2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Ghost of Kleine]

Hoops Rumors (@HoopsRumors) Tweeted:
Cavaliers Waive Tre Scott https://t.co/n4iBVDbab2 https://t.co/dwAQhoyEmj

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6'8. With a long wingspan. High character a really solid defender and apparently a voracious rebounder. Should we have any interest in bringing him in on a training camp deal or the other two way? Perhaps he could be a really cheap alternative to Jared Vanderbilt for us as a high energy disruptive defender with elite rebounding potential!

https://gobearcats.com/news/2020/3/11/mens-basketball-scott-claims-three-awards-from-aac-coaches.aspx

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[bwgood77]

Hoops Rumors (@HoopsRumors) Tweeted:
Cavaliers Waive Tre Scott https://t.co/n4iBVDbab2 https://t.co/dwAQhoyEmj

Read on Twitter

?s=20

6'8. With a long wingspan. High character a really solid defender and apparently a voracious rebounder. Should we have any interest in bringing him in on a training camp deal or the other two way? Perhaps he could be a really cheap alternative to Jared Vanderbilt for us as a high energy disruptive defender with elite rebounding potential!

https://gobearcats.com/news/2020/3/11/mens-basketball-scott-claims-three-awards-from-aac-coaches.aspx

Watch on YouTube

When you can pick up the Cavs scraps you gotta do it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Hoops Rumors (@HoopsRumors) Tweeted:
Cavaliers Waive Tre Scott https://t.co/n4iBVDbab2 https://t.co/dwAQhoyEmj

Read on Twitter

?s=20

6'8. With a long wingspan. High character a really solid defender and apparently a voracious rebounder. Should we have any interest in bringing him in on a training camp deal or the other two way? Perhaps he could be a really cheap alternative to Jared Vanderbilt for us as a high energy disruptive defender with elite rebounding potential!

https://gobearcats.com/news/2020/3/11/mens-basketball-scott-claims-three-awards-from-aac-coaches.aspx

Watch on YouTube

When you can pick up the Cavs scraps you gotta do it.

Lol! Good one!

Honestly though, I don't really care what teams these two way training camp players came from nor if they're cut by other teams for whatever reasons, As I'm only talking about a two way or training camp consideration. Especially IF they have a solid/ versatile complimentary skillset that might be able to benefit us whether in practice or otherwise over time

I mean at the worst why not bring him in to training camp to see what he's got, Or to push our rotation players in practice? Perhaps even on an exhibit 10? It just seems like a small risk at best to explore further depth beyond our last open roster spot. And if not, no big deal. Apparently he was the ACC defensive player of the year, Most improved player, And won the sportsmanship award. He seems to kind of fit Jones archetype for high character versatile players. He's not quite as athletic or long as Vanderbilt, But he does seem to be high motor, high character and a relatively smart player with potential elite rebounding ability ( if you look at his stats.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tre-scott-1.html

But unlike Vanderbilt, he does have a modicum of perimeter scoring ability. Although he does need to really improve his free throw shooting. But definitely wouldn't be bad for a training camp option?

[bwgood77]

Honestly though, I don't really care what teams these two way training camp players came from nor if they're cut by other teams for whatever reasons, As I'm only talking about a two way or training camp consideration. Especially IF they have a solid/ versatile complimentary skillset that might be able to benefit us whether in practice or otherwise over time

I mean at the worst why not bring him in to training camp to see what he's got, Or to push our rotation players in practice? Perhaps even on an exhibit 10? It just seems like a small risk at best to explore further depth beyond our last open roster spot. And if not, no big deal. Apparently he was the ACC defensive player of the year, Most improved player, And won the sportsmanship award. He seems to kind of fit Jones archetype for high character versatile players. He's not quite as athletic or long as Vanderbilt, But he does seem to be high motor, high character and a relatively smart player with potential elite rebounding ability ( if you look at his stats.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tre-scott-1.html

But unlike Vanderbilt, he does have a modicum of perimeter scoring ability. Although he does need to really improve his free throw shooting. But definitely wouldn't be bad for a training camp option?

I was joking. I really don't know anything about him. I'm not opposed to bringing anyone in camp really. If you think he's really good, perhaps we should. Then again, if we brought in everyone you thought was really good we'd have hundreds of guys show up for training camp....KIDDING....

