Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[zimpy27]

How does this add depth? They are trading three rotation players for three rotation players. Like if you're going to keep proposing these trades where Simmons gets sent off for a pile of mediocre rotation players in the name of depth, you need to stop including just as many rotation players back.

Quality depth

So Curry is not quality depth? Milton who scored 13 a game last year on the minimum is not quality? Ok.

Milton no, Curry would be in the rotation. In this trade he'd be replaced by Melton. If you prefer Curry over Melton, then Melton can be left out. I just much prefer Melton for playmaking/defense on this Philly team and feel a lot of Curry's +/- numbers came with needing to start to counteract Simmons. WIth Simmons gone I don't see Curry being as useful.

[BullyKing]

Quality depth

So Curry is not quality depth? Milton who scored 13 a game last year on the minimum is not quality? Ok.

Milton no, Curry would be in the rotation. In this trade he'd be replaced by Melton. If you prefer Curry then Melton can be left out.

So then the Sixers are downgrading from Simmons to Kyle Anderson all so they can upgrade Milton to Dillion Brooks. I mean does that really seem like anything they should be interested in to you?

[Texas Chuck]

Man the Seth Curry slander on the board today is something. You would think 4 of the past 5 seasons shooting 45% from 3 with his "down" year being 43% would be valuable. Especially since in the playoffs he upped that to 48 and 51% on volume. No idea a guy dropping 19 pgg on 73% TS in the playoffs is a marginal rotation player.

This is a shooting league. This is literally the most active accurate shooter in the league. He makes no money. He has started on good teams and performed at a high level in the playoffs.

But one team doesn't want him cuz Simons and now Melton is an upgrade? What is even happening here?

I don't see Philly adding him to a Simmons trade at all, but if they do and other teams value him at zero, Dallas will gladly step in and take back back for the 3rd time and we will contribute real value despite already having a bunch of good 3-pt shooters on the roster. Elite shooters are always welcome here.

[zimpy27]

So Curry is not quality depth? Milton who scored 13 a game last year on the minimum is not quality? Ok.

Milton no, Curry would be in the rotation. In this trade he'd be replaced by Melton. If you prefer Curry then Melton can be left out.

So then the Sixers are downgrading from Simmons to Kyle Anderson all so they can upgrade Milton to Dillion Brooks. I mean does that really seem like anything they should be interested in to you?

Yeah I really like that. The goal is to provide win now pieces and picks. I wasn't specific on the FRPs but that would be the negotiation point. Both Anderson and Brooks can score from the perimeter.

[BullyKing]

Milton no, Curry would be in the rotation. In this trade he'd be replaced by Melton. If you prefer Curry then Melton can be left out.

So then the Sixers are downgrading from Simmons to Kyle Anderson all so they can upgrade Milton to Dillion Brooks. I mean does that really seem like anything they should be interested in to you?

Yeah I really like that. The goal is to provide win now pieces and picks. I wasn't specific on the FRPs but that would be the negotiation point. Both Anderson and Brooks can score from the perimeter.

They are not win now pieces because they won't help you win anything. There is no upside to a team with Tobias Harris and Kyle Anderson as their 2nd and 3rd best players.

[BullyKing]

Man the Seth Curry slander on the board today is something. You would think 4 of the past 5 seasons shooting 45% from 3 with his "down" year being 43% would be valuable. Especially since in the playoffs he upped that to 48 and 51% on volume. No idea a guy dropping 19 pgg on 73% TS in the playoffs is a marginal rotation player.

This is a shooting league. This is literally the most active accurate shooter in the league. He makes no money. He has started on good teams and performed at a high level in the playoffs.

But one team doesn't want him cuz Simons and now Melton is an upgrade? What is even happening here?

I don't see Philly adding him to a Simmons trade at all, but if they do and other teams value him at zero, Dallas will gladly step in and take back back for the 3rd time and we will contribute real value despite already having a bunch of good 3-pt shooters on the roster. Elite shooters are always welcome here.

But you see the Sixers need to just bite the bullet and trade Simmons for a bunch of mediocre role players. But to make the salary and roster spots work, Sixers need to send back likely even more valuable role players. Gosh, why is Morey being so difficult?????

[OGSactownballer]

Memphis does not make sense to me with the proposals here simply because it’s obvious that Morey wants picks in the deal that have value and the GSW/UTH firsts are all but guaranteed to be very late first round and not competitive with the other teams in the discussion.

