Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd?

[dickfox]

You can argue Giannis won during the most injury superstar plagued playoffs ever and Kawhi didn't have to beat Steph Klay & KD together...

A chip is a chip is a chip is a chip... stop the nonsense

Actually those 2 titles are legit asterisk worthy. Especially the Bucks title.

It's not even up for debate either. There has never been a year where all the top contending teams were decimated by injuries as they were this past season, especially the big 2, the Lakers and Nets. I've never seen anything like it. It was so bad that it adds legitimacy to the Raptors title now.

No asterisk unless you cheat like the Astros did.

[Mickey8]

I don't think there is a doubt in their titles run, but for me personally some titles are more special and valuable than the others,like Dirk's title with Dallas, being the sole superstar on that team and beating Lebron and his super group in the finals.

[twyzted]

Considering I was the one who challenged you in the first place, and no rebuttal came from your end, your logic is non-existent

And i stated very clearly that i dont have anything to prove to you. This isnt a court. You dont get the benefit of doubt.

If think my claim is false then prove it.
Dont expect people to actually do research for you.

You're on a basketball forum where people are discussing and debating lmao. This is 100% a waste of time now for me. I won't be responding anymore here. Bye!

Yes im aware but you werent trying to have a discussion. You were using burden of proof to try and win an argument. But in your stubbornness of trying to be a wiseguy failed to notice that i have already answered what team made the playoffs in the west that year.

I have answered mademan and marcuuuus in this thread and in typical fashion of most people here, get no answer.

So if you want to have discussion then using: lol prove it is not an attempt to have a discussion.

I dont make empty claims, i already knew what teams made the playoffs, how many games the players missed, i knew how many games the lakers players missed and when they missed them, im not here to have a discussion with myself.

[flytimes11]

Lets be real, no player in the history of the game is as good as LeBron James. This leads me to believe that no other player would have been able to win with his supporting casts. The fact he even made 9 finals is a win. Therefore LeBron is 9-0 in the finals and the undisputed, non arguable GOAT of basketball and deserves no asterisks for any of his rings.

[lonniefire]

Yo OP you pissed a lot of people off with this one. There’s a whole thread out there now talking about which championships should have a asterisk

You must’ve really hit a nerve. Guess it was a lot truth to this thread after all.

[Edrees]

Theres been like 70 NBA champions. Im talking about asterisking 6 of them...

You would group the 10 titles where the league had 8 teams with the rest of the titles with no asterisk at all and yet put one on these?

Also, I'm implying there's more than 6 titles that meet the criteria you set for what deserves an asterisks.

Did you actually read the OP? The criteria is simple. Great players who collude with the other great players in the league to win easy totles should be asterisked. The reason is because it violates the spirit of competition which is the basis of sports. If we continue kill the competitive spirit of the game then titles become meaningless. Winning because trivial.

So this doesn't include shoertned seasons, or injuries, or guys being fortunate and landing in a good team with great teammates. Its all about the competitive spirit.

The only way to protect the integrity of the league and the game is to asterisk these manufactured titles.

OP never said great players. It seemed to imply that any player breaking the spirit of competition should give the entire team an asterisk. If you found out Brook Lopez paid the refs last year to rig the game, you don't think that deserves an asterisk? What does it matter how good the player is? We're talking about the TITLE TEAM.

I guarantee you in the history of the NBA almost every title team had at least 2 random role players talk about joining up before they joined. Like at least one conversation took place between the 15 people on the roster, before those two became teammates. That's why every team should fit the criteria of the asterisk. Because under this criteria, there is at least (1) minimal amount of spirit of competition being broken by every title team.

The asterisk you are suggesting would be more like this

*Although this player did exactly what other players did on the other title teams, because he's a better player and did it to a larger extent, which I have arbirarily decided what is a "large" amount and what is a "small" amount of breaking competition, I have considered this asterisk worthy by my subjective judgement*

[Meeksology]

The Cavs Point differential without LeBron by year:

2004: -4.8


2005: -6.7


2006: -6.3

2007: -2.6

2008: -8.5

2009: -6.2

2010: -5.3


Those Cavs teams outside of Lebron weren’t good at all.


Vs Orlando in the 2009 ECF

Against the #1 defence in the league, LeBron averaged 39-8-8, .59.1 TS%.


The Cavs had a 112.9 O rating when he was on the court.


That is a +11.0 offense relative to Orlando’s regular-season D rating.


That would be a historic offensive playoff performance.


In 2 of Cleveland’s losses, LeBron’s on-court plus/minus was positive.


That means the Cavs outscored the Magic in those games, but the Cavs bench gave up the lead when LeBron was sitting.



In the Orlando series, LeBron had 3 teammates who averaged 10+ PPG.

But they combined for a .50.5 TS%.

In the playoffs, LeBron had a 37.4 PER and the 2nd best PER on his team had a 14.5 PER.

That’s a 22.9 PER gap which is the highest in NBA history between the #1 and #2 guy.

If a team and it's roster is built specifically around one player and that player doesn't play, what did you think was gonna happen? They would play better? Lol

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

[lonniefire]

Lets be real, no player in the history of the game is as good as LeBron James. This leads me to believe that no other player would have been able to win with his supporting casts. The fact he even made 9 finals is a win. Therefore LeBron is 9-0 in the finals and the undisputed, non arguable GOAT of basketball and deserves no asterisks for any of his rings.

[michaelm]

This is a very long off season.

KD said it, the general competitiveness of the NBA is not in his job description. I am fine with some titles being assigned greater merit, certainly the Mavs in 2011, and for me also the Spurs in 2014, won by great team play with a mostly ageing cast.

Otherwise if it is wrong for free agents to make free choices then why is there a free agent rule ?. I do think how AD ended up at the Lakers is questionable, particularly with the involvement of Klutch, but LeBron finally got together with a player who was a perfect fit with him in AD, and they played very well to deservedly win a title. Nothing is a sure thing though, and AD is injury prone, an ever present risk for these top heavy teams which also brought 2019 GSW and the 2021 Nets undone.

[michaelm]

The Cavs Point differential without LeBron by year:

2004: -4.8


2005: -6.7


2006: -6.3

2007: -2.6

2008: -8.5

2009: -6.2

2010: -5.3


Those Cavs teams outside of Lebron weren’t good at all.


Vs Orlando in the 2009 ECF

Against the #1 defence in the league, LeBron averaged 39-8-8, .59.1 TS%.


The Cavs had a 112.9 O rating when he was on the court.


That is a +11.0 offense relative to Orlando’s regular-season D rating.


That would be a historic offensive playoff performance.


In 2 of Cleveland’s losses, LeBron’s on-court plus/minus was positive.


That means the Cavs outscored the Magic in those games, but the Cavs bench gave up the lead when LeBron was sitting.



In the Orlando series, LeBron had 3 teammates who averaged 10+ PPG.

But they combined for a .50.5 TS%.

In the playoffs, LeBron had a 37.4 PER and the 2nd best PER on his team had a 14.5 PER.

That’s a 22.9 PER gap which is the highest in NBA history between the #1 and #2 guy.

If a team and it's roster is built specifically around one player and that player doesn't play, what did you think was gonna happen? They would play better? Lol

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

I have never understood the line of argument which basically seems to be that LeBron is so good that it doesn’t matter if he is on a superteam because he will still be the major contributor, true though the latter may be, while the presumably by this argument not as good Durant has restrictions, which often seem to be imposed by LeBron fans at that.