I'm not too concerned over the last spot.

I think we filled our two major holes with Shamet and McGee. The Saric loss hurts a lot and he had a few good streaks in him but also some bad ones.

Losing Saric as a backup hurts. I think Frank is good on offense..maybe just as good but Saric is a little better defender despite not being able to jump. But McGee should help a lot more with rim protection and rebounding when Ayton sits.

We really shouldn't have too many minutes where Ayton or McGee are not playing and then I think Jae, Cam and Mikal should all get an avg of 30 minutes, leaving like an average of 6 minutes for Nader or Frank....or maybe even sliding up Book to 3 now that he defends better and we have Shamet.

Shamet plugs that gap of having to play one of Moore, Galloway or Carter.

Then you have Payton who I don't care much for, but at least he can play PG in an emergency, still even better than those 3 I just named...as can Shamet, so we are much more set at ball handling, backup 2 and backup 5, by far our biggest issues.

I do wish they had added Alize Johnson, Patterson or Vanderbilt, but maybe someone gets cut still on deep good teams so they are waiting, given that more players can be carried through training camp.

No reason to rush.

Same with the other two way.

I'm a little more eager to see the extensions.

[Barkley6]

Smith and Saric for Young is a done deal for me. Don’t care about the 1st or second rounder. We are getting off of two obligated deals and gaining the best player. This big man depth weakness is not to be trifled with. Roll the dice on Smith improving ??? Not this yr. We only have 2+ to go in this Paulish window… we are still a young team, with possibility of retaining 1-11 next yr, if Shamet and Young fit

Get it done before Love gets his buy out…

just say no to the Plod Squad.

Exactly this. Young is still a high caliber defender and is incredibly switchable. There are more than enough minutes for a guy with his skillset as Torrey Craig proved last season. McGee is only going to play about 15 a night as the backup 5. Which means you've got plenty of minutes left over for Young as another big. He's literally going to slot into Craig's role, but is a BETTER player.

In terms of what we are giving up, we need to be in win now mode. I like Saric a lot, but he can't help us this year. Smith is a huge unknown as well, and while he might turn into an NBA starter one day, I feel like that day will be after Chris Paul retires. Adding Young gives us by far the deepest 1-13 in the entire league. 10 of those 13 guys could start for a lot of teams in the league.

The way I think about it is this: Who is going to help more against guys like Anthony Davis, LeBron, PG13, Durant, Luka and Giannis? Jalen Smith or Thad Young?

If you're being honest your answer is Thad Young.

[Barkley6]

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Not sure what league rule he's referencing. Keeps moving the possibility of this back and back. I'm sure by training camp it'll be likely that it's a mid year trade so we can explore all options.

If this trade goes through -- I see it being made for two reasons
1) this year, short term, Young probably plays more valuable minutes than Smith and without Saric, the team doesn't want to waste a year of Booker, CP3, Ayton, Bridges, the Cams plus Shamet is only signed for one more year

2) with the possible extensions of Bridges and DA - this clears about 14m of cap space in 2022/23 that is on the books today. And this helps with the lux tax apron. So, it does allow the Suns a bit of flexibility next summer. Meaning they can sign a player for 5m that might keep them under the Apron.

Doing my best imitation of DavidIVPoint play - if the Suns 1st round pick conveys to OKC and the Suns move Saric & Smith now, I think they would be just over 5m under the Lux Tax Apron.

The league rule being referenced here could be the 60 day waiting period before including a recently acquired player in a trade other than a straight swap. Young was officially acquired by San Antonio on August 11, which would mean he couldn't be traded until October 10th. Not sure if there are ways around that rule that perhaps are being discussed with the league, but that seems to me to be the most likely situation in terms of a rule that would prevent the trade.

