Trade Ideas

[Harper4Ferry?]

Something to consider, not saying to do it, but to consider..

Cle sends Rubio, Osman, Love
Hou sends Danuel House, Wall

Before you get angry-
Cleve can take House in for the Javale trade exception and can trade Love+Osman for Wall directly which allows us to take back a TPE for the entirety of Rubio’s salary plus 100K(17M and some change). Just a thought anyways.

Ok ... but why?

You like House that much? Or do you think Wall does something for us?

I'm not saying to do it, but I'm saying that we should think about it because-
House has some value in a position of need.
Dumping Osman and Love frees up 36.3 vs next years cap.
Bringing in Wall adds 47 million to next years cap, so that is 11 million more than the Osman/Love stiff combo.
Wall is probably a better player than Rubio, the same Rubio that we'll surely dump at the trade deadline anyways.
Having a 17.9 million dollar TPE available next summer would be nice. If the Wall thing doesn't work out, we'd just buy him out anyways at the end of the season.

[jbk1234]

Something to consider, not saying to do it, but to consider..

Cle sends Rubio, Osman, Love
Hou sends Danuel House, Wall

Before you get angry-
Cleve can take House in for the Javale trade exception and can trade Love+Osman for Wall directly which allows us to take back a TPE for the entirety of Rubio’s salary plus 100K(17M and some change). Just a thought anyways.

Ok ... but why?

You like House that much? Or do you think Wall does something for us?

I'm not saying to do it, but I'm saying that we should think about it because-
House has some value in a position of need.
Dumping Osman and Love frees up 36.3 vs next years cap.
Bringing in Wall adds 47 million to next years cap, so that is 11 million more than the Osman/Love stiff combo.
Wall is probably a better player than Rubio, the same Rubio that we'll surely dump at the trade deadline anyways.
Having a 17.9 million dollar TPE available next summer would be nice. If the Wall thing doesn't work out, we'd just buy him out anyways at the end of the season.

Wall is not a better player than Rubio, he takes more shots, which shouldn't be confused with being a shooter, so he scores more. He's not a better defender. He doesn't run an offense better. He's not a better passer. He's lost a step since his surgery.

Also, he's been a locker room malcontent his entire career. He's had off the court issues. He thinks he's better then he is. He wants to start. He won't be happy playing for a rebuilding team and he'll be toxic coming off the bench for one. I don't think he can play with Garland, and I know he can't play with Sexton.

I'm not convinced he'd get an MLE offer on the market today, he's already proclaimed that he's not giving any money back, and he's owed $90M+ over the next two years.

He's as close as you get to untradable in the NBA. Unless the Rockets are willing to attach Green to him, they're not, this is entirely performative on the part of the Rockets. This is when you hand the reins over to the agent and say we're happy to work with you, now go find us a trade partner.

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[ecuhus1981]

Hello everyone, I have another trade idea! As always, I welcome all constructive criticism. As a Nets fan, I'm impartial in this scenario. I just like to build trade proposals!

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/15adIegfE7i--u/cavs-thunder-and-sixers

CLE trades Love/Sexton/23CLE1st/25CLE1st/27CLE1st for Simmons/Favors/Joe
The Cavaliers consolidate assets to bring in a young All-Star, who adds perimeter defense and playmaking.
Simmons, Garland, Okoro, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Osman, Mobley, Favors


OKC trades Favors/Williams/Roby for Love/Thybulle/Maxey/27CLE1st
The Thunder leverage capspace for quality perimeter prospects. They could rehabilitate Kevin's value, or negotiate a buyout and voila! More capspace!
Alexander, Dort, Giddey, Pokusevski, Love
Maxey, Maledon, Thybulle, Deck, Muscala


