Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd?

[dc]

FWIW, Kobe never refused to report to Charlotte. He simply made known before the draft known that he was only playing for the Lakers (and maybe Knicks, IIRC). The trade to Charlotte was pre-arranged.

Kobe said years later that he would've played for whoever drafted him. He wouldn't have had a choice.

NBA teams own a player's draft rights indefinitely if they don't sign a contract with them. Orlando forever had draft rights to Fran Vazquez after they drafted him in 2005, after he said he preferred to just stay in Spain. If he had change of heart and wanted to play in the NBA, the Magic would've still have draft rights to him.

Curry tried the same thing in 2009, trying to steer himself to the Knicks. Except this time a team that really liked him drafted him despite Curry's agent telling the team in no uncertain terms not to draft his client. And surprise, surprise; Curry showed up to summer league and training camp.

[The4thHorseman]

Kobe didn't stack the deck to avoid competition. He competed and won the right way.

...the guy who refused to report to the team that wanted to draft him in Charlotte?

Refusing to play for Charlotte =/= colluding with the best players in the league to form superteams and avoid competition.

I wonder how many more of you are going to try and parrot that ridiculous argument.

Calipari and the Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall. He told them not to bother cause he wouldn't sign and would only play for the Lakers. He chose to ride the bench his first 2yrs in LA instead of being the starting SG for NJ.

Didnt want to try to build a contender, he wanted to be on one right away.

[Stalwart]

...the guy who refused to report to the team that wanted to draft him in Charlotte?

Refusing to play for Charlotte =/= colluding with the best players in the league to form superteams and avoid competition.

I wonder how many more of you are going to try and parrot that ridiculous argument.

Calipari and the Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall. He told them not to bother cause he wouldn't sign and would only play for the Lakers. He chose to ride the bench his first 2yrs in LA instead of being the starting SG for NJ.

Didnt want to try to build a contender, he wanted to be on one right away.

No lol. The Lakers weren't real contenders prior to Kobe. And he wanted to go to LA so he could build his brand and make money.

[The_Hater]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

LOL. Why don’t we just put an asterisk beside every ring won in NBA history?

It’s incredible the lengths today’s fans go through in order to discredit the elite players. But hey, the worst poster on this site gave you an AND1 so you have that going for you.

Where did OP go wrong? Did you just read the title and not read the actual OP? Its incredible the length you went through to try and discredit OP by blatantly lying by saying that only one person liked the post when its actually 6. Are we all the worse posters in the world for liking his post lol? Even a Laker fan And1 the post and Lebron plays for the Lakers lol.

Your post is going to continue to decrease in value because 6 people AND1 the post and by the time you respond it will probably be more people than that. Your post is not going to age well at all This is just an all around awful post

How do you decide which account to make posts from? Coin flip? Or do you have multiple personalities?

[infinite11285]

Or you could just disagree and...move on.

Kobe did not want to play with Charlotte or some other teams in his draft day...He wanted to play in a big market from day one.

Big market =/= stacking the deck to avoid competition though.

Kobe knew that he couldn't win in Charlotte. It’s that simple. The Lakers could attract talent that he knew Charlotte couldn't compete with.

Franchises build teams to win titles. There isn't a single sports organization in the world that makes a roster with the best interest of everyone else in mind.

Every franchise actively looks to eliminate as much competition as possible; that's how these things go.

[Stalwart]

Kobe did not want to play with Charlotte or some other teams in his draft day...He wanted to play in a big market from day one.

Big market =/= stacking the deck to avoid competition though.

Kobe knew that he couldn't win in Charlotte. It’s that simple. The Lakers could attract talent that he knew Charlotte couldn't compete with.

Franchises build teams to win titles. There isn't a single sports organization in the world that makes a roster with the best interest of everyone else in mind.

Every franchise actively looks to eliminate as much competition as possible; that's how these things go.

Franchises do that. Players then go out and compete. They work with what they got and face whats in front of them. Or at least it used to be that way.

[Optms]

Hilarious people are putting down Kawhi as someone who "tried to do it right" when he was a total jerk and forced a trade from the Spurs, then tried his best to create his own superteam with the Clippers. What a joke.

This.

Kawhi didn't even want to go to Toronto. He was only there because Popovich refused to trade him to LA. Even a title could not make him stay. It was all about being in LA, not titles.

[infinite11285]

Big market =/= stacking the deck to avoid competition though.

