Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[Chinook]

yea but what would SAS do with ben? they need rebuild hes not rebuilding piece.

There are plenty of ways to make it work. One of the holdups seems to be that a lot of teams who may be interested want to offer picks rather than players, San Antonio could be the connective tissue that facilitates a Simmons trade.

The catch with White is his health, and his current status as the Spurs best player. The Spurs (at least from comments on this board, and probably in real life due to his best player on the team status) want a haul back in a White trade. Yet Philly may be skeptical of taking him on as the main value in a Simmons deal if they don't trust him to stay healthy.

I basically wouldn't trade White in a Simmons trade precisely because he's the Spurs' best player and Simmons not being a rebuilding piece. You certainly don't trade for Simmons assuming you're going to be a contender year one, but you'd like to keep the competing piece that fits best with Simmons. There are other guys like Murray, Young and Poeltl who can be in championship rotations, but all of them are poor fits with Ben. Moving Derrick in a Simmons trade has to be immediately followed up with another big trade for a complimentary piece or a resignation that this year is a punt as guys like Walker, Johnson and Primo hopefully grow into better-fitting pieces.

That said, I'd also not trade White outside of a Simmons trade. It's just a poor direction for them. He's only 27 (and will not turn 28 until after the beginning of the next league year), is signed for four years, and is coming off a down season. There's no reason why the Spurs should sell low on him. That would require a team to substantially overpay by today's value standards. Teams rightfully wouldn't do that, so it's basically a non-starter.

The Spurs have plenty of connective tissue, though. They still have two large expiring contracts and a number of prospects and role-players who could add value to other teams. Them deciding to eat Hutchison rather than keeping his salary alive does remove some utility they'd have though.

[Roy The Natural]

Multi-year Playoff LEBRON is where the discrepancy lies.

Ben - '19-'21: 1.80

His 2016-2018 split scored a 1.53

McCollum's playoff impact has been rather abysmal.

His highest 3 year run was in between the years of 2015 & 2017 where he grades out barely positively with a 0.14

'19-'21: -0.32
'18-'20: -1.17
'17-'19: -0.50
'16-'18: -1.40

Him and Dame have been quite the underwhelming duo in terms of Lebron scores. I think the fact that they can't cover for each others weaknesses don't help, but I wouldn't be comfortable trading Ben for CJ without major compensation involved. He's more impactful and much younger.

Sure... I'll take the sample size that's 5-7x as large though. The Blazers haven't had the luxury of feeding on barely playoff teams like teams do in the East.

You're taking much of the Blazers playoff record and performance out of context. 3 of the last 6 years the Blazers faced off against the Warriors... 1 of the last 6 years the Blazers faced off against the Lakers when they won the Championship. Pretty much all of Ben Simmon's playoff impact is wrapped up in series against a Miami team who's best player was Goran Dragic. A Brooklyn team who's best player was D'Angelo Russel, and a Wizard's team last year that was sporting a semi-washed Westbrook and Beal that was below .500 on the season.

Simmons was abysmal and a clear negative on the court against Boston. He was mediocre at best against Toronto. You can view the Atlanta series however you'd like, but I think he put up a historically abysmal showing. Ben Simmons has played fine against borderline playoff teams in the Eastern Conference... However, those teams are where he's buoying all his impact. It's not apples to apples.

You can use hard-hitting passionate words, but the numbers don't lie. The Boston series and the Raptors series are encompassed in those numbers, and truth be told he was just fine in both of them.

Dame and CJ haven't been able to do much of note when they have gotten lesser opposition. It took them 7 to scrape by a mediocre Spurs side. They got thrashed and emasculated by Jrue, Rondo and a non contender Pels team. They weren't the Houston Rockets led by Harden here who were unluckily peaking alongside one of the greatest teams in NBA history. The Blazers inability to have gimme series' is because they've never had a true contender in the Damian Lillard era.

The only time in the last 8 years the Blazers lost to the Spurs the Spurs won the championship. They have two bad losses in the last 6-7 years. The Pelicans, and this last year against the Nuggets.