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Maxey/Joe for Sexton/Williams/Roby/23CLE1st//25CLE1st
The Sixers trade Ben for Collin... but hear me out! This is a calculated pre-move. By acquiring Sexton now, they can negotiate an extension before the start of the regular season. If the right star became available mid-season, they could include him in the deal, and he'll be a more attractive asset since he'll be under contract for 4-5 more seasons. Normally, BYC would complicate a superstar trade because of the salary difference, BUT that's the beauty of this transaction. The outgoing salary is $40mil, and the incoming players fit neatly into the Horford TPE. Therefore, this deal creates a new, $40mil TPE! You could absorb Beal, Lillard, Ingram or any other star into that TPE, and send back Sexton and the Cleveland 1sts! It's no guarantee, but it's a smart risk to maximize Ben's value return and Joel's window.
Sexton, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Williams, Roby, Drummond

[jbk1234]

Hello everyone, I have another trade idea! As always, I welcome all constructive criticism. As a Nets fan, I'm impartial in this scenario. I just like to build trade proposals!

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/15adIegfE7i--u/cavs-thunder-and-sixers

CLE trades Love/Sexton/23CLE1st/25CLE1st/27CLE1st for Simmons/Favors/Joe
The Cavaliers consolidate assets to bring in a young All-Star, who adds perimeter defense and playmaking.
Simmons, Garland, Okoro, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Osman, Mobley, Favors


OKC trades Favors/Williams/Roby for Love/Thybulle/Maxey/27CLE1st
The Thunder leverage capspace for quality perimeter prospects. They could rehabilitate Kevin's value, or negotiate a buyout and voila! More capspace!
Alexander, Dort, Giddey, Pokusevski, Love
Maxey, Maledon, Thybulle, Deck, Muscala


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Maxey/Joe for Sexton/Williams/Roby/23CLE1st//25CLE1st
The Sixers trade Ben for Collin... but hear me out! This is a calculated pre-move. By acquiring Sexton now, they can negotiate an extension before the start of the regular season. If the right star became available mid-season, they could include him in the deal, and he'll be a more attractive asset since he'll be under contract for 4-5 more seasons. Normally, BYC would complicate a superstar trade because of the salary difference, BUT that's the beauty of this transaction. The outgoing salary is $40mil, and the incoming players fit neatly into the Horford TPE. Therefore, this deal creates a new, $40mil TPE! You could absorb Beal, Lillard, Ingram or any other star into that TPE, and send back Sexton and the Cleveland 1sts! It's no guarantee, but it's a smart risk to maximize Ben's value return and Joel's window.
Sexton, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Williams, Roby, Drummond

This is like the equivalent of 5 first round picks. Simmons just doesn't have this value.

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[JonFromVA]

Hopefully, the entire Kevin Love experience has taught folks that there are sub basements below rock bottom. I'm very worried about Simmons free throw shooting. If you can't shoot, you can't shoot. But don't tell me you can't get in the gym and work on your free throws as a max player. That's very problematic for a number reasons.

The red flags regarding Simmons have been there from the beginning, but his talent is such that he can potentially help a team like ours get to the playoffs. You just have to go in without expectation of Ben changing and instead focus on how you can play to his strengths.

Like for instance if we can't figure out how to construct a team and design an offense so he doesn't end-up standing next to the rim and clogging up the paint - we have no business trading for him. If he's the kind of player that's not going to contribute unless the ball is in his hands, do not trade for him unless we plan to put the ball in his hands.

Common sense ... you'd think ...

You can't play to a player's strengths if the other team has decided to hack him as a tactic and he can't make his free throws. That's the sub basement with Simmons, opposing teams start hacking him in the regular season and it works.

Sure, if he's mentally broken and can't shoot better than 30% from the line in his career ever again, but it's a fairly safe bet he will be back around 60% again. The trick will be getting his mind settled in the playoffs, but those are first world problems for our team.

[KuruptedCav]

I don’t like Simmons, so the only way I’m buying is at a “discount” and an eye on winning now…

I’d dig this:

Cavs In: Ben Simmons, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry
Cavs Out: Kevin Love, Collin Sexton, Ricky Rubio, 2022 unprotected FRP, 2024 top5

Rockets In: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio
Rockets Out: John Wall, Eric Gordon, 2022 Brooklyn #1

76ers In: John Wall, Collin Sexton, Cavs 2022 #1, Nets 2022 #1, and Cavs 2024 #1
76ers Out: Ben Simmons, Seth Curry

So the 76ers get their name player in Wall, take the flyer on Sexton, and get 3FRPs. Wall/Milton, Sexton/Thybulle is a complementary backcourt.

