Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[everdiso]

So, after so many pages of discussion, is there a verdict on the Celtics being a treadmill team?

It’s difficult to say how the Celtics are a treadmill team with their blue chip prospects but they’re still overhyped by the National media. I’m not sure why people are necessarily comparing them to us. They started rebuilding when they traded Pierce and Garnett. We just started rebuilding last year. Were way behind in that arc of development.

Not that tough - they've blown through their huge stockpile of picks and have 4 guys to show for it, all in the 23-27 age range. 1 looks like a perennial allstar but not an mvp type. Another looks looks like a solid complementary starter. The 3rd looks like a flawed starter. The 4th so far looks like a good bench tweener. They're all capped out now, no other young pieces to hope for impact from, and likely too good to tank.

[everdiso]

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So DPM the most trusted of all the metrics.

Here's how the raps and celts compare in DPM (mostly in order of mpg):

Siakam 1.9 (#40) --- Tatum 3.0 (#19)
VanVleet 1.7 ----- Brown 1.5
Anunoby 1.7 ----- Smart 1.5
Dragic -0.6 -------- Schroder -1.3
Trent -2.1 ---------- Richardson -1.5

Birch -0.1 ---------- Horford -1.9
Boucher 1.0 ------ Kanter 0.9
Barnes --- ---------- Williams 1.6

Flynn -1.6 ---------- Pritchard -0.6
Achiuwa -3.2 ----- Nesmith -2.4
Watanabe -1.3 --- Hernangomez -1.6
Mykhailuk -2.0 --- GWilliams -2.1
Bonga 0.0 ---------- Parker -0.2
Gillespie -2.6 ----- Langford -2.3
Dekker ---- ---------- Fernando -2.1

Those numbers look pretty similar, with the one outlier being Tatum. I'm not sure how much of a positive that is for them exactly.

If playing next to a very good player, #19 in the league, doesn't buoy other teammates' numbers, what will?

Outside of four guys: Tatum, Brown, Smart & Williams, I don't see much worth commenting on for them.

That being said, I'm higher on Barnes, Flynn, Achiuwa, Trent and Boucher than any guy not named above on the Celtics.

I really feel that given all of their draft capital, they should easily be further ahead than us. Instead, they seem to be on par or slightly behind us. The mismanagement of assets for their franchise has to be disheartening for their fans. They *should* be in full compete mode, with young studs and in-prime vets. Instead, they missed the boat with Kyrie, misjudged Kemba and missed Horford's window.

Lani@LaniStern.com

It's amazing how poorly ajnge did with that huge stockpile of picks.

The two 3rd overalls he didn't waste, but didn't get an MVP type either. His 6th overall he turned into a borderline starter. The rest he wasted. Maybe there's some hope Rob Williams finally becomes more than a 7th or 8th man but he's 24 now and has never played even 20mpg.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

So, after so many pages of discussion, is there a verdict on the Celtics being a treadmill team?

It’s difficult to say how the Celtics are a treadmill team with their blue chip prospects but they’re still overhyped by the National media. I’m not sure why people are necessarily comparing them to us. They started rebuilding when they traded Pierce and Garnett. We just started rebuilding last year. Were way behind in that arc of development.

Not that tough - they've blown through their huge stockpile of picks and have 4 guys to show for it, all in the 23-27 age range. 1 looks like a perennial allstar but not an mvp type. Another looks looks like a solid complementary starter. The 3rd looks like a flawed starter. The 4th so far looks like a good bench tweener. They're all capped out now, no other young pieces to hope for impact from, and likely too good to tank.

Jaylen brown is more than a complementary starter. No need to hate. All they need is one more star and they climb up into the upper tier. They have trade assets and also have max cap space coming up. They have the opportunity to make moves. Bigger question is Brad Stevens. Is he up to the task

[everdiso]

It’s difficult to say how the Celtics are a treadmill team with their blue chip prospects but they’re still overhyped by the National media. I’m not sure why people are necessarily comparing them to us. They started rebuilding when they traded Pierce and Garnett. We just started rebuilding last year. Were way behind in that arc of development.

Not that tough - they've blown through their huge stockpile of picks and have 4 guys to show for it, all in the 23-27 age range. 1 looks like a perennial allstar but not an mvp type. Another looks looks like a solid complementary starter. The 3rd looks like a flawed starter. The 4th so far looks like a good bench tweener. They're all capped out now, no other young pieces to hope for impact from, and likely too good to tank.

Jaylen brown is more than a complementary starter. No need to hate. All they need is one more star and they climb up into the upper tier. They have trade assets and also have max cap space coming up. They have the opportunity to make moves. Bigger question is Brad Stevens. Is he up to the task

He's a complementary starter. No chance he could be a #1 option.

They don't have any trade assets other than the 4 guys I mentioned.

And they don't have max capspace coming up.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Not that tough - they've blown through their huge stockpile of picks and have 4 guys to show for it, all in the 23-27 age range. 1 looks like a perennial allstar but not an mvp type. Another looks looks like a solid complementary starter. The 3rd looks like a flawed starter. The 4th so far looks like a good bench tweener. They're all capped out now, no other young pieces to hope for impact from, and likely too good to tank.

Jaylen brown is more than a complementary starter. No need to hate. All they need is one more star and they climb up into the upper tier. They have trade assets and also have max cap space coming up. They have the opportunity to make moves. Bigger question is Brad Stevens. Is he up to the task

He's a complementary starter. No chance he could be a #1 option.

They don't have any trade assets other than the 4 guys I mentioned.

And they don't have max capspace coming up.

Brown almost averaged 25 ppg last year. lol at 'complementary starter'.
They have capspace coming up in a couple of years.
Value of players always up for debate.
Celtics are not a contender but they're closer to the championship than we are.
Also putting down the Celtics doesn't make the Raptors look better btw.

