Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[Rastas]

like dude is really out here caping for Ben's playoff performance?

he shot 31% from the FT line.

Didn't take a shot in MULTIPLE 4th quarters.

Does Ben/Klutch pay you or something?

[Iverson Armband]

I don't understand how the Ben bois constantly find new ways to cape for their guy but it is rather impressive.

The strawmen and goal post moving is amazing.

Ben is a good player that can help a team win games.

Ben has hit a wall in each of his playoff runs.

Ben brings things to the table that this team will miss and find hard to fully replace.

Ben is the last move we can make.

Ben is such a weird player that making a move is hard because the other team needs to be specifically built for him and he has not proven to be good enough to justify it.

This isn't a situation in which Ben either sucks or he is the greatest thing ever. Its somewhere in the middle and it is fluid. However the fact is that due to previous mistakes, moving off Ben is the only major move to make. So regardless if you think he's great or not, thats the bottom line. Thus you canvas the league for his value and hope someone bites and gives up all you can get and go from there. Its not an inditement on Ben persay but rather the reality of the situation. Ben however has not exactly made that as hard of a choice as you'd think it should be. Dude has flamed out in every single playoff. That is the reality of the situation. B-but Embiid had bad games too tho...yeah he has but he also often went down swinging. Ben didn't even try. Yeah some dick heads would still be mad but if Ben came out in game 7 and shot like hot ass, forced the issue, missed FTs and at least attempted to fail..that would be better than him legitamately running away from the ball and then having the gall to go...but my assists tho and Trae didn't shoot that well doe. Embiid for all of his issues...never blames his injuries or fitness..or points to his points in a loss. Even after his big "throw Ben under the bus" moment, he went on to say he has to be better and his turnovers were also a reason we loss. Thats why when Embiid fails, people aren't as harsh on him. So next goal post...'bu-but Tobias tho". Yeah he was bad but I don't think anyone is caping for Tobias. He is what he is. He's not the guy. We all know that but Elton paaaaaid him so we are stuck with him. AND again to his credit, prior to him reverting to his worst qualities, he put in work this whole season and at least showed some attempts at being better at some of those flaws.... Ben has not. Ben doesn't even take those **** turn around shots any more. He doesn't even take his messed up hook shots. He regressed. And why is that? We have more shooters than ever before. He is still the main ball handler. You can attempt to blame Biid but that wasn't a problem in years prior.

Like yall need to hold your boy to the fire occasionally. Embiid was a fat POS in years prior. Dude also needs to stop trying to be superman. He has his issues. But I know despite those flaws (and lets be real everyone has flaws and will always have them) we all know he is going to try his hardest...often to a fault out there. Which makes those short comings less annoying. I too worry about building around a big oaf center in todays NBA but unlike Okafor or say Drummond, Embiid gives a **** and will at the very least make an attempt.

I don't want to just give Ben away. I am tired as **** of these conversations and while it would be great to purge this board of all of the dudes who worship him...that would just be hurting the team longterm. Ben is a good NBA player. He can be better. I just don't know if he will do it here and at this stage I don't know if he even has the self awareness to improve. Which is exactly why you look to see what you can get for him


AGain this isn't rocket science.

Want the stats and metrics again for Ben's playoff games?

11.9 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 8.8 apg, 1.3 stl. 0.8 blk on .621 fg%.

Box plus minus 4.3. Win share 1.4.

His best playoff stats/metrics yet.

If you think it's Ben's job to score in the playoffs, when that wasn't his job all year in the RS, time to get outraged over something else.

Oh wait, so your new angle is that the team WANTS him to be a 12ppg player?

Sweet ol Ben, just following orders. What a darling…

All Doc did was coddle him and try to protect his poor, precious fragile wittle fweelings all season long. And how did your boy choose to repay him? By totally screwing him when it mattered most.

[mjkvol]

Shouldn't have been trying to make him into a 3 point shooter, should have just been encouraging his aggressiveness, mid-range game and FT shooting this whole time. It was the poor FT shooting that marred him this last playoffs.

