Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

Skates · Post #1301 » by **Skates** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:27 am

We are at 365 pages of Simmons trade posts and still haven't accomplished anything. Hmm, maybe we are doing something wrong?

Haliburton is my number one target, plus whatever matching trash salary we get with him.

But I am not hating Colin Sexton because at this point Simmons is damaged value and might outplay current expectations and Sexton is in the same boat. I don't love his size, but we have seen a lot of guards accused of the empty numbers tag until they get on a winning team and their game expands, they aren't the sole target of other teams' defense and Sexton will come with a package. If we can get Sexton, Okoro and Rubio and two unprotected or minimally protected first rounders I don't think it is a terrible haul. Or replace Okoro with Osman and add another FRP. Or replace Okoro with Mobley (admittedly very unlikely) and move him to another team for a shooting wing with size. Leaves you with a lot of tradeable contracts, picks and a guy in Sexton who might well outplay his currently perceived value as a Sixer. As for sexton wanting a max deal, we are talking restricted FA for a guy coming off his rookie deal, not a ten year guy looking for the designated player super max.

I reallly don't want a CJ McCollum deal.

SixthStreet · Post #1302 » by **SixthStreet** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:01 am

The best option is to drag it out into the season. Teams like the Kings who in the offseason think everything is roses with their roster will be hit with a heavy dose of reality once the losses start piling up and then all the sudden they come around and see that Simmons for all his flaws is a better floor raiser than Fox is.

A Simmons/Fox centered deal is a win-win for both teams. They just think Morey's leverage is in the toilet so they are posturing that they are only open to scraps at this point in exchange.

For those of you with eyes for Lillard, same thing applies there.

I've thought for a long time that we are going to end up with Fox because that deal makes too much sense for both teams. Haven't changed my opinion in the last month and still see that as the eventual outcome.

eyeatoma · Post #1303 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:51 am

SixthStreet wrote:The best option is to drag it out into the season. Teams like the Kings who in the offseason think everything is roses with their roster will be hit with a heavy dose of reality once the losses start piling up and then all the sudden they come around and see that Simmons for all his flaws is a better floor raiser than Fox is.

A Simmons/Fox centered deal is a win-win for both teams. They just think Morey's leverage is in the toilet so they are posturing that they are only open to scraps at this point in exchange.

For those of you with eyes for Lillard, same thing applies there.

I've thought for a long time that we are going to end up with Fox because that deal makes too much sense for both teams. Haven't changed my opinion in the last month and still see that as the eventual outcome.

I could live with this.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

the_process · Post #1304 » by **the_process** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:58 am

Skates wrote:We are at 365 pages of Simmons trade posts and still haven't accomplished anything. Hmm, maybe we are doing something wrong?

Haliburton is my number one target, plus whatever matching trash salary we get with him.

But I am not hating Colin Sexton because at this point Simmons is damaged value and might outplay current expectations and Sexton is in the same boat. I don't love his size, but we have seen a lot of guards accused of the empty numbers tag until they get on a winning team and their game expands, they aren't the sole target of other teams' defense and Sexton will come with a package. If we can get Sexton, Okoro and Rubio and two unprotected or minimally protected first rounders I don't think it is a terrible haul. Or replace Okoro with Osman and add another FRP. Or replace Okoro with Mobley (admittedly very unlikely) and move him to another team for a shooting wing with size. Leaves you with a lot of tradeable contracts, picks and a guy in Sexton who might well outplay his currently perceived value as a Sixer. As for sexton wanting a max deal, we are talking restricted FA for a guy coming off his rookie deal, not a ten year guy looking for the designated player super max.

I reallly don't want a CJ McCollum deal.

I agree with you on Haliburton yes and McCollum no. But Sexton is also a no to me unless he is coming with Mobley. Otherwise I insist on Garland.

Sportfan73 · Post #1305 » by **Sportfan73** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:05 am

eyeatoma wrote:
SixthStreet wrote:The best option is to drag it out into the season. Teams like the Kings who in the offseason think everything is roses with their roster will be hit with a heavy dose of reality once the losses start piling up and then all the sudden they come around and see that Simmons for all his flaws is a better floor raiser than Fox is.