The Rockets clear space in 2022 and spend a FRP to save $40 million.

Cavs get the shooting needed for Ben and pay the premium for an interchangeably complementary roster…

PG: Garland/Curry
SG: Gordon/Okoro
SF: Simmons/Cedi
PF: Markkanen/Mobley
C: Allen/Karbengle

Or wait til December, use Green instead of Curry and replace the 2024 FRP with 2x SRPs.


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[toooskies]

I don’t like Simmons, so the only way I’m buying is at a “discount” and an eye on winning now…

I’d dig this:

Cavs In: Ben Simmons, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry
Cavs Out: Kevin Love, Collin Sexton, 2022 unprotected FRP, 2024 top5

Rockets In: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio
Rockets Out: John Wall, Eric Gordon, 2022 Brooklyn #1

76ers In: John Wall, Collin Sexton, Cavs 2022 #1, Nets 2022 #1, and Cavs 2024 #1
76ers Out: Ben Simmons, Seth Curry

So the 76ers get their name player in Wall, take the flyer on Sexton, and get 3FRPs. Wall/Milton, Sexton/Thybulle is a complementary backcourt.

The Rockets clear space in 2022 and spend a FRP to save $40 million.

Cavs get the shooting needed for Ben and pay the premium for an interchangeably complementary roster…

PG: Garland/Curry
SG: Gordon/Okoro
SF: Simmons/Cedi
PF: Markkanen/Mobley
C: Allen/Karbengle

Or wait til December, use Green instead of Curry and replace the 2024 FRP with 2x SRPs.


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Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Foolish to give up a 2022 unprotected pick with (at least) 2-3 #1 overall type guys in the pool.

[JonFromVA]

Foolish to give up a 2022 unprotected pick with (at least) 2-3 #1 overall type guys in the pool.

There's only a couple of things fans from other teams seem to want from the Cavs now that Larry is traded and that's either our unprotected firsts or our second round picks that are likely near first rounders.

[jbk1234]

Foolish to give up a 2022 unprotected pick with (at least) 2-3 #1 overall type guys in the pool.

There's only a couple of things fans from other teams seem to want from the Cavs now that Larry is traded and that's either our unprotected firsts or our second round picks that are likely near first rounders.

Then don't make a trade. At this point, I think it's important to acknowledge where we're at:

(1) We couldn't move Sexton for the type of return we wanted and the reasons for wanting to trade him haven't simply gone away as a result of that.

(2) We drafted Mobley knowing he probably wasn't going to be an impact starter in year 1.

(3) We entered the offseason without a viable backup PG or SG on the roster and we traded our viable backup SF for Rubio. We couldn't fill either wing position with the MLE so we used the cap space on a stretch 4.

If the Magic would trade both Ross and Harris for Love and a protected 1st, I think that could impact not only this season, but next summer when we had enough space to make a run at a guy like Huerter. But short of that, this team isn't a swap-Cedi-for-another-bench-guy trade away from a play-in game.

The roster, particularly the starting unit, still has major issues. The only reason I haven't written off the season already is we haven't extended Sexton. Once that happens, it's all about next year.

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[KuruptedCav]

I don’t like Simmons, so the only way I’m buying is at a “discount” and an eye on winning now…

I’d dig this:

Cavs In: Ben Simmons, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry
Cavs Out: Kevin Love, Collin Sexton, 2022 unprotected FRP, 2024 top5

Rockets In: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio
Rockets Out: John Wall, Eric Gordon, 2022 Brooklyn #1

76ers In: John Wall, Collin Sexton, Cavs 2022 #1, Nets 2022 #1, and Cavs 2024 #1
76ers Out: Ben Simmons, Seth Curry

So the 76ers get their name player in Wall, take the flyer on Sexton, and get 3FRPs. Wall/Milton, Sexton/Thybulle is a complementary backcourt.

The Rockets clear space in 2022 and spend a FRP to save $40 million.

