Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[VanWest82]

Controversial opinion I suppose but I don’t understand the love this team has for Fred. He’s a streaky shooter, his passing skills and court vision are OK to below average, and he gets blocked at the rim due to being so small. He’s more of an under sized shooting guard. I know he’s a good guy and has leadership skills but I think he’s super replaceable personally. Anyway

He also hits big shots but you're only paying attention to one side of the floor. Fred is a terrific defender, especially in Nurse's system.

That's fine, if he didn't have such a big load on offense. I still remember him trying to go iso for the game winning shot in game 6 of the bubble playoffs after Kyle got fouled out and getting blocked by Grant Williams (believe it was Grant Williams could have been Tatum).

I've been saying it for a couple years. He NEEDS to add a floater to his game or at least become somewhat consistent at finishing near the rim. If that part of his game doesn't evolve then his ceiling is set (unless he starts taking like 11-12+ threes a game).

He needs to get better in the MR area too. The problem the last couple of years was so many nights Fred was the only guy who could reliably beat his man off the dribble. Kyle turned the clock back vs. bubble Celtics but couldn't do it physically night to night. Pascal and Norm didn't have the moves so it fell on Fred. This is where not having a star really hurts.

Hopefully Siakam and OG continue working on their handle and Malachi takes step forward so we have more options.

[720]

I think people are not operating in reality when it comes to the fourth pick.

The last 4th pick to get more than 2 all star appearances was Russell Westbrook, more than a decade ago.

It’s why passing on Suggs was such a shock because he would be a top 3 pick in most drafts.

Do I think they picked Scottie to be a future first option player ? Maybe, do I think they would be more than happy if he was a career 15/7/5 guy with DPOY caliber of defence ? Absolutely.

The #1 option of the future isn’t on this team yet, we’ll make trades to get that player. Right now, the main focus is developing our young players who aren’t Siakam and FVV so that when we do pull a trade a #1 option, the young boys will be ready to help him win a chip.

Why is this expected? Because we got Kyle through a trade and Kawhi through a once in a life time trade?

The market has changed for a superstar since that once in a generation Kawhi trade. You need to trade at a minimum multiple future first round picks. The draft is what we should be focused on. Not some hope and a prayer miracle trade.

Because that’s how Masai operate. He’s not going to sit on his ass and hope Siakam becomes a clear #1 on a contender.

He develops players while being extremely flexible to any sudden potential trades. It’s how his teams always operated, from the Denver Nuggets days.

I'll repeat again, the market for superstars has changed. Teams are giving up 4-5+ 1st round picks with pick swaps to get these guys. Even the AD trade that featured a lot of player movement also included the lakers No.4 pick in the 2019 draft, and FOUR unprotected future 1st round picks (with swaps).

We should try to get lotto picks and add talent to this already young core. Build through our own development system.

[mademan]

I could see Raps deciding to tank if theyre looking below average this season (which is likely) vs going all out to make the play in. That said, anybody hoping for an all out tank from game 1 will be disappointed. They might pivot to it and they might be prepared to go in that direction, but theyre gonna give the squad a chance to surprise first.

[Basketball_Jones]

I’m optimistic, but the East is tough this year. Hard to see us leap frogging anybody but we will see

[kalel123]

I think people are not operating in reality when it comes to the fourth pick.

The last 4th pick to get more than 2 all star appearances was Russell Westbrook, more than a decade ago.

It’s why passing on Suggs was such a shock because he would be a top 3 pick in most drafts.

Do I think they picked Scottie to be a future first option player ? Maybe, do I think they would be more than happy if he was a career 15/7/5 guy with DPOY caliber of defence ? Absolutely.

The #1 option of the future isn’t on this team yet, we’ll make trades to get that player. Right now, the main focus is developing our young players who aren’t Siakam and FVV so that when we do pull a trade a #1 option, the young boys will be ready to help him win a chip.

Why is this expected? Because we got Kyle through a trade and Kawhi through a once in a life time trade?

The market has changed for a superstar since that once in a generation Kawhi trade. You need to trade at a minimum multiple future first round picks. The draft is what we should be focused on. Not some hope and a prayer miracle trade.

