Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

babyjax13 · Post #1841 » by **babyjax13** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:40 pm

eminence wrote:What's the price for a squad to just absorb Osman into space? Does that 1st proposed by Chuck get it done? I'd probably do it if I were a team like OKC (not sure how their cap is operating).

CLE Out: Rubio/Osman/Sexton/2 1sts
CLE In: Simmons

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Rubio/Sexton/1st

??? Out: n/a
??? In: Osman/1st

Maybe I'm overvaluing Osman, but I feel like cash + 2 2nds is good enough.

Post #1842 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:40 pm

I just don't see why Morey would bring in a low impact stats guy like Sexton. That is not his MO.

Unless Sextons terrible defense impact has been because of the terrible big man defense of the Cavs. Would have to bury more into that.

psman2 · Post #1843 » by **psman2** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:41 pm

eminence wrote:What's the price for a squad to just absorb Osman into space? Does that 1st proposed by Chuck get it done? I'd probably do it if I were a team like OKC (not sure how their cap is operating).

CLE Out: Rubio/Osman/Sexton/2 1sts
CLE In: Simmons

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Rubio/Sexton/1st

??? Out: n/a
??? In: Osman/1st

Chuck may hate Osman, but I think even he would use Dallas's TPE to get a future Cleveland 1st. OKC is the obvious target. I would try to get Memphis envolved too, we don't have a pure cap/TPE but have players that could be of interest.

Post #1844 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:43 pm

eminence wrote:In a PHI/CLE deal I think you should look for a 3rd team who can take some $ into space to try to get both PHI/CLE under the tax line.

I thought about just dumping Osman, but figured Philly would pay the tax to get a solid player back for a run. But fully concede your idea might well be better.

Post #1845 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:43 pm

psman2 wrote:
eminence wrote:What's the price for a squad to just absorb Osman into space? Does that 1st proposed by Chuck get it done? I'd probably do it if I were a team like OKC (not sure how their cap is operating).

CLE Out: Rubio/Osman/Sexton/2 1sts
CLE In: Simmons

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Rubio/Sexton/1st

??? Out: n/a
??? In: Osman/1st

Chuck may hate Osman, but I think even he would use Dallas's TPE to get a future Cleveland 1st. OKC is the obvious target. I would try to get Memphis evolved too, we don't have a pure cap/TPE but have players that could be of interest.

For OKC I’d do Osman, 2024 CLE 1st lotto/12/10/2nds for Kenrich

Post #1846 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:44 pm

psman2 wrote:Chuck may hate Osman, but I think even he would use Dallas's TPE to get a future Cleveland 1st.

Yes, yes I would.

eminence · Post #1847 » by **eminence** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:47 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
eminence wrote:What's the price for a squad to just absorb Osman into space? Does that 1st proposed by Chuck get it done? I'd probably do it if I were a team like OKC (not sure how their cap is operating).

CLE Out: Rubio/Osman/Sexton/2 1sts
CLE In: Simmons

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Rubio/Sexton/1st

??? Out: n/a
??? In: Osman/1st

Chuck may hate Osman, but I think even he would use Dallas's TPE to get a future Cleveland 1st. OKC is the obvious target. I would try to get Memphis evolved too, we don't have a pure cap/TPE but have players that could be of interest.

For OKC I’d do Osman, 2024 CLE 1st lotto/12/10/2nds for Kenrich

Oho, I hadn't even thought of actually sending Kenrich back to Philly, as I think they'd still be under the tax and he's playable at a position of need.

Post #1848 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:59 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
eminence wrote:What's the price for a squad to just absorb Osman into space? Does that 1st proposed by Chuck get it done? I'd probably do it if I were a team like OKC (not sure how their cap is operating).

CLE Out: Rubio/Osman/Sexton/2 1sts
CLE In: Simmons

PHI Out: Simmons
PHI In: Rubio/Sexton/1st

??? Out: n/a
??? In: Osman/1st

Chuck may hate Osman, but I think even he would use Dallas's TPE to get a future Cleveland 1st. OKC is the obvious target. I would try to get Memphis evolved too, we don't have a pure cap/TPE but have players that could be of interest.