I agree with you that Ben Simmons is a more impactful player, even if regular season metrics don't really bear it out. However, it's fairly simple to contextually pushback against the "overall" numbers when Simmons didn't have to play a bunch of postseason series against eventual NBA champions. In the last 6 playoffs the Blazers have played the Warriors 3 times and the Lakers once. Getting bent over a barrel by vastly superior teams is going to effect overall numbers pretty readily in a sample size as small as we're looking at here. You can look at the +/- numbers over the playoff game logs and while there's noise there, the reality becomes quite clear.

Ben beat up on teams like Miami, Brooklyn, and Washington. CJ beat up on teams like OKC, injured lob city, and Denver (3 years ago). The difference is that outside of the mediocre teams (and even those teams were superior to the 76ers first round opponents) the Blazers smashed their head against a generational dynasty and another NBA champion. While the 76ers were playing against Atlanta and a Kyrie-less, rookie Tatum Celtics.

Like I said, I agree with the premise that Simmons is better, but you can't just kick context out the window. The playoff competition that the two players have been facing hasn't quite been the same. I'd argue that the regular season metrics portray a MUCH more accurate measure of impact given the contextual limitations of comparing playoff impact between the two.

I would concede that regular season impact I would give a slight edge to Simmons.

[babyjax13]

Well, it seems we are back to the Timberwolves being the only realistic destination, then.

[Ballerhogger]

Well, it seems we are back to the Timberwolves being the only realistic destination, then.

They’ve said they don’t want give up dlo , towns and ant … so … that leave us with pat and Beasley for Simmons .wolves would send 1st rounder.

[babyjax13]

Well, it seems we are back to the Timberwolves being the only realistic destination, then.

They’ve said they don’t want give up dlo , towns and ant … so …

Beasley + McDaniels + picks seems like a good package to me, tbh. Just a shot at something (OKC might not be the right team to send a starting small forward, thought about Anderson from MEM, as well).

Minnesota trades: Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, 2022 MIN 1st (1-10 protected, 1-4, unprotected), 2026 1st MIN (lottery protected, otherwise 2027 MIN 2nd)
Minnesota receives: Ben Simmons, [minimum player], [minimum player]
Minnesota gets a young star who fits perfectly w/Towns.

Philadelphia trades: Ben Simmons, [minimum player], [minimum player], 2022 PHI 1st (lottery protected, 2 2nds)
Philadelphia receives: Malik Beasley, DeJounte Murray, Lu Dort, 2023 DEN 1st (1-14 protected 3 years, then 2 2nds)
Philadelphia turns Simmons into a 20ppg shooting guard, an elite defender at point guard, and an elite wing defender who hits threes at just-below-average efficiency on high volume. I think they'd have a really good unit that can score well enough and really defend.

San Antonio trades: DeJounte Murray
San Antonio receives: Taurean Prince, 2022 PHI 1st (lottery protected, 2 2nds), 2026 1st MIN (lottery protected, otherwise 2027 MIN 2nd)
San Antonio moves White to starting point guard and opens up time for Vassell and Primo while returning two first.

Oklahoma City trades: Lu Dort, 2023 DEN 1st (1-14 protected 3 years, then 2 2nds)
Oklahoma City receives: Jaden McDaniels, 2022 MIN 1st (1-10 protected, 1-4 protected, unprotected)
Oklahoma City gambles on the Minnesota pick being better than the Denver pick, and with how many guards and wings they have, gets another prospect in the front court who can defend at an elite level and still hit open threes. This is the part I'm most unsure about.

[giberish]

I think Fred VanVleet, Derrick White and Norm Powell are the two best fits for Philly in terms of what players they can bring back. All of them are two-way players who can be good third options.

A while ago I tried a 3-team Simmons to the Kings deal with the Spurs as the 3rd team sending White. Spurs fans had no interest (as chinook just explained). Maybe Toronto as the 3rd team? If they're willing to make something of a rebuilding deal.

Sacramento trades: Mitchell, Barnes, Bagley for Simmons, Boucher
Toronto trades: Van Vleet, Boucher for Mitchell, Bagley
Philly trades Simmons for Van Vleet, Barnes

I had to swap Barnes in for Heild as Van Vleet makes just too much for a Hield/Van Vleet incoming package to work for Philly (they really don't have a smallish extra contract to send out, at least until into the season). Barnes is probably better for Philly anyway as they've got extra SG's already but get a bit thin at forward defensively dealing Simmons without getting a replacement forward. The fit isn't as good for Sac as they'd have to keep playing Hield as a SF which is a real problem for their defense. With the added value of Barnes over Hield I don't have the Kings adding an extra 1st.

