2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Slim Charless]

Meh. Who does Orlando have that can put up 20 ppg? They also have a huge hole at SF. In Detroit, Cade will be the go to most likely but they could use a 1B. Point is, they have money and will spend it.

[bwgood77]

+1

I don't see tax being as big of an issue as some make it out to be. During the SSOL days, Sarver had just purchased the Suns and pouring millions and millions following the purchase just to fund the roster and operations. It's been well over a decade since and he's more than recouped the value and operational expenses he put into running that SSOL team and I think we're well positioned with the added revenue sources you've mentioned to go into the tax for a couple of seasons if we continue to be an elite contender.

I love the positivity guys and hope you're right but facts and facts and everything we've seen from Sarver has shown that he won't be paying all this tax. I forgot the #### but someone laid it out earlier this summer and threw price tag to resign everyone is MASSIVE.

Ghost is right and it's a very good question if we can trust Sarver to pay up. I don't need to remind long time posters like yourselves that only 2 short years ago we were having conversations about Sarver being the worst(and cheapest) owner in sports. Now, everyone thinks he gonna open up the wallet and make it rain like Nelly in a strip club. I'm hesitant to believe that.

Why haven't we gotten the Ayton extension yet? Even the haters of Ayton, admit that he's likely due a max....and yet. Nothing. Every Suns fan needs to be very concerned about our cheapass owner. Now, I don't think there's anyway that DA is going anywhere, but this Mikal situation is something that can break bad.

No doubt there is a lot of trust and faith put in old Bob Sarver. We've only ever paid luxury tax 3 times (2007-2009) and we know Sarver had forced a couple of financially focused moves during that time which hurt our championship chances. After the 2012 season, we've basically been in the bottom 5 in player salary until this past season where we had the #22 highest salary. Even this upcoming season, we're ranked 20 in salary. For comparison, the top contenders like the Lakers, Nets, Bucks and I suppose Utah are ranked 4, 2, 5 and 6. FWIW the Clippers are #3 and the Warriors are #1.

My point is basically that Sarver has had it good from a financial standpoint. We've gotten tax payments over the past decade from those teams contending while we're running a very lean roster. He's had more than enough time to recover from his big purchase a decade and a half ago and I trust he'll do the right thing to pay the tax while CP3 is on the roster. No one knows whether Sarver is actually going to do it or not but he's said he's expecting to pay the tax to win a title.

As for the Ayton extension, I really have no concern over that. Mikal is a little different but based on what Sarver has said himself, I expect he'll retain talent because that's how you win.

I don't think he minds too much if the team is good, the arena is full and we are getting playoff revenue. That's a big difference in money. It used to be like $1 million extra per home playoff game. I think that was an extra $10 million this year. But now the arena will start to be full, which makes a difference, especially after the last two years.

From 2005-08 we had young players so probably didn't need to go into luxury tax (though I can't remember when the luxury tax started). The biggest ridiculous thing he likely forced that was costly was trading Kurt Thomas.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Dave King (@DaveKingNBA) Tweeted:
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[Slim Charless]

I love the positivity guys and hope you're right but facts and facts and everything we've seen from Sarver has shown that he won't be paying all this tax. I forgot the #### but someone laid it out earlier this summer and threw price tag to resign everyone is MASSIVE.

Ghost is right and it's a very good question if we can trust Sarver to pay up. I don't need to remind long time posters like yourselves that only 2 short years ago we were having conversations about Sarver being the worst(and cheapest) owner in sports. Now, everyone thinks he gonna open up the wallet and make it rain like Nelly in a strip club. I'm hesitant to believe that.

Why haven't we gotten the Ayton extension yet? Even the haters of Ayton, admit that he's likely due a max....and yet. Nothing. Every Suns fan needs to be very concerned about our cheapass owner. Now, I don't think there's anyway that DA is going anywhere, but this Mikal situation is something that can break bad.

