are too young to remember the battle over smoking. As for the vaccine, no one has explained how getting vaccinated protects everyone other than yourself lol.

i'll explain how

the SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein is critical for infection

the vaccine induces your (healthy) immune system to produce spike neutralising antibodies and lowers:
1. chance of infection, because your immune system can prevent the virus replicating enough, reducing viral load and preventing exposure from turning into the disease (i.e. COVID-19)
2. chance of infecting others, because lower viral load means less chance of infection, lower viral load also lowers the risk of transmission

the above doesn't mean you can't get covid in you're fully vaccinated, we call them breakthrough infections

the above doesn't mean you can't be an asymptomatic transmitter either, but there is early evidence to say that it lowers that chance as well. so mask up and wash your hands!

there's currently evidence that certain immunocompromised patients (either through their disease, or through the drugs they use to treat their disease) don't mount a sufficient immune response to 2 doses of pfizer/moderna, and as thus will either require booster shots, or if they don't mount any immune response, will need to rely on reducing exposure and/or (hopefully soon) herd immunity.

at the moment, there's also evidence that your immunity wanes after a while and that you might need booster shots anyway (like the fluvax every year)

israel is currently giving over-12s a third shot, the US and UK are offering a third dose to immunocompromised pops.

source: i'm working with the covid vaccine in a haematology (blood cancer) setting

So what's in bold is what's relevant here. This would be at the heart of wanting to force others to get the vaccine. Even if this was true there are still "breakthrough" infections and quickly waning immunity severely limiting the usefulness of the vaccine.

Lower viral load, coupled with less restrictions for those who are vaccinated means MORE spread. Someone with a lower viral load is far more likely to be an asymptomatic transmitter.

[Curmudgeon]

Meh, what's the use of having medical schools when we have Facebook?

[Swish1906]

Meh, what's the use of having medical schools when we have Facebook?

The university of Youtube is great too

[Dr Aki]

You clearly are too young to remember the battle over smoking. As for the vaccine, no one has explained how getting vaccinated protects everyone other than yourself lol.

i'll explain how

the SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein is critical for infection

the vaccine induces your (healthy) immune system to produce spike neutralising antibodies and lowers:
1. chance of infection, because your immune system can prevent the virus replicating enough, reducing viral load and preventing exposure from turning into the disease (i.e. COVID-19)
2. chance of infecting others, because lower viral load means less chance of infection, lower viral load also lowers the risk of transmission

the above doesn't mean you can't get covid in you're fully vaccinated, we call them breakthrough infections

the above doesn't mean you can't be an asymptomatic transmitter either, but there is early evidence to say that it lowers that chance as well. so mask up and wash your hands!

there's currently evidence that certain immunocompromised patients (either through their disease, or through the drugs they use to treat their disease) don't mount a sufficient immune response to 2 doses of pfizer/moderna, and as thus will either require booster shots, or if they don't mount any immune response, will need to rely on reducing exposure and/or (hopefully soon) herd immunity.

at the moment, there's also evidence that your immunity wanes after a while and that you might need booster shots anyway (like the fluvax every year)

israel is currently giving over-12s a third shot, the US and UK are offering a third dose to immunocompromised pops.

source: i'm working with the covid vaccine in a haematology (blood cancer) setting

So what's in bold is what's relevant here. This would be at the heart of wanting to force others to get the vaccine. Even if this was true there are still "breakthrough" infections and quickly waning immunity severely limiting the usefulness of the vaccine.