I was thinking a little about this being a 2 for 1 trade and wondering if Phoenix would really want to sign 2 FAs from who is left, so now I'm thinking maybe it ends up being a 2 for 2 trade with us taking a second player back from SAS. Not sure who it would be, but could be something to keep an eye on.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Honestly though, I don't really care what teams these two way training camp players came from nor if they're cut by other teams for whatever reasons, As I'm only talking about a two way or training camp consideration. Especially IF they have a solid/ versatile complimentary skillset that might be able to benefit us whether in practice or otherwise over time

I mean at the worst why not bring him in to training camp to see what he's got, Or to push our rotation players in practice? Perhaps even on an exhibit 10? It just seems like a small risk at best to explore further depth beyond our last open roster spot. And if not, no big deal. Apparently he was the ACC defensive player of the year, Most improved player, And won the sportsmanship award. He seems to kind of fit Jones archetype for high character versatile players. He's not quite as athletic or long as Vanderbilt, But he does seem to be high motor, high character and a relatively smart player with potential elite rebounding ability ( if you look at his stats.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tre-scott-1.html

But unlike Vanderbilt, he does have a modicum of perimeter scoring ability. Although he does need to really improve his free throw shooting. But definitely wouldn't be bad for a training camp option?

I was joking. I really don't know anything about him. I'm not opposed to bringing anyone in camp really. If you think he's really good, perhaps we should. Then again, if we brought in everyone you thought was really good we'd have hundreds of guys show up for training cam....KIDDING....

I'm not too concerned over the last spot.

I think we filled our two major holes with Shamet and McGee. The Saric loss hurts a lot and he had a few good streaks in him but also some bad ones.

Losing Saric as a backup hurts. I think Frank is good on offense..maybe just as good but Saric is a little better defender despite not being able to jump. But McGee should help a lot more with rim protection and rebounding when Ayton sits.

We really shouldn't have too many minutes where Ayton or McGee are not playing and then I think Jae, Cam and Mikal should all get an avg of 30 minutes, leaving like an average of 6 minutes for Nader or Frank....or maybe even sliding up Book to 3 now that he defends better and we have Shamet.

Shamet plugs that gap of having to play one of Moore, Galloway or Carter.

Then you have Payton who I don't care much for, but at least he can play PG in an emergency, still even better than those 3 I just named...as can Shamet, so we are much more set at ball handling, backup 2 and backup 5, by far our biggest issues.

I do wish they had added Alize Johnson, Patterson or Vanderbilt, but maybe someone gets cut still on deep good teams so they are waiting, given that more players can be carried through training camp.

No reason to rush.

Same with the other two way.

I'm a little more eager to see the extensions.

Fair point. And I apologize if I seem a bit salty at times or anxious. There's just a lot of fluidity/ cryptic uncertainty to our situation right now, And many still yet undetermined factors that are concerning regarding our stability/ future outlook. Not that I or anyone else here really has any say in things realistically anyways! But as you care for your lifelong teams' success/ longterm viability, it does weigh heavy at times.

Perhaps I'm not fully over us giving away for straight games in the finals and am anxious/ overexcited about possibilities for adding depth and will have to focus more on tempering expectations. Anyways, I do think we lack that real edgy/ tough energizer that all the great ( championship teams) seemingly have that's gets their team fired up when things get complacent or passive and we find ourselves lacking that sense of urgency. Again, apologies to everyone for being overzealous at times with my interest in such a broad variety of potential considerations.

I just emphatically want us to find that energizing x-factor for our team that will give us that boost and moxy when we need it most so that we can close the deal on this whole championship premise and finally get that metaphorical monkey off our backs of being the winningest franchise without a championship. Our franchise does deserve it's due respect amongst the rest of the league. Yet everyone always makes these absurd excuses to ridicule our team's success. I just feel like getting a championship is what it'll take to finally recieve that vindication. And it would be nice to finally shut alot of these morons up ( if possible).

By the way, I do agree with you on Alize, I realize that he'd ( along with my many suggestions) would only be playing a minimized role. But even so, There are instances wherein such players have come out if nowhere as energizing catalysts that fired up their teams at times to wins when they were down/ out of energy. That's all I'm really looking for! That edgy, energizing x factor, like we had with Oubre ( at times) that could fire us up when needed?