No doubt there is a lot of trust and faith put in old Bob Sarver. We've only ever paid luxury tax 3 times (2007-2009) and we know Sarver had forced a couple of financially focused moves during that time which hurt our championship chances. After the 2012 season, we've basically been in the bottom 5 in player salary until this past season where we had the #22 highest salary. Even this upcoming season, we're ranked 20 in salary. For comparison, the top contenders like the Lakers, Nets, Bucks and I suppose Utah are ranked 4, 2, 5 and 6. FWIW the Clippers are #3 and the Warriors are #1.

My point is basically that Sarver has had it good from a financial standpoint. We've gotten tax payments over the past decade from those teams contending while we're running a very lean roster. He's had more than enough time to recover from his big purchase a decade and a half ago and I trust he'll do the right thing to pay the tax while CP3 is on the roster. No one knows whether Sarver is actually going to do it or not but he's said he's expecting to pay the tax to win a title.

As for the Ayton extension, I really have no concern over that. Mikal is a little different but based on what Sarver has said himself, I expect he'll retain talent because that's how you win.

I don't think he minds too much if the team is good, the arena is full and we are getting playoff revenue. That's a big difference in money. It used to be like $1 million extra per home playoff game. I think that was an extra $10 million this year. But now the arena will start to be full, which makes a difference, especially after the last two years.

From 2005-08 we had young players so probably didn't need to go into luxury tax (though I can't remember when the luxury tax started). The biggest ridiculous thing he likely forced that was costly was trading Kurt Thomas.

....and selling our drafts picks and letting JJ walk-tho we did get Doris, who was good for a few years. If he didn't want to go into tax, fine then trade those picks for other picks down the road. We could've said to team X "hey we'll give our pick this year, if you give us yours 3 years from now"

Or he could've just drafted a Euro and stashed him for a few years.

Or he could've traded our low picks for multiple 2nd rounders down the road who don't have a guaranteed salary. Maybe we could've unearthed Draymond or Joker.

There's many other options besides what he did.

[bwgood77]

No doubt there is a lot of trust and faith put in old Bob Sarver. We've only ever paid luxury tax 3 times (2007-2009) and we know Sarver had forced a couple of financially focused moves during that time which hurt our championship chances. After the 2012 season, we've basically been in the bottom 5 in player salary until this past season where we had the #22 highest salary. Even this upcoming season, we're ranked 20 in salary. For comparison, the top contenders like the Lakers, Nets, Bucks and I suppose Utah are ranked 4, 2, 5 and 6. FWIW the Clippers are #3 and the Warriors are #1.

My point is basically that Sarver has had it good from a financial standpoint. We've gotten tax payments over the past decade from those teams contending while we're running a very lean roster. He's had more than enough time to recover from his big purchase a decade and a half ago and I trust he'll do the right thing to pay the tax while CP3 is on the roster. No one knows whether Sarver is actually going to do it or not but he's said he's expecting to pay the tax to win a title.

As for the Ayton extension, I really have no concern over that. Mikal is a little different but based on what Sarver has said himself, I expect he'll retain talent because that's how you win.

I don't think he minds too much if the team is good, the arena is full and we are getting playoff revenue. That's a big difference in money. It used to be like $1 million extra per home playoff game. I think that was an extra $10 million this year. But now the arena will start to be full, which makes a difference, especially after the last two years.

From 2005-08 we had young players so probably didn't need to go into luxury tax (though I can't remember when the luxury tax started). The biggest ridiculous thing he likely forced that was costly was trading Kurt Thomas.

....and selling our drafts picks and letting JJ walk-tho we did get Doris, who was good for a few years. If he didn't want to go into tax, fine then trade those picks for other picks down the road. We could've said to team X "hey we'll give our pick this year, if you give us yours 3 years from now"

Or he could've just drafted a Euro and stashed him for a few years.