[everdiso]

Jaylen brown is more than a complementary starter. No need to hate. All they need is one more star and they climb up into the upper tier. They have trade assets and also have max cap space coming up. They have the opportunity to make moves. Bigger question is Brad Stevens. Is he up to the task

He's a complementary starter. No chance he could be a #1 option.

They don't have any trade assets other than the 4 guys I mentioned.

And they don't have max capspace coming up.

Brown almost averaged 25 ppg last year. lol at 'complementary starter'.
They have capspace coming up in a couple of years.
Value of players always up for debate.
Celtics are not a contender but they're closer to the championship than we are.
Also putting down the Celtics doesn't make the Raptors look better btw.

He's a complementary player. Scoring 24ppg as an off-ball player on a .500 team doesn't change that.

They are capped out for years.

Bigging up the Celtics doesn't make them better than they are - even though the media has tried their best.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

He's a complementary starter. No chance he could be a #1 option.

They don't have any trade assets other than the 4 guys I mentioned.

And they don't have max capspace coming up.

Brown almost averaged 25 ppg last year. lol at 'complementary starter'.
They have capspace coming up in a couple of years.
Value of players always up for debate.
Celtics are not a contender but they're closer to the championship than we are.
Also putting down the Celtics doesn't make the Raptors look better btw.

He's a complementary player. Scoring 24ppg as an off-ball player on a .500 team doesn't change that.

They are capped out for years.

Bigging up the Celtics doesn't make them better than they are - even though the media has tried their best.

so scoring 25 ppg as on OFF BALL SCORER is a LESSER accomplishment?
LOL

[ash_k]

During summer league, just last month, on national TV/ESPN, you watched and heard the leader Fred Van Vleet saying "we were 4th seed until COVID hit us" thus very confident about the level of the team.

So you saw and heard FVV saying that, but many are still out here chatting about tanking/rebuilding. Try to come back to reality a little bit and don't waste time looking at 2022 Mock drafts.

Your tears are gonna taste amazing once your realize we are retooling/building and FVV/Pascal aren't long term core pieces.

tasting pretty good right now

[Hero_Panda]

When Masai said "Growing Pains", I thought it would last a season or two, and not the first 3 months of this season

Said in the beginning the best case, long shot scenario is the 6th seed, and that if they're in the 7-10 range I rather the team tank rather than participate in the play-in. Now this team could actually net a top-4 seed? I have no words beyond other than a Thank You for the great seasons under the Masai era.

[Marty_Budda]

During summer league, just last month, on national TV/ESPN, you watched and heard the leader Fred Van Vleet saying "we were 4th seed until COVID hit us" thus very confident about the level of the team.

So you saw and heard FVV saying that, but many are still out here chatting about tanking/rebuilding. Try to come back to reality a little bit and don't waste time looking at 2022 Mock drafts.

Your tears are gonna taste amazing once your realize we are retooling/building and FVV/Pascal aren't long term core pieces.

tasting pretty good right now

Crazy how easily even our own fans write our team off after 1 bad year in Tampa. All in the hopes for a lotto pick lmao

[WuTang_OG]

Just like in 13/14, Masai tempered expectations then blew them out of the water.

Don't think people realize how hard this is

[mdenny]

Your tears are gonna taste amazing once your realize we are retooling/building and FVV/Pascal aren't long term core pieces.

tasting pretty good right now

Crazy how easily even our own fans write our team off after 1 bad year in Tampa. All in the hopes for a lotto pick lmao

Lol there is a strong correlation in this thread between self-assurance and being wrong.

[Young Moosehead]

tasting pretty good right now

Crazy how easily even our own fans write our team off after 1 bad year in Tampa. All in the hopes for a lotto pick lmao

Lol there is a strong correlation in this thread between self-assurance and being wrong.

A Dunning-Kruger thread?

[Madhouse]

well, there were growing pains. Just not for very long.

[Ref_from_hell]

Some really horrendous takes in this thread

[Zeno]

well, there were growing pains. Just not for very long.

For sure, but they will be back too. I am very happy with what the team has achieved and how they have performed but it won't all be forward from here.

[Madhouse]

well, there were growing pains. Just not for very long.

For sure, but they will be back too. I am very happy with what the team has achieved and how they have performed but it won't all be forward from here.

No, ebbs and flows are expected but relatively speaking when you win 46-48 games in the season you were expected to win 36 and you are 30-15 in last 45, those growing pains like most envisioned are not even there anymore.

[Zeno]

well, there were growing pains. Just not for very long.

For sure, but they will be back too. I am very happy with what the team has achieved and how they have performed but it won't all be forward from here.

No, ebbs and flows are expected but relatively speaking when you win 46-48 games in the season you were expected to win 36 and you are 30-15 in last 45, those growing pains like most envisioned are not even there anymore.

Taking the end result as a whole, sure. But even last night, they had to pull Barnes to start the 2nd half for passivity as much as matchup. The consistency of team's performance overall is not there even if the results have been pretty consistently good. So basically the growing pains are still there just being overcome most of the time, which is amazing, don't get me wrong.

[OakleyDokely]

The growing pains were when Barnes grew from 6'8 to 6'10

[Parataxis]

Your tears are gonna taste amazing once your realize we are retooling/building and FVV/Pascal aren't long term core pieces.

tasting pretty good right now

Crazy how easily even our own fans write our team off after 1 bad year in Tampa. All in the hopes for a lotto pick lmao

Nobody wants to seem like too much of a homer, so we all set our expectations to what we feel people think is 'realistic'.

Personally, I thought that losing Lowry was going to hit us a lot harder than it did.