Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

[dhsilv2]

This is 100% accurate.

Parker is irrelevant without Duncan, Pop & Spurs.

Duncan and Pop gave Parker his speed and finishing ability

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

The hell? By his second season he was an above average nba player. He was maybe the fastest player in the league period and you think you can find that talent at the Y? he was a below average defender, he wasn't horrible.

[Slim Charlez]

Duncan and Pop gave Parker his speed and finishing ability

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

The hell? By his second season he was an above average nba player. He was maybe the fastest player in the league period and you think you can find that talent at the Y? he was a below average defender, he wasn't horrible.

He was the spurs second leading scorer in 03 at 20/21 yet any guy at the Y could've done that. Laughable. The guy has no clue what he's talking about.

[TheRealKaboom]

Both Parker and Ginoboli are both most likely a lock for the hall of Fame. If both of them didn't play their entire careers on a title contender do you believe the would be considered hall of famers now?

For me if they did get in it wouldn't have been an automatic lock for them.

Want to hear everyone's opinion.

The Harlem Globetrotters are in the Hall of Fame. A bunch of Brazilian women who never even stepped foot inside an NBA arena are in the Hall of Fame.

Is this thread a joke?

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[at87on]

Duncan and Pop gave Parker his speed and finishing ability

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

Why didn't Antonio Daniels, Beno Udrih, Speedy Claxton, Jason Hart, Patty Mills, Corey Joseph or any other mediocre PG who backed him up become a perennial all star and MVP candidate?

Comparing him to guys at Y Give me a break

Tell me you don't know **** about basketball without telling me you don't know **** about basketball

The players you named weren't as good as Parker.

[at87on]

Duncan and Pop gave Parker his speed and finishing ability

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

The hell? By his second season he was an above average nba player. He was maybe the fastest player in the league period and you think you can find that talent at the Y? he was a below average defender, he wasn't horrible.

If he's on any team other than the Spurs with Pop and Duncan, he'd be relegated to bench mins, and be irrelevant in the current context of the NBA history.

[dhsilv2]

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

The hell? By his second season he was an above average nba player. He was maybe the fastest player in the league period and you think you can find that talent at the Y? he was a below average defender, he wasn't horrible.

If he's on any team other than the Spurs with Pop and Duncan, he'd be relegated to bench mins, and be irrelevant in the current context of the NBA history.

A guy drafted in the first round of the draft at 19 years old who in his second year is already an impact player would be on the bench...meanwhile Duncan and Pop didn't have this same effect on anyone else...even had a guy like Jefferson drop off a cliff when he joined the spurs....

[Slim Charlez]

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

Why didn't Antonio Daniels, Beno Udrih, Speedy Claxton, Jason Hart, Patty Mills, Corey Joseph or any other mediocre PG who backed him up become a perennial all star and MVP candidate?

Comparing him to guys at Y Give me a break

Tell me you don't know **** about basketball without telling me you don't know **** about basketball

The players you named weren't as good as Parker.

But Parker is barely better than guys at the Y according to you so which one is it?

[Slim Charlez]

There are many players with speed and finishing ability at the local Y. Playing under Pop and with Duncan allowed Parker to make all those mistakes as a young player, develop his mid-range shot and become an NBA player.

In any other situations, he would have been out of the league.

He was/is a terrible defender, poor playmaker or was a terrible shooter. He eventually developed a decent mid-range game.

The luxury of playing in that team allowed him to use his limited "skills" at that time (speed and finish).

The hell? By his second season he was an above average nba player. He was maybe the fastest player in the league period and you think you can find that talent at the Y? he was a below average defender, he wasn't horrible.

If he's on any team other than the Spurs with Pop and Duncan, he'd be relegated to bench mins, and be irrelevant in the current context of the NBA history.