Or he could've traded our low picks for multiple 2nd rounders down the road who don't have a guaranteed salary. Maybe we could've unearthed Draymond or Joker.

There's many other options besides what he did.

I almost mentioned selling draft picks.

The big JJ mistake was not extending him for 6/$50 and only offering 6/$45 the summer before.

Ultimately I didn't think they should sign Q (who later turned into KT who we had to spend 2 contracts to dump) and should keep their draft pick and take Iguodala in 2004...have a long term core of Nash, JJ, Iggy, Marion, Amare.

JJ contract would have been reasonable, the others young and not expensive yet at the time, except Nash.

The JJ S&T didn't end up working out too badly...got Diaw and Lopez out of it...would have been nice if that Hawks pick conveyed a year before but they got 3rd pick (Horford) and it was top 3 protected.

[TeamTragic]

Mikal first option on offense, wow. 75/4 , no way, though I'd like to see comments on GB that he should fire his agent, which was the case with Payne.

Flex saying 4/95 for Mikal

[bwgood77]

Mikal first option on offense, wow. 75/4 , no way, though I'd like to see comments on GB that he should fire his agent, which was the case with Payne.

Flex saying 4/95 for Mikal

Hey, that's what I said. A lot of people on the Trade Board thought he was worth the max if you had to go up that far...but at least 4/$100

[Slim Charless]

I don't think he minds too much if the team is good, the arena is full and we are getting playoff revenue. That's a big difference in money. It used to be like $1 million extra per home playoff game. I think that was an extra $10 million this year. But now the arena will start to be full, which makes a difference, especially after the last two years.

From 2005-08 we had young players so probably didn't need to go into luxury tax (though I can't remember when the luxury tax started). The biggest ridiculous thing he likely forced that was costly was trading Kurt Thomas.

....and selling our drafts picks and letting JJ walk-tho we did get Doris, who was good for a few years. If he didn't want to go into tax, fine then trade those picks for other picks down the road. We could've said to team X "hey we'll give our pick this year, if you give us yours 3 years from now"

Or he could've just drafted a Euro and stashed him for a few years.

Or he could've traded our low picks for multiple 2nd rounders down the road who don't have a guaranteed salary. Maybe we could've unearthed Draymond or Joker.

There's many other options besides what he did.

I almost mentioned selling draft picks.

The big JJ mistake was not extending him for 6/$50 and only offering 6/$45 the summer before.

Ultimately I didn't think they should sign Q (who later turned into KT who we had to spend 2 contracts to dump) and should keep their draft pick and take Iguodala in 2004...have a long term core of Nash, JJ, Iggy, Marion, Amare.

JJ contract would have been reasonable, the others young and not expensive yet at the time, except Nash.

The JJ S&T didn't end up working out too badly...got Diaw and Lopez out of it...would have been nice if that Hawks pick conveyed a year before but they got 3rd pick (Horford) and it was top 3 protected.

That draft pick conveying to Atlanta was 1 of the biggest letdown for this team. Imagine adding Noah or Conley to that Suns core? Oh well

[bwgood77]

....and selling our drafts picks and letting JJ walk-tho we did get Doris, who was good for a few years. If he didn't want to go into tax, fine then trade those picks for other picks down the road. We could've said to team X "hey we'll give our pick this year, if you give us yours 3 years from now"

Or he could've just drafted a Euro and stashed him for a few years.

Or he could've traded our low picks for multiple 2nd rounders down the road who don't have a guaranteed salary. Maybe we could've unearthed Draymond or Joker.

There's many other options besides what he did.

I almost mentioned selling draft picks.

The big JJ mistake was not extending him for 6/$50 and only offering 6/$45 the summer before.

Ultimately I didn't think they should sign Q (who later turned into KT who we had to spend 2 contracts to dump) and should keep their draft pick and take Iguodala in 2004...have a long term core of Nash, JJ, Iggy, Marion, Amare.