FWIW, I saw that Scott was a high character guy who had displayed elite rebounding potential with a modicum of offensive foundation to build upon. But more importantly displayed high character traits as well which seemed to fit with our culture. So I thought we could do worse on a two way ( could be waived at any time for another player or vet if he's not a contributor), a training camp deal, or an exhibit 10. Did anyone yet look at his accolades, read the article on him, or see his project able stats?
(Summary):
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/6717246002

- 2019-20 Season (R-Senior): Started all 30 games, averaging 11.4 points, 10.5 rebounds 2.2 assists, 1.5 steals and 0.8 blocks in 33.8 minutes
-Named AAC’s Defensive Player of the Year.
- AAC’s Most Improved Player.
- AAC’s Sportsmanship Award winner.
- Senior CLASS Award candidate.
- Ranked among nation’s leaders in defensive rebounds per game (eighth at 7.77).
- Rebounds per game (15th at 10.5).
- Total rebounds (24th at 316).
- Double-doubles (33rd at 13).
- Ranked among league leaders in AAC games in rebounds (first at 11.6).
- Defensive rebounds (first at 8.9).
- Field goal percentage (third at .511).
- Minutes played (third at 35.6).
- Steals (tied for fourth at 1.8).
- Offensive rebounds (tied for fifth at 2.7).
- Blocks (ninth at 0.9).
- Averaged 10.5 rebounds, the highest UC average since Pat Cummings (11.3 rebounds in 1978-79).
- Became first UC player since Dwight Jones (16.6 points and 10.1 rebounds in 1982-83) to average a double-double for a season.
- Recorded 13 double-doubles, most by a Bearcat since Gary Clark (14 in 2017-18).
- Posted four 20-point efforts over the last eight games of the season, averaging 17.1 points and 13.8 rebounds while shooting 51.0 percent (53 of 104) from the floor during the stretch.
- Tallied 22 points and a career-high 21 rebounds against UCF (2/19), marking the first 20 point-20 rebound performance by a Bearcat since Kenyon Martin (24 points and 23 rebounds against DePaul [2/ 21/1998]).
- Registered a career-high 25 points and 19 rebounds while shooting 61.5 percent (8 of 13) from the floor with a trio of 3-pointers in an overtime win against Memphis (2/13).
- Produced a career-high 25 points with 13 rebounds in an overtime loss at UConn (2/9).
- Tallied 21 points with 11 rebounds while shooting 64.3 percent (9 of 14) from the field at USF (3/3).
- Handed out a career-high eight assists at Tulane (1/4).
- Led UC in rebounds in 23 games.
-Scored in double figures in 17 contests.
- Pulled down 10 or more rebounds in 19 games.

So I think at the very least, the potential as an additional bench glue guy could be there? And the risk would obviously be so minimal for us to explore his potential as a two way/ exhibit 10/ or training camp option. I look at these individual prospects skillsets and versatility to gauge their potential contributory impact/ fit for our team's depth. Whether or not our front office identifies or feels confident that they can extract that potential is of course entirely up to them and how they lense things.

[matt131]

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Where would y'all rank Cameron Johnson in a redraft?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Where would y'all rank Cameron Johnson in a redraft?

I'd honestly probably put him top 6 ( from this current list) and maybe ahead of Herro too! as it currently stands . But I do think ( not trying to exaggerate here guys)! See his Apex outcome being something along the lines of a bigger Klay Thompson!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Thoughts on this defensive lineup premise:
Valley of the Suns (@ValleyoftheSuns) Tweeted:
Opposing teams will want to run and hide if the @Suns ever decide to roll with this lockdown lineup next year. https://t.co/P8Ir9sLOce

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Phoenix Suns Lockdown Defense Lineup for 2021-22
- PG: Chris Paul
- SG: Mikal Bridges
- SF: Jae Crowder
- PF: Cameron Johnson
- C:  Deandre Ayton
* Not sure aside from situational matchups when Booker sits? As you'd prefer not to take Booker out of the starting lineup of course?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Xin Varlock (@XinNBA) Tweeted:
@scooperhoops https://t.co/f5RoeFBjk4

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[spanishninja]

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Where would y'all rank Cameron Johnson in a redraft?

haha, looks like we didn't "reach" for Cam after all. if anything we took him too late!

[bwgood77]

Xin Varlock (@XinNBA) Tweeted:
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scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

[Saberestar]

Xin Varlock (@XinNBA) Tweeted:
@scooperhoops https://t.co/f5RoeFBjk4

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scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

I am not THAT high about Mikal because the gap between his current role and a secondary scoring option is too big and not too many players are successful doing that transition.