Hopefully wherever he goes next they just focus on improving on what he was doing out of college.

Been saying this all along. This ridiculous obsession with three pointers, Brown's public demands of shot quotas, all of it missed the real point, which as you said should have been about creating an aggressive mindset. Simply becoming a solid free throw shooter (70+%), developing a couple pet post moves and maybe a floater, and just learning to finish around the rim combined with his defense and passing would have made him a top 10 player in the sport.

This is all moot at this point, of course, but the thoughts of what could have been will always be frustrating.

Wait, you don’t think he was asked to do those things? C’mon man.

I specifically remember Brown saying he wanted Ben to focus on all of what you mentioned. It’s nobodies fault but Ben’s for where he is now.

If I gave the impression that it was the fault of anyone but Simmons himself, let me correct that now. A player is only going to be as good as the work he puts in, and by surrounding himself with enablers and refusing to work on his weak points, Simmons is responsible for creating the mess this became.

My point was more about the obsession by fans, media, and even his coach on that one part of the game, a part that would probably have taken care of itself if Ben had become a more rounded offensive player and a consistent FT shooter.

[syntax]

I don't understand how the Ben bois constantly find new ways to cape for their guy but it is rather impressive.

The strawmen and goal post moving is amazing.

Ben is a good player that can help a team win games.

Ben has hit a wall in each of his playoff runs.

Ben brings things to the table that this team will miss and find hard to fully replace.

Ben is the last move we can make.

Ben is such a weird player that making a move is hard because the other team needs to be specifically built for him and he has not proven to be good enough to justify it.

This isn't a situation in which Ben either sucks or he is the greatest thing ever. Its somewhere in the middle and it is fluid. However the fact is that due to previous mistakes, moving off Ben is the only major move to make. So regardless if you think he's great or not, thats the bottom line. Thus you canvas the league for his value and hope someone bites and gives up all you can get and go from there. Its not an inditement on Ben persay but rather the reality of the situation. Ben however has not exactly made that as hard of a choice as you'd think it should be. Dude has flamed out in every single playoff. That is the reality of the situation. B-but Embiid had bad games too tho...yeah he has but he also often went down swinging. Ben didn't even try. Yeah some dick heads would still be mad but if Ben came out in game 7 and shot like hot ass, forced the issue, missed FTs and at least attempted to fail..that would be better than him legitamately running away from the ball and then having the gall to go...but my assists tho and Trae didn't shoot that well doe. Embiid for all of his issues...never blames his injuries or fitness..or points to his points in a loss. Even after his big "throw Ben under the bus" moment, he went on to say he has to be better and his turnovers were also a reason we loss. Thats why when Embiid fails, people aren't as harsh on him. So next goal post...'bu-but Tobias tho". Yeah he was bad but I don't think anyone is caping for Tobias. He is what he is. He's not the guy. We all know that but Elton paaaaaid him so we are stuck with him. AND again to his credit, prior to him reverting to his worst qualities, he put in work this whole season and at least showed some attempts at being better at some of those flaws.... Ben has not. Ben doesn't even take those **** turn around shots any more. He doesn't even take his messed up hook shots. He regressed. And why is that? We have more shooters than ever before. He is still the main ball handler. You can attempt to blame Biid but that wasn't a problem in years prior.

Like yall need to hold your boy to the fire occasionally. Embiid was a fat POS in years prior. Dude also needs to stop trying to be superman. He has his issues. But I know despite those flaws (and lets be real everyone has flaws and will always have them) we all know he is going to try his hardest...often to a fault out there. Which makes those short comings less annoying. I too worry about building around a big oaf center in todays NBA but unlike Okafor or say Drummond, Embiid gives a **** and will at the very least make an attempt.

I don't want to just give Ben away. I am tired as **** of these conversations and while it would be great to purge this board of all of the dudes who worship him...that would just be hurting the team longterm. Ben is a good NBA player. He can be better. I just don't know if he will do it here and at this stage I don't know if he even has the self awareness to improve. Which is exactly why you look to see what you can get for him


AGain this isn't rocket science.