Cavs get the shooting needed for Ben and pay the premium for an interchangeably complementary roster…

PG: Garland/Curry
SG: Gordon/Okoro
SF: Simmons/Cedi
PF: Markkanen/Mobley
C: Allen/Karbengle

Or wait til December, use Green instead of Curry and replace the 2024 FRP with 2x SRPs.


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Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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[jbk1234]

I don’t like Simmons, so the only way I’m buying is at a “discount” and an eye on winning now…

I’d dig this:

Cavs In: Ben Simmons, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry
Cavs Out: Kevin Love, Collin Sexton, 2022 unprotected FRP, 2024 top5

Rockets In: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio
Rockets Out: John Wall, Eric Gordon, 2022 Brooklyn #1

76ers In: John Wall, Collin Sexton, Cavs 2022 #1, Nets 2022 #1, and Cavs 2024 #1
76ers Out: Ben Simmons, Seth Curry

So the 76ers get their name player in Wall, take the flyer on Sexton, and get 3FRPs. Wall/Milton, Sexton/Thybulle is a complementary backcourt.

The Rockets clear space in 2022 and spend a FRP to save $40 million.

Cavs get the shooting needed for Ben and pay the premium for an interchangeably complementary roster…

PG: Garland/Curry
SG: Gordon/Okoro
SF: Simmons/Cedi
PF: Markkanen/Mobley
C: Allen/Karbengle

Or wait til December, use Green instead of Curry and replace the 2024 FRP with 2x SRPs.


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Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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That's ridiculously generous to the Rockets. John Wall is on the worst contract in the NBA. Eric Gordon doesn't have positive value on his contract. They're getting off all kinds of bad salary for the cost of that Bucks pick?

There's also zero chance the Sixers add Curry. They'll need his spacing for Wall and Embiid.
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[KuruptedCav]

Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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That's ridiculously generous to the Rockets. John Wall is on the worst contract in the NBA. Eric Gordon doesn't have positive value on his contract. They're getting off all kinds of bad salary for the cost of that Bucks pick?

There's also zero chance the Sixers add Curry. They'll need his spacing for Wall and Embiid.
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Yeah, the pick is too low. Initially I had Cedi going to Houston, but that still would have been too low.

I was using the Pelicans/Grizz $35 mil to move down 7 spots, but, that should have been somewhere around #20 not #30. The added comp heading to Philly and the protections added to the Cavs pick.

Went back and looked at Gordon’s stats. I didn’t realize that he lost his 3pt shot the last two years. In my head he was still a high volume 38% from deep. Good catch.


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[toooskies]

I don’t like Simmons, so the only way I’m buying is at a “discount” and an eye on winning now…

I’d dig this:

Cavs In: Ben Simmons, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry
Cavs Out: Kevin Love, Collin Sexton, 2022 unprotected FRP, 2024 top5

Rockets In: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio
Rockets Out: John Wall, Eric Gordon, 2022 Brooklyn #1

76ers In: John Wall, Collin Sexton, Cavs 2022 #1, Nets 2022 #1, and Cavs 2024 #1
76ers Out: Ben Simmons, Seth Curry

So the 76ers get their name player in Wall, take the flyer on Sexton, and get 3FRPs. Wall/Milton, Sexton/Thybulle is a complementary backcourt.

The Rockets clear space in 2022 and spend a FRP to save $40 million.

Cavs get the shooting needed for Ben and pay the premium for an interchangeably complementary roster…

PG: Garland/Curry
SG: Gordon/Okoro
SF: Simmons/Cedi
PF: Markkanen/Mobley
C: Allen/Karbengle

Or wait til December, use Green instead of Curry and replace the 2024 FRP with 2x SRPs.


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Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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Will Wall contribute more on the court? His injury history is as bad as Love's and he had negative win shares last year when he did play.

[jbk1234]

Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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Will Wall contribute more on the court? His injury history is as bad as Love's and he had negative win shares last year when he did play.

At least Love is resigned to a bench role at this point.

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[KuruptedCav]

Missing Rubio going out from the Cavs.

