Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Jingles2]

If this or something similar has been mentioned before I apologize. I think the Pacers could offer up Brogdon, LeVert, two firsts and maybe two pick swaps for Simmons and Thybulle OR Maxey.

Both Brogdon and LeVert have shown to be good players/ borderline all stars when healthy and can help Philly win now. It doesn't get them a young all star or top prospect, but I don't think they're getting a Lillard, Fox or Haliburton. Probably McCollum or Sexton is the best player they can get and McCollum isn't young and 76s might prefer a package of Brogdon and LeVert over Sexton and ?. Simmons fits with Sabonis and Turner age wise. Obviously Pacers lose some scoring and shooting but would hope Duarte can make up for some of that. That all being said I'm not sure Indiana would go for this, but I think they should. Better to shoot for greatness and fail then be stuck in mediocrity. For Philly it's a tough call. Sexton or someone else they can get may have higher upside or be younger, but are they going to help Philly compete over the next few years?

[babyjax13]

If Cleveland had been planning on making a run on Simmons trading Larry Nance Jr. makes little sense. His salary would have been perfect to aggregate with Rubio and Sexton. It's really hard to see Cleveland adding Okoro or other young players and I can't imaging Philadelphia would consider adding Love and his massive deal to Harris at PF

Sexton/Okoro/Love gets it done IMO

They are expendable and valued at the same time.

That's not going to work. Sexton will be due for an extension in Love's final year, so in addition to Love's dead money, you also have another 20+ million dollar contract along with Tobias and Embiid. You'd be in the tax with those four alone, most likely, and on top of that it would be the repeater tax.

[DWhiteMamba]

IMO Cleveland is only in this for leverage, and because Morey likes the idea of condemning Simmons to play there. Does anyone really think Morey likes Sexton and wants him? I sure don't. He's on the trade market (in CLEVELAND!!!) for a reason. Love is washed, so all they're actually getting for Simmons is Okoro who is a meh prospect. Even with his value tanked the 76ers can do better than that.

I have absolutely no idea what Simmons actually goes for, because the gap between what he's actually worth and what Morey is asking for is so huge is just feels unbridgeable unless Morey accepts less than half of what he wants. If he waits to the season to make a trade this could get really ugly for him. I get the temptation to wait, I would want the Spurs to wait in the same situation; but if I was the Spurs I wouldn't have been creating an environment where the coach and star player can mouth off about him, and then not defend him in the media, and have a front office that leaks so much that he knows you've been trying to trade him all-year, and then have every front office embarrass you by leaking your terrible offers because they were so bad they were offended them. Even the Spurs leaked how bad the offer was, and getting info out of them is usually tougher than getting blood out of a stone.

I just think Morey has no good options, and he's getting flack no matter what he does (and some of it rightly).

[Sportfan73]

IMO Cleveland is only in this for leverage, and because Morey likes the idea of condemning Simmons to play there. Does anyone really think Morey likes Sexton and wants him? I sure don't. He's on the trade market (in CLEVELAND!!!) for a reason. Love is washed, so all they're actually getting for Simmons is Okoro who is a meh prospect. Even with his value tanked the 76ers can do better than that.

I have absolutely no idea what Simmons actually goes for, because the gap between what he's actually worth and what Morey is asking for is so huge is just feels unbridgeable unless Morey accepts less than half of what he wants. If he waits to the season to make a trade this could get really ugly for him. I get the temptation to wait, I would want the Spurs to wait in the same situation; but if I was the Spurs I wouldn't have been creating an environment where the coach and star player can mouth off about him, and then not defend him in the media, and have a front office that leaks so much that he knows you've been trying to trade him all-year, and then have every front office embarrass you by leaking your terrible offers because they were so bad they were offended them. Even the Spurs leaked how bad the offer was, and getting info out of them is usually tougher than getting blood out of a stone.