A Simmons/Fox centered deal is a win-win for both teams. They just think Morey's leverage is in the toilet so they are posturing that they are only open to scraps at this point in exchange.

For those of you with eyes for Lillard, same thing applies there.

I've thought for a long time that we are going to end up with Fox because that deal makes too much sense for both teams. Haven't changed my opinion in the last month and still see that as the eventual outcome.
I could live with this.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

I’m starting to think Lavine signing with Klutch is actually a REALLY good thing. Windhorst reiterated multiple times on the liberty ballers podcast that the Maxey stuff didn’t come from Rich Paul and he had zero issue with Philly. Lavine is expiring so it makes the deal a lot more fair even with Ben’s value dropping

Mik317 · Post #1306 » by **Mik317** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:13 am

Murray is MCW who actually plays defense.

The theoretical upside is that the Spurs have pretty much alwayus has other options so perhaps there is some scoring upside still to be unlocked...because at Washington Murray was a jack.\

But any Spurs package, Murray wouldn't be the prize anyway...Vassell and/or their picks platter is the real star of any Spurs package.

Murray simply replaces aspects of Ben's role on the team except he wouldn't be standing in the dunkers spot all day.

There are worst fates than that IMO.

Not sexy or high upsidey but we aint getting that at the moment.

ecuhus1981 · Post #1307 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:14 am

Hey guys, I have another trade proposal to share, let me know your thoughts:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/FqWYB7degvWZ1Z/cle-lac-phi-option-2

CLE trades Love/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for Simmons/Kennard
The Cavaliers push all-in for a young, exciting core.
Garland, Okoro, Simmons, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Kennard, Windler, Osman, Mobley

LAC trades Morris/Kennard for Love/Curry
The Clippers move off of long-term salary (anticipating Terence's extension), while bringing in savvy vets.
Jackson, Mann, George, Batum, Zubac
Bledsoe, Curry, Winslow, Love, Ibaka

PHI trades Simmons/Curry for Morris/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st
The Sixers shed $19mil on their current cap number and add future 1sts that could facilitate a subsequent superstar trade.
Sexton, Green, Morris, Harris, Embiid
Milton, Korkmaz, Thybulle, Niang, Reed

76ciology · Post #1308 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 am

Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:There are only two ways to win with Embiid.
- Batman and Robin. Get him a top tier star
- Surround him with collective scorers. Spurs model.

And either way, the last thing you need is the most important position in offense being played by a guy who is a below average scorer and shooter.

Can’t win with Embiid

Doesn’t mean that you keep Ben

Joel is a Robin in today’s nba

All are true

I think you can.

Im not saying in terms of “1% is a chance” but im saying you have a good chance relative to the chance among contenders.

You just need more luck. And you just keep upgrading the collective scorers you surround him with every time you fall short.

You look at the top guards that plays with the top bigs, like Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray. At some point they were just as good as guys like Maxey or Sexton. I do think these type of guys are abundant that you dont need a miracle to get them.

No disrespect to Middleton and Jrue. But those two guys arent also top tier talent in the league that played with Giannis.

76ciology · Post #1309 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:42 am

Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:We didnt try to get out of the Ben Simmons experiment to get back into a worse Ben Simmons experiment hahaha

I get what you're saying, but I think there's still added value in the dribble penetrating aspects that real Gs provide, even if they can't shoot.

Think back to the Boston series when Brett Brown benched Simmons for McConnell. McConnell was a defensive G that couldn't shoot either, but Brett knew T.J. provided the dribble penetration that Ben couldn't provide.

Murray is very quick and shifty and is assisted on only 29.8% of his halfcourt buckets for his career. There are things he can do in the halfcourt that Ben can't. I do agree that his lack of shooting makes him a mediocre piece, though. Which is why I'd hope we'd get Derrick White included in that deal. He can compound our Shake Milton dynamic.

