Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[EvanZ]

The basics are not good. If the Pacers are trading for Simmons, then they need to retain Turner because the added value comes from Simmons being able to play in more space. Sabonis needs to be the player going out here, and then you can start tinkering around the edges.

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I think Sabonis works with Simmons about as well as he'd work with Draymond. Could probably make the argument that GS should do that deal for Sabonis.

The Warriors don't need to be in the trade at all. The Hornets and Raptors could really use Sabonis as well.

Sure but who are they giving up?


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[hoosierdaddy34]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

[cucad8]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

I think he also said it was a mystery team, or a team not yet mentioned. So we'd have to remove Cavs, Spurs, Pacers, Sacramento from that list?

[oaktownwarriors87]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Jazz.

They have an undersized shooting guard (DM) and a bunch of un-athletic wings. Simmons would give them their PG and the size/defense/athleticism they need on the perimeter/wing.

He also dropped 42/12/9 on the Jazz in Utah last season. I'm sure they were impressed.

[Godaddycurse]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Jazz.

They have an undersized shooting guard (DM) and a bunch of un-athletic wings. Simmons would give them their PG and the size/defense/athleticism they need on the perimeter/wing.

He also dropped 42/12/9 on the Jazz in Utah last season. I'm sure they were impressed.

They have barely any tradable picks and conley cant be traded until mid season. Clarkson/Bogey/Ingles/O'Neale wont get you Simmons

[oaktownwarriors87]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Jazz.

They have an undersized shooting guard (DM) and a bunch of un-athletic wings. Simmons would give them their PG and the size/defense/athleticism they need on the perimeter/wing.

He also dropped 42/12/9 on the Jazz in Utah last season. I'm sure they were impressed.

They have barely any tradable picks and conley cant be traded until mid season. Clarkson/Bogey/Ingles/O'Neale wont get you Simmons

Yeah, I don't know what Simmons trade value is. I can't imagine too many teams willing to give up a star for him. A truck load of high quality role players and some crappy draft picks might be the best they can do.

Not saying you're wrong, I just have no idea what is value actually is.

According to Hollingers highly flawed trade machine it's a wash

[eminence]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Jazz.

They have an undersized shooting guard (DM) and a bunch of un-athletic wings. Simmons would give them their PG and the size/defense/athleticism they need on the perimeter/wing.

He also dropped 42/12/9 on the Jazz in Utah last season. I'm sure they were impressed.

They have barely any tradable picks and conley cant be traded until mid season. Clarkson/Bogey/Ingles/O'Neale wont get you Simmons

Yeah, I like the idea of Simmons in Utah, but it's tough to make work without Conley, though I thought he became available a bit sooner than that (I want to say early November).

[zimpy27]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

I think he also said it was a mystery team, or a team not yet mentioned. So we'd have to remove Cavs, Spurs, Pacers, Sacramento from that list?

My guess is Memphis. They are in an unusual spot where they need to accrue one more good young talented piece but are doing too well to get draft picks.

I could see them going for Simmons to consolidate their assets, even just to hold him and trade him later for a better fit.

They have interesting pieces with quality impact stats that Morey would be interested in.

Anderson and Melton both add defense, playmaking and shooting efficiency. Brooks adds defense and iso offense. Clarke adds quality minutes.

They got picks too.

[jbk1234]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

I think he also said it was a mystery team, or a team not yet mentioned. So we'd have to remove Cavs, Spurs, Pacers, Sacramento from that list?

Maybe the Pelicans.

[Bowdystuda]

You got to be out of your mind

It’s a hang out the phone from Sixers immediately. They are not giving up Simmons plus cheap Curry for FVV , Hield and bagley.

1. Hield is not that much better than Curry but cost 2.5 more.
2. Bagley won’t crack the rotation
3. FVV could start. …maybe not sure before Maxey surplants him once he gets regular minutes

What how exactly does this make Sixers better

Cut out Sixers from the deal

And do the Haliburton/Bagley/Hield for Siakam/FVV. trade as main package Raps fans would probably say no to that deal as well well.

Well I have a few issues with your points.

Fred Vanvleet could start? You arent serious are you? Maxey looked good in summer league. But that's what it is. Summer league. VanVleet pretty much averaged 20/6/4 last year and is a NBA champ and still young at 27. Also had almost 2 steals a game and 37% from 3 which is Needed to space the floor with Joel. He will start lol.