JJ contract would have been reasonable, the others young and not expensive yet at the time, except Nash.

The JJ S&T didn't end up working out too badly...got Diaw and Lopez out of it...would have been nice if that Hawks pick conveyed a year before but they got 3rd pick (Horford) and it was top 3 protected.

That draft pick conveying to Atlanta was 1 of the biggest letdown for this team. Imagine adding Noah or Conley to that Suns core? Oh well

Or Horford, if they had ended up with the 4th pick and he somehow slipped to 4, or if it was top 3 protected. Noah was really good though for awhile...great defender and very good passer for a big.

[Slim Charless]

I almost mentioned selling draft picks.

The big JJ mistake was not extending him for 6/$50 and only offering 6/$45 the summer before.

Ultimately I didn't think they should sign Q (who later turned into KT who we had to spend 2 contracts to dump) and should keep their draft pick and take Iguodala in 2004...have a long term core of Nash, JJ, Iggy, Marion, Amare.

JJ contract would have been reasonable, the others young and not expensive yet at the time, except Nash.

The JJ S&T didn't end up working out too badly...got Diaw and Lopez out of it...would have been nice if that Hawks pick conveyed a year before but they got 3rd pick (Horford) and it was top 3 protected.

That draft pick conveying to Atlanta was 1 of the biggest letdown for this team. Imagine adding Noah or Conley to that Suns core? Oh well

Or Horford, if they had ended up with the 4th pick and he somehow slipped to 4, or if it was top 3 protected. Noah was really good though for awhile...great defender and very good passer for a big.

Or him yes. Horford has had more longevity but his peak was never as good as Noah on those Derrick Rose Bulls teams. Didn't he get DPOTY while averaging like 6 dimes a game? Imagine that with Nash and STAT?

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2021/09/18/rockets-waive-tyler-bey-to-finalize-dante-exum-signing/

I know that many are probably exhausted of me making suggestions for our other open two way slot or for suggesting bringing in prospects for training camp. But I've been consistent in my interest/ belief that Tyler Bey could be a very solid 3rd rotation wing/ multipositional low usage defensive glue guy for our team. Now that he's been waived in interest of being able to sign Dante Exum.

We should at the very least offer him a training camp deal or bring jim in on an exhibit 10?

I think he'd slot really well in our 3rd rotation:
Payton/ Nader/ Bey/ Smith/ Kaminsky. Especially since he can guard 1-4 very well. He still projects as a very versatile low usage defensive playmaker. And elite defensive glue guy.
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/23/tyler-bey-scouting-report/

Awareness / Team Defense:
Very high-level team defender and defensive playmaker. Stunts, tags and recovers, nice job keeping hands out on and off ball for the most part, and he talks on defense. Great defensive playmaker who can make anticipatory reads, has very reactions off ball, and excellent timing protecting the rim and shooting the gap. Has a high defensive IQ, but his reaction time on the court is what really sets him apart – he processes things quickly on defense and is able to react immediately upon seeing what is happening. Covers ground very quickly. He’s always looking to help without losing his man – does a great job keeping his head on a swivel tracking of his man and the rest of the players / actions on the court. Nice job playing the middle / positional defense when he is off ball. Rotates well both along the perimeter / to the perimeter from the interior and making interior rotations.


