Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread

[dckingsfan]

We also have to consider the doctors and nurses on the front lines of this battle. Just imagine what their work days are like right now.

My workday is just sitting at home on my computer all day. They are struggling just trying to keep people alive but there isn't much they can do. Watching so many people die day after day, week after week, month after month from something that could have easily been prevented has to take a toll. They are begging us to get vaccinated. They aren't asking for much.

It sucks. And lots of them are retiring or moving to other work - it isn't worth it to them after a time (like 18 months) and knowing it is just going to happen again.

[dckingsfan]

Spoiler:

CNN just ran a story about how hospitals in Idaho are so overwhelmed with unvaccinated people that they are faced with denying service to cancer patients and patients needing transplants. Idaho is begging hospitals in Washington state to take some of its Covid patients.

Idaho is 49th in the country in the % of people vaccinated at around 40% and Washington state is 9th in the nation at around 61%.

Tell me again how the “personal choice” not to get vaccinated only affects the individual making that “personal choice.”

It's personal choice when someone has a terrible diet but no one suggests denying care to folks that intake sugar, fast foods at unhealthy levels. That might hit too close to home for many.

Taking illegal drugs is a personal choice but no one says let's deny care to the person having an overdose.

Drinking alcohol is a personal choice but frankly why should anyone care or pay if you decide to wreck your liver. But we do.

Many engage in self-destructive behaviors that hurt themselves and potentially negatively impact others .... but we as society still treat and care for these people despite the decisions made.

Why is this vaccine so different? Where folks can now literally make snap judgements about each other's character solely based on their vax status? Why are we willing to treat all other self-destructive behaviors but not getting the vax is where the line is drawn?

You cannot contract obesity if a fat guy breathes on you. You will not catch an overdose from sitting at a bar next to a junkie. Your grandmother won't choke to death with a tube down her throat because you chose to drink a handle of whiskey. Studies show that in not taking a vaccine means you are 71% more likely to pass the infection on to a family member living in the same house than if you had been vaccinated and caught a break thru infection. (Study on the Delta variant I read from a link at the CIDRAP website.)

This is not just SELF destructive behavior, but is about reducing the collective viral load to prevent the virus from spreading. And to prevent new and more dangerous mutations.

The vaccine is a plane load of fire retardant dumped on trees ahead of a wildfire. If a mess of spruces said "we refuse to get wet, we don't know what might happen if that stuff is poured over here, what if I drown, I read a story once where a trinidad fir tree got swollen pine cones when they took a chinese fire retardant, I want to do my own research by reading facebook posts from people who agree with me politically" .... All while that wild fire is spreading towards town. Then yeah the personal choice of those trees is dangerous when they act as the tinder that immolates the ancient sequoias in the old growth section of the forest.

Now you can say, well, it is natural and healthy for a forest to catch fire and burn some times to clear up dead brush etc. But if you did in this case you are a cold hard heartless bastard for saying: well he made a bad choice to overeat or not take pains to live a healthy lifestyle, etc etc. The numbers are not numbers. They are people choking to death with a tube down their throat. Every digit of that 600,000+ in america is a spark of humanity that also loved their mom or is missed by their five year old daughter. ANYTHING we can to to prevent needless death is the duty of all caring human beings. And protecting the safety and health of those individual people drowning in their own decaying lungs is the point and purpose of government. Even if those individual digits don't feel like it is their duty to help any other neighboring digit because they value their personal choice over anybody else's whole damn life. Otherwise why have civilization and government in the first place. We agree to follow certain rules so life is generally more livable and we don't have to protect ourselves against the dude who lives next door. Obeying law is a personal choice, but the laws are there so even if you don't feel like it you still have to make decisions that protect the greater good.

One poke in the arm and a day of a booboo in the injection site of a miracle of science that was swiftly invented and has proven remarkably free of side effects so far in the world's largest mass trial of a new medicine. Yeah, you might be anxious with various what ifs. Still, those what ifs are far less likely to kill someone than this sudden aerosol infection that has killed 1 in 500 americans.

And taking it to its logical conclusion. Let's assume 30% of folks in the US take zero vaccines going forward. Guess what, vaccines are most effective when everyone takes them.

Vaccines have approximately doubled our life expectancy. Shall we go back to those days?

[Ruzious]

And going back to that comparison to obese people... if you were morbidly obese and could take a shot in the arm or 2 to cure it knowing there's next to no side affects, is there any chance in the world that you would turn that opportunity down?

And btw, there are laws against drinking and driving. There are laws against taking opiates and other halucinagenic drugs and driving. So just stop with these inane comps used for insane rationalizations.

[doclinkin]

And going back to that comparison to obese people... if you were morbidly obese and could take a shot in the arm or 2 to cure it knowing there's next to no side affects, is there any chance in the world that you would turn that opportunity down?