Kobe knew that he couldn't win in Charlotte. It’s that simple. The Lakers could attract talent that he knew Charlotte couldn't compete with.

Franchises build teams to win titles. There isn't a single sports organization in the world that makes a roster with the best interest of everyone else in mind.

Every franchise actively looks to eliminate as much competition as possible; that's how these things go.

Franchises do that. Players then go out and compete. They work with what they got and face whats in front of them. Or at least it used to be that way.

It's no longer that way. Players now also hold the power to eliminate as much competition as possible. The days of nonexistent franchise loyalty while players display abject loyalty are over.

[The4thHorseman]

Refusing to play for Charlotte =/= colluding with the best players in the league to form superteams and avoid competition.

I wonder how many more of you are going to try and parrot that ridiculous argument.

Calipari and the Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall. He told them not to bother cause he wouldn't sign and would only play for the Lakers. He chose to ride the bench his first 2yrs in LA instead of being the starting SG for NJ.

Didnt want to try to build a contender, he wanted to be on one right away.

No lol. The Lakers weren't real contenders prior to Kobe. And he wanted to go to LA so he could build his brand and make money.

Yes lol. LA was the 4 seed the year prior and the 2nd most successful franchise in NBA history. NJ was a lottery team and a history of being a **** franchise.

He couldn't make money or build a brand in NJ? At least James had no hesitance signing with the 17 win Cavs and tried to build a contender as the go to guy. Kobe...... not so much. He did just the opposite.

[Stalwart]

Kobe knew that he couldn't win in Charlotte. It’s that simple. The Lakers could attract talent that he knew Charlotte couldn't compete with.

Franchises build teams to win titles. There isn't a single sports organization in the world that makes a roster with the best interest of everyone else in mind.

Every franchise actively looks to eliminate as much competition as possible; that's how these things go.

Franchises do that. Players then go out and compete. They work with what they got and face whats in front of them. Or at least it used to be that way.

It's no longer that way. Players now also hold the power to eliminate as much competition as possible. The days of nonexistent franchise loyalty while players display abject loyalty are over.

The sky is also blue. This added nothing to the conversation.

[Stalwart]

Calipari and the Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall. He told them not to bother cause he wouldn't sign and would only play for the Lakers. He chose to ride the bench his first 2yrs in LA instead of being the starting SG for NJ.

Didnt want to try to build a contender, he wanted to be on one right away.

No lol. The Lakers weren't real contenders prior to Kobe. And he wanted to go to LA so he could build his brand and make money.

Yes lol. LA was the 4 seed the year prior and the 2nd most successful franchise in NBA history. NJ was a lottery team and a history of being a **** franchise.

He couldn't make money or build a brand in NJ? At least James had no hesitance signing with the 17 win Cavs and tried to build a contender as the go to guy. Kobe...... not so much. He did just the opposite.

Whatever bro lol. Im not falling for your weak strawmen and equivocations. Its not remotely close to the same thing and thats just that.

[infinite11285]

Franchises do that. Players then go out and compete. They work with what they got and face whats in front of them. Or at least it used to be that way.

It's no longer that way. Players now also hold the power to eliminate as much competition as possible. The days of nonexistent franchise loyalty while players display abject loyalty are over.

The sky is also blue. This added nothing to the conversation.

Neither does the purpose of this thread or your counterargument to everyone that disagrees with you.

You can add whatever asterisks you want to whatever you feel like it, but because others punch holes in your ridiculous logic you feel the need to adamantly argue and be rude?

You can feel how you want, but others don't have to agree with it.

[BostonCouchGM]

Every Lebron ring deserves an asterisk. First he had to form a super team in the weakest Eastern Conference in league history to win in MIA. Then we have the rigged 2016 Finals. And obviously the bubble was a joke. The Warriors rings with KD deserve asterisks too. That's a complete joke and equivalent to what Lebron formed in MIA. But at least Steph has a legit title unlike the others, in 2015, to hang his hat on.

[The4thHorseman]

No lol. The Lakers weren't real contenders prior to Kobe. And he wanted to go to LA so he could build his brand and make money.

Yes lol. LA was the 4 seed the year prior and the 2nd most successful franchise in NBA history. NJ was a lottery team and a history of being a **** franchise.

He couldn't make money or build a brand in NJ? At least James had no hesitance signing with the 17 win Cavs and tried to build a contender as the go to guy. Kobe...... not so much. He did just the opposite.