Want the stats and metrics again for Ben's playoff games?

11.9 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 8.8 apg, 1.3 stl. 0.8 blk on .621 fg%.

Box plus minus 4.3. Win share 1.4.

His best playoff stats/metrics yet.

If you think it's Ben's job to score in the playoffs, when that wasn't his job all year in the RS, time to get outraged over something else.

Oh wait, so your new angle is that the team WANTS him to be a 12ppg player?

Sweet ol Ben, just following orders. What a darling…

All Doc did was coddle him and try to protect his poor, precious fragile wittle fweelings all season long. And how did your boy choose to repay him? By totally screwing him when it mattered most.

Putting in his best playoff performance to date is screwing Doc?

How about Doc blowing multiple double digit leads amassed by the starters with the bench. Doc did a great job screwing himself. Then blaming others

[mjkvol]

Shouldn't have been trying to make him into a 3 point shooter, should have just been encouraging his aggressiveness, mid-range game and FT shooting this whole time. It was the poor FT shooting that marred him this last playoffs.

Hopefully wherever he goes next they just focus on improving on what he was doing out of college.

Been saying this all along. This ridiculous obsession with three pointers, Brown's public demands of shot quotas, all of it missed the real point, which as you said should have been about creating an aggressive mindset. Simply becoming a solid free throw shooter (70+%), developing a couple pet post moves and maybe a floater, and just learning to finish around the rim combined with his defense and passing would have made him a top 10 player in the sport.

This is all moot at this point, of course, but the thoughts of what could have been will always be frustrating.

Absolutely not. Ben may have been pushed to take more 3 point shots...but guess what he did not. So what was he doing all this time ? All these years ? Practicing 3 point shots and just waiting to unleash them at the right moment?

Ben has not been interested in improving in any area that he does not deem important. What could have been is what is.

You have a subborn, flawed yet talented young player that has insulated himself from any outside suggestions of improvement and just wants to do things his way. And this is the result. Embiid was just as raw if not more so than Ben and yet he improved. Player development was a big theme for this team for a long time. Look at players like TJ, Holmes and Grant all improved and became better players than when they were drafted. Do you know why because they worked on their game and deficits. They listened learned and took some initiative, something that seems lacking in Simmons.

Agree 100%. See my post above.

[Sixersftw]

This is truly a masterclass. I can only sit back and witness this king.

[thenbaman]

cluster ##!#

[76ciology]

Do you guys play ball?

When you play with a star big and you keep bricking 3s at a high volume, the big will get deflated and wont play hard.

If Ben was let those 3s fly, im sure Embiid would have demanded him to be traded a couple of seasons ago.

[Negrodamus]

Do you guys play ball?

When you play with a star big and you keep bricking 3s at a high volume, the big will get deflated and wont play hard.

If Ben was let those 3s fly, im sure Embiid would have demanded him to be traded a couple of seasons ago.

There's a difference between letting 3s "fly" and never, ever, under any circumstance, take a three.

[Negrodamus]

The playoffs isn’t the first time Ben has been criticized for his game. If that is a prevailing thought, then they haven’t been following this team or is completely detached from this team.

Ben’s shortcomings on offense has been a multi year ordeal now.

The stats and metrics don't show this but hey, keep that head in the sand and parrot the narrative. He isn't a "real" all-star afterall.

I'm glad you can agree he's not a "real" all-star. HOFers Shaq and Barkley also agree that Ben is "not that good".

[Negrodamus]

”I think sometimes you kind of get too deep into it where you listen to other people which should never be the thing you do unless they’re giving you positive feedback or trying to help you get better because there’s a lot of negativity out there,” Simmons said, pointing to various social media platforms.

”It’s huge once you kind of block that out, you don’t really care, you kinda go out there feeling free. You don’t care if you miss a shot because everyone misses a shot so that’s one of the things that I think this summer I got back to how I was as a player just playing and doing what I love at a high level.”

Despite being a lightning rod for criticism in Philadelphia, Simmons says he enjoys playing in front of a passionate fan base.

