Kobe Bryant: Defensive Contributions Examined & Debated

[Point-Forward]

Hi guys.

I made an extensive compilation showcasing Kobe's defensive plays from the Lakers Playoffs runs of 2000, 2001 and 2002. To me this is his absolute defensive peak, and I actually think his contributions here get a little bit underrated because of the "artificially induced" narrative concerning the later stages of his career, when he started to get All-Defense nominations without actually deserving them, and all of that. That might have clouded some people's judgement a bit. But when talking about the three-peat though? I think he was pretty valuable in those specific years. Just my opinion.

Watch on YouTube

EDIT: Here's a video of his defense throughout the 2008 to 2010 Playoff stretch also:

Watch on YouTube

So, as always, let me use this as an opportunity to spark a little bit of debate. I'll do it by asking you all a series of questions:

1. In general, what do you think about Kobe's defense and how it impacted his teams throughout the years? Overrated or underrated?
2. Do you agree that his peak defensive ability came in 2000-2002? If not, when and why did it happen?
3. Where would you rank him defensively all time in terms of perimeter players? Better and/or worse than who? Why?
4. Strengths and weaknesses defensively. What did he do poorly, what on an acceptable level and on what did he excel?

Anyway, let's have a good time discussing this. Hope you enjoy the video, btw.

[SecondTake]

Why are so many of these highlights with commentators speaking in an unusual language? It makes it a bit hard to watch when it goes back and forth like that.

[Texas Chuck]

Lakers Playoffs runs of 2000, 2001 and 2002. To me this is his absolute defensive peak, and I actually think his contributions here get a little bit underrated because of the "artificially induced" narrative concerning the later stages of his career, when he started to get All-Defense nominations without actually deserving them, and all of that. That might have clouded some people's judgement a bit. .

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Kobe's defense, but I agree that those later undeserved all-D nods throw an unfair cloud over some of the seasons when he really was an impact defender. I appreciate you reminding his detractors of this while also acknowledging to his very strong supporters who will be in this thread shortly I'm sure, that all of those all-D teams definitely weren't legit.

Like almost every offensive player with the load Kobe carried post-Shaq and pre-Pau, its just unrealistic to think he has the energy to defend at a high level possession by possession as well. And of course as he aged he also had a natural decline.

But those early years, he was very very good.

[Cerohero]

Goatbe

Consensus top 8

General consensus MJ> kobe > Lebron

Incoming butthurt Lebron fans trying to deny fact

Trolling/baiting is prohibited on the General Board.
-js21

[LakersLegacy]

See 2000 when Phil Jackson gave Kobe the assignment to be the Navy Seal of what the Lakers needed to win. The little things that didn’t necessarily get recognition. That pushed Scottie Pippen to the point of hitting furniture.

Also see the Doberman defense of 2007 and 2008 Team USA where Kobe chose to focus on defense instead of offense. As he was burnt out on offense a bit and wanted to use the opportunity to be the defensive enforcer. Also where he used the scrimmage opportunity to team up with the bench players and go against the next generation of great players and even hit the game winner at the buzzer in Vegas in 2007.

Phil Jackson was a great motivator. The methods he used to focus Kobe and the books he assigned for the mentality and defensive approach are described in Phil Jackson’s books and in interviews by both Phil and Kobe

Also the shark diving to learn not to flinch. No sharks the first time so he kept going. Even getting his daughter Natalia to dive with him in the cage. Just silly stuff. And slightly eccentric stories.

Kobe definitely had that defensive gear. Had a lot of all defensive teams even though he’s remembered as an offensive player. He let Durant have the scoring title in the final game of the season vs the Kings. Scoring titles didn’t mean anything to Kobe. He actually seemed to be irked by being perceived as not a well rounded player. Lead the Lakers in assists at least 9 times. … I forget how many. The triangle hybrid offense wasn’t about flashy numbers. It was about reactive musician improv like basketball.

The main thing was demoralizing opponents on the court. And the other main thing was encouraging other players off the court which many Tatum, Booker… continue to share their stories about. He was a good dude and cared about being a good ambassador of work ethic and of love of basketball

[Point-Forward]

Lakers Playoffs runs of 2000, 2001 and 2002. To me this is his absolute defensive peak, and I actually think his contributions here get a little bit underrated because of the "artificially induced" narrative concerning the later stages of his career, when he started to get All-Defense nominations without actually deserving them, and all of that. That might have clouded some people's judgement a bit. .