And btw, there are laws against drinking and driving. There are laws against taking opiates and other halucinagenic drugs and driving. So just stop with these inane comps used for insane rationalizations.

Likewise imagine you COULD catch morbid obesity by someone sneezing on you. Death may be too abstract for people to understand, they feel immortal. But if you could catch the fatness and suddenly not fit in the cab of your truck, people would be pulling guns for their right to get the vaccine.

[Dat2U]

Spoiler:

It's personal choice when someone has a terrible diet but no one suggests denying care to folks that intake sugar, fast foods at unhealthy levels. That might hit too close to home for many.

Taking illegal drugs is a personal choice but no one says let's deny care to the person having an overdose.

Drinking alcohol is a personal choice but frankly why should anyone care or pay if you decide to wreck your liver. But we do.

Many engage in self-destructive behaviors that hurt themselves and potentially negatively impact others .... but we as society still treat and care for these people despite the decisions made.

Why is this vaccine so different? Where folks can now literally make snap judgements about each other's character solely based on their vax status? Why are we willing to treat all other self-destructive behaviors but not getting the vax is where the line is drawn?

You cannot contract obesity if a fat guy breathes on you. You will not catch an overdose from sitting at a bar next to a junkie. Your grandmother won't choke to death with a tube down her throat because you chose to drink a handle of whiskey. Studies show that in not taking a vaccine means you are 71% more likely to pass the infection on to a family member living in the same house than if you had been vaccinated and caught a break thru infection. (Study on the Delta variant I read from a link at the CIDRAP website.)

This is not just SELF destructive behavior, but is about reducing the collective viral load to prevent the virus from spreading. And to prevent new and more dangerous mutations.

The vaccine is a plane load of fire retardant dumped on trees ahead of a wildfire. If a mess of spruces said "we refuse to get wet, we don't know what might happen if that stuff is poured over here, what if I drown, I read a story once where a trinidad fir tree got swollen pine cones when they took a chinese fire retardant, I want to do my own research by reading facebook posts from people who agree with me politically" .... All while that wild fire is spreading towards town. Then yeah the personal choice of those trees is dangerous when they act as the tinder that immolates the ancient sequoias in the old growth section of the forest.

Now you can say, well, it is natural and healthy for a forest to catch fire and burn some times to clear up dead brush etc. But if you did in this case you are a cold hard heartless bastard for saying: well he made a bad choice to overeat or not take pains to live a healthy lifestyle, etc etc. The numbers are not numbers. They are people choking to death with a tube down their throat. Every digit of that 600,000+ in america is a spark of humanity that also loved their mom or is missed by their five year old daughter. ANYTHING we can to to prevent needless death is the duty of all caring human beings. And protecting the safety and health of those individual people drowning in their own decaying lungs is the point and purpose of government. Even if those individual digits don't feel like it is their duty to help any other neighboring digit because they value their personal choice over anybody else's whole damn life. Otherwise why have civilization and government in the first place. We agree to follow certain rules so life is generally more livable and we don't have to protect ourselves against the dude who lives next door. Obeying law is a personal choice, but the laws are there so even if you don't feel like it you still have to make decisions that protect the greater good.

One poke in the arm and a day of a booboo in the injection site of a miracle of science that was swiftly invented and has proven remarkably free of side effects so far in the world's largest mass trial of a new medicine. Yeah, you might be anxious with various what ifs. Still, those what ifs are far less likely to kill someone than this sudden aerosol infection that has killed 1 in 500 americans.

And taking it to its logical conclusion. Let's assume 30% of folks in the US take zero vaccines going forward. Guess what, vaccines are most effective when everyone takes them.

Vaccines have approximately doubled our life expectancy. Shall we go back to those days?

MRNA vaccines doubled life expectancy? At least the J&J is pretty effective, right? Being skeptical doesn't one anti-vaxx.

[gesa2]

Spoiler:

You cannot contract obesity if a fat guy breathes on you. You will not catch an overdose from sitting at a bar next to a junkie. Your grandmother won't choke to death with a tube down her throat because you chose to drink a handle of whiskey. Studies show that in not taking a vaccine means you are 71% more likely to pass the infection on to a family member living in the same house than if you had been vaccinated and caught a break thru infection. (Study on the Delta variant I read from a link at the CIDRAP website.)

This is not just SELF destructive behavior, but is about reducing the collective viral load to prevent the virus from spreading. And to prevent new and more dangerous mutations.