I just think Morey has no good options, and he's getting flack no matter what he does (and some of it rightly).

i think the Cleveland thing is very for real

[DWhiteMamba]

I mean, if the Cavs are foolishly tossing in a bunch of unprotected picks, sure. For Sexton? I doubt it. If Sexton is good why on earth is he on the market? Why would Cleveland, a team that overpays everyone and everything in the hope of just being respectable, be looking to trade him before he's due to be paid? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

[DroseReturnChi]

IMO Cleveland is only in this for leverage, and because Morey likes the idea of condemning Simmons to play there. Does anyone really think Morey likes Sexton and wants him? I sure don't. He's on the trade market (in CLEVELAND!!!) for a reason. Love is washed, so all they're actually getting for Simmons is Okoro who is a meh prospect. Even with his value tanked the 76ers can do better than that.

I have absolutely no idea what Simmons actually goes for, because the gap between what he's actually worth and what Morey is asking for is so huge is just feels unbridgeable unless Morey accepts less than half of what he wants. If he waits to the season to make a trade this could get really ugly for him. I get the temptation to wait, I would want the Spurs to wait in the same situation; but if I was the Spurs I wouldn't have been creating an environment where the coach and star player can mouth off about him, and then not defend him in the media, and have a front office that leaks so much that he knows you've been trying to trade him all-year, and then have every front office embarrass you by leaking your terrible offers because they were so bad they were offended them. Even the Spurs leaked how bad the offer was, and getting info out of them is usually tougher than getting blood out of a stone.

I just think Morey has no good options, and he's getting flack no matter what he does (and some of it rightly).

sexton, love are mainly fillers or test drives. if they dont work out, morey can easily dump both.
what they want are the 4 unprotected picks to trade for a future disgruntled superstar like simmons.
cavs absolutely need simmons after they committed to lauri and garland who needs elite defense and playmaking instead of empty stats sexton. cavs are predictable they are simply doing bpa just amassing talent regardless of position. yes they have million bigs but some of them will be removed after asset collection stage is over they will swap them for wings.

[DWhiteMamba]

Lauri and Garland haven't proven they aren't empty stats either.

[Lovetron Joe]

One would think if Ben was willing to be traded to a non-competing team, then the deal would already been completed. Every day that passes re-confirms that Klutch and Ben wont even talk to another team not on the list. Toronto, Minny, Portland, Sacramento, Cleveland and others have the assets, have shown the interest but still no smoke.

Klutch has a reputation to protect. When a star tells them he wants out, they say "where too?" and that the end of it. There is no way this does not end horribly for everyone involved. Still, Klutch will definitely win and the Sixers will definitely lose. Klutch will stand by their guy and fight tooth and nail to enforce their power. Philly will just get backlisted by all other agents.

It takes two to tangle. What team can use a guy like Simmons? Not that many, imo. I'm not saying he's not talented because he is, but he is so unique that not every team can just fit him into the lineup. Plus, the asking price is way too high.

.

The question is whether any team will take the massive gamble on him. Plenty of teams could use Simmons, but not in a way that justifies the price and he makes $33M. He is a top player as a point guard and an average player in every other position. No teams need a point guard except for the Clippers, and even then they have Bledsoe. Ben lives in LA and dates LA women. He wants to play in LA and not for the Lakers. Eventually, Philly will understand the futile situation and they will give into his demands.

Philly’s asking price is fair for the talent level, but no team will sign Ben without talking to him first. None.

Why would a team need to sign Ben?

[MasterIchiro]

I believe Cavs are a viable trade partner, but I just can't fathom a lineup with Allen, Simmons and Okoru not having spacing issues. Lauri and Garland aren't going to shoulder that burden. Mobley is an important piece to develop at the 5 but down the line I can see a Simmons trade requiring Allen be flipped for a wing spacer.

[cjmcallist]

I've been turning this one over many times. I'm sure everyone will hate it - I know my OKC friends will. But I've gotta get it off my chest. We can haggle on the pick protections, but for OKC they would need to be light-to-unprotected. As in, no more than top 3 prot, with some combos of unprotected.

