Masai Ujiri is Overrated

[Optms]

They move Lowry for Dragic who refuses to play for them. They then decide to not draft the BPA and elite prospect guard, Jalen Suggs. Who should have been the face of the PG spot moving foward. This team seems like it has no real direction given the past 2 years worth of transactions. Kawhi left, Marc, Ibaka, Powell, Lowry. Who is next? Siakam?

They have a good scouting team so I give them the benefit of the doubt for now but if Suggs goes on blow up in Orlando, and Barnes becomes just another role player or he busts, its going to haunt this team for years.

A lot of Raptor fans are going to come in and defend the hell out of him and I completely understand. I'm just stating that from the outside looking in, it doesn't look good. And on a side note - I like Barnes. I also like Kuminga, Sengun and Moody too. But not over Suggs. That selection shouldn't have been complicated to make.

[RiRuHoops]

who isn't though ?

[Domejandro]

Kyle Lowry was leaving Toronto anyways, this trade just helped him go to the team he wanted.

For the Draft pick, neither player has played yet. Assuming someone who is well accomplished is “overrated” because you disagree with a pick they made seems pretty reactionary.

[Reeko]

This discussion has been had ad nauseam on the Raptors board. The team is building from the ground up right now, with Pascal and Fred as the veteran leaders of the team. The player we got back for Lowry was Precious not Goran, as Goran really doesn't have future with the team.

There were many who were upset at passing on Suggs, but after seeing Scottie go to work in Summer League, there are very very few Raptors fans who are concerned about the pick. We've accepted it and moved on, most of us are all aboard the Scottie Barnes hype train. His upside is considerably higher than Suggs, I'm not saying he'll reach it or that he'll definitively be the better player, but his measurements, BBIQ, and passion for the game give him a nice floor regardless.

[Winsome Gerbil]

The fact that you would still try to say this after he stole Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk this offseason shows how little you know about the league!!!

[Anticon]

Funnily enough, this is now the first year where every single player was acquired by Ujiri. Lowry was brought in by Colangelo.

So should be a good test of your proposition. Personally I don't really care about the roster moves, I'll just him on wins. And we'll see how that all goes.

[NoBias]

Masai made the Raptors win a ring.

Who would’ve ever thought Toronto would have a championship?

Best GM in the NBA.

[VanWest82]

Masai did the Lowry trade for Precious not Dragic. Raps were too small after Gasol and Ibaka got old. They needed size which Scottie helps with as well. Suggs isnt some can't miss superstar or he would've been taken before 5th. It seems really premature to judge the results of this draft before anyone's even played a game in the NBA, and given what Raptors org has accomplished over the last eight years it's surely not reasonable to assume these latest moves won't work before seeing them in action.

[jlokine]

ok, say he is overrated... raptors should let him go and sign who exactly?

say what you want about suggs or barnes.. neither have played a lick of nba basketball. let's judge after 3 years, no? maybe they saw something in predraft workout that no one else knew.. maybe suggs told management that he didnt want to be in toronto. who knows.
you say if suggs blow it up in orlando and it'll haunt the raptors for years, what if barnes turn out to be better than suggs? are you going to eat crow for years? year after year, ppl make comments about lottery picks and who they like and whatnot.. only a handful sticks around long enough past their rookie contract. why people still make definitive comments about players before a game has been played really boggles my mind.

raptors was still a 50+ win team without kawhi in 2020.

they played 72 away games last yr. i think it's dumb to judge a team that was played with a disadvantage like no other team in the league.

personally, i think the current make up of the team is better than pistons, cavs, and magic.. which puts them in the same tier as charlotte, wizards, and pacers.

[Jabroni Lames]

Ah, yes. The first “exposed” or “overrated” thread of the season. Good luck with that.

[Statlanta]

If you told somebody you could get Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Serge Ibaka, Kawhi Leonard and Marc Gasol all on one team in 2014. They'd call you crazy.

Masai denied Steph, Giannis and KD for his own ring and greatness

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I love the takes from the fanbases that are furthest away, and thus watch the fewest games. Those are always the best.

[Danny1616]

Dragic instagram bio caption says he's a player for the Raptors. Why did you make up a lie that he doesn't want to play for the Raptors?

Masai has been an incredible GM. Here are some of his classic hits:

1) Traded Rudy Gay for Vasquez, Patterson, Hayes and Salmons.

2) Traded Vasquez for the draft rights to Norman Powell and a future protected first round pick. That first round pick turned into OG Anunoby (who was a steal at 20).

3) Traded Terrence Ross for Serge Ibaka.

4) Traded Derozan, Poeltl and a 1st for Kawhi and Green.