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Kobe's defense, but I agree that those later undeserved all-D nods throw an unfair cloud over some of the seasons when he really was an impact defender. I appreciate you reminding his detractors of this while also acknowledging to his very strong supporters who will be in this thread shortly I'm sure, that all of those all-D teams definitely weren't legit.

Like almost every offensive player with the load Kobe carried post-Shaq and pre-Pau, its just unrealistic to think he has the energy to defend at a high level possession by possession as well. And of course as he aged he also had a natural decline.

But those early years, he was very very good.

Where would you rank that Kobe defensively from an historical point of view? Do you think it's a reach to put him in the top-10 category of perimeter guards? Or to rephrase this, who do you see as clearly better defenders than that version of him and who do you think it's more debatable?

[Texas Chuck]

Where would you rank that Kobe defensively from an historical point of view? Do you think it's a reach to put him in the top-10 category of perimeter guards? Or to rephrase this, who do you see as clearly better defenders than that version of him and who do you think it's more debatable?

I don't have a list, but he wouldn't make a top ten. That would be composed of guys with less offensive responsibility who could devote full attention to that end.

Guys like Tony Allen, Doug Christie, Michael Cooper, Nate McMillan, Jrue Holiday, Squid, etc....

[Point-Forward]

See 2000 when Phil Jackson gave Kobe the assignment to be the Navy Seal of what the Lakers needed to win. The little things that didn’t necessarily get recognition. That pushed Scottie Pippen to the point of hitting furniture.

Also see the Doberman defense of 2007 and 2008 Team USA where Kobe chose to focus on defense instead of offense. As he was burnt out on offense a bit and wanted to use the opportunity to be the defensive enforcer. Also where he used the scrimmage opportunity to team up with the bench players and go against the next generation of great players and even hit the game winner at the buzzer in Vegas in 2007.

By rewatching almost all of the Lakers games from 2000, 2001 and 2002, I noticed something that I somehow forgot. During the 2000 Conference Finals against Portland he was literally a monster defensively. Aside from winning a game with a block on Sabonis, he actually guarded pretty effectively at least 4 different players (Stoudamire, Pippen, Bonzi and Smith), which is more clear than ever in the decisive Game 7. I mean, I knew he was pretty good defensively, but he was even better and more disruptive than I remembered.

Also, nice point with the 2007 thing. That defense on Barbosa during the 2007 FIBA Americas clearly had a huge transformative effect on the whole USA crew. This might actually be his biggest achievement in terms of leadership.

[FrobeBryant]

Kobe received All Defensive honors 12 times in his career. Not only was his offense comparable to Jordan but during his prime his defense was too. Yeah I know MJ won DPOY and was generally a better defender but when Kobe locked in on a player, he was just as good as Jordan imo. A lot of people want to say he didn’t earn many of those defensive accolades but he was voted in regardless, meaning they were deserved. I don’t get why people think they know more than the people voting for these awards.

[picc]

Obviously his defensive rep benefited from these years and he got some undeserved accolades in later years because of it. But your post touches on something that I think should get more traction in general, not just with Kobe, and that's defensive situational utility.

Having a consistent defensive motor that you don't just "switch" on is the ideal scenario, and is why the best defenders are looked at as such. But this is also a regular season thing more than anything. Take Lebron for instance. In the 2016 finals, people think he played some of the best defense anyone has ever played. His regular season was unremarkable defensively, and much of the east playoffs were, but his ability to turn it up to a high level for bursts was a key difference in the Cavs winning instead of losing the championship.

Kawhi deciding to pick Luka up full time helped the Clippers win the first round this year, when they would have lost otherwise, and Kawhi's defense wasn't particularly noteworthy in the regular season.

The playoffs are low sample size situations where a few possessions, a half, a game, or a single series of high level defense can be the difference between an early exit and a late exit or a title. You don't want players half-assing it during the regular season to get regular season awards based on what they "could" do, so it does suck when players (like Kobe) take defensive team selections from more deserving guys.

But his ability to play high level defense situationally has helped the Lakers win a lot of playoff games we would not have otherwise. Just for instance, the 2002 WCF against the Kings, that huge game 4 comeback that was capped by Horry's game-winner happened in part because Kobe switched onto Mike Bibby in the second half, and almost completely shut him down after he'd been red hot in the first. In the 2009 WCF, he switched onto whoever of Melo, Billups, or JR was hot at the time, and took them out of the game. In the 2010 finals he was all over the place on D. Etc. When its nut time, he shows up on that end.