I think people need to understand that as things stand now, Jalen Suggs likely wasn't going to be a #1 option for anybody hoping to contend. And that's not a slight to Suggs because Lowry wasn't one either. If that's what you were looking for, #4 pick in this draft was the wrong place to look. Rather, you are just picking whoever you think will be the best overall player and Raptors brass thought Barnes was that guy but neither Suggs nor Barnes were projected to develop to #1 option. Maybe you say Suggs has a better chance to be more offensively productive but doesn't mean he has a high chance to develop into #1 option.

And trading for a #1 option isn't expected. But that's the next most likely way forward if you don't run into one in the draft. Instead of pouting and whining that you weren't lucky enough to find one in the draft, you look for other ways to do it. Yeah, some idiot teams have made it unsustainable to trade for stars at the moment unless you got another budding star already in place to pair with but things don't always stand still in the NBA. In the meantime, it's important to continue to build up your asset base to strike when opportunity is there, which IMO is what this team is and should be doing.

[HumbleRen]

Why is this expected? Because we got Kyle through a trade and Kawhi through a once in a life time trade?

The market has changed for a superstar since that once in a generation Kawhi trade. You need to trade at a minimum multiple future first round picks. The draft is what we should be focused on. Not some hope and a prayer miracle trade.

Because that’s how Masai operate. He’s not going to sit on his ass and hope Siakam becomes a clear #1 on a contender.

He develops players while being extremely flexible to any sudden potential trades. It’s how his teams always operated, from the Denver Nuggets days.

I'll repeat again, the market for superstars has changed. Teams are giving up 4-5+ 1st round picks with pick swaps to get these guys. Even the AD trade that featured a lot of player movement also included the lakers No.4 pick in the 2019 draft, and FOUR unprotected future 1st round picks (with swaps).

We should try to get lotto picks and add talent to this already young core. Build through our own development system.

A first option doesn’t have to be a superstar, it could easily be a top 3 pick in a draft, etc etc

We’re saying the same thing, I’m basically saying Masai isn’t done and that he’s going to continue to make moves like he doesn’t have a #1 option on the team. I’m 100% confident that he’s not content with Scottie being our future.

[kalel123]

I could see Raps deciding to tank if theyre looking below average this season (which is likely) vs going all out to make the play in. That said, anybody hoping for an all out tank from game 1 will be disappointed. They might pivot to it and they might be prepared to go in that direction, but theyre gonna give the squad a chance to surprise first.

Going to be similar to last season basically. Give them a chance to show what they can do then decide what to do from there.

[HumbleRen]

I think people are not operating in reality when it comes to the fourth pick.

The last 4th pick to get more than 2 all star appearances was Russell Westbrook, more than a decade ago.

It’s why passing on Suggs was such a shock because he would be a top 3 pick in most drafts.

Do I think they picked Scottie to be a future first option player ? Maybe, do I think they would be more than happy if he was a career 15/7/5 guy with DPOY caliber of defence ? Absolutely.

The #1 option of the future isn’t on this team yet, we’ll make trades to get that player. Right now, the main focus is developing our young players who aren’t Siakam and FVV so that when we do pull a trade a #1 option, the young boys will be ready to help him win a chip.

Why is this expected? Because we got Kyle through a trade and Kawhi through a once in a life time trade?

The market has changed for a superstar since that once in a generation Kawhi trade. You need to trade at a minimum multiple future first round picks. The draft is what we should be focused on. Not some hope and a prayer miracle trade.

I think people need to understand that as things stand now, Jalen Suggs likely wasn't going to be a #1 option for anybody hoping to contend. And that's not a slight to Suggs because Lowry wasn't one either. If that's what you were looking for, #4 pick in this draft was the wrong place to look. Rather, you are just picking whoever you think will be the best overall player and Raptors brass thought Barnes was that guy but neither Suggs nor Barnes were projected to develop to #1 option. Maybe you say Suggs has a better chance to be more offensively productive but doesn't mean he has a high chance to develop into #1 option.

And trading for a #1 option isn't expected. But that's the next most likely way forward if you don't run into one in the draft. Instead of pouting and whining that you weren't lucky enough to find one in the draft, you look for other ways to do it. Yeah, some idiot teams have made it unsustainable to trade for stars at the moment unless you got another budding star already in place to pair with but things don't always stand still in the NBA. In the meantime, it's important to continue to build up your asset base to strike when opportunity is there, which IMO is what this team is and should be doing.

Perfectly said, that’s exactly my thought process but you just said it in a better way.