Lower viral load, coupled with less restrictions for those who are vaccinated means MORE spread. Someone with a lower viral load is far more likely to be an asymptomatic transmitter.

i wouldn't say it's quickly waning, though the rate at which it wanes isn't fully known at this stage

we currently have UK data that mRNA vaccines (pfizer/moderna) wane faster than vector vaccine (astrazeneca), but is still more protective at 6 months post second dose than single dose or unvaccinated (obvious, but bares repeating)

we have data from a pfizer submission to the fda that says that a third shot 5-8 months post second dose boosts immunity to rates higher than just the second dose, hence the fda approving it for immunocompromised pops

as for less restrictions, well yeh, more circulation means more infections, so protect yourselves accordingly, get vaccinated and encourage those around you to do the same

[DaGawd]

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Watch on YouTube

[Neutral 123]

i'll explain how

the SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein is critical for infection

the vaccine induces your (healthy) immune system to produce spike neutralising antibodies and lowers:
1. chance of infection, because your immune system can prevent the virus replicating enough, reducing viral load and preventing exposure from turning into the disease (i.e. COVID-19)
2. chance of infecting others, because lower viral load means less chance of infection, lower viral load also lowers the risk of transmission

the above doesn't mean you can't get covid in you're fully vaccinated, we call them breakthrough infections

the above doesn't mean you can't be an asymptomatic transmitter either, but there is early evidence to say that it lowers that chance as well. so mask up and wash your hands!

there's currently evidence that certain immunocompromised patients (either through their disease, or through the drugs they use to treat their disease) don't mount a sufficient immune response to 2 doses of pfizer/moderna, and as thus will either require booster shots, or if they don't mount any immune response, will need to rely on reducing exposure and/or (hopefully soon) herd immunity.

at the moment, there's also evidence that your immunity wanes after a while and that you might need booster shots anyway (like the fluvax every year)

israel is currently giving over-12s a third shot, the US and UK are offering a third dose to immunocompromised pops.

source: i'm working with the covid vaccine in a haematology (blood cancer) setting

So what's in bold is what's relevant here. This would be at the heart of wanting to force others to get the vaccine. Even if this was true there are still "breakthrough" infections and quickly waning immunity severely limiting the usefulness of the vaccine.

Lower viral load, coupled with less restrictions for those who are vaccinated means MORE spread. Someone with a lower viral load is far more likely to be an asymptomatic transmitter.

i wouldn't say it's quickly waning, though the rate at which it wanes isn't fully known at this stage

we currently have UK data that mRNA vaccines (pfizer/moderna) wane faster than vector vaccine (astrazeneca), but is still more protective at 6 months post second dose than single dose or unvaccinated (obvious, but bares repeating)

we have data from a pfizer submission to the fda that says that a third shot 5-8 months post second dose boosts immunity to rates higher than just the second dose, hence the fda approving it for immunocompromised pops

as for less restrictions, well yeh, more circulation means more infections, so protect yourselves accordingly, get vaccinated and encourage those around you to do the same

So you agree that those who are vaccinated are more likely to be walking around infected unknowingly? That although they may be less infectious, someone who is no longer social distancing, masking etc may actually be more likely to spread Covid to more people as a function of them not feeling sick?

*I'd also say that 5 months of significantly waning protection is quick.

[Blacksheep25]

The funny thing is that a vaxxed person would for sure tell that he is vaxxed because he doesnt want ppl to think that he isnt vaxxed/didnt take it seriously/is a denier etc. Thats a principle thing. But maybe just vaxxed people understand this thought process, huh...

And of course the odds...

Of course. It’s like someone getting lung cancer who isn’t a smoker. You want people to know you weren’t an idiot, just unlucky. Much more respect for smokers though, as they only put themselves and maybe someone who lives with them 24/7 at risk. These people had no regard for your loved ones. Prayers for sociopaths, no thanks.

You clearly are too young to remember the battle over smoking. As for the vaccine, no one has explained how getting vaccinated protects everyone other than yourself lol.

I’m over 50. There have been many battles over smoking after the clear and convincing case that it’s a deadly habit, so idk what battle you are referring to. I’m just saying, smokers kill themselves and maybe a loved one who lives with them voluntarily and is exposed to their second hand smoke daily over the course of decades. People are saying Covid is a hoax on twitter and dead two weeks later. Meanwhile, they’ve infected loved ones, strangers, etc.