Is Toronto willing to make the win-later move of Van Vleet for Mitchell? It feels like they want to at least start the season trying before making such a move, but they may consider it good enough value to make the deal before the season. I added the Bagley/Boucher part to add to the win-now vs win-later motives of Sac and Toronto, but it could be replaced by an EC filler going from Sac to Toronto (most likely Thompson).

[Ballerhogger]

Well, it seems we are back to the Timberwolves being the only realistic destination, then.

They’ve said they don’t want give up dlo , towns and ant … so …

Beasley + McDaniels + picks seems like a good package to me, tbh. Just a shot at something (OKC might not be the right team to send a starting small forward, thought about Anderson from MEM, as well).

Minnesota trades: Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, 2022 MIN 1st (1-10 protected, 1-4, unprotected), 2026 1st MIN (lottery protected, otherwise 2027 MIN 2nd)
Minnesota receives: Ben Simmons, [minimum player], [minimum player]
Minnesota gets a young star who fits perfectly w/Towns.

Philadelphia trades: Ben Simmons, [minimum player], [minimum player], 2022 PHI 1st (lottery protected, 2 2nds)
Philadelphia receives: Malik Beasley, DeJounte Murray, Lu Dort, 2023 DEN 1st (1-14 protected 3 years, then 2 2nds)
Philadelphia turns Simmons into a 20ppg shooting guard, an elite defender at point guard, and an elite wing defender who hits threes at just-below-average efficiency on high volume. I think they'd have a really good unit that can score well enough and really defend.

San Antonio trades: DeJounte Murray
San Antonio receives: Taurean Prince, 2022 PHI 1st (lottery protected, 2 2nds), 2026 1st MIN (lottery protected, otherwise 2027 MIN 2nd)
San Antonio moves White to starting point guard and opens up time for Vassell and Primo while returning two first.

Oklahoma City trades: Lu Dort, 2023 DEN 1st (1-14 protected 3 years, then 2 2nds)
Oklahoma City receives: Jaden McDaniels, 2022 MIN 1st (1-10 protected, 1-4 protected, unprotected)
Oklahoma City gambles on the Minnesota pick being better than the Denver pick, and with how many guards and wings they have, gets another prospect in the front court who can defend at an elite level and still hit open threes. This is the part I'm most unsure about.

This would be quite the trade if went down .

[Chinook]

I'm not willing to move Murray for picks that have a chance to be seconds so readily. I'm going to not talk about what the Spurs' FO might want (since I believe they basically have Murray and White flipped from what I have), but I'm only willing to move Murray for a tangible thing at this point. That basically means Simmons and the other "best-case scenario" targets like Sabonis, Siakam and Jamal Murray. I'd also be willing to move him for a similar player to him in the front court or a strong prospect.

So my first instinct would be for the Spurs to either buy Beasley or make up his value with their own players and take Simmons for themselves. Ultimately, I think they're in a stronger position to make a Simmons trade than Minnesota is. That said, one only team can get Simmons, and other teams might have to be willing to play smaller roles to make it work. That said, the Spurs still have to come out of the trade with some clear direction in mind, not just having picks. Committing to White as the top dog on the team is nice, but they aren't following that declaration up with getting him better-fitting pieces. There are too many interesting players flying around to other teams for the Spurs to end up with shaky firsts and one of the worst players in the NBA as their main takeaway.

Not to make the trade worse, but I wonder if the Kings would be interested in Prince for Hield. That gets White a scoring guard, and it saves the Kings a lot of money. But I'd probably want the Spurs to get some compensation for taking on that contract, and I don't know if there's something that would work for SAC. Maybe add in an Aminu/Bagley swap and get the Spurs that missing second?

[Tomjas]

I'm not willing to move Murray for picks that have a chance to be seconds so readily. I'm going to not talk about what the Spurs' FO might want (since I believe they basically have Murray and White flipped from what I have), but I'm only willing to move Murray for a tangible thing at this point. That basically means Simmons and the other "best-case scenario" targets like Sabonis, Siakam and Jamal Murray. I'd also be willing to move him for a similar player to him in the front court or a strong prospect.