I'm not sure this is a better deal for Philly than just taking Sexton/Love/picks or Sexton/Rubio/Osman/picks for Simmons-- the only reason he'd want Wall is to send him out to match Lillard/Beal. But if Morey's getting Wall, he won't want Sexton, he'll want Mobley.

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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Will Wall contribute more on the court? His injury history is as bad as Love's and he had negative win shares last year when he did play.

Maybe. Though I tend to be more trusting with players coming back from one bad injury than those with persistent nagging injuries.

But by more impact, I just mean that the starting PG on the 76ers vs 3rd big and the imbalance it creates on a roster.


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[toooskies]

Fixed. Thanks.

I don’t know that it’s better or worse. But I do figure that Wall will contribute more on court than Love, especially on a team like the 76ers. And if Morey is able to swing his deal with PTL, it likely doesn’t matter which trade. If he’s forced to ride it out until the trade deadline or next offseason….

I also think it’s easier to sell the fans on adding 2 20ppg scorers and 3FRPs, and the chance to catch lightening in a bottle.


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Will Wall contribute more on the court? His injury history is as bad as Love's and he had negative win shares last year when he did play.

Maybe. Though I tend to be more trusting with players coming back from one bad injury than those with persistent nagging injuries.

But by more impact, I just mean that the starting PG on the 76ers vs 3rd big and the imbalance it creates on a roster.


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Wall has been dealing with various knee problems for years in addition to his Achilles injury. His defense had already slipped before his heel issues.

But if your argument is that he may have impacts that may not be good but they'll be noticeable, sure, if you're looking for a scapegoat. That was Simmons' primary role on the team anyway, right?

[ecuhus1981]

Hello again, guys! How about this one, where you don't get Simmons, but help him escape Philly:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/ca14l8d6weSpXY/fairer-picks-cle-lac-phi

CLE trades Love/Osman/Sexton for Morris/Kennard
The Cavaliers upgrade their rotation while trimming payroll and creating a new $17mil TPE.
Garland, Okoro, Morris, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Kennard, Windler, Wade, Mobley


LAC trades Morris/Kennard/22LAC2nd/25DET2nd/25LAC2nd/28LAC1st for Simmons/Osman
The Clippers push all-in for the perfect addition: a star playmaker and versatile defender.
Jackson, George, Leonard, Simmons, Zubac
Bledsoe, Mann, Osman, Batum, Ibaka


PHI trades Simmons for Love/Sexton/22LAC2nd/25DET2nd/25LAC2nd/28LAC1st
The Sixers cut bait on a talented malcontent, and return an elite young scorer, a veteran stretch big and future picks.
Sexton, Green, Thybulle, Harris, Embiid
Maxey, Milton, Korkmaz, Love, Drummond

[mg]

I'd just rather let Love expire after next season then to give away an asset like Sexton just to dump him. I don't think the Cavs would want the Morris and/or Kennard long term contract either.

[toooskies]

Hello again, guys! How about this one, where you don't get Simmons, but help him escape Philly:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/ca14l8d6weSpXY/fairer-picks-cle-lac-phi

CLE trades Love/Osman/Sexton for Morris/Kennard
The Cavaliers upgrade their rotation while trimming payroll and creating a new $17mil TPE.
Garland, Okoro, Morris, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Kennard, Windler, Wade, Mobley


LAC trades Morris/Kennard/22LAC2nd/25DET2nd/25LAC2nd/28LAC1st for Simmons/Osman
The Clippers push all-in for the perfect addition: a star playmaker and versatile defender.
Jackson, George, Leonard, Simmons, Zubac
Bledsoe, Mann, Osman, Batum, Ibaka


PHI trades Simmons for Love/Sexton/22LAC2nd/25DET2nd/25LAC2nd/28LAC1st
The Sixers cut bait on a talented malcontent, and return an elite young scorer, a veteran stretch big and future picks.
Sexton, Green, Thybulle, Harris, Embiid
Maxey, Milton, Korkmaz, Love, Drummond

If Philly is taking Sexton/Love/2nds/distant 1st, the Cavs cut out LAC. No way the Cavs trade their leading scorer with the only long-term piece being a wing who only saw playoff minutes last year because of injuries.