Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[mademan]

Simmons/Rich Paul have made it very clear they dont want to be in Philly. All Simmons has to do is act like Harden did a year ago and Morey's hand will be forced.

Shaq and Chuck have pretty much made lunch meat of Rich Paul’s leaked declarations to the press. Not to say he can’t still sit out, but he ain’t acting from a position of strength. I think Philly will give Morey at least until the trade deadline if he wants it. By then, in the midst of competition and dysfunction, somewhere, there will be at least some chance of opportunity.

eh, we'll see. Philly is at the mercy of Ben's level of shamelessness. Harden forced the Rox hands last year with his comments and demeanour. If Ben acts the same way, there's not an executive in the league who would dig his heels in and keep him.

[jbk1234]

There isn't an issue in Philly. We all know what's going to happen. Either philly gets Dame or Philly gets Beal. There will be no inbetween. The dude has too many years on his contract, he has no choice but to come back. Philly is not going to trade him for anyone other than Dame or Beal. I'm sure this all ends up with him staying in Philly. He wont miss games for this season.

Hanging on to a guy who's unhappy being there, and who you want to move on from, for four years, unless one of two players is made available for trade, when there's a good possibility they won't ever be made available for that player, sounds like an awesome plan. Hard to see what could go wrong really.

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It does stand to reason, though, that Morey would strongly prefer a young flippable asset like Halliburton or Mobley over future picks and controversial starters like Hield or Sexton.

If the Sixers aren't interested in Sexton, then there's nothing to talk about. The Cavs can't trade for Simmons and retain Sexton financially (I'm also incredibly skeptical that Simmons and Sexton fit together in terms of spacing). For Simmons to work long-term for the Cavs, Mobley would eventually have to take Allen's place. Also, Mobley is a bench player for the Sixers and Embiid's time is now.

In terms of Haliburton, I agree that he makes a lot more sense for the Sixers, but the Kings have said neither he nor Fox available and the two sides haven't spoken since.

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[jbk1234]

Philly trades: Harris, Simmons
Philly receives: Rubio, Beal, Bertans

Cleveland trades: Love, Rubio, Mobley, Osman
Cleveland receives: Simmons, KP

Dallas trades: KP, Green
Dallas receives: Harris

Washington trades: Beal, Bertans
Washington receives: Osman, Love, Mobley, Green

Why for Philly: get Beal for Simmons in exchange for downgrading from Harris
Why for Cleveland: goes all-in to win now and form a frontcourt that fits well offensively with simmons, w/ allen as defensive anchor on bench
Why for Dallas: upgrade frontcourt
Why for washington: rebuild with a blue chipper in mobley

Embiid
Bertans
Green
Beal
Rubio

KP
Markkanen
Simmons
Sexton
Garland

Kleber
Harris
DFS
THJ
Doncic

Add picks as needed for teams (CLE protected 1st to washington?)

Cavs are out on this altogether. We're not taking back KP. It makes zero sense for us.

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[rzzzzz]

eh, we'll see. Philly is at the mercy of Ben's level of shamelessness. Harden forced the Rox hands last year with his comments and demeanour. If Ben acts the same way, there's not an executive in the league who would dig his heels in and keep him.

Yeah, the chances the Ben decided to own up to his shooting issue and head into to Philly’s camp looking to make it right with the team are not high. But the Rockets didn’t give Harden away. They looked for a package conducive to a teardown/rebuild. The Sixers will not give Ben away. They will continue to look for a trade conducive to building around Embiid towards contention.

[Texas Chuck]

]Cavs are out on this altogether. We're not taking back KP. It makes zero sense for us.

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I'm generally against KP to the Cavs too. But I I were willing to do Mobley/filler for Simmons then I probably would change my mind and do Love for KP because he and Simmons complement each other extremely well on both ends and it would be a win now move.

Now obviously at that point you have to find a taker for Allen or Markkanen by the off-season which is probably tough on those contracts. But Simmons/KP is a great duo and since you are getting to turn a guy you want to buy out into KP for just that extra year I'd definitely bite.

But honestly Washington would be thrilled to get KP instead of Love so if for whatever reason the Cavs passed on that upgrade the Wizards would be giddy to get a good player instead of a $60M doorstop.

[jbk1234]

]Cavs are out on this altogether. We're not taking back KP. It makes zero sense for us.

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I'm generally against KP to the Cavs too. But I I were willing to do Mobley/filler for Simmons then I probably would change my mind and do Love for KP because he and Simmons complement each other extremely well on both ends and it would be a win now move.