An anti-vaxxer or non-vaccinated person is before anything, selfish. Someone who doesn’t care about the social compact. Someone who thought five minutes of their time was more valuable than exposing someone else.

[Neutral 123]

Here's wishing Ceballos gets better sooner rather than later.

As for the thread, it's beyond disgusting reading people saying he should be left to die based on his vacination status.

It's a human life right there. All should be treasured. All of them matters, to themselves, to their families and friends, and to God too.

Healthcare is a human right unless you don't do what I tell you.

[Swish1906]

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Watch on YouTube

Damn it took six minutes until the Youtube university strikes

[Neutral 123]

Of course. It’s like someone getting lung cancer who isn’t a smoker. You want people to know you weren’t an idiot, just unlucky. Much more respect for smokers though, as they only put themselves and maybe someone who lives with them 24/7 at risk. These people had no regard for your loved ones. Prayers for sociopaths, no thanks.

You clearly are too young to remember the battle over smoking. As for the vaccine, no one has explained how getting vaccinated protects everyone other than yourself lol.

I’m over 50. There have been many battles over smoking after the clear and convincing case that it’s a deadly habit, so idk what battle you are referring to. I’m just saying, smokers kill themselves and maybe a loved one who lives with them voluntarily and is exposed to their second hand smoke daily over the course of decades. People are saying Covid is a hoax on twitter and dead two weeks later. Meanwhile, they’ve infected loved ones, strangers, etc.


An anti-vaxxer or non-vaccinated person is before anything, selfish. Someone who doesn’t care about the social compact. Someone who thought five minutes of their time was more valuable than exposing someone else.

The battle to allow smoking indoors, bars, clubs etc. Smokers were absolutely impacting non smokers and didn't like the idea of no longer being allowed to smoke indoors.

[Dr Aki]

So what's in bold is what's relevant here. This would be at the heart of wanting to force others to get the vaccine. Even if this was true there are still "breakthrough" infections and quickly waning immunity severely limiting the usefulness of the vaccine.

Lower viral load, coupled with less restrictions for those who are vaccinated means MORE spread. Someone with a lower viral load is far more likely to be an asymptomatic transmitter.

i wouldn't say it's quickly waning, though the rate at which it wanes isn't fully known at this stage

we currently have UK data that mRNA vaccines (pfizer/moderna) wane faster than vector vaccine (astrazeneca), but is still more protective at 6 months post second dose than single dose or unvaccinated (obvious, but bares repeating)

we have data from a pfizer submission to the fda that says that a third shot 5-8 months post second dose boosts immunity to rates higher than just the second dose, hence the fda approving it for immunocompromised pops

as for less restrictions, well yeh, more circulation means more infections, so protect yourselves accordingly, get vaccinated and encourage those around you to do the same

So you agree that those who are vaccinated are more likely to be walking around infected unknowingly? That although they may be less infectious, someone who is no longer social distancing, masking etc may actually be more likely to spread Covid to more people as a function of them not feeling sick?

at the moment that's not really an answerable question, because:
1. it assumes all vaccinated people don't feel the need to mask and social distance
2. it assumes vaccinated people don't mask and/or social distance at the same or higher rate than unvaccinated people (and we know some unvaccinated people don't)

it depends on the setting of where you do your research, i'm sure if you do research here in australia (where in western sydney we have lockdowns and curfews, a 5 km radius for non-essential travel, mask mandates), you'll find that vaccinated people aren't the ones being transmission vectors

if you do the same research in parts of the US where community exposure is high and social enforcement is low, then you might get different results.