Rim Protection:
High-level rim protector who makes smart reads off ball – you can constantly see him turning his head to his man / action to make sure he doesn’t let his man cut free, and when the time is right, moves to make the block. He might be a bit too reliant on his athleticism in that he waits until the last second to rotate, but it does not negatively impact his rim protection ability because he is not out of place to begin with and his reactions are just so quick to the ball / area he has to rotate to. Does a really nice job jumping with his hands straight up, avoiding the swipe down (most of the time) and the foul – in addition, his excellent body control helps him avoid fouls, as does his ability to move his arms in air to make the shot attempt difficult. Does not bite for many pump fakes, though occasional ones do get him. Uses his wingspan and standing reach well. His quick vertical pop and reaction time allow him to transition from moving laterally to protecting the rim against the ballhandler as he’s defending the drive. Really explodes vertically to protect the rim off two feet (full extension when necessary with his arms) from the weak side, and his quick load time lets him react and jump when under pressure from an incoming driver. However, Bey has to get stronger – he can get dislodged by players a bit and bigger players will be able to take advantage of him despite Bey being pretty physical around the basket. He should be able to add good weight without having athleticism diminished and he does not appear to have a high center of gravity, which will help with his ability to withstand bumps and attempted dislodges as he gets stronger.

Watch on YouTube

[bwgood77]

That draft pick conveying to Atlanta was 1 of the biggest letdown for this team. Imagine adding Noah or Conley to that Suns core? Oh well

Or Horford, if they had ended up with the 4th pick and he somehow slipped to 4, or if it was top 3 protected. Noah was really good though for awhile...great defender and very good passer for a big.

Or him yes. Horford has had more longevity but his peak was never as good as Noah on those Derrick Rose Bulls teams. Didn't he get DPOTY while averaging like 6 dimes a game? Imagine that with Nash and STAT?

That would have been great, though Horford seems like he would have been a better fit if he was playing with Amare and we wanted a guy with shooting range. They may have had him shooting 3s sooner.

But he was actually putting up better #s earlier than Noah. He was at nearly a double double in his 2nd year and like 14-15 ppg in his 3rd year 09-10.

He actually averaged more assists his first 4 or so years in the league than Noah too. Noah never averaged that many until like his 6th year.

And the year the Hawks added Horford they also got a lot better, which is why our pick we got from them was like 10th the next year.

[Slim Charless]

Or Horford, if they had ended up with the 4th pick and he somehow slipped to 4, or if it was top 3 protected. Noah was really good though for awhile...great defender and very good passer for a big.

Or him yes. Horford has had more longevity but his peak was never as good as Noah on those Derrick Rose Bulls teams. Didn't he get DPOTY while averaging like 6 dimes a game? Imagine that with Nash and STAT?

That would have been great, though Horford seems like he would have been a better fit if he was playing with Amare and we wanted a guy with shooting range. They may have had him shooting 3s sooner.

But he was actually putting up better #s earlier than Noah. He was at nearly a double double in his 2nd year and like 14-15 ppg in his 3rd year 09-10.

He actually averaged more assists his first 4 or so years in the league than Noah too. Noah never averaged that many until like his 6th year.

And the year the Hawks added Horford they also got a lot better, which is why our pick we got from them was like 10th the next year.

Maybe. Guess I don't remember him as well since those Hawks teams were so unforgettable. He would've been fine too. Depends on who jumped into that 3rd pick slot I guess to if he's available.

Who was running the team then? Was Kerr our GM by then, I know we had Pringles but can't remember who the top guy was.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Hopefully Bridges can become an All-Star and make the contract look good - Siakam, Middleton, Leonard type progression.

[Saberestar]

I would be OK with Tyler Bey on a two-way contract, I mean it, but his problem is that he is not skilled enough with the ball in his hands and plays as a PF being small for that position.

He is physically like Mikal Bridges. 6'6 ( I don't give a **** about his height on heels), 7'1 wingspan and around 215 lbs. That size is nice to play SG/SF, but not PF even on this era.

Crowder is 30 pounds heavier and way more stronger and experienced so he can deal with bigger players than him. Bey needs to improve his ball handling and perimeter skills to have a career in the NBA. We will see.

[bwgood77]

Or him yes. Horford has had more longevity but his peak was never as good as Noah on those Derrick Rose Bulls teams. Didn't he get DPOTY while averaging like 6 dimes a game? Imagine that with Nash and STAT?

That would have been great, though Horford seems like he would have been a better fit if he was playing with Amare and we wanted a guy with shooting range. They may have had him shooting 3s sooner.