The vaccine is a plane load of fire retardant dumped on trees ahead of a wildfire. If a mess of spruces said "we refuse to get wet, we don't know what might happen if that stuff is poured over here, what if I drown, I read a story once where a trinidad fir tree got swollen pine cones when they took a chinese fire retardant, I want to do my own research by reading facebook posts from people who agree with me politically" .... All while that wild fire is spreading towards town. Then yeah the personal choice of those trees is dangerous when they act as the tinder that immolates the ancient sequoias in the old growth section of the forest.

Now you can say, well, it is natural and healthy for a forest to catch fire and burn some times to clear up dead brush etc. But if you did in this case you are a cold hard heartless bastard for saying: well he made a bad choice to overeat or not take pains to live a healthy lifestyle, etc etc. The numbers are not numbers. They are people choking to death with a tube down their throat. Every digit of that 600,000+ in america is a spark of humanity that also loved their mom or is missed by their five year old daughter. ANYTHING we can to to prevent needless death is the duty of all caring human beings. And protecting the safety and health of those individual people drowning in their own decaying lungs is the point and purpose of government. Even if those individual digits don't feel like it is their duty to help any other neighboring digit because they value their personal choice over anybody else's whole damn life. Otherwise why have civilization and government in the first place. We agree to follow certain rules so life is generally more livable and we don't have to protect ourselves against the dude who lives next door. Obeying law is a personal choice, but the laws are there so even if you don't feel like it you still have to make decisions that protect the greater good.

One poke in the arm and a day of a booboo in the injection site of a miracle of science that was swiftly invented and has proven remarkably free of side effects so far in the world's largest mass trial of a new medicine. Yeah, you might be anxious with various what ifs. Still, those what ifs are far less likely to kill someone than this sudden aerosol infection that has killed 1 in 500 americans.

And taking it to its logical conclusion. Let's assume 30% of folks in the US take zero vaccines going forward. Guess what, vaccines are most effective when everyone takes them.

Vaccines have approximately doubled our life expectancy. Shall we go back to those days?

MRNA vaccines doubled life expectancy? At least the J&J is pretty effective, right? Being skeptical doesn't one anti-vaxx.

Dat2U I think he was referring to vaccines in general, and the doubling of life expectancy in the last 100 years. Mostly right, although we have to give clean water and sewers some credit as well.

[gesa2]

And going back to that comparison to obese people... if you were morbidly obese and could take a shot in the arm or 2 to cure it knowing there's next to no side affects, is there any chance in the world that you would turn that opportunity down?

And btw, there are laws against drinking and driving. There are laws against taking opiates and other halucinagenic drugs and driving. So just stop with these inane comps used for insane rationalizations.

You’re right. Though I’ve made them myself the comparisons aren’t valid because of the public health impact.
The ethic of not treating people differently based on their medical choices before they present themselves in front of you is also valid. If we start to dehumanize patients based on their decision not to vaccinate we start down a very bad road.

[tontoz]

Another thing that bothers me is that viruses typically aren't very active this time of year. We are still in summer with 2k people dying daily.This is the time of year when the flu shot becomes available for people who want to be protected in the winter.

What are december/january going to look like with nurses quitting, boosters not approved under 65, and the vaccines wearing off?

[dckingsfan]

Another thing that bothers me is that viruses typically aren't very active this time of year. We are still in summer with 2k people dying daily.This is the time of year when the flu shot becomes available for people who want to be protected in the winter.

What are december/january going to look like with nurses quitting, boosters not approved under 65, and the vaccines wearing off?

Well, good thing we aren't going to pass 3/4 million reported Covid deaths by January.

Or a 1 1/4 million reported and reported and excess deaths by January.

I guess it isn't bad until we hit what number? 5M? 10M? Anyone, anyone? Bueller?

[dckingsfan]

... the proportion of patients without comorbidity increased from 16 to 42% (p = 0.007).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95067-7

[dangermouse]

And taking it to its logical conclusion. Let's assume 30% of folks in the US take zero vaccines going forward. Guess what, vaccines are most effective when everyone takes them.

Vaccines have approximately doubled our life expectancy. Shall we go back to those days?

When the vaccine is an effective inoculant: yes

When it isnt, as in this case: self-selection of, and continuous emergence of, vaccine-immunity escaping variants

Give it 3 months, they'll be blaming brand new mega-outbreaks among the majority of the vaccinated on the non-vaccinated, and say its their fault for not getting vaccinated. That isnt how it works. That isnt how evolution works anywhere especially in the realm of rapidly evolving RNA-viruses. We have seen how rapidly this one evolves, there seems to be a new variant on the watch list every month.

We can also see the effect of leaky vaccines on viral evolution. There are a number of scientific studies into vaccine-driven evolution of coronaviruses in livestock, including infectious bronchitis virus in poultry which has been (attempted to be) controlled via vaccination with no success due to self selection for immune escape. Its also worth noting that the SARS virus (SARS-Covid-1) has never had a successful vaccine developed for it - we are just lucky the case to death rate was so high in that virus that it disappeared on its own.