”I love being in Philadelphia. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else,” he said. ”I think this is the perfect place for me. I just handle (criticism) how it comes.”

https://www.nba.com/news/ben-simmons-fell-love-basketball-again


Also Ben:

“(Simmons) is a guy that is aware of the dynamics around him,” Krawczynski said. “He knows that Philly fans can’t wait to boo him on opening night … but more so he knows that in the moment of truth in the playoffs his coach did not have his back and his star teammate kind of sort of a little bit threw him under the bus as well.

[76ciology]

Do you guys play ball?

When you play with a star big and you keep bricking 3s at a high volume, the big will get deflated and wont play hard.

If Ben was let those 3s fly, im sure Embiid would have demanded him to be traded a couple of seasons ago.

There's a difference between letting 3s "fly" and never, ever, under any circumstance, take a three.

Yes there is.

Dont take 3s, nobody is mad except sixers fans.

Letting 3s fly and bricking them, will deflate your teammates’ morale.

If Ben is an average 3pt shooter, he would be jacking them up already like Tobi. But Ben isnt and you can see it with his FT%.

You also have to consider that this team tries to make up it lack of 3pt heavy game with high points per shot and TS%, which Ben letting it fly is the opposite direction while Ben not letting his 3s fly and being opportunistic scorer and pushing the transition and in line with what we want on offense.

If you are relying on Ben to be a good shooter, then I’d rather take my chances on another player becoming better.

For example, Im more optimistic and betting that Sexton or Brogdon can turn into a better player compared to Ben than Ben can be a league average 3pt shooter.

If you want to keep Ben, you have to be realistic and not build your championship hopes around how good can he be as a shooter.

And it’s not impossible, just keep surrounding Biid and Ben with scorers that you’ll have a high surplus that you wouldnt ask Ben to shoot or score and let him do what he is good at instead.

Unless There’s a miracle and Ben becomes an average 3pt shooter, letting Ben shoot at a high volume will make everyone losers..
…team will be worse on offense
…Ben’s will lose more trade value

And i dont know man.. we’ve discussed this for years already

[Mik317]

its not even about the 3s man.

He wasn't even looking to dunk the ball because he was scared of getting fouled.

All he has to do is be a better FT shooter and finisher. He shot 31% from the line in that series man.

All of this other **** is pointless. If he shot his season average we wouldn't be talking about this right now..

You have dudes out here posting 11 pts a game like that is something worth praising. WTF are some of yall on?

[Negrodamus]

Do you guys play ball?

When you play with a star big and you keep bricking 3s at a high volume, the big will get deflated and wont play hard.

If Ben was let those 3s fly, im sure Embiid would have demanded him to be traded a couple of seasons ago.

There's a difference between letting 3s "fly" and never, ever, under any circumstance, take a three.

Yes there is.

Dont take 3s, nobody is mad except sixers fans.

Letting 3s fly and bricking them, will deflate your teammates’ morale.

If Ben is an average 3pt shooter, he would be jacking them up already like Tobi. But Ben isnt and you can see it with his FT%.

You also have to consider that this team tries to make up it lack of 3pt heavy game with high points per shot and TS%, which Ben letting it fly is the opposite direction while Ben not letting his 3s fly and being opportunistic scorer and pushing the transition and in line with what we want on offense.

If you are relying on Ben to be a good shooter, then I’d rather take my chances on another player becoming better.

For example, Im more optimistic and betting that Sexton or Brogdon can turn into a better player compared to Ben than Ben can be a league average 3pt shooter.

If you want to keep Ben, you have to be realistic and not build your championship hopes around how good can he be as a shooter.

And it’s not impossible, just keep surrounding Biid and Ben with scorers that you’ll have a high surplus that you wouldnt ask Ben to shoot or score and let him do what he is good at instead.

Unless There’s a miracle and Ben becomes an average 3pt shooter, letting Ben shoot at a high volume will make everyone losers..
…team will be worse on offense
…Ben’s will lose more trade value

And i dont know man.. we’ve discussed this for years already

"nobody is mad except sixers fan"? What? Three pointers aside, he doesn't take any shots other than at the rim. He's left wide open in the half court. Of course no one else is mad! He's completely crowding the paint, defending us in the halfcourt is easy. I'm sure all the other teams love playing half court defense against us, why would anyone else be mad?