The Hield point I kind of get because of the contract but he did almost average 17/5/4 with 39% from 3 last year in Sacramento and is also not old at 28. Curry was 13/3/2 still good numbers but not as all around as Buddy but the 8 million per year for Seth is nice.

Unless Tobias starts at PF which he might, but I always watched him as a SF for years, then Bagley starts for sure. Philly has no bigs that dont play center. Bagley has issues with Sacramento but who hasn't. Maybe he leaves and flourishes as a former 2nd overall pick only a couple of years ago. But remember, the dude did drop 14 and 7 last year on only 26 minutes. Who else is playing power forward on Philly ahead of Bagley? Scott and Niang? Maybe you are higher on them then I am. Bagley is also only 22 with tons of potential.

This trade helps Philadelphia balance their roster around Joel and also space the floor. VanVleet at 37%, Hield at 39% and even Bagley hit at 34% as a big as a 21 year old. This allows Joel to do his thing down low and kick it to good shooters. Also losing 27 points per game and adding 51 ppg will help scoring and options for the coach. This gives Philly a deep team that can doesn't have to let Joel do everything. VanVleet-Hield-Harris-Bagley-Embiid is so deep with spacing, especially if Bagley taps into potential it is crazy. Also everyone is still young enough to have a 5-7 year run with Embiid as the centerpiece.

Philly would be set with an MVP candidate and a super deep supporting cast. Vanvleet, Harris and Hield have been close to being all stars before. Imagine having that with an MVP candidate and a former 2nd overall pick with potential in your starting 5.

Let's also not forget that Simmons value has taken a hit.

Anyone on Sacramento has inflated stats. I wouldn’t trust any of them. They don’t play defense.

Let me ask you this. Just sent the Sacramento package to Toronto and leave Sixers out of it

How would raptors fan feel with hield Bagley Barnes as the core package?

Well that would be crazy. Raptors are not contending now. Why would we want Barnes whose contract is horrible and plays the same position as OG, Hield whose age doesn't fit at 28, And Bagley who would be behind Scottie Barnes. All that for an All nba 2nd team in Siakam and a guy who averages 20/6/4 in Vanvleet and Gillispie? That makes no sense for the Raptors. The only reason the Raps are trading Siakam and VanVleet would be to get younger to build around the core of OG, Barnes, TrentJr, Flynn, Boucher, Banton etc.

That's the difference. Philly is contending now and for as long as Embiid is on the team.

They need guys in their prime now. Van vleet and Hield are that.

They need shooters. Vanvleet and Hield are that.

They need a point guard in the deal. Vanvleet is that and has also logged almost 50 playoff games and is a NBA champ and is clutch.

They need guys who can get their own shot. Vanvleet and Hield can do that.

They need guys who can score and get the double teams off of Joel. Vanvleet and Hield will do that.


I get if you dont like Bagley, but he does hold value as a recent 2nd overall pick who put up 14 and 7 last year. If you dont like him, flip him. You can get another good asset more suited for you if you dont think he fits. But Vanvleet and Hield suit what Philly needs now and Ben Simmons value is dropping by the second.

[psman2]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Memphis comes in with this.

Mem In: Simmons
Mem Out: Adams, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd

Tor In: Adams, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd
Tor Out: Dragic

Toronto gets a center and some smaller assets for a player that doesn't want to be there.

Philly In: Dragic, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st
Philly Out: Simmons

Philly now has a big expiring in Dragic they can keep or shop with the picks. Brooks and Clarke upgrade their rotation while they look for the next trade.

Philly waits for the Beal situation to get worse and offers Dragic/Curry and like 4 1sts for Beal. I honestly don't think any team is beating that deal at the deadline.

[Texas Chuck]

Memphis is interesting in that Simmons is the fully realized version of Winslow who they paid a pretty big opportunity cost for. If they still think that sort of player fits their young core, they definitely have the assets to make it happen as long as they launder them a bit to get Philly the right mix of win now pieces/future value.

[jbk1234]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Memphis comes in with this.

Mem In: Simmons
Mem Out: Adams, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd

Tor In: Adams, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd
Tor Out: Dragic

Toronto gets a center and some smaller assets for a player that doesn't want to be there.

Philly In: Dragic, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st
Philly Out: Simmons

Philly now has a big expiring in Dragic they can keep or shop with the picks. Brooks and Clarke upgrade their rotation while they look for the next trade.