Even adding Ben to most of those teams they are still only playoff level (later middle first round) at best and have a decent chance of being late lotto if that team has a down/injury year.

[zimpy27]

So then the Sixers are downgrading from Simmons to Kyle Anderson all so they can upgrade Milton to Dillion Brooks. I mean does that really seem like anything they should be interested in to you?

Yeah I really like that. The goal is to provide win now pieces and picks. I wasn't specific on the FRPs but that would be the negotiation point. Both Anderson and Brooks can score from the perimeter.

They are not win now pieces because they won't help you win anything. There is no upside to a team with Tobias Harris and Kyle Anderson as their 2nd and 3rd best players.

Truthfully I don't see Embiid working well in a traditional 1st option, 2nd option, 3rd option layout.

I see Philly's best path forward to surround Embiid with guys who have good bbiq and are all around bball players that can not be picked on. To do that, you can't expect them all be all star-tier players. There is little weakness in the lineup with these 8 players: Maxey, Brooks, Anderson, Harris, Embiid, Melton, Thybulle, Green. That lack of weakness would be Philly's strength in playoffs.

Spoiler:

I'd hope that Reed can step up to by the 9th guy and backup big

I do think Simmons and Curry have weaknesses that can be exploited in the playoffs.

[psman2]

Memphis does not make sense to me with the proposals here simply because it’s obvious that Morey wants picks in the deal that have value and the GSW/UTH firsts are all but guaranteed to be very late first round and not competitive with the other teams in the discussion.

Even adding Ben to most of those teams they are still only playoff level (later middle first round) at best and have a decent chance of being late lotto if that team has a down/injury year.

What other teams in the discussion are offering premium picks? I have not followed this thread that closely.

That GS pick in 2024 with low protections has some value, I would not declare that pick to be guaranteed to be very late. Memphis's own pick even with Simmons is likely still 12-17. The LAL and Utah are very likely 20+.

[Village Idiot]

Man the Seth Curry slander on the board today is something. You would think 4 of the past 5 seasons shooting 45% from 3 with his "down" year being 43% would be valuable. Especially since in the playoffs he upped that to 48 and 51% on volume. No idea a guy dropping 19 pgg on 73% TS in the playoffs is a marginal rotation player.

This is a shooting league. This is literally the most active accurate shooter in the league. He makes no money. He has started on good teams and performed at a high level in the playoffs.

But one team doesn't want him cuz Simons and now Melton is an upgrade? What is even happening here?

I don't see Philly adding him to a Simmons trade at all, but if they do and other teams value him at zero, Dallas will gladly step in and take back back for the 3rd time and we will contribute real value despite already having a bunch of good 3-pt shooters on the roster. Elite shooters are always welcome here.

Talk about avoiding context. The deal was basically trading Robert Covington for Seth Curry. Portland was the 29th worst defensive team in the NBA last season and trading a defensive stud for a spot-up shooter doesn't make any sense whatsoever for the Trailblazers. Simons is 21 years old and has plenty of upside left. Curry is 31 and on the downside of his career. If we look at the NBA's best catch and shoot 3 point shooters last seasonyou'll see:

#1. Tony Snell Atlanta but now Portland - 59.2%
#3. Anfernee Simons - 51.4%
#7. Seth Curry - 48.6%
#9. CJ McCollum - 47.6%
a bit further down we have
Damian Lillard - 45.4%
Norm Powell and Tobias Harris - 43.2%

Add to that the fact that Neil Olshey declined to bring Curry back to Portland and trying to act like Roco for Curry is some great deal for Portland is inexplicable.

[Texas Chuck]

Add to that the fact that Neil Olshey declined to bring Curry back to Portland and trying to act like Roco for Curry is some great deal for Portland is inexplicable.

Funny that you mention context when I was clear I wasn't saying Portland should swap RoCo for Curry, but multiple posters including you specifically mentioned Simons as the reason why they didn't want Curry.

We don't need Seth because we have Simons was repeated multiple times.....Including apparently here. And the fact that you are sticking by the Curry who left Portland and are completely ignoring the 2 seasons he had since...doesn't sound like someone interested in context to me.

[kuclas]

Well I have a few issues with your points.

Fred Vanvleet could start? You arent serious are you? Maxey looked good in summer league. But that's what it is. Summer league. VanVleet pretty much averaged 20/6/4 last year and is a NBA champ and still young at 27. Also had almost 2 steals a game and 37% from 3 which is Needed to space the floor with Joel. He will start lol.