5) Traded JV, Wright and CJ Miles for Marc Gasol.

6) Drafted Siakam at 27 who was a steal.

7) Drafted Powell at 46 who was a steal.

8) Drafted OG at 20 who was a steal.

9) Signed Vanvleet who was undrafted.

10) Traded Bargnani for Novak, a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks.

Masai was able to build a perennial 50+ win team and at the same team find assets late in the draft to build a nice young core while being a contender.

Raptors record since Masai took over:

2013-2014 finished 48-34
2014-2015 finished 49-33
2015-2016 finished 56-26
2016-2017 finished 51-31
2017-2018 finished 59-23
2018-2019 finished 58-24
2019-2020 finished 53-19
2020-2021 finished 27-45

[Yuri Vaultin]

How long until the season starts? Sheesh, we're really scraping the bottom of the thread idea barrell here.

[jbk1234]

I think Precious is solid value in a Lowry S&T. I do wonder what offers the Raptors turned down at the deadline for Lowry, just like I wonder what offers the might have turned down before extending Siakam and FVV on their current deals, just like I wonder what offers might have been available for Suggs at No. 4.

There's a fine line between wanting to win every trade and backing yourself into a corner.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Got Nuffin]

Quite a lot of conjecture you have going on there.

- Many people were surprised at the Barnes pick, but the more you analyse his game the more you realise what we have here. An athletic, mobile big with guard-like handles and passing ability. If Masai believes his shot will improve, then why not give him the benefit of the doubt? He's already a monster defensively. It's not like Suggs' is a perfect prospect either, with his t-rex arms and poor ball handling for a player at his position. Either player could end up a role player or a star. Barnes has the higher upside and Suggs is the safer pick. Of course Masai is going to swing for the fences, that's unapologetically who he is.

- Most of us had no idea who Precious Achiuwa was before the trade, but a short summer league later, he looks like a very versatile big who produced offensively in SL but has a reputation for defensive skill. Seems like a Raptor player all the way, and a nice compensation for trading Lowry who was on his way out and is turning 36 or sth.

- When did Dragic refuse to play for Toronto? He is playing. Not that it even matters, he was a salary throw-in to make the trade work, nothing more. Toronto don't necessarily want him to play - give Barnes and Flynn the reps at pg imo, but if Masai can get some value for him at the deadline even better.

Masai's work is definitely not finished. Toronto need a true shot creator in the worst way and won't be truly competitive again until they find one, but 2 years after a championship it's pretty harsh to call him overrated when the rebuild is only just getting started - we still have young veterans FVV and Siakam as valuable assets for trade, and there is already a lot of promising youth on the roster.

[gbball]

They move Lowry for Dragic who refuses to play for them. They then decide to not draft the BPA and elite prospect guard, Jalen Suggs. Who should have been the face of the PG spot moving foward. This team seems like it has no real direction given the past 2 years worth of transactions. Kawhi left, Marc, Ibaka, Powell, Lowry. Who is next? Siakam?

They have a good scouting team so I give them the benefit of the doubt for now but if Suggs goes on blow up in Orlando, and Barnes becomes just another role player or he busts, its going to haunt this team for years.

A lot of Raptor fans are going to come in and defend the hell out of him and I completely understand. I'm just stating that from the outside looking in, it doesn't look good. And on a side note - I like Barnes. I also like Kuminga, Sengun and Moody too. But not over Suggs. That selection shouldn't have been complicated to make.

I'll bite.

The Raptors have a clear vision. We're zigging when other teams are zagging. Whether it works or not is yet to be seen. But they're banking on defense making them competitive. Even when they won the chip, it was with elite defense. We're assembling a team that rivals that one on the defensive end.

we have 2-3 elite 3pt shot blockers in Siakam, Boucher, and OG...now you add Precious and Barnes to the mix and we have a team with almost no exploitable weakness on that side of the ball outside of possibly guys like Embiid and Jokic. But we have length, mobility and switchability up and down our lineup. We are loaded with versatile 2-way players.

Lowry, Gasol, and Ibaka are great players, but all well past their primes. Lowry wasn't nearly as good last year...Gasol is done and out of the league. Ibaka is starting to break down. All players that it was wise to move on from IMO. I think we timed it well.

Fred is ready to be the leader of the team and Flynn looks like he's got a lot of potential.

Our main question is on the offensive end. I'm not sure where our points will come from, but Scottie is a great playmaker at his position and we have a few very good 3pt shooters in Fred, Trent, OG, and possibly Flynn.