So my first instinct would be for the Spurs to either buy Beasley or make up his value with their own players and take Simmons for themselves. Ultimately, I think they're in a stronger position to make a Simmons trade than Minnesota is. That said, one only team can get Simmons, and other teams might have to be willing to play smaller roles to make it work. That said, the Spurs still have to come out of the trade with some clear direction in mind, not just having picks. Committing to White as the top dog on the team is nice, but they aren't following that declaration up with getting him better-fitting pieces. There are too many interesting players flying around to other teams for the Spurs to end up with shaky firsts and one of the worst players in the NBA as their main takeaway.

Not to make the trade worse, but I wonder if the Kings would be interested in Prince for Hield. That gets White a scoring guard, and it saves the Kings a lot of money. But I'd probably want the Spurs to get some compensation for taking on that contract, and I don't know if there's something that would work for SAC. Maybe add in an Aminu/Bagley swap and get the Spurs that missing second?

Spurs have all their picks & cap space

They need quality players not more of the above

[Chinook]

I'm not willing to move Murray for picks that have a chance to be seconds so readily. I'm going to not talk about what the Spurs' FO might want (since I believe they basically have Murray and White flipped from what I have), but I'm only willing to move Murray for a tangible thing at this point. That basically means Simmons and the other "best-case scenario" targets like Sabonis, Siakam and Jamal Murray. I'd also be willing to move him for a similar player to him in the front court or a strong prospect.

So my first instinct would be for the Spurs to either buy Beasley or make up his value with their own players and take Simmons for themselves. Ultimately, I think they're in a stronger position to make a Simmons trade than Minnesota is. That said, one only team can get Simmons, and other teams might have to be willing to play smaller roles to make it work. That said, the Spurs still have to come out of the trade with some clear direction in mind, not just having picks. Committing to White as the top dog on the team is nice, but they aren't following that declaration up with getting him better-fitting pieces. There are too many interesting players flying around to other teams for the Spurs to end up with shaky firsts and one of the worst players in the NBA as their main takeaway.

Not to make the trade worse, but I wonder if the Kings would be interested in Prince for Hield. That gets White a scoring guard, and it saves the Kings a lot of money. But I'd probably want the Spurs to get some compensation for taking on that contract, and I don't know if there's something that would work for SAC. Maybe add in an Aminu/Bagley swap and get the Spurs that missing second?

Spurs have all their picks & cap space

They need quality players not more of the above

I'm not a huge fan of the deal either, but my point is that the Spurs aren't going to sell Murray for picks. They'd sell Murray with a plan to acquire pieces to help their roster. I assume that means in a Simmons trade. But if it's going to be a smaller trade, then it has to bring back a player or players who can fill holes next to White. Prince doesn't do that, but ignoring everything else that goes into evaluating trade value, Hield has a chance to. Collecting picks and getting White a running-mate guard feels better than getting picks and an awful forward whose best quality is the fact that he isn't signed beyond this season.

[babyjax13]

I'm not willing to move Murray for picks that have a chance to be seconds so readily. I'm going to not talk about what the Spurs' FO might want (since I believe they basically have Murray and White flipped from what I have), but I'm only willing to move Murray for a tangible thing at this point. That basically means Simmons and the other "best-case scenario" targets like Sabonis, Siakam and Jamal Murray. I'd also be willing to move him for a similar player to him in the front court or a strong prospect.

So my first instinct would be for the Spurs to either buy Beasley or make up his value with their own players and take Simmons for themselves. Ultimately, I think they're in a stronger position to make a Simmons trade than Minnesota is. That said, one only team can get Simmons, and other teams might have to be willing to play smaller roles to make it work. That said, the Spurs still have to come out of the trade with some clear direction in mind, not just having picks. Committing to White as the top dog on the team is nice, but they aren't following that declaration up with getting him better-fitting pieces. There are too many interesting players flying around to other teams for the Spurs to end up with shaky firsts and one of the worst players in the NBA as their main takeaway.

Not to make the trade worse, but I wonder if the Kings would be interested in Prince for Hield. That gets White a scoring guard, and it saves the Kings a lot of money. But I'd probably want the Spurs to get some compensation for taking on that contract, and I don't know if there's something that would work for SAC. Maybe add in an Aminu/Bagley swap and get the Spurs that missing second?