CLE sends: Love, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP, 2028 FRP
CLE gets: Simmons
CLE why: get the young talent that they want without giving up a young player. They do take the risks of unprotected picks, but in theory they are a good team for a long time now. They also get rid of Love and shoot their shot at the playoffs. It's like spending 1 pick for Love and 2 picks for Simmons.

PHI sends: Simmons, 2023 FRP, 2027 FRP
PHI gets: SGA
PHI why: Some would argue Simmons and SGA are equal value, and they might be. The homer in me sees SGA as worth one pick more than Simmons. The second pick is because PHI has screwed themselves into a bad situation. SGA would be a godsend bail-out, and he definitely fits better with Embiid and is locked up for longer than Simmons.

OKC sends: SGA
OKC gets: Love, 2022 CLE, 2023 PHI, 2024 CLE, 2027 PHI, 2028 CLE
OKC why: SGA doesn't fit the master plan timeline. The main problem is that he makes OKC better this year. We need to be bad for this year +1. If we have bad lottery luck, it could be +2 or +3. Every +year that SGA is on the team, we are increasingly less likely to have lottery success. Getting CLE picks is as good as gold. That team is perpetually in the top 10 and it's worth taking a swing that they will be again. Getting 4 picks for SGA is a solid return. Eating Love's contract doesn't really matter if we're moving SGA.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't mean this to be overtly contrarian, but Simmons' inability, or unwillingness to shoot, makes his trade value much lower than the mod consensus.

Wasn't aware there is a mod consensus on Simmons? I don't actually see the other board mods commenting much on Simmons at all really. But admittedly I am higher on his value than most for sure.

And I agree Cleveland would rather trade Love/Sexton but that doesn't come close to getting Simmons imo and typically when you are trading for the best player you don't just get to give up the stuff you no longer want, but sometimes have to give up stuff you don't.

Now maybe it is Sexton and not Garland in the offer. I think that's reasonable. But I definitely think it has to be Rubio and not Love as the biggest piece of matching salary, no?

[Lovetron Joe]

Yes Warren is still out indefinately with a stress fracture in his foot. That is a huge red flag. The Sixers should stay far away from him.

[jbk1234]

I mean, if the Cavs are foolishly tossing in a bunch of unprotected picks, sure. For Sexton? I doubt it. If Sexton is good why on earth is he on the market? Why would Cleveland, a team that overpays everyone and everything in the hope of just being respectable, be looking to trade him before he's due to be paid? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

He's on the market because the Cavs have Garland. This isn't difficult.

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[JRoy]

I've been turning this one over many times. I'm sure everyone will hate it - I know my OKC friends will. But I've gotta get it off my chest. We can haggle on the pick protections, but for OKC they would need to be light-to-unprotected. As in, no more than top 3 prot, with some combos of unprotected.

CLE sends: Love, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP, 2028 FRP
CLE gets: Simmons
CLE why: get the young talent that they want without giving up a young player. They do take the risks of unprotected picks, but in theory they are a good team for a long time now. They also get rid of Love and shoot their shot at the playoffs. It's like spending 1 pick for Love and 2 picks for Simmons.

PHI sends: Simmons, 2023 FRP, 2027 FRP
PHI gets: SGA
PHI why: Some would argue Simmons and SGA are equal value, and they might be. The homer in me sees SGA as worth one pick more than Simmons. The second pick is because PHI has screwed themselves into a bad situation. SGA would be a godsend bail-out, and he definitely fits better with Embiid and is locked up for longer than Simmons.

