OT: Giants 2021

shazam_guy · Post #101 » by **shazam_guy** » Mon Sep 6, 2021 12:52 am

Webb reminds me more than a little of Matt Cain -- namely, his fastball is heavy and has movement. As he picks up more control, he gets better and better.

shazam_guy · Post #102 » by **shazam_guy** » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:15 pm

So do people only like to complain? When the Gs lost a few games in a row, people were posting. Now they've won nine straight, clinched the playoffs, and...crickets.

Me, I haven't enjoyed a season so much in a long time, maybe not since 2010, which was also a surprise. (Not that I didn't love 2012 and 2014.) Before that, I might have to go back to the late 1980s, the Clark-Thompson-Mitchell-Brenly teams, for this much unexpected pleasure.

tarantism · Post #103 » by **tarantism** » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:05 pm

Well that one was fun. Two games up on LA with 14 to go!

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wco81 · Post #104 » by **wco81** » Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:27 pm

They're winning enough to stay on top but it's been offense, especially timely hits, than starting pitching.

They haven't gotten reliable starting pitching in the past month other than Webb.

If they're going to make waves in the playoffs, it will have to be relievers and hitting.

Samurai · Post #105 » by **Samurai** » Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:05 pm

The Dodgers have the feel of a high-powered muscle car racing to the finish line when you see guys like Buehler, Scherzer, Urias and Kershaw waiting to take the ball. Other than Webb, the Giants give the impression of a car running on fumes just hoping the race will end soon before their lead is gone. Not having a reliable starter outside of Webb and not having a playoff-caliber closer scares me. Even if it feels like we are doing it with smoke and mirrors, I am still rooting for us to hang on and finish first. Put the Dodgers in a one-game playoff where anything can happen.

wco81 · Post #106 » by **wco81** » Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:18 pm

I think the overall sense is that Giants are playing with house money.

They weren't expect to contend for the division, let alone the best record in the MLB. Maybe get one of the WC spots but that's about it.

Again, Zaidi deserves a chance to execute his longer-term vision, which means getting big contracts off the books and building up the farm system.

So he probably thinks this season is way ahead of schedule and not the roster which will sustain success for the franchise. So it's defensible not to trade top prospects for rentals.

But no guarantee they will be in this position again (leading the division with two weeks left in the season vs. a juggernaut with a much more expensive roster) even in a couple of years when the roster will be more along the lines of the way Zaidi envisioned it. Those prospects he didn't trade may not turn out to be as good players as those he might have been able to acquire.

shazam_guy · Post #107 » by **shazam_guy** » Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:24 pm

Also, whether you agree with what Zaidi's doing this year or not, a lot of the best talent in the SF minor league system is just starting to show itself -- it usually takes a year or two post-draft to know what a player will be like as a pro -- so he's not in a hurry to get rid of someone who might turn out to be great. I'm patient. It would have been nice to have Kimbrel or another starter this year, but I'm also excited to see what Bishop and Luciano and the rest turn out to be.

wco81 · Post #108 » by **wco81** » Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:57 pm

It's ridiculous how the trade for Scherzer is turning out. Dodgers have won his first 9 starts and he's like to win the Cy Young.

Instead, the reigning World Series champions have pulled one of the biggest trade deadline blockbusters in recent memory. Here's a look at the full, six-player deal:

Dodgers get: RHP Max Scherzer, SS Trea Turner
Nationals get: C Keibert Ruiz, RHP Josiah Gray, OF Donovan Casey, RHP Gerardo Carrillo

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/max-scherzer-trade-dodgers-finalize-blockbuster-deal-for-nationals-ace-and-trea-turner/

Ruiz is ranked #19 in the MLB.com top prospect list.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/top100/

The highest Dodger prospect is Diego Cartaya, another catcher at #29.

For comparison the Giants have Luciano at #5, Bart at #16, Matos an OF at #78 and Ramos at #81.

Gray has potential but since the trade, he's got a 6.15 ERA for the Nationals. He doesn't show up on any prospects list so I guess at age 23, he's considered a major leaguer. But in 53 innings pitched in the ML, his ERA is 6.24 and 1.44 WHIP.