Philly waits for the Beal situation to get worse and offers Dragic/Curry and like 4 1sts for Beal. I honestly don't think any team is beating that deal at the deadline.

At the deadline? I'll be surprised if either Simmons or Dragic are on their current rosters at the deadline. Also, what records do the Grizzlies and Jazz have at the deadline, because those firsts could look pretty meh by then. The Sixers already have Harris at PF so Clarke seems like he'd hold minimal value to them. Maybe Dragic has a bounce back season and is still with the Raptors, but he was pretty bad last year. I don't see the Sixers interested in him as a major piece. They're too far over the cap to realize the benefit of his expiring deal.

[zimpy27]

Melton+Anderson+Brooks+Culver+FRP for Simmons+Curry+Milton

Maxey, Brooks, Anderson, Harris, Embiid
Melton, Thybulle, Green, Niang, Drummond
Springer, Joe, Culver, Korkmaz, Reed

Ja, Curry, Simmons, JJJ, Tillman
Jones, Bane, Williams, Clarke, Adams
Milton, Merrill, Konchar, Juancho, Santi

Philly get out of the tax with this move and add quality depth.
Adams+Milton could be moved to Raptors for Dragic to give Memphis a better fit.

[psman2]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

Memphis comes in with this.

Mem In: Simmons
Mem Out: Adams, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd

Tor In: Adams, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd
Tor Out: Dragic

Toronto gets a center and some smaller assets for a player that doesn't want to be there.

Philly In: Dragic, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st
Philly Out: Simmons

Philly now has a big expiring in Dragic they can keep or shop with the picks. Brooks and Clarke upgrade their rotation while they look for the next trade.

Philly waits for the Beal situation to get worse and offers Dragic/Curry and like 4 1sts for Beal. I honestly don't think any team is beating that deal at the deadline.

At the deadline? I'll be surprised if either Simmons or Dragic are on their current rosters at the deadline. Also, what records do the Grizzlies and Jazz have at the deadline, because those firsts could look pretty meh by then. The Sixers already have Harris at PF so Clarke seems like he'd hold minimal value to them. Maybe Dragic has a bounce back season and is still with the Raptors, but he was pretty bad last year. I don't see the Sixers interested in him as a major piece. They're too far over the cap to realize the benefit of his expiring deal.

Clarke can be swapped out for the LAL 1st if he is not of use for Philly. However I would have him getting 25 minutes as the 3/4/5 backup in Philly.

Dragic makes more sense than Adams for both contract and position for Philly. I am saying Philly makes this trade now and still puts a winning team on the floor and can shop Dragic+ for a more longer term piece into the deadline. Of course most of those picks are not going to be premium pick (maybe the GS 2024 could) but who is offering premium picks for Simmons or Beal? I have both of those players if traded for pick packages being more quantity over quality.

[jbk1234]

Memphis comes in with this.

Mem In: Simmons
Mem Out: Adams, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd

Tor In: Adams, 2024 Tor 2nd, 2023 Mem 2nd
Tor Out: Dragic

Toronto gets a center and some smaller assets for a player that doesn't want to be there.

Philly In: Dragic, Brooks, Clarke, 2022 Mem UP, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GS 1st
Philly Out: Simmons

Philly now has a big expiring in Dragic they can keep or shop with the picks. Brooks and Clarke upgrade their rotation while they look for the next trade.

Philly waits for the Beal situation to get worse and offers Dragic/Curry and like 4 1sts for Beal. I honestly don't think any team is beating that deal at the deadline.

At the deadline? I'll be surprised if either Simmons or Dragic are on their current rosters at the deadline. Also, what records do the Grizzlies and Jazz have at the deadline, because those firsts could look pretty meh by then. The Sixers already have Harris at PF so Clarke seems like he'd hold minimal value to them. Maybe Dragic has a bounce back season and is still with the Raptors, but he was pretty bad last year. I don't see the Sixers interested in him as a major piece. They're too far over the cap to realize the benefit of his expiring deal.

Clarke can be swapped out for the LAL 1st if he is not of use for Philly. However I would have him getting 25 minutes as the 3/4/5 backup in Philly.

Dragic makes more sense than Adams for both contract and position for Philly. I am saying Philly makes this trade and still puts a winning team on the floor and can shop Dragic+ for a more longer term piece into the deadline. Of course most of those picks are not going to be premium pick (maybe the GS 2024 could) but who is offering premium picks for Simmons or Beal? I have both of those players if traded for pick packages being more quantity over quality.