Now obviously at that point you have to find a taker for Allen or Markkanen by the off-season which is probably tough on those contracts. But Simmons/KP is a great duo and since you are getting to turn a guy you want to buy out into KP for just that extra year I'd definitely bite.

But honestly Washington would be thrilled to get KP instead of Love so if for whatever reason the Cavs passed on that upgrade the Wizards would be giddy to get a good player instead of a $60M doorstop.

Yeah, I wouldn't touch it. That's way too much money committed to KP and Simmons for way too long. You have to build out a competent roster afterwards and I'm not seeing it. That's before you get into KP's injury history and attitude, or Ben's for that matter. There could be a subsequent trade demand within months.

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[SNPA]

There isn't an issue in Philly. We all know what's going to happen. Either philly gets Dame or Philly gets Beal. There will be no inbetween. The dude has too many years on his contract, he has no choice but to come back. Philly is not going to trade him for anyone other than Dame or Beal. I'm sure this all ends up with him staying in Philly. He wont miss games for this season.

You know this isn’t true. And no matter how many times you say it doesn’t make it more true.

Morey has no leverage if Ben doesn’t show. It only gets worse for him, Ben’s value goes down more and the Sixers have no replacement talent on the court. Morey would be a fool to let it go that far.

What’s Ben got to lose besides game paychecks? Guess what, he’ll make a ton of money in his career anyways. Seems easily worth it, especially considering what Philly fans will do to him if he shows up.

[jayjaysee]

Something unrealistic since everything’s been done and I wanted to come up with one;

Cleveland - Love, Rubio, Okoro, Sexton, 2022 first and 2024 firsts
Cleveland - Simmons, Hield, Joe, Milton

Sac - Bagley, Mitchell
Sac - Wood, E. Gordon, DJ Augustin

Houston - Wood, E. Gordon, Augustin
Houston - Love, Mitchell, Reed, 2024 first

Philly - Simmons, Reed, Joe, Milton
Philly - Sexton, Rubio, Okoro, Bagley, 2022 first

Cleveland gets Simmons and puts a couple young-enough shooters in the rotation with Buddy/Shakes and should be able to avoid the tax until Garland gets paid..

Houston gets a couple quality assets for Wood by taking Love/EG+DJ

Sac gets Wood and keeps an overpaid third guard, but one with one fewer seasons for when Wood/Barnes need new contracts.

Philly gets Sexton, Okoro, and a first. Should be enough to get out of the tax. Meh though.

[SNPA]

Something unrealistic since everything’s been done and I wanted to come up with one;

Cleveland - Love, Rubio, Okoro, Sexton, 2022 first and 2024 firsts
Cleveland - Simmons, Hield, Joe, Milton

Sac - Bagley, Mitchell
Sac - Wood, E. Gordon, DJ Augustin

Houston - Wood, E. Gordon, Augustin
Houston - Love, Mitchell, Reed, 2024 first

Philly - Simmons, Reed, Joe, Milton
Philly - Sexton, Rubio, Okoro, Bagley, 2022 first

Cleveland gets Simmons and puts a couple young-enough shooters in the rotation with Buddy/Shakes and should be able to avoid the tax until Garland gets paid..

Houston gets a couple quality assets for Wood by taking Love/EG+DJ

Sac gets Wood and keeps an overpaid third guard, but one with one fewer seasons for when Wood/Barnes need new contracts.

Philly gets Sexton, Okoro, and a first. Should be enough to get out of the tax. Meh though.

Swap out Mitchell for Sac’s 21 first.

Also, I’d hate to see the Kings involved in a trade with Reed and not get him.

[toooskies]

Hanging on to a guy who's unhappy being there, and who you want to move on from, for four years, unless one of two players is made available for trade, when there's a good possibility they won't ever be made available for that player, sounds like an awesome plan. Hard to see what could go wrong really.

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It does stand to reason, though, that Morey would strongly prefer a young flippable asset like Halliburton or Mobley over future picks and controversial starters like Hield or Sexton.

If the Sixers aren't interested in Sexton, then there's nothing to talk about. The Cavs can't trade for Simmons and retain Sexton financially (I'm also incredibly skeptical that Simmons and Sexton fit together in terms of spacing). For Simmons to work long-term for the Cavs, Mobley would eventually have to take Allen's place. Also, Mobley is a bench player for the Sixers and Embiid's time is now.

In terms of Haliburton, I agree that he makes a lot more sense for the Sixers, but the Kings have said neither he nor Fox available and the two sides haven't spoken since.