What do you think of Joshua Primo?

I made an earlier post in this thread about this. His numbers didnt stand out for me so i didnt gave attention at him. I think you mentioned him in the draft thread. He has good height to wingspan ration and good foundations to be a good guard in the league? He looks like a younger or poor man’s version of SGA to me (except the college numbers).

Regarding penetrating guards yes, they have value. But I probably want more than just TJ and Dejounte. Like I think there will be some match-ups where its effective and some match ups where it will be ineffective whereas if you can get someone who has better scoring talent and can shoot, you’ll be effective almost always. It’s a matter of success rate for me.

For instance, if you play against the Raps where they have multiple lengthy and athletic guys, I think guys like TJ or Dejounte would be neutralized. Where a lengthy guy can sag off him and deny penetration. While a guy who can shoot could atleast pull his defender off the paint and makes it easier to dribble drive or be threat of attacking closeouts.

76ciology · Post #1310 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:46 am

I wouldnt trade Ben for those two.

But I’d rather have Immanuel Quickley or Jordan Clarkson over Dejounte Murray.

76ciology · Post #1311 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:48 am

Two guys that Spurs should look at. Trey Burke and MCW. I think Spurs can build back their career.

syntax · Post #1312 » by **syntax** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:51 am

76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:There are only two ways to win with Embiid.
- Batman and Robin. Get him a top tier star
- Surround him with collective scorers. Spurs model.

And either way, the last thing you need is the most important position in offense being played by a guy who is a below average scorer and shooter.

Can’t win with Embiid

Doesn’t mean that you keep Ben

Joel is a Robin in today’s nba

All are true

I think you can.

Im not saying in terms of “1% is a chance” but im saying you have a good chance relative to the chance among contenders.

You just need more luck. And you just keep upgrading the collective scorers you surround him with every time you fall short.

You look at the top guards that plays with the top bigs, like Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray. At some point they were just as good as guys like Maxey or Sexton. I do think these type of guys are abundant that you dont need a miracle to get them.

No disrespect to Middleton and Jrue. But those two guys arent also top tier talent in the league that played with Giannis.

Jrue in the playoffs... his defense was a major factor. Not sure if you watched the games.

Donovan and Jamal's defense is a major factor in their teams losing.

Clarkson instead of Dejounte lol. Clarkson did nothing better with tha Jazz than he did with the Lakers except play more minutes and take more shore. Look where that got the Jazz.

sixers4real · Post #1313 » by **sixers4real** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:38 am

I hope Morey hates the idea of trading Ben for Murray+++.

I want one of Fox/Halliburton/Lillard/Beal/Ingram/picks+swaps for Simmons. Otherwise just keep him, sit him, whatever. But just no to a bad trade.

downtownpie · Post #1314 » by **downtownpie** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:12 am

76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:There are only two ways to win with Embiid.
- Batman and Robin. Get him a top tier star
- Surround him with collective scorers. Spurs model.

And either way, the last thing you need is the most important position in offense being played by a guy who is a below average scorer and shooter.

Can’t win with Embiid

Doesn’t mean that you keep Ben

Joel is a Robin in today’s nba

All are true

I think you can.

Im not saying in terms of “1% is a chance” but im saying you have a good chance relative to the chance among contenders.

You just need more luck. And you just keep upgrading the collective scorers you surround him with every time you fall short.

You look at the top guards that plays with the top bigs, like Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray. At some point they were just as good as guys like Maxey or Sexton. I do think these type of guys are abundant that you dont need a miracle to get them.

No disrespect to Middleton and Jrue. But those two guys arent also top tier talent in the league that played with Giannis.

So you think Maxey is as good as a rookie Donovan Mitchell?

76ciology · Post #1315 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:36 am

syntax wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
Can’t win with Embiid

Doesn’t mean that you keep Ben

Joel is a Robin in today’s nba

All are true

I think you can.

Im not saying in terms of “1% is a chance” but im saying you have a good chance relative to the chance among contenders.