The Hield point I kind of get because of the contract but he did almost average 17/5/4 with 39% from 3 last year in Sacramento and is also not old at 28. Curry was 13/3/2 still good numbers but not as all around as Buddy but the 8 million per year for Seth is nice.

Unless Tobias starts at PF which he might, but I always watched him as a SF for years, then Bagley starts for sure. Philly has no bigs that dont play center. Bagley has issues with Sacramento but who hasn't. Maybe he leaves and flourishes as a former 2nd overall pick only a couple of years ago. But remember, the dude did drop 14 and 7 last year on only 26 minutes. Who else is playing power forward on Philly ahead of Bagley? Scott and Niang? Maybe you are higher on them then I am. Bagley is also only 22 with tons of potential.

This trade helps Philadelphia balance their roster around Joel and also space the floor. VanVleet at 37%, Hield at 39% and even Bagley hit at 34% as a big as a 21 year old. This allows Joel to do his thing down low and kick it to good shooters. Also losing 27 points per game and adding 51 ppg will help scoring and options for the coach. This gives Philly a deep team that can doesn't have to let Joel do everything. VanVleet-Hield-Harris-Bagley-Embiid is so deep with spacing, especially if Bagley taps into potential it is crazy. Also everyone is still young enough to have a 5-7 year run with Embiid as the centerpiece.

Philly would be set with an MVP candidate and a super deep supporting cast. Vanvleet, Harris and Hield have been close to being all stars before. Imagine having that with an MVP candidate and a former 2nd overall pick with potential in your starting 5.

Let's also not forget that Simmons value has taken a hit.

Anyone on Sacramento has inflated stats. I wouldn’t trust any of them. They don’t play defense.

Let me ask you this. Just sent the Sacramento package to Toronto and leave Sixers out of it

How would raptors fan feel with hield Bagley Barnes as the core package?

Well that would be crazy. Raptors are not contending now. Why would we want Barnes whose contract is horrible and plays the same position as OG, Hield whose age doesn't fit at 28, And Bagley who would be behind Scottie Barnes. All that for an All nba 2nd team in Siakam and a guy who averages 20/6/4 in Vanvleet and Gillispie? That makes no sense for the Raptors. The only reason the Raps are trading Siakam and VanVleet would be to get younger to build around the core of OG, Barnes, TrentJr, Flynn, Boucher, Banton etc.

That's the difference. Philly is contending now and for as long as Embiid is on the team.

They need guys in their prime now. Van vleet and Hield are that.

They need shooters. Vanvleet and Hield are that.

They need a point guard in the deal. Vanvleet is that and has also logged almost 50 playoff games and is a NBA champ and is clutch.

They need guys who can get their own shot. Vanvleet and Hield can do that.

They need guys who can score and get the double teams off of Joel. Vanvleet and Hield will do that.


I get if you dont like Bagley, but he does hold value as a recent 2nd overall pick who put up 14 and 7 last year. If you dont like him, flip him. You can get another good asset more suited for you if you dont think he fits. But Vanvleet and Hield suit what Philly needs now and Ben Simmons value is dropping by the second.

Sixers have no need for Bagley. He with new on the bench before Drummond and probably Paul reed
They have no need for hield with Seth Curry.
No need for Barnes. Danny green us resigned.

FVV is ok. But giving up Simmons for FVV is not gonna to work.

That’s my point. The trade does not make Sixers any much better.

Hield cannot get his own shot off.
FVV can but he’s short and streaky. Might as well take a chance on Maxey who’s cheaper and more explosive than FVV. Maxey has proven he can take any defender off the dribble. He’s wild. Shot is iffy. But kid can break down a defense in half court.

[zimpy27]

Man the Seth Curry slander on the board today is something. You would think 4 of the past 5 seasons shooting 45% from 3 with his "down" year being 43% would be valuable. Especially since in the playoffs he upped that to 48 and 51% on volume. No idea a guy dropping 19 pgg on 73% TS in the playoffs is a marginal rotation player.

This is a shooting league. This is literally the most active accurate shooter in the league. He makes no money. He has started on good teams and performed at a high level in the playoffs.

But one team doesn't want him cuz Simons and now Melton is an upgrade? What is even happening here?

