Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[sixers4real]

I predict Morey will get a very decent return for Simmons from now until deadline. Most probably December or January.
A return that will eventually make us contenders in 2023-24-25.

Maybe it will be Fox, maybe picks that will turn into star (Ingram) one day.

Stay strong bro.
What Morey has to do is try not to upset too many GM's by bluntly refusing their offers - hope the guy has more tact than seems reported - hope he dosen't BlackBall himself.

Unlike most people here I am perfectly fine with Ben Simmons not playing rather then receiving a trash offer which doesn't move the needle for us at all.

If that takes multiple months or even until the end of next season that is fine by me. He's got 4 years. Why is everyone panicking and pretending we have to move him tomorrow?

I’m with you bro

[sixers4real]

I predict Morey will get a very decent return for Simmons from now until deadline. Most probably December or January.
A return that will eventually make us contenders in 2023-24-25.

Maybe it will be Fox, maybe picks that will turn into star (Ingram) one day.

Stay strong bro.
What Morey has to do is try not to upset too many GM's by bluntly refusing their offers - hope the guy has more tact than seems reported - hope he dosen't BlackBall himself.

Unlike most people here I am perfectly fine with Ben Simmons not playing rather then receiving a trash offer which doesn't move the needle for us at all.

If that takes multiple months or even until the end of next season that is fine by me. He's got 4 years. Why is everyone panicking and pretending we have to move him tomorrow?

I’m with you bro

[mzfk69]

Would’ve negotiated more with San Antonio and Toronto. Could’ve easily gotten to the finish line on a deal with either of them based on those starting points IMO.

I don’t know that Toronto offers much more. Maybe a pick or something. I like FVV a lot tho.

I think a deal with SA could be had if you like the basic structure and a few picks. My guess is Morey asked for a lot more tho.

Trent would’ve been difficult to make work as he was a FA, therefore a S&T which hard caps you. But I feel like before the draft you could’ve got something done with Siakam and VanVleet. OG, VanVleet, and Dragic would’ve worked too, just make the Lowry to MIA S&T a three way deal.

For San Antonio, I’m not big on Lonnie Walker but I am on Devin Vassell. Keldon and Vassell, plus Murray and Aminu for salary matching and a couple of picks? Spurs could even lotto protect one of the picks as long as the other is a 2025 unprotected and that’s an easy yes.

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

[Rastas]

I don’t know that Toronto offers much more. Maybe a pick or something. I like FVV a lot tho.

I think a deal with SA could be had if you like the basic structure and a few picks. My guess is Morey asked for a lot more tho.

Trent would’ve been difficult to make work as he was a FA, therefore a S&T which hard caps you. But I feel like before the draft you could’ve got something done with Siakam and VanVleet. OG, VanVleet, and Dragic would’ve worked too, just make the Lowry to MIA S&T a three way deal.

For San Antonio, I’m not big on Lonnie Walker but I am on Devin Vassell. Keldon and Vassell, plus Murray and Aminu for salary matching and a couple of picks? Spurs could even lotto protect one of the picks as long as the other is a 2025 unprotected and that’s an easy yes.

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

Go easy on em, they obviously been drinking from the same watering hole as Morey.

[phillynative]

TJ Warren has to be the most overhyped player out there. He had an entire career of simply being TJ Warren, basically a Thad Young level player in Thad's prime. He went nuts for a bit in the Bubble and was hurt most of last year. Counting on getting Bubble TJ Warren or even 90% of that on any consistent basis going forward is minimal in its likelihood. Not a bad player, but definitely Bubble bias coloring perceptions of who that guy is and isn't.

He can get buckets from anywhere on the floor and knock down shots at a high percentage and the size to shoot over most defenders. It's not really a matter of overhyping him it's just something we haven't had in quite some time. 3 max player and not one of them have this trait.

Severe foot problems and is not healing on schedule post surgery. May be damaged goods.

Yep that's unfortunate

[the_process]

I don’t know that Toronto offers much more. Maybe a pick or something. I like FVV a lot tho.

I think a deal with SA could be had if you like the basic structure and a few picks. My guess is Morey asked for a lot more tho.