Well Adams and Dragic are in the trade because you want them in the trade. It doesn't follow that Philly or a third team want Adams or Dragic in the trade.

[BullyKing]

Melton+Anderson+Brooks+Culver+FRP for Simmons+Curry+Milton

Maxey, Brooks, Anderson, Harris, Embiid
Melton, Thybulle, Green, Niang, Drummond
Springer, Joe, Culver, Korkmaz, Reed

Ja, Curry, Simmons, JJJ, Tillman
Jones, Bane, Williams, Clarke, Adams
Milton, Merrill, Konchar, Juancho, Santi

Philly get out of the tax with this move and add quality depth.
Adams+Milton could be moved to Raptors for Dragic to give Memphis a better fit.

How does this add depth? They are trading three rotation players for three rotation players. Like if you're going to keep proposing these trades where Simmons gets sent off for a pile of mediocre rotation players in the name of depth, you need to stop including just as many rotation players back.

[psman2]

At the deadline? I'll be surprised if either Simmons or Dragic are on their current rosters at the deadline. Also, what records do the Grizzlies and Jazz have at the deadline, because those firsts could look pretty meh by then. The Sixers already have Harris at PF so Clarke seems like he'd hold minimal value to them. Maybe Dragic has a bounce back season and is still with the Raptors, but he was pretty bad last year. I don't see the Sixers interested in him as a major piece. They're too far over the cap to realize the benefit of his expiring deal.

Clarke can be swapped out for the LAL 1st if he is not of use for Philly. However I would have him getting 25 minutes as the 3/4/5 backup in Philly.

Dragic makes more sense than Adams for both contract and position for Philly. I am saying Philly makes this trade and still puts a winning team on the floor and can shop Dragic+ for a more longer term piece into the deadline. Of course most of those picks are not going to be premium pick (maybe the GS 2024 could) but who is offering premium picks for Simmons or Beal? I have both of those players if traded for pick packages being more quantity over quality.

Well Adams and Dragic are in the trade because you want them in the trade. It doesn't follow that Philly or a third team want Adams or Dragic in the trade.

Well from Memphis POV I cannot see Adams and Simmons ever playing together. So for Memphis to really be involved in a Simmons trade Adams needs to go out. So with Adams going out where is the team that would value him the most and provide something a little more useful to Philly? Dragic is easier to trade and more playable than Adams for Philly.

So they are in the trade because they make logical sense in constructing the trade, that doesn't mean Philly takes the trade.

[zimpy27]

Melton+Anderson+Brooks+Culver+FRP for Simmons+Curry+Milton

Maxey, Brooks, Anderson, Harris, Embiid
Melton, Thybulle, Green, Niang, Drummond
Springer, Joe, Culver, Korkmaz, Reed

Ja, Curry, Simmons, JJJ, Tillman
Jones, Bane, Williams, Clarke, Adams
Milton, Merrill, Konchar, Juancho, Santi

Philly get out of the tax with this move and add quality depth.
Adams+Milton could be moved to Raptors for Dragic to give Memphis a better fit.

How does this add depth? They are trading three rotation players for three rotation players. Like if you're going to keep proposing these trades where Simmons gets sent off for a pile of mediocre rotation players in the name of depth, you need to stop including just as many rotation players back.

Quality depth.

Melton, Anderson and Brooks are all better than Curry and Milton. If Philly kept Curry+Milton then they wouldn't be starters or bench. Curry is a great shooter and would be in the rotation still, Milton would not.

[BullyKing]

Melton+Anderson+Brooks+Culver+FRP for Simmons+Curry+Milton

Maxey, Brooks, Anderson, Harris, Embiid
Melton, Thybulle, Green, Niang, Drummond
Springer, Joe, Culver, Korkmaz, Reed

Ja, Curry, Simmons, JJJ, Tillman
Jones, Bane, Williams, Clarke, Adams
Milton, Merrill, Konchar, Juancho, Santi

Philly get out of the tax with this move and add quality depth.
Adams+Milton could be moved to Raptors for Dragic to give Memphis a better fit.

How does this add depth? They are trading three rotation players for three rotation players. Like if you're going to keep proposing these trades where Simmons gets sent off for a pile of mediocre rotation players in the name of depth, you need to stop including just as many rotation players back.

Quality depth

So Curry is not quality depth? Milton who scored 13 a game last year on the minimum is not quality? Ok.