I'm not asking him to become a three point jacker. I want to trade him, to be honest. He could be good on a team that has no center and he completely parks his ass in the paint in the half court. Let that be someone else's scheme, not ours. He has had 5 seasons to become an average jump shooter/FT shooter, not even three point shooter. He has plateaued. It's not worth trying to make his offensive game work at the expense of an MVP candidate.

[Sixersftw]

The theory of Ben was that he wouldn't or couldn't take 3s but, in the halfcourt, he was at least capable of attacking the basket. We've regressed to the point where he only passes the ball in the halfcourt and then runs to the dunkers spot. Even then, he will only attack a wide open layup/dunk (sometimes). I don't get how his offensive performance is defensible. I guess stats w/o context he looks... average but we've all seen every playoff game of his career.

[Mr Loggins]

Want the stats and metrics again for Ben's playoff games?

11.9 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 8.8 apg, 1.3 stl. 0.8 blk on .621 fg%.

Box plus minus 4.3. Win share 1.4.

His best playoff stats/metrics yet.

If you think it's Ben's job to score in the playoffs, when that wasn't his job all year in the RS, time to get outraged over something else.

yeah, but if you're not expecting you're 2nd best player to score in the playoffs, you have a problem

[76ciology]

I also want to trade Ben.

But I just dont think asking Ben to “let it fly” will solve the problem and it will just make it worse.

Regarding Ben as a player, he is better than what he is right now. He is better in a different uniform. He has value and we shouldnt sell him low.

There are teams out there where he could be a WAY better player than what he is on our team and yet him not letting it fly

[Zumramania]

He has to be able to hit an occasional open three, and since his form is really not that bad, I think that this problem is largely mental (as many on this board have suggested before). And since the Sixers are an organization worth billons of dollars, I have to assume they have access to the best psychotherapists/ sport psychologists out there. It seems that Ben has largely refused this type of help and generally refused to ackwnoledge his issues (and from this you can also see he has refused therapy since this is one of the first things you have to do in therapy).
I think that Doc's and Embiid's frustration with all this culminated after that loss and that they said much less than they actually wanted to say lol. And from this you can see that there is little open communication from Ben about his flaws, even with his own teammates. If he were to talk to Embiid about how scared and isecure he was about his FT's and all, Embiid would have never said this publicly.

[Jailblazers7]

No disrespect just my two cents.

I’d rather have Milton than Murray. And in that case, I’d be looking to trade Murray to a fourth team. Maybe the Bulls for Coby White? Murray probably could compliment Lavine and Vuc better.

And no way Cavs would do that deal. And if they do.. it confirms that Milton is a really good player that is someone you wouldnt trade him to get Murray for.

Dribble-Pass-Shoot (Milton) and Dribble-Pass-Defend (Murray) guys are arguably in the same tier. Murray types might be slightly more valuable.

The thing with Milton is, all the sudden, he's becoming a guy who's constantly losing his confidence and going through slumps. I think we want a little more stability and consistency and less maintenance from that position.

If you're not into Murray, ask the Spurs to swap him out for Derrick White. Similar skillset to Milton, same contract as Murray.

I think the combo of Murray + Sexton is a more interesting Simmons replacement because Murray replaces some his defense & overall stat stuffing while Sexton adds efficient volume scoring. Between Murray, Maxey, Sexton, Curry I just don’t see Milton bringing anything that would make me want to take minutes from any of those 4.

Shake had a solid season but he struggled with confidence issues and his 3 point attempt rate plummeted, which really cuts into his usefulness on this team.

[ProcessDoctor]

I think if (when) the Wiz get off to a slow start, Beal will become available and that’s how this situation will resolve. Ben + pick(s) for Beal.


Maxey/Curry/Milton
Beal/Korkmaz/Springer
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond/Bassey


Would be the biggest of wins after all that’s transpired.