[doclinkin]

And taking it to its logical conclusion. Let's assume 30% of folks in the US take zero vaccines going forward. Guess what, vaccines are most effective when everyone takes them.

Vaccines have approximately doubled our life expectancy. Shall we go back to those days?

When the vaccine is an effective inoculant: yes

When it isnt, as in this case: self-selection of, and continuous emergence of, vaccine-immunity escaping variants

Unsupported by the data. The premise is flawed when the earliest samples of variants emerged before vaccination and have been gestated initially in countries with low vaccination rates. The Delta variant appears to be driving breakthrough infections in vaccinated countries, however the surge in the US is primarily in states that have low vaccination rates. The mass UK studies testing 100,000 people a week show a significantly reduced viral load among vaccinated people who test positive. Additionally vaccinated people appear to be infectious for a shorter period of time, with a steep drop in the viral load after a week. We can 'what if' ourselves to a frenzy, but the data shows that even with Delta driving breakthru infections the spread of the virus is significantly reduced by vaccination. UK studies suggest 88%. And even in countries where the breakthrough rate is higher (Israel) the vaccine seems to be 93% effective in preventing hospitalization from the Delta variant. There is some variation in vaccine effectiveness depending on what brand of jab you receive, but all seem to significantly reduce transmission. Even a 50% reduction in transmission rate would starve the virus if absolutely everyone got the dose.

The real danger of new variants emerging is not in countries with a vaccine-reduced viral load, but in places like Africa where the vaccination rate is only around 5%, especially in east African countries that have a great deal of commerce with India.

IF there were danger in new vaccine resistant strains theoretically emerging from a vaccinated populace it would be in countries that have patchy coverage in vaccination, where breakthru infections would be passed to unvaccinated populace who would pass it quicker and incubate it in their communities then it would spread back to the vaccinated populace at large. In that respect it is the vaccine-resistant MINDSET that is the danger to everyone more than the virus itself.

[tontoz]

[Ruzious]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/opinion-the-words-trump-couldn-t-bring-himself-to-say/ar-AAOBtyl?ocid=entnewsntp&fullscreen=true#image=4

[Pointgod]

28 yr old anitvaxer asks people to pray for her

.In so much pain’: Political activist Laura Loomer, who wished for COVID, now has it


Outspoken anti vaxxer and alt-right agitator Laura Loomer is feeling the effects of COVID-19.

The 28-year-old Barry University alum
announced she had contracted the virus on conservative social media platform Gettr Wednesday

“I had a fever, chills, a runny nose, sore throat, nausea and severe body aches that made my whole body feel like I got hit by a bus,

“Just pray for me, please. Can’t even begin to explain how brutal the body aches and nausea that come with COVID are. I am in so much pain.”

https://news.yahoo.com/much-pain-political-activist-laura-203143470.html

I can't wish that on her. Hope she gets better.

I don’t

Read on Twitter

[montestewart]

28 yr old anitvaxer asks people to pray for her



https://news.yahoo.com/much-pain-political-activist-laura-203143470.html

I can't wish that on her. Hope she gets better.

I don’t

Read on Twitter

And her survival will no doubt be attributed, not to luck of the draw and/or the care she received from overextended medical professionals, but fortitude and virtue, proving all of this is just one big hoax.

I’m with Ruzious, I hope that sniveling shameless dramarama hypocrite zhole survives.

[tontoz]

Age is a major risk factor for people with Covid-19. People in their 30s are four times as likely to die from infections as people ages 18 to 29, according to the CDC.

Tampa General’s recent Covid-19 patients in intensive care were 46 years old on average,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-deaths-in-delta-surge-hit-younger-unvaccinated-people-11631525400

[tontoz]

24 yr old covid patient gives interview from his hospital bed, then dies.

Watch on YouTube

;t=155s

[nate33]

That chart is saying that the are less than 2 severe cases per 100K for people younger than 30. The risk of vaccine induced myocarditis for young boys is estimated to be 6.6 per 100K (according to CDC numbers), or between 9.4 and 16.2 per 100K (recent study by Hoeg, et al.).

Why should my son take a 6.6 in 100K risk from the vaccine to reduce his severe Covid risk from 1.6 in 100K to 0 in 100K?

[tontoz]

That chart is saying that the are less than 2 severe cases per 100K for people younger than 30. The risk of vaccine induced myocarditis for young boys is estimated to be 6.6 per 100K (according to CDC numbers), or between 9.4 and 16.2 per 100K (recent study by Hoeg, et al.).

Why should my son take a 6.6 in 100K risk from the vaccine to reduce his severe Covid risk from 1.6 in 100K to 0 in 100K?

So how many of those myocarditis cases are severe?