Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

Note30 · Post #181 » by **Note30** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:05 am

zimpy27 wrote:Would you trade Beasley/McDaniels to get Gordon?

Beasley and McDaniels or Beasley or McDaniels?

Also which Gordon?

shrink · Post #182 » by **shrink** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:10 pm

Domejandro wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Would you trade Beasley/McDaniels to get Gordon?

Absolutely not, and I say that as someone who thinks the rest of the forum is lost in the sauce regarding Jaden McDaniels being “untradable”.

Right. A good and a great contract for Aaron Gordon’s mediocre one? Nah.

KGdaBom · Post #183 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:33 pm

Domejandro wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Would you trade Beasley/McDaniels to get Gordon?

Absolutely not, and I say that as someone who thinks the rest of the forum is lost in the sauce regarding Jaden McDaniels being “untradable”.

Ditto

moonpie · Post #184 » by **moonpie** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:00 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #185 » by **Klomp** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:37 pm

moonpie wrote:

Read on Twitter

Similar skill set as Simmons, but Ben is a level up. Gordon now due 23 mil AAV

Post #186 » by **Domejandro** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:43 pm

That extension is vile.

Neeva · Post #187 » by **Neeva** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 pm

Is the denver GM okay?

shrink · Post #188 » by **shrink** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:39 pm

Neeva wrote:Is the denver GM okay?

LOL! To be honest, this is characteristic for the Nuggets front office. They tend to overpay players they have made a commitment to, either through trade or the draft. Unfortunately, they also have a history of being very aware of the luxury threshold. They need his defense, but I hope this contract doesn’t bite them in the butt.

KGdaBom · Post #189 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:01 pm

shrink wrote:
Neeva wrote:Is the denver GM okay?

LOL! To be honest, this is characteristic for the Nuggets front office. They tend to overpay players they have made a commitment to, either through trade or the draft. Unfortunately, they also have a history of being very aware of the luxury threshold. They need his defense, but I hope this contract doesn’t bite them in the butt.

I hope it does bite them in the butt. Why would you want to wish them well.

Post #190 » by **Klomp** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:03 pm

It really isn't that much of an overpay. Just shows where the market actually is.

KGdaBom · Post #191 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:09 pm

Klomp wrote:It really isn't that much of an overpay. Just shows where the market actually is.

I still hope it bites them in the butt. :lol:

Slim Tubby · Post #192 » by **Slim Tubby** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:50 am

Klomp wrote:It really isn't that much of an overpay. Just shows where the market actually is.

I agree 100%…$23M is the going rate for a marginal talent like Aaron Gordon. I’m just glad we’re not the team absorbing that salary cap hit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shangrila · Post #193 » by **shangrila** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:40 am

Slim Tubby wrote:
Klomp wrote:It really isn't that much of an overpay. Just shows where the market actually is.

I agree 100%…$23M is the going rate for a marginal talent like Aaron Gordon. I’m just glad we’re not the team absorbing that salary cap hit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I can't comment on the intangibles stuff but he seems to be on a similar level to a Marcus Smart, who just got a similar deal. And if the cap really does start increasing again then it might not be so bad by the end of it.

It just...doesn't really feel like a discount, so why do it now? I guess it helps Gordon and team chemistry but from a team perspective it feels like weird timing. Maybe Gordon insinuated he might leave?

younggunsmn · Post #194 » by **younggunsmn** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:33 pm

That Gordon contract is gross. Its going to be even worse when it comes time to pay Michael Porter Jr.
Its like they learned absolutely nothing from the Gary Harris contract.
Sunk cost fallacy rears its ugly head, they gave up picks for him so now they will overpay him.

Marcus Smart is a much more elite defender at a more premium position. I just don't see what the draw with Gordon is, he's just so mediocre at EVERYTHING but dunking.

FinnTheHuman · Post #195 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:35 pm

shangrila wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:
Klomp wrote:It really isn't that much of an overpay. Just shows where the market actually is.

I agree 100%…$23M is the going rate for a marginal talent like Aaron Gordon. I’m just glad we’re not the team absorbing that salary cap hit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I can't comment on the intangibles stuff but he seems to be on a similar level to a Marcus Smart, who just got a similar deal. And if the cap really does start increasing again then it might not be so bad by the end of it.

It just...doesn't really feel like a discount, so why do it now? I guess it helps Gordon and team chemistry but from a team perspective it feels like weird timing. Maybe Gordon insinuated he might leave?

Nuggets are my 2nd favorite team after the Wolves, so I'm pretty sure my take is accurate: when the Nuggets traded for Gordon, he got his offensive role heavily reduced compared to his Magic days, played as their 5th option offensively in that offensively super-talented starting lineup, so he was doing all the little things, defending hard, cutting, screening, sitting in the corner, being the Swiss army knife type of guy. The Nuggets had the best record in the league from the moment they traded for him, and they didn't let the playoffs make them forget that, because half their team was injured for the playoffs.