For one Jerami Grant there are a bunch of Trevor Arizas.

I remember when Ariza went to the Rockets after winning the championship with the Lakers and they gave him a much bigger role on offense. Yeah, he averaged 15 points per game that season but his efficiency was terrible and it was obvious that being a primary option on offense wasn't on his DNA.

Mikal has played the same role since his first year in college and he is already 25 years old. He is very good doing what he does for us and I would be happy with him playing the same role on the Suns for the next decade.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Xin Varlock (@XinNBA) Tweeted:
@scooperhoops https://t.co/f5RoeFBjk4

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scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year.

This is my concern towards Bridges percieved market value, As with Paul ( I realize his contract is declining in yr 3 ), Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Cam at probably around 16-18 million range ( my anticipated market range for him * If he continues to show progress this season) and then trying to fill out the rest of the roster. IF SAVER Is truly willing to pay the luxury tax in 23, Then everything should be stable and doable. But his inclination so far to not yet secure Ayton/ Bridges along with the proposed 15 million salary dump proposal for Thad Young, Does make me curious as to the extent of his full commitment towards keeping our core together.

All in all I'm probably worried over nothing! But what if these other teams absent of stars in a underwhelming 22' free agency do consider throwing a max offer in the 25-29 million range? Either we pay that ( significantly hampering imminent future roster moves, Or do we seek a trade at a slightly diminished return? And how would this affect team chemistry, Should we lose him?

I do think that our front office is smart and absolutely planned around this contingency though with the way they specifically structured Paul's contract. But it's still slightly concerning to me as to the potential ripple effects of either scenario playing out?

[bwgood77]

Xin Varlock (@XinNBA) Tweeted:
@scooperhoops https://t.co/f5RoeFBjk4

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scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

I am not THAT high about Mikal because the gap between his current role and a secondary scoring option is too big and not too many players are successful doing that transition.

For one Jerami Grant there are a bunch of Trevor Arizas.

I remember when Ariza went to the Rockets after winning the championship with the Lakers and they gave him a much bigger role on offense. Yeah, he averaged 15 points per game that season but his efficiency was terrible and it was obvious that being a primary option on offense wasn't on his DNA.

Mikal has played the same role since his first year in college and he is already 25 years old. He is very good doing what he does for us and I would be happy with him playing the same role on the Suns for the next decade.

Mikal was the second option (many might say first) on that Villanova championship team...and that had solid NBA players on it. He even shot a higher % from 3 in his last year, at like 43.5%.

I think he may be a more willing scorer than Ayton, for example, on creating, etc. The thing is, with Booker, Paul, Ayton, being behind Oubre last year, etc, he just hasn't gotten too much opportunity. The difference between guys like Grant and Ariza are elite efficiency and a much higher offensive bbiq.

[bwgood77]

Xin Varlock (@XinNBA) Tweeted:
@scooperhoops https://t.co/f5RoeFBjk4

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scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year.

This is my concern towards Bridges percieved market value, As with Paul ( I realize his contract is declining in yr 3 ), Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Cam at probably around 16-18 million range ( my anticipated market range for him * If he continues to show progress this season) and then trying to fill out the rest of the roster. IF SAVER Is truly willing to pay the luxury tax in 23, Then everything should be stable and doable. But his inclination so far to not yet secure Ayton/ Bridges along with the proposed 15 million salary dump proposal for Thad Young, Does make me curious as to the extent of his full commitment towards keeping our core together.

All in all I'm probably worried over nothing! But what if these other teams absent of stars in a underwhelming 22' free agency do consider throwing a max offer in the 25-29 million range? Either we pay that ( significantly hampering imminent future roster moves, Or do we seek a trade at a slightly diminished return? And how would this affect team chemistry, Should we lose him?

I do think that our front office is smart and absolutely planned around this contingency though with the way they specifically structured Paul's contract. But it's still slightly concerning to me as to the potential ripple effects of either scenario playing out?