[720]

I think people are not operating in reality when it comes to the fourth pick.

The last 4th pick to get more than 2 all star appearances was Russell Westbrook, more than a decade ago.

It’s why passing on Suggs was such a shock because he would be a top 3 pick in most drafts.

Do I think they picked Scottie to be a future first option player ? Maybe, do I think they would be more than happy if he was a career 15/7/5 guy with DPOY caliber of defence ? Absolutely.

The #1 option of the future isn’t on this team yet, we’ll make trades to get that player. Right now, the main focus is developing our young players who aren’t Siakam and FVV so that when we do pull a trade a #1 option, the young boys will be ready to help him win a chip.

Why is this expected? Because we got Kyle through a trade and Kawhi through a once in a life time trade?

The market has changed for a superstar since that once in a generation Kawhi trade. You need to trade at a minimum multiple future first round picks. The draft is what we should be focused on. Not some hope and a prayer miracle trade.

I think people need to understand that as things stand now, Jalen Suggs likely wasn't going to be a #1 option for anybody hoping to contend. And that's not a slight to Suggs because Lowry wasn't one either. If that's what you were looking for, #4 pick in this draft was the wrong place to look. Rather, you are just picking whoever you think will be the best overall player and Raptors brass thought Barnes was that guy but neither Suggs nor Barnes were projected to develop to #1 option. Maybe you say Suggs has a better chance to be more offensively productive but doesn't mean he has a high chance to develop into #1 option.

And trading for a #1 option isn't expected. But that's the next most likely way forward if you don't run into one in the draft. Instead of pouting and whining that you weren't lucky enough to find one in the draft, you look for other ways to do it. Yeah, some idiot teams have made it unsustainable to trade for stars at the moment unless you got another budding star already in place to pair with but things don't always stand still in the NBA. In the meantime, it's important to continue to build up your asset base to strike when opportunity is there, which IMO is what this team is and should be doing.

It's a lot more realistic to go all in on the draft then build up assets to then trade everything for a superstar and then hope whatever pieces that are left around said star is enough to compete. We'll see where the raptors are talent wise this season. If they're near the bottom the best approach is to lean into to the draft and pick up another stud.

It's fine to have trade aspirations but to act like it's a given is wrong imo. Especially nowadays with players demanding certain places and teams requiring multiple 1st round picks.

[HumbleRen]

Why is this expected? Because we got Kyle through a trade and Kawhi through a once in a life time trade?

The market has changed for a superstar since that once in a generation Kawhi trade. You need to trade at a minimum multiple future first round picks. The draft is what we should be focused on. Not some hope and a prayer miracle trade.

I think people need to understand that as things stand now, Jalen Suggs likely wasn't going to be a #1 option for anybody hoping to contend. And that's not a slight to Suggs because Lowry wasn't one either. If that's what you were looking for, #4 pick in this draft was the wrong place to look. Rather, you are just picking whoever you think will be the best overall player and Raptors brass thought Barnes was that guy but neither Suggs nor Barnes were projected to develop to #1 option. Maybe you say Suggs has a better chance to be more offensively productive but doesn't mean he has a high chance to develop into #1 option.

And trading for a #1 option isn't expected. But that's the next most likely way forward if you don't run into one in the draft. Instead of pouting and whining that you weren't lucky enough to find one in the draft, you look for other ways to do it. Yeah, some idiot teams have made it unsustainable to trade for stars at the moment unless you got another budding star already in place to pair with but things don't always stand still in the NBA. In the meantime, it's important to continue to build up your asset base to strike when opportunity is there, which IMO is what this team is and should be doing.

It's a lot more realistic to go all in on the draft then build up assets to then trade everything for a superstar and then hope whatever pieces that are left around said star is enough to compete. We'll see where the raptors are talent wise this season. If they're near the bottom the best approach is to lean into to the draft and pick up another stud.

It's fine to have trade aspirations but to act like it's a given is wrong imo. Especially nowadays with players demanding certain places and teams requiring multiple 1st round picks.

Either way they’ll make a trade lol. If the team isn’t showing any semblance of being a contender within the next 2 years, Masai will be trading Siakam and FVV away anyways.

