Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Texas Chuck]

I think if the Sixers had any interest in Rubio, the Timberwolves would have never traded him.

I'm not saying the Timberwolves made a mistake, but they might have made a mistake. Philly should need a PG back, don't they?

I strongly suspect that the Wolves and Sixers discussed trades involving Rubio. If Philly had shown any indication he would be a valued part of a trade package there is no way Rosas would have moved him (since the Wolves whole off-season seems to be centered around positioning themselves for a Simmons trade). I'll be more than a little surprised if Rubio ends up with the Sixers.

I'd be surprised too. If the idea is you can't keep Simmons because he doesn't shoot and isn't aggressive enough looking to score you don't solve that issue by bringing in Rubio.

But I think its possible that the Sixers are resigned to a different sort of deal now than they were when Minny swapped Rubio for Prince. And if Cleveland ends up being the team who gets him there is no path that doesn't include Rubio in their outgoing package.

I just think he'd be rerouted for something else.

[BoogieTime]

The question is whether any team will take the massive gamble on him. Plenty of teams could use Simmons, but not in a way that justifies the price and he makes $33M. He is a top player as a point guard and an average player in every other position. No teams need a point guard except for the Clippers, and even then they have Bledsoe. Ben lives in LA and dates LA women. He wants to play in LA and not for the Lakers. Eventually, Philly will understand the futile situation and they will give into his demands.

Philly’s asking price is fair for the talent level, but no team will sign Ben without talking to him first. None.

Why would a team need to sign Ben?

My point is that Ben would be signed to a different team and that team will want to talk with him first before any trade happens. Very few teams will trade or sign for a player that openly does not want to be there, regardless of their contract status.

As someone who supports a team on Ben's shortlist and who likes Ben's talent, I think the fact that he's signed for 4 more years negates a lot of his preference.

I'd hope if all things were equal, it would encourage a team on his shortlist to be a tad more aggressive than the suitors not on his shortlist, but by and large it probably wont be a deal breaker.

Its not going to be the difference of the Clippers being able to cobble some deal without Kawhi/George, though.

[the_process]

I'm not saying the Timberwolves made a mistake, but they might have made a mistake. Philly should need a PG back, don't they?

I strongly suspect that the Wolves and Sixers discussed trades involving Rubio. If Philly had shown any indication he would be a valued part of a trade package there is no way Rosas would have moved him (since the Wolves whole off-season seems to be centered around positioning themselves for a Simmons trade). I'll be more than a little surprised if Rubio ends up with the Sixers.

I'd be surprised too. If the idea is you can't keep Simmons because he doesn't shoot and isn't aggressive enough looking to score you don't solve that issue by bringing in Rubio.

But I think its possible that the Sixers are resigned to a different sort of deal now than they were when Minny swapped Rubio for Prince. And if Cleveland ends up being the team who gets him there is no path that doesn't include Rubio in their outgoing package.

I just think he'd be rerouted for something else.

Rubio actually would make some sense for the Sixers, they will need a ballhandler and he would allow Curry to start.

[jbk1234]

Neither Rubio nor Prince can be aggregated until October 1st. Lauri can't be aggregated unti the end of October. I assume it's the same for Beverly.

As Simmons is scheduled to be paid the first half of his salary on October 1st, I have to imagine the Sixers would prefer his new team pay it.
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[NYG]

Neither Rubio nor Prince can be aggregated until October 1st. Lauri can't be aggregated unti the end of October. I assume it's the same for Beverly.

As Simmons is scheduled to be paid the first half of his salary on October 1st, I have to imagine the Sixers would prefer his new team pay it.
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What would it cost to dump Love outright? Would Cleveland include that in a Love and Sexton for Simmons swap?

[jbk1234]

Neither Rubio nor Prince can be aggregated until October 1st. Lauri can't be aggregated unti the end of October. I assume it's the same for Beverly.

As Simmons is scheduled to be paid the first half of his salary on October 1st, I have to imagine the Sixers would prefer his new team pay it.
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What would it cost to dump Love outright? Would Cleveland include that in a Love and Sexton for Simmons swap?

If a team like OKC would take him for a top 3 protected pick, maybe. But I suspect that that Sixers are going to want at least one first for themselves, and multiple firsts and Sexton are where I'd get off the train.

I really feel like the Wolves should be outbidding the Cavs here. They're on the clock with KAT and Simmons can slide right in at the 4. It's a perfect fit.

If everything is lined up ahead of time, you can execute a trade involving either Prince or Rubio at 12:01 and pass along the financial obligation.

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[shrink]

They're on the clock with KAT and Simmons can slide right in at the 4. It's a perfect fit.

The two biggest myths about MIN, in one convenient package.