OKC sends: SGA
OKC gets: Love, 2022 CLE, 2023 PHI, 2024 CLE, 2027 PHI, 2028 CLE
OKC why: SGA doesn't fit the master plan timeline. The main problem is that he makes OKC better this year. We need to be bad for this year +1. If we have bad lottery luck, it could be +2 or +3. Every +year that SGA is on the team, we are increasingly less likely to have lottery success. Getting CLE picks is as good as gold. That team is perpetually in the top 10 and it's worth taking a swing that they will be again. Getting 4 picks for SGA is a solid return. Eating Love's contract doesn't really matter if we're moving SGA.

I don’t think OKC is giving up SGA for Kevin Loves mummy and mediocre to bad picks.

[cool93]

I've been turning this one over many times. I'm sure everyone will hate it - I know my OKC friends will. But I've gotta get it off my chest. We can haggle on the pick protections, but for OKC they would need to be light-to-unprotected. As in, no more than top 3 prot, with some combos of unprotected.

CLE sends: Love, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP, 2028 FRP
CLE gets: Simmons
CLE why: get the young talent that they want without giving up a young player. They do take the risks of unprotected picks, but in theory they are a good team for a long time now. They also get rid of Love and shoot their shot at the playoffs. It's like spending 1 pick for Love and 2 picks for Simmons.

PHI sends: Simmons, 2023 FRP, 2027 FRP
PHI gets: SGA
PHI why: Some would argue Simmons and SGA are equal value, and they might be. The homer in me sees SGA as worth one pick more than Simmons. The second pick is because PHI has screwed themselves into a bad situation. SGA would be a godsend bail-out, and he definitely fits better with Embiid and is locked up for longer than Simmons.

OKC sends: SGA
OKC gets: Love, 2022 CLE, 2023 PHI, 2024 CLE, 2027 PHI, 2028 CLE
OKC why: SGA doesn't fit the master plan timeline. The main problem is that he makes OKC better this year. We need to be bad for this year +1. If we have bad lottery luck, it could be +2 or +3. Every +year that SGA is on the team, we are increasingly less likely to have lottery success. Getting CLE picks is as good as gold. That team is perpetually in the top 10 and it's worth taking a swing that they will be again. Getting 4 picks for SGA is a solid return. Eating Love's contract doesn't really matter if we're moving SGA.

If Sixers also got Sexton here, I'd probably do it

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[jbk1234]

I don't mean this to be overtly contrarian, but Simmons' inability, or unwillingness to shoot, makes his trade value much lower than the mod consensus.

Wasn't aware there is a mod consensus on Simmons? I don't actually see the other board mods commenting much on Simmons at all really. But admittedly I am higher on his value than most for sure.

And I agree Cleveland would rather trade Love/Sexton but that doesn't come close to getting Simmons imo and typically when you are trading for the best player you don't just get to give up the stuff you no longer want, but sometimes have to give up stuff you don't.

Now maybe it is Sexton and not Garland in the offer. I think that's reasonable. But I definitely think it has to be Rubio and not Love as the biggest piece of matching salary, no?

It really comes down to the overall value added to both teams. If they're both not better off making the trade, than not making the trade, then the trade doesn't happen. Ben's inability to shoot raises a lot of questions that smarter front offices will definitely ask.

In terms of value added, Simmons is simply worth more playing alongside Vuc, or Kat, or Turner than a more traditional center. It's why I think the Cavs are basically a stalking horse who will be asked to substitute alternative value in Sexton.

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[beb0p]

Say what you want about Cleveland but they just added a guy in Lauri that is one of the best fits in the league with Ben, and they currently have Love as well. Mobley will be able to stretch it as well. Cleveland fit is being severely understated just because of Allen

Huh? I never said Cleveland isn't a good fit with Simmons.

.

[Sportfan73]

Say what you want about Cleveland but they just added a guy in Lauri that is one of the best fits in the league with Ben, and they currently have Love as well. Mobley will be able to stretch it as well. Cleveland fit is being severely understated just because of Allen

Huh? I never said Cleveland isn't a good fit with Simmons.

.