Trent would’ve been difficult to make work as he was a FA, therefore a S&T which hard caps you. But I feel like before the draft you could’ve got something done with Siakam and VanVleet. OG, VanVleet, and Dragic would’ve worked too, just make the Lowry to MIA S&T a three way deal.

For San Antonio, I’m not big on Lonnie Walker but I am on Devin Vassell. Keldon and Vassell, plus Murray and Aminu for salary matching and a couple of picks? Spurs could even lotto protect one of the picks as long as the other is a 2025 unprotected and that’s an easy yes.

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

LOL Pop wants to end his career with a lottery team, eh?

And Ben is so toxic the Sixers have been to 2nd round 3 of the past 4 years.

[HotelVitale]

Weird logic, but okay. FVV, is a better defende, so you could play him with Maxey, and he's a better 3 point shooter. He is also a better distributor than Sexton. Boucher, is a great stretch big who is awesome at blocking shots? Again, what's not to like?

You'd rather have ball hog sexton and Harrison Barnes who is etting up there?

Yes because of value based on utility.

Nothing wrong with FVV and Boucher, but a lot of what their values wont be utilized or can be replaced with the team.

I can find a cheap C like Drummond or draft one in Bassley or Paul Reed instead of Boucher. Boucher has some value if you are trading Embiid and you need a reliable stretch 5 to play with Ben.

FVV is a good player in sixers uniform but Sexton is the better player in a sixers uniform.

What you need is a scorer who can carry an offense when Embiid is not on the floor or is not playing and Sexton has shown that ability last season dropping like 40-50 pts is some games and his scoring numbers should back it up.

I see Sexton’s impact similar to Jimmy, Jj or Seth’s impact on this team where they’ll be more valuable on a sixers uniform than in a non-sixers uniform.

Yes, Sexton is a ballhog in the context of the Cavs team. Because who is he going to pass the ball to?

It’s like that Paul Pierce story when Doc Rivers and Ainge was telling him to stop being a ball hog and he replied.. “who should i pass the ball to? Jiri Fu*ckin Welsch?”

Look at the guards Morey is rumored to target. Beal, Lavine, Harden and Lillard. These guys can shoulder the perimeter scoring load. Sexton is more of that guy than FVV.

You want Kobe to play with Shaq. Not John Stockton.

Now, with all that said, i guess you also agree that we’re giving up a lot of value with FVV and Boucher. Thats why you are asking why i would do the deal.

..then this is where the “Cavs unprotected pick heist” comes into play. LOL

FVV had a 50 point game last year. Just because someone is a chucker doesn't make them better lol. You can score a bunch of empty points and still suck. FVV is also a champion.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Not going to wade deep into this but just had to point out how incredibly amazingly awful FVV was against us in the 2019 PO. He shot like 15% or something in that series and was basically unplayable as I remember it. I don’t want that to say everything but if you’re boosting him for being a champion seems like you have to look at what he did in that run to earn that bump.

[the_process]

21/22 Season Predictions
Option 1
Ben sits out - Morey fails to get a All Star - so no Trade.
Team will struggle to remain positive.
Joel misses more than his normal 25 to 30 games because he tries too hard without Ben and re injures his Meniscus or something else.
Positives are more playing time for almost everybody else.
Tobi gets featured more and becomes a very nice Trade asset this time next year.
76ers fail to make playoffs after failing in the Playin. 9th or 10th.
Ben stays at Home doing whatever - Who knows , maybe even spends the year learning to shoot righty.
No major Free Agents are looking into joining Philly.
Media is relentless over the standoff, Morey probably digs his heels in , but Harris and Ownership don't like the situation.
Fans continue to PitchFork.
If situation looks like repeating in 22/23 Joel and others ask out.
Option 2
Now if Ben gets traded for whatever package within the next couple of weeks.
Philly finish 4th to 7th (depends on trade package) - probably out in 1st rnd PO (Because of an injured Joel), best case is another 2nd rnd exit.
Philly should be in an ok position to trade for a All Star caliber Player.
Major Free Agents are ok to join Philly.
Fans continue to PitchFork ........ Just because it's the Philly thing to do.
Option 3
Ben traded at Deadline.
Possible to get a better player package if a team is desperate.
But no team that wants Ben and is doing bad at that stage is giving you their 22 pick.
22picks are only available from lottery teams now - not at the deadline or even early into the season.
Those bottom teams will only offer 23 and on Picks/Swaps , if Morey delays this.
Philly will finish somewhere between Options 1 and 2 placings.
More ra ra ra Pitchforks.