Towns has never even grumbled about being in Minnesota. Even during the Jimmy fiasco, he never said a single negative word. MIN brought in DLo which thrilled KAT, and while people say that’s why DLO can’t be traded, they never say it’s why KAT won’t. Towns is excited with the upside of Edwards in the second half, and the three seemed to be able to all get theirs without hurting each other. Towns views MIN’s lack of success as his own personal dragon to slay, and is very excited of getting to play with DLO next season with both healthy. If you’ve seen pictures of Towns this summer, he is super fit. With three years on his deal (Towns didn’t even ask for a player option for Year 5!), I don’t think MIN is anywhere close to even a Lillard situation.

And the “perfect fit” next to Towns, at a minimum, needs to be able to shoot three pointers and draw a defender to the three point line, so that MIN doesn’t lose it’s matchup advantage with KAT inside and outside, and clog up Edwards’ drives. Simmons defense would certainly help the team, but his inability/unwillingness to shoot really hurts - people need to stop using the term “perfect.”

[Tomjas]

Why would a team need to sign Ben?

My point is that Ben would be signed to a different team and that team will want to talk with him first before any trade happens. Very few teams will trade or sign for a player that openly does not want to be there, regardless of their contract status.

As someone who supports a team on Ben's shortlist and who likes Ben's talent, I think the fact that he's signed for 4 more years negates a lot of his preference.

I'd hope if all things were equal, it would encourage a team on his shortlist to be a tad more aggressive than the suitors not on his shortlist, but by and large it probably wont be a deal breaker.

Its not going to be the difference of the Clippers being able to cobble some deal without Kawhi/George, though.

The Sixers are the only team not on his shortlist

[BoogieTime]

My point is that Ben would be signed to a different team and that team will want to talk with him first before any trade happens. Very few teams will trade or sign for a player that openly does not want to be there, regardless of their contract status.

As someone who supports a team on Ben's shortlist and who likes Ben's talent, I think the fact that he's signed for 4 more years negates a lot of his preference.

I'd hope if all things were equal, it would encourage a team on his shortlist to be a tad more aggressive than the suitors not on his shortlist, but by and large it probably wont be a deal breaker.

Its not going to be the difference of the Clippers being able to cobble some deal without Kawhi/George, though.

The Sixers are the only team not on his shortlist

According to Chris Broussard, not the person covering the Sixers for a living who has reputable standing on scoops

[DoItALL9]

Cleveland gets Kenrich Williams for Kevin Love and Collin Sexton

-Cavaliers would create a huge trade exception without really losing any assets and without having to extend/re-sign Sexton. Williams would be a nice fit.

Houston gets Taurean Prince for Eric Gordon

-Rockets simply save money and only agree to deal with Morey to help an old friend get Simmons in the process.

Minnesota gets Ben Simmons for Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, Unprotected 2022 First Round Draft Pick, Unprotected 2024 First Round Draft Pick and Top 5 Protected 2026 Minnesota Timberwolves First Round Draft Pick (Top 5 Protected 2027 and Unprotected 2028)

-Minnesota keeps Edwards, Russell, Towns, McDaniels, Beasley, etc. and adds Simmons. That team could be really solid if they have/find the right coach.

Oklahoma City gets Kevin Love and 2026 Top 5 Protected Minnesota Timberwolves First Round Draft Pick (Top 5 Protected 2027 and Unprotected 2028) for Kenrich Williams

-Presti gets another legit asset for taking on money.

Philadelphia gets Collin Sexton, Eric Gordon, Patrick Beverley, 2022 Unprotected Minnesota Timberwolves First Round Draft Pick and 2024 Unprotected Minnesota Timberwolves First Round Draft Pick

-Morey gets potentially a better fitting guy that could be a legit co-star to Embiid and be beloved in Philly. Morey also brings in some of his favorite vets into the locker room and adds two firsts for a bigger deal later on.

Does Minnesota balk if they are required to make all the picks unprotected and include 2028?

And add in pick swaps for the in-between years? Who gets them, Philly or OKC?

(I'd say they should still do it.)

Also, I'd like to hear some opinions on Kenrich Williams' value.


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[SharpyShuffle]

They're on the clock with KAT and Simmons can slide right in at the 4. It's a perfect fit.

The two biggest myths about MIN, in one convenient package.

Towns has never even grumbled about being in Minnesota. Even during the Jimmy fiasco, he never said a single negative word. MIN brought in DLo which thrilled KAT, and while people say that’s why DLO can’t be traded, they never say it’s why KAT won’t. Towns is excited with the upside of Edwards in the second half, and the three seemed to be able to all get theirs without hurting each other. Towns views MIN’s lack of success as his own personal dragon to slay, and is very excited of getting to play with DLO next season with both healthy. If you’ve seen pictures of Towns this summer, he is super fit. With three years on his deal (Towns didn’t even ask for a player option for Year 5!), I don’t think MIN is anywhere close to even a Lillard situation.