Whatever bro lol. Im not falling for your weak strawmen and equivocations. Its not remotely close to the same thing and thats just that.

Stating facts is trying to get you to fall for something??

Enjoy the L.

[loserX]

Big market =/= stacking the deck to avoid competition though.

Kobe knew that he couldn't win in Charlotte. It’s that simple. The Lakers could attract talent that he knew Charlotte couldn't compete with.

Franchises build teams to win titles. There isn't a single sports organization in the world that makes a roster with the best interest of everyone else in mind.

Every franchise actively looks to eliminate as much competition as possible; that's how these things go.

Franchises do that. Players then go out and compete. They work with what they got and face whats in front of them. Or at least it used to be that way.

Except when they demanded to be traded because they didn't have enough help.

[Stalwart]

It's no longer that way. Players now also hold the power to eliminate as much competition as possible. The days of nonexistent franchise loyalty while players display abject loyalty are over.

The sky is also blue. This added nothing to the conversation.

Neither does the purpose of this thread or your counterargument to everyone that disagrees with you.

You can add whatever asterisks you want to whatever you feel like it, but because others punch holes in your ridiculous logic you feel the need to adamantly argue and be rude?

You can feel how you want, but others don't have to agree with it.

Yes, and grass is green. all you're doing is saying "well thats how it is now" as if I ever said anything different. Im saying it shouldn't be that way for the reasons Ive stated. You dont challenge those reasons or defend the superteams. You just make empty statements like "well player collude now, thats how it is".

[Stalwart]

Yes lol. LA was the 4 seed the year prior and the 2nd most successful franchise in NBA history. NJ was a lottery team and a history of being a **** franchise.

He couldn't make money or build a brand in NJ? At least James had no hesitance signing with the 17 win Cavs and tried to build a contender as the go to guy. Kobe...... not so much. He did just the opposite.

Whatever bro lol. Im not falling for your weak strawmen and equivocations. Its not remotely close to the same thing and thats just that.

Stating facts is trying to get you to fall for something??

Enjoy the L.

Its not the same thing. Thats all you guys got. Strawmen and false equivocations. Its weak.

[twyzted]

Those Cavs teams outside of Lebron weren’t good at all.

Vs Orlando in the 2009 ECF

Against the #1 defence in the league, LeBron averaged 39-8-8, .59.1 TS%.

The Cavs had a 112.9 O rating when he was on the court.

That is a +11.0 offense relative to Orlando’s regular-season D rating.

That would be a historic offensive playoff performance.

In 2 of Cleveland’s losses, LeBron’s on-court plus/minus was positive.

That means the Cavs outscored the Magic in those games, but the Cavs bench gave up the lead when LeBron was sitting.

In the Orlando series, LeBron had 3 teammates who averaged 10+ PPG.

But they combined for a .50.5 TS%.

In the playoffs, LeBron had a 37.4 PER and the 2nd best PER on his team had a 14.5 PER.

That’s a 22.9 PER gap which is the highest in NBA history between the #1 and #2 guy.

Game 2 Lebron was -7 which the cavs won.

Might want to check out +/- for game 6 in 12/13 finals since you are so fond using on-court plus/minus.

Lebron has basically single-handedly carried Lottery level teams to the finals in 2007 and 2018 and to the playoffs in 2009 and 2010.

The Cavs record with Lebron in 2018 was 50 wins and 32 losses.

The Cavs record without Lebron in 2019, once he left for LA, was 19 wins and 63 losses

That is a 31 win difference in the space of one year all because Lebron left.

The Cavs record was 61 wins and 21 losses in 2010.

However, the Cavs record without Lebron in 2011 once he left to Miami was 19 wins and 63 losses

That is a 42 win difference in the space of one year all because Lebron left for Miami.

17/18 lakers 35-47
Lebron Joins
18/19 Lakers 37-45
Ad joins
19/20 lakers 52-19

So are we gonna argue that Ad carried a lottery team to a title?

Nah we're just gonna sweep significant injuries under the rug

What the 17 games Lebron missed?

[JayMKE]

The asterisks at this point are just crazy and usually some fan of another "asterisked" team/player being defensive/jilted/pettty, it's safe to say the term doesn't mean that much. What matters? Scoreboard, simple as.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Out of curiosity, is there one specific way that one is allowed to win an NBA championship?