If the Nuggets didn't extend him now, then suddenly Gordon is in the contract year this season, not willing to play the 5th option glue guy role, looking to get his offensively, so that he would get better offers next off-season. That would make the Nuggets a worse team with Gordon playing for himself, demanding touches, and they don't want that, they're the 2nd tier contender right now, with Jokic becoming eligible for extension next summer, which the Nuggets really want him to sign right away. They gave Gordon the contract so that he could be at peace with playing the role that would worsen the potential offers next summer if they didn't extend him.

Anyway, it is completely understandable and a great move by the Nuggets, Gordon is super-underrated as a glue guy who can defend basically every position. People forget that in 2019 1st round he gave Kawhi a harder time than any other defender did in that Raps title run, if they ever even knew that. Marcus Smart is a 6'3'' 220lbs guy, Gordon is a 6'8'' 235lbs guy, Gordon is a more versatile defender because of that.

Wolveswin · Post #196 » by **Wolveswin** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:03 pm

Who here like me would strongly consider Isaac?

Maybe after a 8-12 game sample size healthy return.

Prince + Okogie or Layman + Bolmaro + 1sts and Swaps

FOR

Isaac + Filler

No way do Wolves entertain including McDaniels.

KGdaBom · Post #197 » by **KGdaBom** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:43 pm

Wolveswin wrote:Who here like me would strongly consider Isaac?

Maybe after a 8-12 game sample size healthy return.

Prince + Okogie or Layman + Bolmaro + 1sts and Swaps

FOR

Isaac + Filler

No way do Wolves entertain including McDaniels.

You keep talking about Isaac Healthy. Why do you do this. He will never achieve his preinjury potential. He is likely out of the league within a couple years. If he does against all odds come back strong and healthy why would the Magic want to trade him of all people?

jpatrick · Post #198 » by **jpatrick** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:54 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Who here like me would strongly consider Isaac?

Maybe after a 8-12 game sample size healthy return.

Prince + Okogie or Layman + Bolmaro + 1sts and Swaps

FOR

Isaac + Filler

No way do Wolves entertain including McDaniels.

You keep talking about Isaac Healthy. Why do you do this. He will never achieve his preinjury potential. He is likely out of the league within a couple years. If he does against all odds come back strong and healthy why would the Magic want to trade him of all people?

This. If he regains his all-nba defensive form, Orlando isn’t moving him. That was the beauty of Simmons, he was a younger, healthy, star-ish PF that was available and seemingly willing to come here.

Something will hopefully shake loose in the first half of the season, because this team is going no where with Vanderbilt as the starting PF.

shrink · Post #199 » by **shrink** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:25 pm

If Isaac is fully recovered, he would be a great fit with KAT, and has a chance to be a top 10 defensive player in the NBA. The Magic also signed him to a contract that addresses the injury risk that has been evident his entire career.

Originally said to be an $80MM deal, Isaac’s new contract actually has a base value of $69.6MM, or $17.4MM per year. It also includes $2.6MM in annual incentives that he’ll receive for each season in which he plays in 70 of 82 games (or the prorated equivalent in a shortened season). So Isaac will earn the full $80MM only if he stays healthy enough to appear in 70 or more games for four consecutive seasons starting in 2021/22.

The Magic further protected themselves by including Exhibit 3 language in the deal, per Hollinger and Marks. While the exact details of that language are unclear, an Exhibit 3 clause allows a team to limit or eliminate a player’s salary protection in the event of a specific injury — presumably, for Isaac, the language will cover any ongoing issues related to his left knee, following this year’s left ACL tear.

That said, right now, he is no star and certainly not a superstar. He might be someday, if he improves offensively AND stays healthy (big ifs). He is not at a level where teams offer picks and swaps. I think the Magic would want to hold onto him and gamble, but if they wanted to get younger (he still only turns 24 next month), I feel we should be offering something like Prince, Bolmaro and a protected 1st.

Wolveswin · Post #200 » by **Wolveswin** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:06 pm

jpatrick wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Who here like me would strongly consider Isaac?

Maybe after a 8-12 game sample size healthy return.

Prince + Okogie or Layman + Bolmaro + 1sts and Swaps

FOR

Isaac + Filler

No way do Wolves entertain including McDaniels.

You keep talking about Isaac Healthy. Why do you do this. He will never achieve his preinjury potential. He is likely out of the league within a couple years. If he does against all odds come back strong and healthy why would the Magic want to trade him of all people?

This. If he regains his all-nba defensive form, Orlando isn’t moving him. That was the beauty of Simmons, he was a younger, healthy, star-ish PF that was available and seemingly willing to come here.

Something will hopefully shake loose in the first half of the season, because this team is going no where with Vanderbilt as the starting PF.

Didn’t know we had not one but two of Isaac’s doctors here.

Simmons was a walking injury concern at one point too. Isaac, sure, has more. Good thing he does have some because he wouldn’t be remotely close to available otherwise.

So the question is, is he worth the risk at the price?

And before the Wolves dismiss as you two have (your right as your opinion) Wolves would do their homework. Are the injuries reoccurring (same injury)? Not all injuries are the same, what are the circumstances? Do our medical staff give him a thumbs up. How does he look in that 8-15 game sample size? What kind of injury clauses are in his contract?