And the “perfect fit” next to Towns, at a minimum, needs to be able to shoot three pointers and draw a defender to the three point line, so that MIN doesn’t lose it’s matchup advantage with KAT inside and outside, and clog up Edwards’ drives. Simmons defense would certainly help the team, but his inability/unwillingness to shoot really hurts - people need to stop using the term “perfect.”

This reads like honest-to-god propaganda.

Being on the clock isn't just about KAT leaving anyway, it's about him not being *that* young anymore and the fact that it's very rare for teams to jump from bottom feeders to contenders without going through a few intermediate steps over the course of several. If you ever want to contend with KAT, you need to at least achieve the first step -reaching the playoffs and not being completely embarrassed in the first round- at some point in the near future.

It's easy to say 'well he's only 25 and he's under contract for 3 more years' but you're not going to go from zeros to contenders overnight, if you want to look like even fringe contenders before his contract expires you really need to show the first glimmers of that potential this season.

[Tomjas]

As someone who supports a team on Ben's shortlist and who likes Ben's talent, I think the fact that he's signed for 4 more years negates a lot of his preference.

I'd hope if all things were equal, it would encourage a team on his shortlist to be a tad more aggressive than the suitors not on his shortlist, but by and large it probably wont be a deal breaker.

Its not going to be the difference of the Clippers being able to cobble some deal without Kawhi/George, though.

The Sixers are the only team not on his shortlist

According to Chris Broussard, not the person covering the Sixers for a living who has reputable standing on scoops

Not that he’s got much choice but why would he choose the Kings?

Average roster with little cap space and coached by a guy whom his friend had sacked by the Lakers

I would take virtually everything written about Simmons with a healthy dose of skepticism until it actually happens

[BoogieTime]

The Sixers are the only team not on his shortlist

According to Chris Broussard, not the person covering the Sixers for a living who has reputable standing on scoops

Not that he’s got much choice but why would he choose the Kings?

Average roster with little cap space and coached by a guy whom his friend had sacked by the Lakers

I would take virtually everything written about Simmons with a healthy dose of skepticism until it actually happens

?. California, obviously

[Tomjas]

According to Chris Broussard, not the person covering the Sixers for a living who has reputable standing on scoops

Not that he’s got much choice but why would he choose the Kings?

Average roster with little cap space and coached by a guy whom his friend had sacked by the Lakers

I would take virtually everything written about Simmons with a healthy dose of skepticism until it actually happens

Not only was it a bogus report but there’s other teams within relatively short distance of LA but in other states

Kings make no sense for Ben at all

?. California, obviously

[BoogieTime]

Not that he’s got much choice but why would he choose the Kings?

Average roster with little cap space and coached by a guy whom his friend had sacked by the Lakers

I would take virtually everything written about Simmons with a healthy dose of skepticism until it actually happens

Not only was it a bogus report but there’s other teams within relatively short distance of LA but in other states

Kings make no sense for Ben at all

?. California, obviously

Multiple Philadelphia writers, Keith Pompey and Jason Dumas have reported the same idea.

So its multiple Sixers local writers or one national reporter (Broussard) who isnt overly respected.

[babyjax13]

Cavs signing Pangos to a two year deal is a little odd considering they already have three point guards on the roster. If we want to get highly speculative, maybe they have a hole at backup point guard that is about to open up with Rubio/Sextion/stuff going to Philly for Simmons.

[jbk1234]

Cavs signing Pangos to a two year deal is a little odd considering they already have three point guards on the roster. If we want to get highly speculative, maybe they have a hole at backup point guard that is about to open up with Rubio/Sextion/stuff going to Philly for Simmons.

Sexton's not a PG.

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[zimpy27]

Cavs signing Pangos to a two year deal is a little odd considering they already have three point guards on the roster. If we want to get highly speculative, maybe they have a hole at backup point guard that is about to open up with Rubio/Sextion/stuff going to Philly for Simmons.

Bingo Pango

[babyjax13]

Cavs signing Pangos to a two year deal is a little odd considering they already have three point guards on the roster. If we want to get highly speculative, maybe they have a hole at backup point guard that is about to open up with Rubio/Sextion/stuff going to Philly for Simmons.

Sexton's not a PG.

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I realize that he is a small shooting guard, but he still gets minutes at the 1, and if one of Garland/Rubio got hurt, likely would play more.

[babyjax13]

I kind of want a really random team like Detroit to step in, but unless they are trading Grant, they don't have enough salary they can aggregate until quite far in the season.