[Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson

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Re: [Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson 

Post#41 » by Dutchball97 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 7:28 pm

Odinn21 wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:There is a difference between questioning stats because of context like changing roles within a team, strength of teammates and the state of the league/opponents and a near complete dismissal of stats like you did because of those factors.

Edited my last post (probably while you were typing this post of yours). I know I had no intentions to be dismissive, and while knowing my intention from within, I didn't take it the way you did but looking back at it, it's obvious my wording was poor. Sorry for the tone.


It's alright. I think this thread so far has shown we all still have plenty of room to learn about previous eras and this exercise has really helped with that so I was a bit afraid this process of learning was being thrown away in favor of a more rigorous and heated kind of exact ranking debates like we had in the top 100 project.
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Re: [Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson 

Post#42 » by Odinn21 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 7:58 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
Odinn21 wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:There is a difference between questioning stats because of context like changing roles within a team, strength of teammates and the state of the league/opponents and a near complete dismissal of stats like you did because of those factors.

Edited my last post (probably while you were typing this post of yours). I know I had no intentions to be dismissive, and while knowing my intention from within, I didn't take it the way you did but looking back at it, it's obvious my wording was poor. Sorry for the tone.


It's alright. I think this thread so far has shown we all still have plenty of room to learn about previous eras and this exercise has really helped with that so I was a bit afraid this process of learning was being thrown away in favor of a more rigorous and heated kind of exact ranking debates like we had in the top 100 project.

Maybe we should switch to some film studies. :D






These are some solid performances from Magic in each season in discussion. 2 won games by decent margins (+12 & +13) and 2 close games (+1 & -2).

Some observations about Magic;
He spent more effort on D in 1986 than 1988. But he was rather clunky and anxious about what he was doing, especially when he was forced to defend easy 2v2 on the low block. He was focused on the ball like he was afraid of doing something wrong rather than doing it by instinctively. Despite having a higher motor, it's hard to put his D in '86 clearly above. 1988 was the last season before he started to let go on D because he realised he could get away with his O.
1986 team had way more offensive weapons to utilise (they had around 12 plays in their playbook they could get .510+ ppp) because they had Kareem occupying low post. 1988 team was much more limited in terms of variety in their offense (only 7 plays on that level, all of them dependant on Magic). Magic was operating quite a bit from the down block and he was bringing the ball to the half court considerably less than 1986 just to position himself on the low block as a scoring threat.
Magic's playmaking and creation volumes were just on another level in 1988.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson 

Post#43 » by Odinn21 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 9:40 am

4 hours and 20 minutes left on the clock.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson 

Post#44 » by coastalmarker99 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 10:22 am

1. 1964 Russell

2. 1965 Russell

3. 1987 Magic

4. 1991 Magic

5. 1962 Russell

6. 1966 Russell

7. 1961 Russell

8. 1988 Magic

9. 1989 Magic

10 1960 Russell

11. 1986 Magic

12. 1960 Russell
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
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Re: [Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson 

Post#45 » by Odinn21 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 2:09 pm

Bill Russell vs. Magic Johnson results;

Code: Select all

1.  112 points / 0.933 share / '65 Bill Russell
2.  110 points / 0.917 share / '62 Bill Russell
3.   87 points / 0.725 share / '87 Magic Johnson
3.   87 points / 0.725 share / '64 Bill Russell
5.   79 points / 0.658 share / '63 Bill Russell
6.   72 points / 0.650 share / '90 Magic Johnson
7.   48 points / 0.400 share / '60 Bill Russell
8.   39 points / 0.325 share / '89 Magic Johnson
9.   33 points / 0.275 share / '91 Magic Johnson
10.  25 points / 0.278 share / '66 Bill Russell
11.  24 points / 0.200 share / '61 Bill Russell
11.  24 points / 0.200 share / '88 Magic Johnson

13.  22 points / 0.183 share / '86 Magic Johnson
14.  12 points / 0.100 share / '59 Bill Russell
15.   4 points / 0.033 share / '82 Magic Johnson
16.   2 points / 0.017 share / '85 Magic Johnson


Points within top 12 seasons voted;
Bill Russell 52 - 28 Magic Johnson

Point totals in top 12 seasons voted;
Bill Russell 485 - 255 Magic Johnson

Winner: Bill Russell


Results on Google Sheets
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: [Project:Primes of the top 10 ever] List the top 12 seasons between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson 

Post#46 » by ceiling raiser » Thu Sep 9, 2021 11:28 pm

Really fascinating that 91 Magic makes the consensus top 10 of their combined best years. Shows that Magic was very much in his prime when he had to bow out.
Now that's the difference between first and last place.

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