Wasn’t intended to be directed at you my bad. Just people here in general

[ProcessDoctor]

I've been turning this one over many times. I'm sure everyone will hate it - I know my OKC friends will. But I've gotta get it off my chest. We can haggle on the pick protections, but for OKC they would need to be light-to-unprotected. As in, no more than top 3 prot, with some combos of unprotected.

CLE sends: Love, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP, 2028 FRP
CLE gets: Simmons
CLE why: get the young talent that they want without giving up a young player. They do take the risks of unprotected picks, but in theory they are a good team for a long time now. They also get rid of Love and shoot their shot at the playoffs. It's like spending 1 pick for Love and 2 picks for Simmons.

PHI sends: Simmons, 2023 FRP, 2027 FRP
PHI gets: SGA
PHI why: Some would argue Simmons and SGA are equal value, and they might be. The homer in me sees SGA as worth one pick more than Simmons. The second pick is because PHI has screwed themselves into a bad situation. SGA would be a godsend bail-out, and he definitely fits better with Embiid and is locked up for longer than Simmons.

OKC sends: SGA
OKC gets: Love, 2022 CLE, 2023 PHI, 2024 CLE, 2027 PHI, 2028 CLE
OKC why: SGA doesn't fit the master plan timeline. The main problem is that he makes OKC better this year. We need to be bad for this year +1. If we have bad lottery luck, it could be +2 or +3. Every +year that SGA is on the team, we are increasingly less likely to have lottery success. Getting CLE picks is as good as gold. That team is perpetually in the top 10 and it's worth taking a swing that they will be again. Getting 4 picks for SGA is a solid return. Eating Love's contract doesn't really matter if we're moving SGA.

If Sixers also got Sexton here, I'd probably do it

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We'd definitely do it bruh lol. Only issue is then getting out of Tobias's contract with Sexton due for a big extension.

[cjmcallist]

Spoiler:

I've been turning this one over many times. I'm sure everyone will hate it - I know my OKC friends will. But I've gotta get it off my chest. We can haggle on the pick protections, but for OKC they would need to be light-to-unprotected. As in, no more than top 3 prot, with some combos of unprotected.

CLE sends: Love, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP, 2028 FRP
CLE gets: Simmons
CLE why: get the young talent that they want without giving up a young player. They do take the risks of unprotected picks, but in theory they are a good team for a long time now. They also get rid of Love and shoot their shot at the playoffs. It's like spending 1 pick for Love and 2 picks for Simmons.

PHI sends: Simmons, 2023 FRP, 2027 FRP
PHI gets: SGA
PHI why: Some would argue Simmons and SGA are equal value, and they might be. The homer in me sees SGA as worth one pick more than Simmons. The second pick is because PHI has screwed themselves into a bad situation. SGA would be a godsend bail-out, and he definitely fits better with Embiid and is locked up for longer than Simmons.er]

OKC sends: SGA
OKC gets: Love, 2022 CLE, 2023 PHI, 2024 CLE, 2027 PHI, 2028 CLE
OKC why: SGA doesn't fit the master plan timeline. The main problem is that he makes OKC better this year. We need to be bad for this year +1. If we have bad lottery luck, it could be +2 or +3. Every +year that SGA is on the team, we are increasingly less likely to have lottery success. Getting CLE picks is as good as gold. That team is perpetually in the top 10 and it's worth taking a swing that they will be again. Getting 4 picks for SGA is a solid return. Eating Love's contract doesn't really matter if we're moving SGA.

I don’t think OKC is giving up SGA for Kevin Loves mummy and mediocre to bad picks.

Yeah, I can see why many wouldn't make the trade.

In defense of my thought process: I do think that at least one of those CLE picks will end up being good. Also, five FRP is nothing to scoff at. It's the PG/Harden+ package. More than Jrue. All for a player who I love, and I think he'll be an All Star, but he hasn't done it yet. Those guys were already All Stars when they were traded.

I also think OKC will struggle to find a premium asset for SGA. Teams drafting at the top won't want him (for the same reason OKC would be trading him).