Good luck to all - even the loudest PitchForks - this offseason has been amazing honestly.

So your plan is to dump Ben to keep the teams rep in tact? Not a great plan.

[spikeslovechild]

Trent would’ve been difficult to make work as he was a FA, therefore a S&T which hard caps you. But I feel like before the draft you could’ve got something done with Siakam and VanVleet. OG, VanVleet, and Dragic would’ve worked too, just make the Lowry to MIA S&T a three way deal.

For San Antonio, I’m not big on Lonnie Walker but I am on Devin Vassell. Keldon and Vassell, plus Murray and Aminu for salary matching and a couple of picks? Spurs could even lotto protect one of the picks as long as the other is a 2025 unprotected and that’s an easy yes.

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

Go easy on em, they obviously been drinking from the same watering hole as Morey.

Yes Keldon and Vassell two untouchables. SMH

[the_process]

Yes because of value based on utility.

Nothing wrong with FVV and Boucher, but a lot of what their values wont be utilized or can be replaced with the team.

I can find a cheap C like Drummond or draft one in Bassley or Paul Reed instead of Boucher. Boucher has some value if you are trading Embiid and you need a reliable stretch 5 to play with Ben.

FVV is a good player in sixers uniform but Sexton is the better player in a sixers uniform.

What you need is a scorer who can carry an offense when Embiid is not on the floor or is not playing and Sexton has shown that ability last season dropping like 40-50 pts is some games and his scoring numbers should back it up.

I see Sexton’s impact similar to Jimmy, Jj or Seth’s impact on this team where they’ll be more valuable on a sixers uniform than in a non-sixers uniform.

Yes, Sexton is a ballhog in the context of the Cavs team. Because who is he going to pass the ball to?

It’s like that Paul Pierce story when Doc Rivers and Ainge was telling him to stop being a ball hog and he replied.. “who should i pass the ball to? Jiri Fu*ckin Welsch?”

Look at the guards Morey is rumored to target. Beal, Lavine, Harden and Lillard. These guys can shoulder the perimeter scoring load. Sexton is more of that guy than FVV.

You want Kobe to play with Shaq. Not John Stockton.

Now, with all that said, i guess you also agree that we’re giving up a lot of value with FVV and Boucher. Thats why you are asking why i would do the deal.

..then this is where the “Cavs unprotected pick heist” comes into play. LOL

FVV had a 50 point game last year. Just because someone is a chucker doesn't make them better lol. You can score a bunch of empty points and still suck. FVV is also a champion.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Not going to wade deep into this but just had to point out how incredibly amazingly awful FVV was against us in the 2019 PO. He shot like 15% or something in that series and was basically unplayable as I remember it. I don’t want that to say everything but if you’re boosting him for being a champion seems like you have to look at what he did in that run to earn that bump.

True, but FVV was very good in the ECF's vs MIL that year IIRC and was also solid against the Dubs in the Finals.

[Lovetron Joe]

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

Go easy on em, they obviously been drinking from the same watering hole as Morey.

Yes Keldon and Vassell two untouchables. SMH

There is not an All-Star or borderline All-Star on the Spurs roster.

[Rastas]