Pop didn't even want him at first and he was able to force himself in the starting lineup, if he's as bad as you claim why was pop playing him over more experienced guys by his second year? your argument has zero logic

[Bornstellar]

Lmao...some hilariously bad takes in this thread

[dhsilv2]

The hell? By his second season he was an above average nba player. He was maybe the fastest player in the league period and you think you can find that talent at the Y? he was a below average defender, he wasn't horrible.

If he's on any team other than the Spurs with Pop and Duncan, he'd be relegated to bench mins, and be irrelevant in the current context of the NBA history.

Pop didn't even want him at first and he was able to force himself in the starting lineup, if he's as bad as you claim why was pop playing him over more experienced guys by his second year? your argument has zero logic

Or how about how Parker told people that Duncan didn't even speak to him his rookie year?

[Winsome Gerbil]

N. O.

They weren't that special level of talent. Alone, or with middling teammates, they were occasional All Stars, not franchise anchors.

Manu's international play would be his best bet, get in via the Vlade Divac route maybe.

[BostonCouchGM]

neither. Not even close tbh.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Argentina winning gold in 04 is probably the single most amazing basketball accomplishment in the last 20 years.
Hell that entire team should get into the HoF.
Anyone saying Manu wouldn't be in is pretty clueless about either basketball in general or the HoF specifically, or both.

[nomansland]

Gotta separate the two. Manu, no question, for reasons many have already provided. Parker...I am not so sure. Had he landed in a different organization things might not have gone so well. From what I remember reading, Pop had a big impact on his development.

[dhsilv2]

Lmao...some hilariously bad takes in this thread

truly bad takes...the people on here claiming these guys had no chance are just down right lost about basketball, and I mean we have a guy who once said Cousins would be in his top 100 nba players ever making the claim neither were that talented. I mean, laughable stuff.

[G R E Y]

Yes.

Also, it's Tony-Manu-Timmy Day!

Read on Twitter

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EDIT to add:

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[Eric Bieniemy]

I could make a very strong argument that Jordan would've never won a ring without Phil Jackson, Jackson's implementation of the triangle offense, Jackson encouraging Jordan to be less selfish, and Jackson's empowerment of Scottie Pippen by making him the proverbial PG.

If the greatest player ever needed a system to succeed, who are we to judge Ginobli and Parker?

[Bergmaniac]

Manu could have retired right after Argentina won the Olympic gold and still would have gotten into the Hall easily.

[AMW27]

I could make a very strong argument that Jordan would've never won a ring without Phil Jackson, Jackson's implementation of the triangle offense, Jackson encouraging Jordan to be less selfish, and Jackson's empowerment of Scottie Pippen by making him the proverbial PG.

If the greatest player ever needed a system to succeed, who are we to judge Ginobli and Parker?

Jordan would have been a first ballot hall of famer even without Phil Jackson. I believe he also would have won even if Phil never showed up. Regardless of what Impact he had as a coach, he took over as the head coach at the right time.

I'm not knocking Parker and Ginobili because they played their whole careers on a championship contender. I just question if they would have been a for sure lock if they played their whole careers on teams that never won anything. I'm not sure.

[Slim Charlez]

I could make a very strong argument that Jordan would've never won a ring without Phil Jackson, Jackson's implementation of the triangle offense, Jackson encouraging Jordan to be less selfish, and Jackson's empowerment of Scottie Pippen by making him the proverbial PG.

If the greatest player ever needed a system to succeed, who are we to judge Ginobli and Parker?

Jordan would have been a first ballot hall of famer even without Phil Jackson. I believe he also would have won even if Phil never showed up. Regardless of what Impact he had as a coach, he took over as the head coach at the right time.

I'm not knocking Parker and Ginobili because they played their whole careers on a championship contender. I just question if they would have been a for sure lock if they played their whole careers on teams that never won anything. I'm not sure.

They're part of the reason the Spurs won as much as they did though, Ginobili was huge in the 05 finals and Parker destroyed the Cavs in 07 while also being the best player on the team in 13/14 or at least on par with Duncan.