I guess they're going by arm potential.

It probably would have taken Bart and maybe one or two other lower prospects.

Scherzer is 37, has a lot of money coming and would be looking for a big contract. Bart is 24 but with Posey signing an extension, who knows when he'll become starter. He should be playing long after Scherzer's career is over, unless he never pans out and is out of the league before he's 30.

Would have been expensive but they'd have kept them off the Dodgers. The real question is what kind of contract the Dodgers give him and whether he continues to pitch so effectively at his age.

tarantism · Post #109 » by **tarantism** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:42 am

wco81 wrote:It's ridiculous how the trade for Scherzer is turning out. Dodgers have won his first 9 starts and he's like to win the Cy Young.

Instead, the reigning World Series champions have pulled one of the biggest trade deadline blockbusters in recent memory. Here's a look at the full, six-player deal:

Dodgers get: RHP Max Scherzer, SS Trea Turner
Nationals get: C Keibert Ruiz, RHP Josiah Gray, OF Donovan Casey, RHP Gerardo Carrillo

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/max-scherzer-trade-dodgers-finalize-blockbuster-deal-for-nationals-ace-and-trea-turner/

Ruiz is ranked #19 in the MLB.com top prospect list.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/top100/

The highest Dodger prospect is Diego Cartaya, another catcher at #29.

For comparison the Giants have Luciano at #5, Bart at #16, Matos an OF at #78 and Ramos at #81.

Gray has potential but since the trade, he's got a 6.15 ERA for the Nationals. He doesn't show up on any prospects list so I guess at age 23, he's considered a major leaguer. But in 53 innings pitched in the ML, his ERA is 6.24 and 1.44 WHIP.

I guess they're going by arm potential.

It probably would have taken Bart and maybe one or two other lower prospects.

Scherzer is 37, has a lot of money coming and would be looking for a big contract. Bart is 24 but with Posey signing an extension, who knows when he'll become starter. He should be playing long after Scherzer's career is over, unless he never pans out and is out of the league before he's 30.

Would have been expensive but they'd have kept them off the Dodgers. The real question is what kind of contract the Dodgers give him and whether he continues to pitch so effectively at his age.

Well, the Giants also have that other catcher prospect in the pipeline who's early returns have looked good. Makes me feel like Bart is a little more expendable, especially because I believe he hasn't had the greatest season in AAA, though admittedly I haven't been following closely.

Questions up and down the Giants rotation since the all star break have really thrown the inability to add a reliable arm into sharp relief. I still don't know if they could have gotten Scherzer, and I trust Zaidi, but it would have been nice to add somebody.

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shazam_guy · Post #110 » by **shazam_guy** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:53 am

I don't think any fan would have objected to an additional arm or two (unless they cost too much in prospects). Still, Zaidi churned three good starters already out of basically nothing, so maybe he has his eye on a couple more we can pick up who've stalled elsewhere.

Meanwhile, we have McGee who has to be threatened into throwing a breaking ball, and Doval who went off his 100 mile an hour fastball and just didn't want to throw it. Pitchers are weird animals.

Scoots1994 · Post #111 » by **Scoots1994** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:55 pm

The Giants are playing great. Considering they are spending a whole team's less salary than the Dodgers.

shazam_guy · Post #112 » by **shazam_guy** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:49 pm

The Dodgers are still benefiting from Zaidi's tenure as well. (Witness Max Muncy.) That and all the money they can throw at people is a tough combination, but they won't have Zaidi in the future, and they're not going to be able to keep all those expensive players past the next round of contracts. We're playing a long game, and that makes sense.

wco81 · Post #113 » by **wco81** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:06 pm

I think this team has massively overachieved, doing it with a lot of cast offs from other teams.

I don't think Zaidi had plans to keep a lot of these players long term, such as some of the starting pitchers. He might still try to extend Gausman and Wood for short contracts.

He already gave Posey and Crawford short extensions, might do the same for Belt, who's having his best year for HRs. I'm not sure who would take over 1B if Belt wasn't brought back. I don't know that they have prospects who could supply some power.