21/22 Season Predictions
Option 1
Ben sits out - Morey fails to get a All Star - so no Trade.
Team will struggle to remain positive.
Joel misses more than his normal 25 to 30 games because he tries too hard without Ben and re injures his Meniscus or something else.
Positives are more playing time for almost everybody else.
Tobi gets featured more and becomes a very nice Trade asset this time next year.
76ers fail to make playoffs after failing in the Playin. 9th or 10th.
Ben stays at Home doing whatever - Who knows , maybe even spends the year learning to shoot righty.
No major Free Agents are looking into joining Philly.
Media is relentless over the standoff, Morey probably digs his heels in , but Harris and Ownership don't like the situation.
Fans continue to PitchFork.
If situation looks like repeating in 22/23 Joel and others ask out.
Option 2
Now if Ben gets traded for whatever package within the next couple of weeks.
Philly finish 4th to 7th (depends on trade package) - probably out in 1st rnd PO (Because of an injured Joel), best case is another 2nd rnd exit.
Philly should be in an ok position to trade for a All Star caliber Player.
Major Free Agents are ok to join Philly.
Fans continue to PitchFork ........ Just because it's the Philly thing to do.
Option 3
Ben traded at Deadline.
Possible to get a better player package if a team is desperate.
But no team that wants Ben and is doing bad at that stage is giving you their 22 pick.
22picks are only available from lottery teams now - not at the deadline or even early into the season.
Those bottom teams will only offer 23 and on Picks/Swaps , if Morey delays this.
Philly will finish somewhere between Options 1 and 2 placings.
More ra ra ra Pitchforks.

Good luck to all - even the loudest PitchForks - this offseason has been amazing honestly.

So your plan is to dump Ben to keep the teams rep in tact? Not a great plan.

No Plan , just a vision of the near future.
Pick your Poison.

[mzfk69]

Trent would’ve been difficult to make work as he was a FA, therefore a S&T which hard caps you. But I feel like before the draft you could’ve got something done with Siakam and VanVleet. OG, VanVleet, and Dragic would’ve worked too, just make the Lowry to MIA S&T a three way deal.

For San Antonio, I’m not big on Lonnie Walker but I am on Devin Vassell. Keldon and Vassell, plus Murray and Aminu for salary matching and a couple of picks? Spurs could even lotto protect one of the picks as long as the other is a 2025 unprotected and that’s an easy yes.

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

LOL Pop wants to end his career with a lottery team, eh?

And Ben is so toxic the Sixers have been to 2nd round 3 of the past 4 years.

What does the 76ers' playoff success have to do with the potential deal and Ben's toxic character?
Embiid will also go to San Antonio with Ben?
If the Spurs give away the most talented players, will they cease to be a lottery team and Simmons will want to stay there for a long time?
Pop's inexorable desire to make the playoffs is just a common stereotype. In four settlement drafts, the Spurs chose raw players three times to develop them and put them in the future, not on momentary successes.
The next season will help determine who should be left in the team, and who should be said goodbye to and choose the right player in the draft, probably in the top 5.
And you propose to give up all this for the sake of a player who is not even the top 20.
Pop doesn't want to work with problem players.
Proof: https://youtu.be/XBZTPtENQCY?t=360 (6:00)

[76ciology]

FVV had a 50 point game last year. Just because someone is a chucker doesn't make them better lol. You can score a bunch of empty points and still suck. FVV is also a champion.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Not going to wade deep into this but just had to point out how incredibly amazingly awful FVV was against us in the 2019 PO. He shot like 15% or something in that series and was basically unplayable as I remember it. I don’t want that to say everything but if you’re boosting him for being a champion seems like you have to look at what he did in that run to earn that bump.

True, but FVV was very good in the ECF's vs MIL that year IIRC and was also solid against the Dubs in the Finals.

Yeah but his numbers is inflated as a scorer.

He averaged 17 attempts per game while shooting 39%.

The reason his assists numbers are high is because he is not a good scorer.

I guarantee you everyone will be looking to trade him if he plays for us.

[spikeslovechild]

“Spurs” will not give up such a package for a toxic player with highly severe flaws.
You can keep it for yourself.
Good luck.

LOL Pop wants to end his career with a lottery team, eh?

And Ben is so toxic the Sixers have been to 2nd round 3 of the past 4 years.

What does the 76ers' playoff success have to do with the potential deal and Ben's toxic character?
Embiid will also go to San Antonio with Ben?
If the Spurs give away the most talented players, will they cease to be a lottery team and Simmons will want to stay there for a long time?
Pop's inexorable desire to make the playoffs is just a common stereotype. In four settlement drafts, the Spurs chose raw players three times to develop them and put them in the future, not on momentary successes.
The next season will help determine who should be left in the team, and who should be said goodbye to and choose the right player in the draft, probably in the top 5.
And you propose to give up all this for the sake of a player who is not even the top 20.
Pop doesn't want to work with problem players.
Proof: https://youtu.be/XBZTPtENQCY?t=360 (6:00)

By the sounds of it you don't want to trade for Ben which is fine but the Sixers are not going to take trash because your roster is devoid of talent save for a couple of players.