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Philly wouldn't be getting Mobley to keep, he would be the main/only piece in a Lillard/Beal deal if those guys force their teams to rebuild. Cleveland trading Love + Mobley solves the salary issue. If Cleveland still isn't a good team, Sexton doesn't get paid by the Cavs.

[jbk1234]

It does stand to reason, though, that Morey would strongly prefer a young flippable asset like Halliburton or Mobley over future picks and controversial starters like Hield or Sexton.

If the Sixers aren't interested in Sexton, then there's nothing to talk about. The Cavs can't trade for Simmons and retain Sexton financially (I'm also incredibly skeptical that Simmons and Sexton fit together in terms of spacing). For Simmons to work long-term for the Cavs, Mobley would eventually have to take Allen's place. Also, Mobley is a bench player for the Sixers and Embiid's time is now.

In terms of Haliburton, I agree that he makes a lot more sense for the Sixers, but the Kings have said neither he nor Fox available and the two sides haven't spoken since.

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Philly wouldn't be getting Mobley to keep, he would be the main/only piece in a Lillard/Beal deal if those guys force their teams to rebuild. Cleveland trading Love + Mobley solves the salary issue. If Cleveland still isn't a good team, Sexton doesn't get paid by the Cavs.

With all due respect, I'm not seeing the *if* here. I don't have the spacing on an Allen, Lauri, Simmons, Sexton, and Garland team as salvageable unless Sexton fundamentally changes where on the court he takes a majority of his shots. Meanwhile, you've given away a player who in a couple of years can play farther away from the basket as a center and possibly make it work with Simmons.

Trading for Simmons at all is a high enough risk for the Cavs without trying to salvage the Sexton situation on top of it.

[kuclas]

If Toronto is sold on Simmons then What about something around...


TO TORONTO: Ben Simmons, Tyrese Haliburton and Seth Curry.

Haliburton-TrentJr-OG-Simmons-Birch
Flynn-Dragic-Barnes-Boucher-Precious



TO PHILLY: Fred VanVleet, Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley Jr

VanVleet-Hield-Harris-Bagley-Embiid
Maxey-Thybulle-Green-Korkmaz-Drummond



TO SACRAMENTO: Pascal Siakam, Freddie Gillespie and Philadelphia 1st round pick top 3 protected 2023.

Fox-Davis-Barnes-Siakam-Holmes
Mitchell-James-Harkless-Gillespie-Thompson

You got to be out of your mind

It’s a hang out the phone from Sixers immediately. They are not giving up Simmons plus cheap Curry for FVV , Hield and bagley.

1. Hield is not that much better than Curry but cost 2.5 more.
2. Bagley won’t crack the rotation
3. FVV could start. …maybe not sure before Maxey surplants him once he gets regular minutes

What how exactly does this make Sixers better

Cut out Sixers from the deal

And do the Haliburton/Bagley/Hield for Siakam/FVV. trade as main package Raps fans would probably say no to that deal as well well.

Well I have a few issues with your points.

Fred Vanvleet could start? You arent serious are you? Maxey looked good in summer league. But that's what it is. Summer league. VanVleet pretty much averaged 20/6/4 last year and is a NBA champ and still young at 27. Also had almost 2 steals a game and 37% from 3 which is Needed to space the floor with Joel. He will start lol.

The Hield point I kind of get because of the contract but he did almost average 17/5/4 with 39% from 3 last year in Sacramento and is also not old at 28. Curry was 13/3/2 still good numbers but not as all around as Buddy but the 8 million per year for Seth is nice.

Unless Tobias starts at PF which he might, but I always watched him as a SF for years, then Bagley starts for sure. Philly has no bigs that dont play center. Bagley has issues with Sacramento but who hasn't. Maybe he leaves and flourishes as a former 2nd overall pick only a couple of years ago. But remember, the dude did drop 14 and 7 last year on only 26 minutes. Who else is playing power forward on Philly ahead of Bagley? Scott and Niang? Maybe you are higher on them then I am. Bagley is also only 22 with tons of potential.

This trade helps Philadelphia balance their roster around Joel and also space the floor. VanVleet at 37%, Hield at 39% and even Bagley hit at 34% as a big as a 21 year old. This allows Joel to do his thing down low and kick it to good shooters. Also losing 27 points per game and adding 51 ppg will help scoring and options for the coach. This gives Philly a deep team that can doesn't have to let Joel do everything. VanVleet-Hield-Harris-Bagley-Embiid is so deep with spacing, especially if Bagley taps into potential it is crazy. Also everyone is still young enough to have a 5-7 year run with Embiid as the centerpiece.