The other big UFA would be Bryant, who's hit .284, 7 HRs in 148 ABs since the trade -- but with 37 strikeouts! Not bad production but probably not worth the kind of contract Bryant would want.

So while they're not suppose to win this year, it's so tantalizing, with still the best record in baseball. Another quality starter and closer would make them much more formidable for the post-season.

tarantism · Post #114 » by **tarantism** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:36 pm

Put me firmly in the re-sign Bryant camp. Seems like he wants to be here, and he's a great player to bridge the gap while the old guys age out and the young guys get ready to go. Plus he can play all over the field.

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wco81 · Post #115 » by **wco81** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:41 pm

With his agent, he's going to want something like over $30 million a year for 10 years. He's about to turn 30.

He's from Vegas, went to college at San Diego State. Unless he really wants to give a steep discount, or he doesn't find much of a market, he's going to look for way more than the Giants would pay him.

tarantism · Post #116 » by **tarantism** » Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:46 pm

wco81 wrote:With his agent, he's going to want something like over $30 million a year for 10 years. He's about to turn 30.

He's from Vegas, went to college at San Diego State. Unless he really wants to give a steep discount, or he doesn't find much of a market, he's going to look for way more than the Giants would pay him.

I've read 200m for 8 years, so 25m/year that takes him into his age 37 season. Maybe steep. A lot depends on what he does with the postseason. If he's a key contributor then the price will be steep but we'll be compelled to sign him I think.

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SFrush · Post #117 » by **SFrush** » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:45 am

Another game winning hit for Lamonte Wade Jr. He's had atleast one against every team in the NL West.

I'm not overpaying Gausman or Kris Bryant. Nothing against them but both are very replaceable.

wco81 · Post #118 » by **wco81** » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:43 pm

If they tie after 162 games, they play one game in SF to determine the division winner.

Loser probably plays the Cards, who are the hottest team in baseball now.

shazam_guy · Post #119 » by **shazam_guy** » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:29 pm

I think Zaidi has decided that big-time pitchers are flashy gets, but that in reality starting pitchers are like running backs in the NFL (as the 49ers have done for years now) -- something you can mostly fill with other team's castoffs who just need better coaching/mechanics/a chance/etc.

If that is the case, it seems unlikely we'll splash out on too many big-name contracts, especially for pitching. Zaidi's shown he can put together a winning team with less money and fewer major stars -- as opposed to a team like the Angels, who keep signing big stars and still can't win -- so we'll probably keep seeing that sort of approach. I too would love to have seen the Giants get someone like Scherzer, but I'm also happy to leave the Giants in the "seem to know what they're doing, I'll stop worrying" category.

As I've often said, I love NBA championships, Super Bowl wins, and Series wins, but what I mainly want is a fun team that's competitive. If they keep giving me that, I'm okay.

watch1958 · Post #120 » by **watch1958** » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:48 pm

shazam_guy wrote:I think Zaidi has decided that big-time pitchers are flashy gets, but that in reality starting pitchers are like running backs in the NFL (as the 49ers have done for years now) -- something you can mostly fill with other team's castoffs who just need better coaching/mechanics/a chance/etc.

If that is the case, it seems unlikely we'll splash out on too many big-name contracts, especially for pitching. Zaidi's shown he can put together a winning team with less money and fewer major stars -- as opposed to a team like the Angels, who keep signing big stars and still can't win -- so we'll probably keep seeing that sort of approach. I too would love to have seen the Giants get someone like Scherzer, but I'm also happy to leave the Giants in the "seem to know what they're doing, I'll stop worrying" category.

As I've often said, I love NBA championships, Super Bowl wins, and Series wins, but what I mainly want is a fun team that's competitive. If they keep giving me that, I'm okay.

In general, I like Zaidi’s approach.

For the regular season.

Having the stud pitcher in the post-season can make or break a team. And evaluating those guys for the regular season vs. the playoffs is a crapshoot.

E.g., Bumgarner vs. Kershaw