For OKC I’d do Osman, 2024 CLE 1st lotto/12/10/2nds for Kenrich

Pleasantly surprised everyone didn't just kill my idea here.

Even more pleased at how you guys have worked to make the deal better. Love this. And Philly can choose to do Rubio/Dragic if they want or not. Sounds like maybe most think not.

Post #1849 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:11 pm

If Philly does take Sexton then I think the trade should be Sexton+Okoro+Love+2xFRP for Simmons+Curry+Milton.

Effectively love could play with Embiid and would match really well with Reed off the bench. He's also becoming an expiring next offseason and those picks plus Okoro could be an enticing package to a team looking to rebuild.

Sexton, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Okoro, Korkmaz, Reed, Love

Post #1850 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:11 pm

I just looked at Cedis deal again and I think the comp is too light with Kenrich in there too. Maybe loosen up the first and Philly sends OKC a 2nd.

Post #1851 » by **jbk1234** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:22 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I just looked at Cedis deal again and I think the comp is too light with Kenrich in there too. Maybe loosen up the first and Philly sends OKC a 2nd.

His last year isn't guaranteed. In any event, if one of the firsts is for dumping Cedi, the Cavs just keep him. He was awful last year, but the season before he shot .383 from 3 and was the only Cavs starter with positive defensive numbers. If the Cavs are trading for Simmons, then they really should be looking to move Okoro for more of a shooter anyway.

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Post #1852 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:25 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I just looked at Cedis deal again and I think the comp is too light with Kenrich in there too. Maybe loosen up the first and Philly sends OKC a 2nd.
His last year isn't guaranteed. In any event, if one of the firsts is for dumping Cedi, the Cavs just keep him. He was awful last year, but the season before he shot .383 from 3 and was the only Cavs starter with positive defensive numbers. If the Cavs are trading for Simmons, then they really should be looking to move Okoro for more of a shooter anyway.

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If you would rather use Okoro than Cedi/distant lotto first I think Cleveland is giving up additional value, but if you want to pay more I fail to see how that would be a problem. Philly could flip him for something else interesting easier than Cedi/first. Or just flip him for a similar 1st and pocket the money savings.

But obviously Cedi is being valued negatively in the deal and I assumed Cleveland would rather move negative salary and another protected pick over moving a prospect they seem to still believe in. If they are worried about roster balance sure seems like they could flip Okoro for a shooter on their own.

But Cleveland has to add salary beyond Rubio/Sexton and Osman feels like the logical choice even with his negative value.

Post #1853 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:31 pm

CLE out: Rubio, Sexton, Okoro
CLE in: Simmons

PHI out: Simmons, mins
PHI in: Rubio, Sexton, Dort, Kenrich

OKC out: Dort, Kenrich
OKC in: Okoro

eminence · Post #1854 » by **eminence** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:37 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I just looked at Cedis deal again and I think the comp is too light with Kenrich in there too. Maybe loosen up the first and Philly sends OKC a 2nd.
His last year isn't guaranteed. In any event, if one of the firsts is for dumping Cedi, the Cavs just keep him. He was awful last year, but the season before he shot .383 from 3 and was the only Cavs starter with positive defensive numbers. If the Cavs are trading for Simmons, then they really should be looking to move Okoro for more of a shooter anyway.

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It could be a couple min types and cash/2nd(s) out instead, though that wouldn't get CLE under the tax (does anybody have an up to date estimate on how much the taxpayers will be paying to the non-tax payers this season?).

Edit: Looked it up, and current taxpayers will pay in the range of $550M, and the sure thing tax payers (GS,BKN,Utah,LAL,LAC,MIL) are approx $520M of that (POR/BOS/TOR/PHI dodging the tax in my scenario, though honestly it's not easy for BOS at first glance or PHI unless Simmons is moved). POR should get under effortlessly, and TOR should just move Boucher for future picks.