I don't really want to play the "what if" game unless he does not get the extension. If he does, it's moot. I don't think luxury tax will be a big issue outside of next year, the first year the new contracts for Ayton and Bridges kick in. But the next year, there is no Jae, no Saric (assuming we keep him), and if we did trade for Thad, no Smith (and probably no Thad as he would get more money elsewhere next summer).

Paul is also VERY likely gone after 2 years and has a $15 million cap hit to help absorb a Cam 2nd contract amount.

Sarver may be worried about luxury tax, and it is dumb to get too far into it or have repeater years, but he also has the gambling in the arena and will likely have full arenas for the first time in awhile..as well as playoff revenue, etc...this is a HUGE difference in revenue. He also got the taste of being a contender after being one of the worst teams for the better part of a decade.

Not sure if people realize, but if you let Mikal walk due to another offer, it's not like we suddenly have that much money to spend elsewhere...we would still be far enough over the cap that it might only drop us to like $10-15 million under the cap with no MLE, so it's like losing an elite starter for almost nothing. Now you could do a S&T but you very rarely get too much back in that circumstance, and if you were willing to take a big salary back I doubt you are getting nearly the caliber of player. There could be a pick involved, but not sure we are concerned with those right now.

[lilfishi22]

Smith and Saric for Young is a done deal for me. Don’t care about the 1st or second rounder. We are getting off of two obligated deals and gaining the best player. This big man depth weakness is not to be trifled with. Roll the dice on Smith improving ??? Not this yr. We only have 2+ to go in this Paulish window… we are still a young team, with possibility of retaining 1-11 next yr, if Shamet and Young fit

Get it done before Love gets his buy out…

just say no to the Plod Squad.

Exactly this. Young is still a high caliber defender and is incredibly switchable. There are more than enough minutes for a guy with his skillset as Torrey Craig proved last season. McGee is only going to play about 15 a night as the backup 5. Which means you've got plenty of minutes left over for Young as another big. He's literally going to slot into Craig's role, but is a BETTER player.

In terms of what we are giving up, we need to be in win now mode. I like Saric a lot, but he can't help us this year. Smith is a huge unknown as well, and while he might turn into an NBA starter one day, I feel like that day will be after Chris Paul retires. Adding Young gives us by far the deepest 1-13 in the entire league. 10 of those 13 guys could start for a lot of teams in the league.

The way I think about it is this: Who is going to help more against guys like Anthony Davis, LeBron, PG13, Durant, Luka and Giannis? Jalen Smith or Thad Young?

If you're being honest your answer is Thad Young.

Let's just put it this way, if the Lakers, Nets or some other elite contender was in our position, they'd move Smith in a heartbeat if it means bringing in a vet that you could reasonably expect to help in the playoffs.

We're trying to play this game where we're straddling the fence between trying to avoid giving up "key" future pieces while trying to win a championship. It's really damn hard to do just the latter let alone trying to win AND build for the future. I think every player should be assessed on a case by case basis but Smith just *can't* be the dealbreaker here

[lilfishi22]

scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

I am not THAT high about Mikal because the gap between his current role and a secondary scoring option is too big and not too many players are successful doing that transition.

For one Jerami Grant there are a bunch of Trevor Arizas.

I remember when Ariza went to the Rockets after winning the championship with the Lakers and they gave him a much bigger role on offense. Yeah, he averaged 15 points per game that season but his efficiency was terrible and it was obvious that being a primary option on offense wasn't on his DNA.

Mikal has played the same role since his first year in college and he is already 25 years old. He is very good doing what he does for us and I would be happy with him playing the same role on the Suns for the next decade.

Mikal was the second option (many might say first) on that Villanova championship team...and that had solid NBA players on it. He even shot a higher % from 3 in his last year, at like 43.5%.

I think he may be a more willing scorer than Ayton, for example, on creating, etc. The thing is, with Booker, Paul, Ayton, being behind Oubre last year, etc, he just hasn't gotten too much opportunity. The difference between guys like Grant and Ariza are elite efficiency and a much higher offensive bbiq.

Just being a perimeter guy and having ball handling/shot creation abilities that is ahead of Ayton's development, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he could peak as our #2 option. I've never thought that about him during his first couple of seasons in the league but just based on the flashes I've seen over the past season and in the playoffs, he should continue his development on that end of the court and could be a 18-20ppg scorer on above average efficiency. Not to say Ayton couldn't catch up and end up being a low 20ppg scorer and establishing himself as the #2 guy.