You just need more luck. And you just keep upgrading the collective scorers you surround him with every time you fall short.

You look at the top guards that plays with the top bigs, like Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray. At some point they were just as good as guys like Maxey or Sexton. I do think these type of guys are abundant that you dont need a miracle to get them.

No disrespect to Middleton and Jrue. But those two guys arent also top tier talent in the league that played with Giannis.

Jrue in the playoffs... his defense was a major factor. Not sure if you watched the games.

Donovan and Jamal's defense is a major factor in their teams losing.

Clarkson instead of Dejounte lol. Clarkson did nothing better with tha Jazz than he did with the Lakers except play more minutes and take more shore. Look where that got the Jazz.

Point differential does not discriminate whether you get it from offense or defense.

But because of how the rules is implemented nowadays, it’s easier to get point differential from offense than on defense.

You will be surprised that the most credible advanced stats out there favors jordan clarkson over dejounte murray

76ciology · Post #1316 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:41 am

downtownpie wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
Can’t win with Embiid

Doesn’t mean that you keep Ben

Joel is a Robin in today’s nba

All are true

I think you can.

Im not saying in terms of “1% is a chance” but im saying you have a good chance relative to the chance among contenders.

You just need more luck. And you just keep upgrading the collective scorers you surround him with every time you fall short.

You look at the top guards that plays with the top bigs, like Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray. At some point they were just as good as guys like Maxey or Sexton. I do think these type of guys are abundant that you dont need a miracle to get them.

No disrespect to Middleton and Jrue. But those two guys arent also top tier talent in the league that played with Giannis.

So you think Maxey is as good as a rookie Donovan Mitchell?

We’ll know next season.

At age 20, Maxey was a promising roomie averaging almost 19pts per 36 and played a big role for a playoff team while Mitchell was still in college.

Im just saying that Maxey to be as good as Mitchell or Muray is not out of the question.

The comparison is different say comparing Maxey to Harden, Steph or other top tier talents

Tomjas · Post #1317 » by **Tomjas** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:22 pm

76ciology wrote:
syntax wrote:
76ciology wrote:
I think you can.

Im not saying in terms of “1% is a chance” but im saying you have a good chance relative to the chance among contenders.

You just need more luck. And you just keep upgrading the collective scorers you surround him with every time you fall short.

You look at the top guards that plays with the top bigs, like Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray. At some point they were just as good as guys like Maxey or Sexton. I do think these type of guys are abundant that you dont need a miracle to get them.

No disrespect to Middleton and Jrue. But those two guys arent also top tier talent in the league that played with Giannis.

Jrue in the playoffs... his defense was a major factor. Not sure if you watched the games.

Donovan and Jamal's defense is a major factor in their teams losing.

Clarkson instead of Dejounte lol. Clarkson did nothing better with tha Jazz than he did with the Lakers except play more minutes and take more shore. Look where that got the Jazz.

Point differential does not discriminate whether you get it from offense or defense.

But because of how the rules is implemented nowadays, it’s easier to get point differential from offense than on defense.

You will be surprised that the most credible advanced stats out there favors jordan clarkson over dejounte murray

Jazz were also #1 seed and got dumped out of playoffs because their perimeter defence sucked

Negrodamus · Post #1318 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:37 pm

So, to be clear, we're definitely going into next season with Ben. The Sixers have no compelling reason to trade him other than Embiid's timeline.

mzfk69 · Post #1319 » by **mzfk69** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:06 pm

What do you think about trading Simmons for Jamal Murray?
“Nuggets” probably do not need a third volume scorer next to Porter and Jokic, and they just need a strong defender.
“Philadelphia” in this case will receive a star player.

76ciology · Post #1320 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:35 pm

mzfk69 wrote:What do you think about trading Simmons for Jamal Murray?
“Nuggets” probably do not need a third volume scorer next to Porter and Jokic, and they just need a strong defender.
“Philadelphia” in this case will receive a star player.

I dont like it. But since i think you are a nice guy, i’ll do it.