Over the last 3 years, we went from winning the championship with an old veteran team to almost making the ECF to going younger and moving on from players that aren't part of our future in Gasol and Ibaka to keeping Lowry for one more year to mentor our young guard in Malachi Flynn for a full season, then stealth tanking and getting the 4th pick in a deep draft where we got arguably the most unique prospect in the entire draft in Scottie Barnes. His game isn't aesthetically pleasing, but the impact he has and the intangibles he brings are unquantifiable.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=HoopDiamonds

I expect Suggs to be a good player, but I'd be very surprised if Barnes doesn't turn out great too. In some ways, I see them as very similar prospects - both with great intangibles with Suggs being slightly more skilled offensively, but with Barnes having the edge in physical tools and on defense. But both are team-first players who will do whatever it takes to win. And both have a lot of upside still. But with Raptors being about size, defense and versatility. Scottie makes the most sense for what we're doing.

I'm excited about our team, we have elite defensive potential, offensive upside. We're a lot younger, we've got all our picks and we have very tradeable assets if we do want to make a move at some point. Which team wouldn't want any of Fred, OG, Siakam, or Boucher if the Raptors wanted to deal them at their current contract?

[CIN-C-STAR]

Should have moved Lowry at the trade deadline last season and he would have gotten a lot more for him.
Holding onto him when you are going into tank mode anyway never made sense to me. I think he let his pride get in the way of a better deal.
That said, he's still a good GM, though I agree he's probably overrated given the saint-like reverence many fans seem to have for him.

[BigGargamel]

Since this board is full of Real GM's, who exactly could the Raptors have gotten better than Precious if they traded Lowry at the deadline?

[LAL1947]

Masai is often held up as the "best GM in the league". From this perspective, I think he is over-rated. Is he a very good GM? Yes. Should the Raptors look to change GMs? Absolutely not. Is he really the best GM in the league though? No.

1). Masai's story is great and he has accomplished great things with his career from humble beginnings. However, he has been GM for quite awhile now, so I think there needs to be some separation of the appreciation given for his journey, i.e., where he started from and where has reached... with focus being given only to what he does/achieves as GM.

2). Way too much love being shown for Toronto winning in 2019-20. There was so much good fortune involved:

- Kawhi forcing his way out of the Spurs and a Pop team, something that has not happened before.
- Pop being a grumpy, ole sourpuss and sending Kawhi (and Danny Green) to Toronto instead of taking a better deal for the Spurs. If he'd accepted the Lakers offer, he could have had Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, Hart + picks... instead of DeRozan and 1 Top-20 protected pick. This trade fell into Toronto's laps by the kind of luck needed to win the real lottery.
- Then in the playoffs: Kawhi's lucky winner against the 76ers. Having KD and Klay BOTH go down. I watched all those matches as a neutral, but slightly favoring Toronto since I like Kawhi and wasn't keen on GSW super-team winning a 3-peat. Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

None of these sub-points in #2 involve "best in the league" GM'ing. The Toronto team as Masai had built them, i.e., with DeRozan instead of Kawhi, weren't winning diddly squat that year. If even one of these sub-points happens differently, they do not win a ring. I'm not trying to rile Raptors fans by saying that, just sharing my honest opinion.

3). Masai being the most successful black GM also has some part to play in the over-rating. Marc Eversley appears to be doing good things at the Bulls since 2020. I'm not sure what Elton Brand is doing in Philadelphia but Simmons wants out after he hired Doc Rivers. Anyway, their GM counterparts in New York, New Orleans, Phoenix and San Antonio have been bombing over the past years. So Masai gets held up high.

New York: People really need to ask themselves if it's fair to blame James Dolan instead Steve Mills.
- Steve Mills: GM of the Knicks from 2013 to 2017. Fans/media prefer blaming Dolan for the Knicks failings.
- Scot Perry: Hired by Mills in 2017 to replace himself as GM, while Mills became president of the Knicks. Fired in 2020.

New Orleans:
- Dell Demps: GM of the Pels from 2010 to 2019. AD ended up forcing his way out. Now an assistant coach at the Jazz.
- Trajan Langdon: Replaced Demps. Pels have wasted some of the assets got from trading AD. Zion reportedly wants out.

Phoenix: James Jones
GM of the Suns since 2017. Passed on drafting Luka for Deandre Ayton. Fans/media prefer blaming Sarver for the Suns failings. It needed CP3 joining to rescue them. He's made some good moves lately though, like signing Monty Williams and some of the other trades made to help build/keep the Suns as contenders.

San Antonio: Brian Wright
GM of the Spurs since 2019. There is now a thread asking if Pop is being "exposed" at the Spurs post-Duncan... which is ridiculous considering everything Pop has done for that franchise for 20+ years. Question the GM and FO for the results instead.