Right now he's the 4th leading scorer on our team while being 2nd last on the entire team on usage rate. He's also in the 88% percentile in the NBA on isolation scoring based on his 1.09pts per possession. The guy CAN do a lot more but doesn't have the opportunity currently. I think I mentioned it in another post a month or so ago but I expect Mikal to take on a slightly bigger offensive role with his shot creation this season while I expect CP3's offensive output to decrease (by design).

[lilfishi22]

scooper with good stuff, as always, as well as Vigil

I always thought he should get more looks, given his elite efficiency, but some of those #s are crazy.. I knew he was near the top in percentile of rim finishing, and among the best 3 pt shooters, but I am pretty shocked he is at 96% in pull up 3pt % and 90% in iso. There has been mention of most of his baskets being assisted, but those last two #s show that me talking about him being more of an offensive option comparing him to other stars might not be misguided.....if people took the list of people in that 4% ahead of him in pullup 3pt% I'm sure it would be elite company.

And then people mention creating his own shot, which he's done, and when he does more the % may drop, but there is a huge difference in people acting as if he can't do it and him being a 90th percentile iso guy.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year. Of course over half said in the $21-$25 range, but many seem to think he's worth a max or near it.

It's kind of odd because MOST opposing team fans under rate and talk down another team's players, but it seems like many fans of other teams are higher on Mikal than many of our own.

Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year.

This is my concern towards Bridges percieved market value, As with Paul ( I realize his contract is declining in yr 3 ), Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Cam at probably around 16-18 million range ( my anticipated market range for him * If he continues to show progress this season) and then trying to fill out the rest of the roster. IF SAVER Is truly willing to pay the luxury tax in 23, Then everything should be stable and doable. But his inclination so far to not yet secure Ayton/ Bridges along with the proposed 15 million salary dump proposal for Thad Young, Does make me curious as to the extent of his full commitment towards keeping our core together.

All in all I'm probably worried over nothing! But what if these other teams absent of stars in a underwhelming 22' free agency do consider throwing a max offer in the 25-29 million range? Either we pay that ( significantly hampering imminent future roster moves, Or do we seek a trade at a slightly diminished return? And how would this affect team chemistry, Should we lose him?

I do think that our front office is smart and absolutely planned around this contingency though with the way they specifically structured Paul's contract. But it's still slightly concerning to me as to the potential ripple effects of either scenario playing out?

I don't really want to play the "what if" game unless he does not get the extension. If he does, it's moot. I don't think luxury tax will be a big issue outside of next year, the first year the new contracts for Ayton and Bridges kick in. But the next year, there is no Jae, no Saric (assuming we keep him), and if we did trade for Thad, no Smith (and probably no Thad as he would get more money elsewhere next summer).

Paul is also VERY likely gone after 2 years and has a $15 million cap hit to help absorb a Cam 2nd contract amount.

Sarver may be worried about luxury tax, and it is dumb to get too far into it or have repeater years, but he also has the gambling in the arena and will likely have full arenas for the first time in awhile..as well as playoff revenue, etc...this is a HUGE difference in revenue. He also got the taste of being a contender after being one of the worst teams for the better part of a decade.

Not sure if people realize, but if you let Mikal walk due to another offer, it's not like we suddenly have that much money to spend elsewhere...we would still be far enough over the cap that it might only drop us to like $10-15 million under the cap with no MLE, so it's like losing an elite starter for almost nothing. Now you could do a S&T but you very rarely get too much back in that circumstance, and if you were willing to take a big salary back I doubt you are getting nearly the caliber of player. There could be a pick involved, but not sure we are concerned with those right now.

+1

I don't see tax being as big of an issue as some make it out to be. During the SSOL days, Sarver had just purchased the Suns and pouring millions and millions following the purchase just to fund the roster and operations. It's been well over a decade since and he's more than recouped the value and operational expenses he put into running that SSOL team and I think we're well positioned with the added revenue sources you've mentioned to go into the tax for a couple of seasons if we continue to be an elite contender.