[720]

I think people need to understand that as things stand now, Jalen Suggs likely wasn't going to be a #1 option for anybody hoping to contend. And that's not a slight to Suggs because Lowry wasn't one either. If that's what you were looking for, #4 pick in this draft was the wrong place to look. Rather, you are just picking whoever you think will be the best overall player and Raptors brass thought Barnes was that guy but neither Suggs nor Barnes were projected to develop to #1 option. Maybe you say Suggs has a better chance to be more offensively productive but doesn't mean he has a high chance to develop into #1 option.

And trading for a #1 option isn't expected. But that's the next most likely way forward if you don't run into one in the draft. Instead of pouting and whining that you weren't lucky enough to find one in the draft, you look for other ways to do it. Yeah, some idiot teams have made it unsustainable to trade for stars at the moment unless you got another budding star already in place to pair with but things don't always stand still in the NBA. In the meantime, it's important to continue to build up your asset base to strike when opportunity is there, which IMO is what this team is and should be doing.

It's a lot more realistic to go all in on the draft then build up assets to then trade everything for a superstar and then hope whatever pieces that are left around said star is enough to compete. We'll see where the raptors are talent wise this season. If they're near the bottom the best approach is to lean into to the draft and pick up another stud.

It's fine to have trade aspirations but to act like it's a given is wrong imo. Especially nowadays with players demanding certain places and teams requiring multiple 1st round picks.

Either way they’ll make a trade lol. If the team isn’t showing any semblance of being a contender within the next 2 years, Masai will be trading Siakam and FVV away anyways.

I agree.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

There is a large gap between #1 option and role players.

Oh yeah, totally. He's a few years away.

But like, even if we disagree about were we see him long term. His making that team(USA) means a lot of top notch coaches and scouts are on board with him. It's not like he's coming in from Italy and nobody's heard or seen much of him. He's as vetted as it gets for a prospect at four.

[NBA Sheady]

Da yutes

That might fly pre Championship, post it's called an "inferior product". It's followed by a lot of canceled season tickets, a reduction in prices and subscription packages.

It's a very reasonable theory but I'm willing to bet empirical data doesn't support it.

For me, the glow of that championship is going to last several years. I actually have lower expectations because of it and always expected Kawhi was a rental.

[Duffman100]

There is a large gap between #1 option and role players.

Oh yeah, totally. He's a few years away.

But like, even if we disagree about were we see him long term. His making that team(USA) means a lot of top notch coaches and scouts are on board with him. It's not like he's coming in from Italy and nobody's heard or seen much of him. He's as vetted as it gets for a prospect at four.

I mean hey, if he becomes a #1 option, giddy up cowboy.

[DelAbbot]

TWO!

I had to get that off my chest

[WuTang_OG]

Nurse will find magic in the bottle this season

[vulture]

This roster is basically in the same tier as the knicks, celtics, wizards, pacers and bulls.

[Duffman100]

Nurse will find magic in the bottle this season

FVV/Trent/OG/Siakam/Birch ->. Biggest weakness is shot creation but hopefully Trent and OG developing will help.

Our biggest issue last year was our **** bench.

Dragic / Flynn / Barnes / Boucher / Precious / Yuta

Can Boucher find the shooting stroke he had early in the year?
How good is Barnes?
How good is Precious?
Will Flynn run the offense or try and score too much?
Will Dragic play with us?
Can Yuta be consistent?

So many questions with lot of upside potential.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

It's a very reasonable theory but I'm willing to bet empirical data doesn't support it.

For me, the glow of that championship is going to last several years. I actually have lower expectations because of it and always expected Kawhi was a rental.

I'd guarantee profit takes a dump.

Those seat prices aren't sustainable either if that's the route they pick. It's going to be a hard enough sell with what's going on to convince people to show up.

[KrazyP]

Team treadmill in shambles.

And team tank will be in the game threads crying after every win. Should be a fun season.

Masai basically said nothing we dont already know. The average age of the rotation players is something like 23-24. Obviously there will be growing pains. The offense is going to be butt ugly at times.

The team will come out and try to compete for the first half of the season and then make an assessment on tanking after the all-star break.

Damn remember the days when Treadmill nation said we would NEVER tank and that we had to preserve winning culture? Ah good times.

Let’s just hope if Masai does intend to tank he does a better job than last season (albeit we did okay by getting lucky and jumping 3 spots so no complaints here just saying let’s make that push for bottom 6).

Winning culture is important. The team is not going to start the season trying to lose games like Tank Nation wants. I will see you in the game threads in tears after every win. Cheers.