But he was actually putting up better #s earlier than Noah. He was at nearly a double double in his 2nd year and like 14-15 ppg in his 3rd year 09-10.

He actually averaged more assists his first 4 or so years in the league than Noah too. Noah never averaged that many until like his 6th year.

And the year the Hawks added Horford they also got a lot better, which is why our pick we got from them was like 10th the next year.

Maybe. Guess I don't remember him as well since those Hawks teams were so unforgettable. He would've been fine too. Depends on who jumped into that 3rd pick slot I guess to if he's available.

Who was running the team then? Was Kerr our GM by then, I know we had Pringles but can't remember who the top guy was.

Well the trade I believe was Bryan Colangelo, so that is what counts...

[Ghost of Kleine]

I would be OK with Tyler Bey on a two-way contract, I mean it, but his problem is that he is not skilled enough with the ball in his hands and plays as a PF being small for that position.

He is physically like Mikal Bridges. 6'6 ( I don't give a **** about his height on heels), 7'1 wingspan and around 215 lbs. That size is nice to play SG/SF, but not PF even on this era.

Crowder is 30 pounds heavier and way more stronger and experienced so he can deal with bigger players than him. Bey needs to improve his ball handling and perimeter skills to have a career in the NBA. We will see.

True.
For Bey I would envision a ultra disruptive multipositional defensive wing ( 2/3) Than can back up Bridges once Crowder leaves and Cam takes over. I envision something along these lines post Paul and post Crowder/ Saric possibly.

Starters-
Post Paul option? / Booker / Bridges/ Cam/ Ayton.
2nd unit-
Payne/ Shamet/ Bey/ Cam/ Smith or McGee?
* but I like the potential offensive/ defensive balance of:
Payne- Offense.
Shamet- Offense.
Bey- Defense.
Cam- Offense.
McGee- ( or Smith) Defense. I would see Bey in a lesser version of Bridges role as a defensive wing between Shamets' and Johnson's offense. I also think at worst he could emulate what Andre Roberson brought to the Thunder as a lockdown perimeter defender.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=andre-roberson--tyler-bey

But better offensively, And who can also hit his free throws and threes whilst being an effective low usage glue guy to the benefit of Shamets' and Johnson's necessary increased usage post Crowder/ Saric? I would look to have him ( currently) play a ( poor man's Bridges) defensive role, Or perhaps occasionally/ situationally a lesser version of a slightly bigger Matisse Thybulle at the 2/3 if needed defensively.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=matisse-thybulle--tyler-bey
( might be a decent upside projection)?


Just another cheap multipositional option for coach Monty to have available for various lineups. And it'd also be nice to have another multipositional lockdowndefensive playmaker off the bench to allow Payne/ Shamet/ Johnsongo off offensively!

[bwgood77]

Wonder why Bey keeps getting cut. These teams have solid depth?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Wonder why Bey keeps getting cut. These teams have solid depth?

Well if I read it correctly, The article infers something along the lines of clearing salary to resign exum to his new contract with escalating incentives. But admittedly, I glanced through rather quickly. So hopefully I didn't miss anything of note. It seems that Dallas did waive him due to their current wing depth.

- Tim Hardaway Jr/ Dorian Finney Smith/ Josh Green/ Sterling Brown/ Frank Nitkilina/ Feron Hunt that are all 2/3s' for them. So they had a plethora of wings.

With Chicago, They have Demarr Derozan/ Derrick Jones Jr/ Troy Brown Jr/ Patrick Williams/ Stanley Johnson/ Alize Johnson.

So both teams were/ are fairly deep with veteran wings and are trying to really compete, So they likely waived him rather than invest (positionally) in any time needed for develop him to his full potential? I still think he could still be a really under the radar super cheap energizing " glue guy" defensive playmaker for some team that is just willing to give him some time and development.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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