Spurs have all their picks & cap space

They need quality players not more of the above

I'm not a huge fan of the deal either, but my point is that the Spurs aren't going to sell Murray for picks. They'd sell Murray with a plan to acquire pieces to help their roster. I assume that means in a Simmons trade. But if it's going to be a smaller trade, then it has to bring back a player or players who can fill holes next to White. Prince doesn't do that, but ignoring everything else that goes into evaluating trade value, Hield has a chance to. Collecting picks and getting White a running-mate guard feels better than getting picks and an awful forward whose best quality is the fact that he isn't signed beyond this season.

What if OKC were cut out entirely and instead it was:

Minnesota trades: Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, 2022 MIN 1st (1-10 protected, 1-4, unprotected), 2026 1st MIN (lottery protected, otherwise 2027 MIN 2nd)
Minnesota receives: Ben Simmons, [minimum player], [minimum player]
Minnesota gets a young star who fits perfectly w/Towns.

Philadelphia trades: Ben Simmons, [minimum player], [minimum player]
Philadelphia receives: Malik Beasley, Derrick White
Philadelphia turns Simmons into a backcourt with two 18-20ppg players, one of whom is still an elite defender, and the other of which can spam threes off of kickouts from Embiid.

San Antonio trades: Derrick White
San Antonio receives: Jaden McDaniels, Taurean Prince, 2022 MIN 1st (1-10 protected, 1-4, unprotected), 2026 1st MIN (lottery protected, otherwise 2027 MIN 2nd)
San Antonio moves White to get a nice prospect in the front-court plus a likely mid-first and a future pick.

[DoItALL9]

Would Utah be interested in moving Conley, Gobert, and several picks to return Simmons & Porzingis?

Would Philly want Conley, several picks, and possibly some other piece from Utah that's not BB or DM?

Would Dallas be happy to receive The Stifle Tower in the swap?

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[uriah]

Lets see if a 3 team trade makes some sense :

Spurs trade Dejounte Murray + Lonnie Walker IV
for
Tyrese Maxey + Kyle Anderson + De'Anthony Melton + UTA'22 1st

76ers trade Ben Simmons + Tyrese Maxey
for
Dejonte Murray + Dillon Brooks + Tyus Jones + GSW'24 1st + LAL'22 1st + UTA'22 1st

Grizzlies trade Dillon Brooks + Kyle Anderson + De'Anthony Melton + Tyus Jones + UTA'22 1st + LAL'22 1st
for
Ben Simmons + Lonnie Walker IV

Why for Spurs ? They get good value for Dejounte Murray and Walker as Maxey and Melton are good young cheap players while getting vet help in former Spurs Kyle Anderson.

Why for 76ers ? They get 2 good young starters in Murray and Brooks, both of them very good defenders and capable scorers while adding some picks and a great backup point guard, none of these contracts are toxic and easily tradeable if needed in the future...

Why for Grizzlies ? They bet on Simmons + Ja + JJJ (+desmond bane) as their core moving forward, next move would be trading Steven Adams (as it would be too much of a shooting/FT liability to see him and simmons on the floor at the same time) for a good stretch PF and slide JJJ to the center position.

Please be kind

[Mykhyn]

Grizzlies give up nothing of value and end up with the 2 best players in the trade

Grizzlies get cut out so fast

[uriah]

Grizzlies give up nothing of value and end up with the 2 best players in the trade

Grizzlies get cut out so fast

What ? is Looney Walker any good ? I honestly used him as a SG throw in (his stats and progression does not show that hes any good but I might be mistaken, it can be replaced by any PG/SG to solidify MEM guard rotation)... And Memphis is giving up Brooks + Anderson + Melton + Jones + 3 frp for Simmons + Walker (or any other sg throw in), it seems like a big paycheck for Simmons to me...

Anyway, any other input ?

[gambitx777]

I can't get Simmons to Washington out of my head, I think that fit is just fantastic, but I don't know what a viable trade looks like because it HAS to be a three way. Philly isn't going to want Deni, or any of Washington's other prospects.