Not sure what percent of that goes to the non tax payers.

toooskies · Post #1855 » by **toooskies** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:06 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:CLE out: Rubio, Sexton, Okoro
CLE in: Simmons

PHI out: Simmons, mins
PHI in: Rubio, Sexton, Dort, Kenrich

OKC out: Dort, Kenrich
OKC in: Okoro

If the Cavs trade for Simmons, it's to win now. In which case they need more of a plan at SG than Denzel Valentine and Dylan Windler.

shrink · Post #1856 » by **shrink** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:43 pm

kuclas wrote:Sixers and Morey will wait it out. We are simply in unchartered territory with a max contract player on a 4 year contract. Never in the history of the nba has a player with Simmons contract refused to report.

It’s one thing for Jimmy butler to blow up in practice but he was expiring contract so Minnesota had to do something.

Are you saying that if Butler (aka “General Soreness”) had been on a four year contract, MIN wouldn’t have had to do something?

Laimbeer · Post #1857 » by **Laimbeer** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:44 pm

Simmons for Paul, Bridges

Suns are basically a young team and get a unique young piece in Simmons

Sixers get their more reliable point and an upcoming wing in Bridges

Post #1858 » by **jbk1234** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:53 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:I just looked at Cedis deal again and I think the comp is too light with Kenrich in there too. Maybe loosen up the first and Philly sends OKC a 2nd.
His last year isn't guaranteed. In any event, if one of the firsts is for dumping Cedi, the Cavs just keep him. He was awful last year, but the season before he shot .383 from 3 and was the only Cavs starter with positive defensive numbers. If the Cavs are trading for Simmons, then they really should be looking to move Okoro for more of a shooter anyway.

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If you would rather use Okoro than Cedi/distant lotto first I think Cleveland is giving up additional value, but if you want to pay more I fail to see how that would be a problem. Philly could flip him for something else interesting easier than Cedi/first. Or just flip him for a similar 1st and pocket the money savings.

But obviously Cedi is being valued negatively in the deal and I assumed Cleveland would rather move negative salary and another protected pick over moving a prospect they seem to still believe in. If they are worried about roster balance sure seems like they could flip Okoro for a shooter on their own.

But Cleveland has to add salary beyond Rubio/Sexton and Osman feels like the logical choice even with his negative value.

I'd rather trade Okoro to a third team, with or without Cedi, and get a starting caliber shooter back. But no, I wouldn't add a first to dump a bench player making less than $10M per who has shown he's capable of playing up to that contract in the past. That's very poor asset management.

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realball · Post #1859 » by **realball** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:57 pm

I'm gonna post this again cause I didn't get any feedback:

Sixer out:
Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris

Sixers in:
Malcolm Brogdon, Buddy Hield, Malik Beasley, Kyle Anderson, Wolves protected 1st

Wolves out:
Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Jaden McDaniels, 2 protected 1sts

Wolves in:
Ben Simmons

Pacers out:
Malcolm Brogdon

Pacers in:
Dillon Brooks, Marvin Bagley

Kings out:
Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley

Kings in:
Tobias Harris

Grizzlies out:
Dillon Brooks, Kyle Anderson

Grizzlies in:
Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, Wolves protected 1st

psman2 · Post #1860 » by **psman2** » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:16 am

shrink wrote:
kuclas wrote:Sixers and Morey will wait it out. We are simply in unchartered territory with a max contract player on a 4 year contract. Never in the history of the nba has a player with Simmons contract refused to report.

It’s one thing for Jimmy butler to blow up in practice but he was expiring contract so Minnesota had to do something.

Are you saying that if Butler (aka “General Soreness”) had been on a four year contract, MIN wouldn’t have had to do something?

Butler is a big money/respect guy. I think if Minny had chosen to do the renegotiate and extend option then things might have turned out different for a few years keeping Butler happy.