Philly would be set with an MVP candidate and a super deep supporting cast. Vanvleet, Harris and Hield have been close to being all stars before. Imagine having that with an MVP candidate and a former 2nd overall pick with potential in your starting 5.

Let's also not forget that Simmons value has taken a hit.

Anyone on Sacramento has inflated stats. I wouldn’t trust any of them. They don’t play defense.

Let me ask you this. Just sent the Sacramento package to Toronto and leave Sixers out of it

How would raptors fan feel with hield Bagley Barnes as the core package?

[Norm2953]

You know this isn’t true. And no matter how many times you say it doesn’t make it more true.

Um, it's already been reported that Morey will not accept a trade proposal unless they get Dame. So I'm just repeating facts.

Something being reported does not make it fact. We are in 2021, that should be pretty common knowledge by now...

How amusing it would be if Dame gets dealt and its not to Philly.

[toooskies]

If the Sixers aren't interested in Sexton, then there's nothing to talk about. The Cavs can't trade for Simmons and retain Sexton financially (I'm also incredibly skeptical that Simmons and Sexton fit together in terms of spacing). For Simmons to work long-term for the Cavs, Mobley would eventually have to take Allen's place. Also, Mobley is a bench player for the Sixers and Embiid's time is now.

In terms of Haliburton, I agree that he makes a lot more sense for the Sixers, but the Kings have said neither he nor Fox available and the two sides haven't spoken since.

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Philly wouldn't be getting Mobley to keep, he would be the main/only piece in a Lillard/Beal deal if those guys force their teams to rebuild. Cleveland trading Love + Mobley solves the salary issue. If Cleveland still isn't a good team, Sexton doesn't get paid by the Cavs.

With all due respect, I'm not seeing the *if* here. I don't have the spacing on an Allen, Lauri, Simmons, Sexton, and Garland team as salvageable unless Sexton fundamentally changes where on the court he takes a majority of his shots. Meanwhile, you've given away a player who in a couple of years can play farther away from the basket as a center and possibly make it work with Simmons.

Trading for Simmons at all is a high enough risk for the Cavs without trying to salvage the Sexton situation on top of it.

4.4 attempts a game is well within the range of needing to be guarded at the three point line. And i'd definitely believe Sexton shooting two more 3s per game to be more likely than Mobley ever becoming a reasonable outside shooter.

[BoogieTime]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

[babyjax13]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

Honestly they should just fire Rivers and run it back if that is enough to salvage the situation, at least until the all-star break.

[the_process]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

Apologize for what? Being honest? All he said IDK if a Ben is a championship level PG. That’s hardly damning.

The fault is entirely Ben’s. He chose to not dunk a ball from 1 foot away. He is the one who gets rattled and rushes his FT’s. Sure, he can ask out all he wants, but he is in a position of weakness here. If anyone involved on Ben’s side was smart, he would’ve picked a team and Klutch would’ve gone to that team with promises of FA’s in the future if they made a deal for Ben now. That hasn’t happened, and now Ben is welcome to show up, sit out, or fake an injury all year. Who cares. The Sixers aren’t a championship team with or without him, and the only way they can get there is by getting a good return for him.

So we wait.

[jbk1234]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

The not so secret, secret here is that the Sixers want to go in another direction. I think they regret the situation having gotten to this point, and they certainly regret where his trade value is, but that's not the same as wanting him back.

Bringing him back in an attempt to run it back won't necessarily result in improving his trade value.

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[BoogieTime]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

Honestly they should just fire Rivers and run it back if that is enough to salvage the situation, at least until the all-star break.

They have some assistants more than capable of taking the reigns

Id move Rivers before getting a bad return for Simmons

[BoogieTime]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

Apologize for what? Being honest? All he said IDK if a Ben is a championship level PG. That’s hardly damning.

The fault is entirely Ben’s. He chose to not dunk a ball from 1 foot away. He is the one who gets rattled and rushes his FT’s. Sure, he can ask out all he wants, but he is in a position of weakness here. If anyone involved on Ben’s side was smart, he would’ve picked a team and Klutch would’ve gone to that team with promises of FA’s in the future if they made a deal for Ben now. That hasn’t happened, and now Ben is welcome to show up, sit out, or fake an injury all year. Who cares. The Sixers aren’t a championship team with or without him, and the only way they can get there is by getting a good return for him.

So we wait.

Yeah, you cant be honest like that. That fractures relationships

Just like Joerger cant be honest that the Kings should've taken Doncic over Bagley (which cost him his job)

Part of being a coach is having your players back.

Your players have to want to play for you, not dislike you