WAS trades: Deni Avdija, Rui Hachimura, Montrezl Harrell, Kyle Kuzma, picks as needed to balance
WAS receives: Ben Simmons

Team X trades: ???
Team X receives: Washington package

Philly trades: Ben Simmons
Philly receives: ???

You have people who look at his premadana antics

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Since you seem obsessed with the word "premadana," you should probably know the word is "primadonna". Unless "premadana" is actually a different word that means serial killer about to serve life in prison although even then I have Simmons with more value than Kuzma.

Technically speaking
"Prima Donna" is two words, not one. I spelled it the way I did on purpose, because while the original term does infact represent Ben Simmons, that's not what I was going for with the spelling that I used. It was an obscure reference so I'm not surprised it went above some heads.

But let's get into the " who would you rather have" Kuz or Simmons. They are both around the same age. Simmons is obviously a better defender but Kuz isn't a bad defender, I'd say somewhere around average and definitely not a aweful. Kuz has a far better shot, as in it's not broken. His mentality is in a far better place than Ben, I'd event just flat out take Kuz offensively over Ben in my opinion. Kuz is far cheaper and more than likely will stop lbenon his next deal. So I won't argue Kuz is a "better player" but I'll keep Kuz over Simmons on the simple premise that he's less broken than Ben. I'll take a mint condition mustang over a Lambo that's been polished up after being wrecked a few times.

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[babyjax13]

Would Utah be interested in moving Conley, Gobert, and several picks to return Simmons & Porzingis?

Would Philly want Conley, several picks, and possibly some other piece from Utah that's not BB or DM?

Would Dallas be happy to receive The Stifle Tower in the swap?

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Not at all interested. Conley > Kristaps, Gobert > Simmons, picks > no picks

[zimpy27]

Spurs give Murray, Lonnie, Vassell, Poeltl, Aminu
Spurs get Simmons, Dragic
Dragic, White, Keldon, Simmons, Collins -- Forbes, Primo, McDermott, Thad, Landale

Raptors give Boucher, Dragic
Raptors get Lonnie, Poeltl, Aminu
FVV, Trent, OG, Siakam, Poeltl -- Flynn, Lonnie, Barnes, Achiuwa, Birch

Sixers give Simmons
Sixers Murray, Vassell, Boucher
Murray, Curry, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Vassell, Boucher, Drummond -- Springer, Joe, Korkmaz, Niang, Reed

I really like this Sixers bench. Very deep team.

Maybe Vassell and Curry go to a third team that provides.a consolidation piece.

[HartfordWhalers]

I think someone should point out that all these Kings trades that include Mitchell don't fit into the time frame of trading Simmons before the season starts.

You have to wait a few months before you can trade your newly signed rookies.

1st round rookies actually can be traded just 30 days after signing. It is what happened with Wiggins for instance.

Uhmm. Kings signed Davion Mitchell Aug 5

So he can be traded now already.

[GTR11]

This is who blinks first between Portland and Philly. I like Blazers here by a mile. Clutch will be in Ben's ear at all times and putting pressure on Morey.

Even if Blazers will get Ben for CJ trade done, they still going to need that second reliable scorer/playmaker. SGA is there for takes.

Sixers aren’t going to blink. While CJ is a nice player. And offers secondary iso scorer.

He’s gonna to be hunted down in the playoffs. The Sixers always have their weak defenders who can score but don’t play defense hunted down

JJ reddick was routinely attacked. Even Seth Curry who was arguably the Sixers second best player vs hawks got hunted down by hawks.

Playoffs expose players weakness.

As for kings/Timberwolves. There is no iso scorer they are offering or win now pieces. Anyone on the kings has inflated stats cause they simply don’t play defense as a team well. If Simmons wanted to score and didn’t have mental breakdown. If he took 19-20 shots a game like fox. He would score 25/8/8 on the kings. That’s not even a fantasy. That’s just what would happen. Just the way today’s nba games work on transition and regular season. Would people think more highly of Simmons if he put up 25 points on 19 shots like fox? Even if he can’t shoot. Fox isn’t a good shooter either. He can break down a defense in half court. He can be streaky. He’s a willing shooter. But a lot of his points are also in transition. And fox doesn’t play defense.

I welcome this scenario . Can't wait for Kardashian 6's version to unfold, I here for it.

Pass that good stuff you smoking.