I don't see Philly adding him to a Simmons trade at all, but if they do and other teams value him at zero, Dallas will gladly step in and take back back for the 3rd time and we will contribute real value despite already having a bunch of good 3-pt shooters on the roster. Elite shooters are always welcome here.

Yeah, he's an elite shooter but he's also a target on defense and needs a playmaking wing to be played at PG where he still hurts you but not as much. Melton would be a better fit for this Philly team without Simmons.

Curry is a definite upgrade over Simons but Melton is better than both and I think the difference here is that you aren't as high on Melton as me.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Windhorst claims a small market team has made an interesting offer to Philly for Simmons. Nothing better than vague Windhorst reporting.

But let’s say it has some credibility to it, who makes the most sense? Cavs? Spurs? Pacers? Sac? NO?

I think he also said it was a mystery team, or a team not yet mentioned. So we'd have to remove Cavs, Spurs, Pacers, Sacramento from that list?

Maybe the Pelicans.

I kind of wonder about NO also. Simmons is known locally from his LSU days. Griffin would love to bring in another name I’m sure and has proven that building a balanced roster is not one of his strong suits. They have assets to play with. I could see them making an “interesting offer”.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Add to that the fact that Neil Olshey declined to bring Curry back to Portland and trying to act like Roco for Curry is some great deal for Portland is inexplicable.

Funny that you mention context when I was clear I wasn't saying Portland should swap RoCo for Curry, but multiple posters including you specifically mentioned Simons as the reason why they didn't want Curry.

We don't need Seth because we have Simons was repeated multiple times.....Including apparently here. And the fact that you are sticking by the Curry who left Portland and are completely ignoring the 2 seasons he had since...doesn't sound like someone interested in context to me.

Simons was mentioned because he is capable. I mentioned Curry was better but that he wouldn't get the same minutes in Portland playing behind Dame and Norman Powell. To Portland the improvement from Simons to Seth Curry is lost from the lost defense and depth from Roco to who? Seriously who picks up Roco's minutes at forward if Portland traded Roco for Curry? What does Portland do with Simons after such a trade? A Seth for Roco swap simply doesn't make sense for Portland.

[Ballerhogger]

Ben wants to be in CA he cant go the lakers. So i see only 2 actual options one for the clippers and one for the kings

Kings trade Bagely and Buddy +1 for Ben
LAC trade Morris +Eric Bledose at the deadline

[HartfordWhalers]

Could LAC really afford to give up both Morris and Bledsoe without getting more than just Simmons?

[Slim Tubby]

Still surprised Rivers hasn't been reprimanded or at least forced to apologize, so that the possibility of running it back is at least most open if they don't get the deal they are looking for

Apologize for what? Being honest? All he said IDK if a Ben is a championship level PG. That’s hardly damning.

The fault is entirely Ben’s. He chose to not dunk a ball from 1 foot away. He is the one who gets rattled and rushes his FT’s. Sure, he can ask out all he wants, but he is in a position of weakness here. If anyone involved on Ben’s side was smart, he would’ve picked a team and Klutch would’ve gone to that team with promises of FA’s in the future if they made a deal for Ben now. That hasn’t happened, and now Ben is welcome to show up, sit out, or fake an injury all year. Who cares. The Sixers aren’t a championship team with or without him, and the only way they can get there is by getting a good return for him.

So we wait.

You have some very good takes on here but this isn’t one of them. Under no circumstances should coaches, management or ownership ever air the dirty laundry in public about a player…ever. There simply is no benefit to anyone involved. It humiliates the player, destroys relationships and absolutely crushes trade value. This is one of the bigger blunders in recent NBA memory.

As for “we wait”, every day that goes by, Ben’s trade value drops and there is no putting the genie back in the bottle at this point. When you also factor in the terrible contract of Harris, bold action is necessary. Fire Morey, fire Rivers and trade Embiid for what might be the biggest rebuild package ever received for a player and let the “process” begin again. Philly, if anything, is a bold city.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zimpy27]

Could LAC really afford to give up both Morris and Bledsoe without getting more than just Simmons?

PG13 for Simmons remains a good trade concept but that locker room would need to be sorted out. Do you keep Doc and Seth?

[Ballerhogger]

Could LAC really afford to give up both Morris and Bledsoe without getting more than just Simmons?

if were to go down the perimeter defense and rebounding would drastically improve , they have jackson and others like Kennard hopfully have bounce back year. Winnnig cures any hate between them. I like Moriss but hes replaceable for the clippers