And neither will any other team.

[spikeslovechild]

Not going to wade deep into this but just had to point out how incredibly amazingly awful FVV was against us in the 2019 PO. He shot like 15% or something in that series and was basically unplayable as I remember it. I don’t want that to say everything but if you’re boosting him for being a champion seems like you have to look at what he did in that run to earn that bump.

True, but FVV was very good in the ECF's vs MIL that year IIRC and was also solid against the Dubs in the Finals.

Yeah but his numbers is inflated as a scorer.

He averaged 17 attempts per game while shooting 39%.

The reason his assists numbers are high is because he is not a good scorer.

I guarantee you everyone will be looking to trade him if he plays for us.

He is also a legit small person

[HotelVitale]

FVV had a 50 point game last year. Just because someone is a chucker doesn't make them better lol. You can score a bunch of empty points and still suck. FVV is also a champion.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Not going to wade deep into this but just had to point out how incredibly amazingly awful FVV was against us in the 2019 PO. He shot like 15% or something in that series and was basically unplayable as I remember it. I don’t want that to say everything but if you’re boosting him for being a champion seems like you have to look at what he did in that run to earn that bump.

True, but FVV was very good in the ECF's vs MIL that year IIRC and was also solid against the Dubs in the Finals.

Can’t say I remember the series—think I was still mourning our loss and didn’t watch almost of it—but his numbers aren’t looking good. 9/1/3 despite playing pretty big minutes (27+). Percentages look good but it doesn’t seem like he can hang his hat as a tough PO guy on a series where his volume was in the basement.

[Sportfan73]

Not going to wade deep into this but just had to point out how incredibly amazingly awful FVV was against us in the 2019 PO. He shot like 15% or something in that series and was basically unplayable as I remember it. I don’t want that to say everything but if you’re boosting him for being a champion seems like you have to look at what he did in that run to earn that bump.

True, but FVV was very good in the ECF's vs MIL that year IIRC and was also solid against the Dubs in the Finals.

Yeah but his numbers is inflated as a scorer.

He averaged 17 attempts per game while shooting 39%.

The reason his assists numbers are high is because he is not a good scorer.

I guarantee you everyone will be looking to trade him if he plays for us.

He also turns 28 in February. So he’s 2 years younger than CJ and 1 year younger than Brogdon, who I think are both vastly superior players

[Sportfan73]

Like you guys are so down on Sexton and Fred shot 39 from the field and 36 from 3. Even last year 41 and 39. Neubeck in his article yesterday pointed out Sexton has shot over 40 percent on catch and shoot 3’s in every year of his career so far so his 48 from the field and 37.5 from 3 may have been a down year at 24ppg. How could you possibly want Fred over that

[76ciology]

Like you guys are so down on Sexton and Fred shot 39 from the field and 36 from 3. Even last year 41 and 39. Neubeck in his article yesterday pointed out Sexton has shot over 40 percent on catch and shoot 3’s in every year of his career so far so his 48 from the field and 37.5 from 3 may have been a down year at 24ppg. How could you possibly want Fred over that

Yup, Sexton has been underrated. I think i compared him and Fox’s scoring numbers like several weeks back.

And i think Sexton will not only be a much better player on our team but also a 20+ppg allstar on our team. I wouldnt be surprised if he continues his upward trajectory in his development when things fall into place for him (im a huge believer in this).

I also the collective group of scorers we’ll have without Embiid, with Sexton, Tobi and Maxey. And you still have Seth and Shake! Just constant dribble drive offense turning good shots into great shots (we showed some signs of this with our 2nd unit but George Hill just sucks).

And if offense stalls, dump the ball to Embiid if he’s playing.

And if Embiid is not playing, you can either dump the ball to either Sexton or Tobi. If there’s no mismatch, run a two man game and create mismatch.

Now you’re close to that Spurs blueprint.