the only reliable (nb: controlled) research that you can do at the moment is household transmission among vaccinated and unvaccinated households with confirmed covid cases, or when cases/community infections get out of control anyway, look at population vaccination rates and then rates of hospitalisations/ICU/deaths

i should also note, that due to the disease being so novel, and the vaccines being even more novel, that there is currently no standardised blood level of antibodies that is considered an "immune" status, the waning aspect of the vaccine is testing which vaccines have what rates of spike neutralising antibodies in their blood at those time points, and that they've found that people that took the pfizer/moderna vaccines have lower rates of spike neutralising antibodies than those that took the astrazeneca ones

but the research is coming, and the more time we have, the more knowledge we have

[DavidSterned]

Stuff like this is just sad. This guy is clearly fighting for his life and the vast majority of people just care about his vaccine status so they can see if they can use this as a pro or con for their side of the argument. I mean we even have people saying he should maybe lose his spot in the ICU based on his vaccine status.

The coldness of many people nowadays is eye opening. I hope he gets the best available care and gets healthy.

And just a heads up, I’m not looking to debate on this topic. So you can quote me but I’m not going to read it. Don’t really care about having a debate over someone who is currently fighting for his life.

Coldness is allowing this stuff to slide when there is a clear fix to prevent this. Given how packed hospitals are, he is likely taking up a hospital bed that could be used to host another patient, either with diabetes, car accident, and what not. This other person is not able to have the care he or she needs because this selfish guy is refusing to take the vaccine, and is now in the hospital for it.

If you refuse to get vaccinated, unless you can prove a medical condition preventing you from getting it, you should sign away your rights to a spot in the hospital for covid. Ask your Facebook doctor how to breathe without a ventilator.

Yeah, great examples.

The guy with Type 2 Diabetes who ate poorly for decades and ignored his blood sugar levels?

Or the guy in a car accident who was driving too fast for the road conditions and was at fault for the wreck?

Guess they don't deserve a hospital bed either. In fact, no one ever deserves premium lifesaving medical care unless they are perfect specimens who made nothing but well informed health decisions throughout the entirety of their lives. Otherwise, f*ck 'em and let them suffer the consequences, am I right?

[Neutral 123]

i wouldn't say it's quickly waning, though the rate at which it wanes isn't fully known at this stage

we currently have UK data that mRNA vaccines (pfizer/moderna) wane faster than vector vaccine (astrazeneca), but is still more protective at 6 months post second dose than single dose or unvaccinated (obvious, but bares repeating)

we have data from a pfizer submission to the fda that says that a third shot 5-8 months post second dose boosts immunity to rates higher than just the second dose, hence the fda approving it for immunocompromised pops

as for less restrictions, well yeh, more circulation means more infections, so protect yourselves accordingly, get vaccinated and encourage those around you to do the same

So you agree that those who are vaccinated are more likely to be walking around infected unknowingly? That although they may be less infectious, someone who is no longer social distancing, masking etc may actually be more likely to spread Covid to more people as a function of them not feeling sick?

at the moment that's not really an answerable question, because:
1. it assumes all vaccinated people don't feel the need to mask and social distance
2. it assumes vaccinated people don't mask and/or social distance at the same or higher rate than unvaccinated people (and we know some unvaccinated people don't)

it depends on the setting of where you do your research, i'm sure if you do research here in australia (where in western sydney we have lockdowns and curfews, a 5 km radius for non-essential travel, mask mandates), you'll find that vaccinated people aren't the ones being transmission vectors

if you do the same research in parts of the US where community exposure is high and social enforcement is low, then you might get different results.

the only reliable (nb: controlled) research that you can do at the moment is household transmission among vaccinated and unvaccinated households with confirmed covid cases, or when cases/community infections get out of control anyway, look at population vaccination rates and then rates of hospitalisations/ICU/deaths

That's true. However, what we are seeing around the world is more privileges for those who are vaccinated. In many settings they wont be subjected to testing and will be allowed to engage in activities that result in close contact with others. If they are less likely to know they are infected, they are also likely to be out infecting others.

So I've yet to see a reason to force those who don't want it to get it. We haven't even gotten into all the complications and deaths from the vaccine.