You want players who play defense with focus and energy at all times, but thats almost impossible with offensive initiators. If you place a lot of value into the regular season, that's fine. But a players regular season performance is not necessarily an indicator of how much he can help you in the playoffs. Which goes both ways, as some players lose utility worse in higher intensity lower sample size scenarios.

But Kobe in particular, regardless of how he coasted on D during the regular season, typically became a critical part of the team's defense in the playoffs.

[thebigbird]

Kobe received All Defensive honors 12 times in his career. Not only was his offense comparable to Jordan but during his prime his defense was too. Yeah I know MJ won DPOY and was generally a better defender but when Kobe locked in on a player, he was just as good as Jordan imo. A lot of people want to say he didn’t earn many of those defensive accolades but he was voted in regardless, meaning they were deserved. I don’t get why people think they know more than the people voting for these awards.

Neither his offense nor his defense were comparable to Jordan.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

Kobe received All Defensive honors 12 times in his career. Not only was his offense comparable to Jordan but during his prime his defense was too. Yeah I know MJ won DPOY and was generally a better defender but when Kobe locked in on a player, he was just as good as Jordan imo. A lot of people want to say he didn’t earn many of those defensive accolades but he was voted in regardless, meaning they were deserved. I don’t get why people think they know more than the people voting for these awards.

Kobe was a very slack defender, a very part-time defender, the opposite of Jordan.....in addition to being nowhere near as athletic as Jordan.

[Strepbacter]

At his defensive peak (2001) he was the second best defensive guard in the league.

[loserX]

Defense is in large part about effort, and Kobe was one of the fiercest competitors of all time. He was, however, also human, and it's hard for anyone to go 100% on offence and 100% on defence for as many minutes as Kobe played. When he devoted that energy to defence, he was ferocious.

When he was good, he was very, very good. When he was bad (and I think even his most ardent supporters will acknowledge this, to their credit) he was quite bad. Later in his career he was sagging off guys so far he might as well have been in the next arena. Most of the time he was somewhere in between.

[Pennebaker]

A common refrain in Phil Jackson's books was about how he thought Kobe was overrated defensively. He didn't mean to suggest that Kobe was a bad defender - Kobe was not a bad defender - but that he thought Kobe was making all-defensive teams based on his name and not his actual defense.

In short, Jackson thought Kobe gambled too much and wasn't a defensive leader, which is why he wanted to bring in Scottie Pippen or Ron Harper on the Lakers - to provide some defensive leadership and defensive IQ.

[cupcakesnake]

I've come to think about Kobe's defense this way:
He was an awesome on-ball defender. Elite quick and athletism for a big guard/small wing, and his dogged competitiveness really took him to an elite level. He was average (at best) as a help defender. Over the first third of Kobe's career, he was utilized as an on-ball defender. His effort wasn't always elite, but he was good enough to ramp it up whenever. By the mid-2000s until the end of his career, Kobe was moved off-ball, mostly to conserve his energy for scoring. He could make some plays defending the nail and doubling the post, but his help defense wasn't something to write home about. Even late-career Kobe though would occasionally bust out a lockdown perimeter possession to remind people/keep the myth alive. Mamba mentality babay!

Basically, Kobe had an elite defensive role, but he only played that role during the early portion of his career. Frobe8>Kobe24 because he was properly utilized as a defender and wasn't saving it for offense.

[Knightfall]

Goatbe

Consensus top 8

General consensus MJ> kobe > Lebron

Incoming butthurt Lebron fans trying to deny fact

Trolling/baiting is prohibited on the General Board.
-js21

Well about top 12 to 16 range for who some would call a very over rated player.

[GregOden]

At his defensive peak (2001) he was the second best defensive guard in the league.

Who was number 1 would you say? Kerry Kittles?

[LarsV8]

Very good defender earlier in his career, but not significant from an all time standpoint.

[BostonCouchGM]

post Shaq he was a pedestrian defender and even a liability during many of those later years. He kept getting accolades based on reputation but he absolutely didn't deserve them. For a 5-6 year stretch he was the game's best player along with Shaq because of his defense