WWE General Discussion II

[Dominator83]

It's hard to believe that people that were born in 2002 are old enough to drive, vote, serve the army etc.
There's probably a whole younger generation that only knows the "fun loving" version of the Plane Ride from Hell
that was on Story Time on the WWE Network where the air hostesses were portrayed as giggling and wanting
Ric Flair. For me it was so long ago I forgot some stuff and I didn't know Flair actually forced one of them in the
back where they couldn't move and forced her hand to grab it.

Judging the reaction from people Tommy Dreamer and Jim Ross's comments really were the icing on the cake. Jim
Ross admitting he didn't face any consequences because he's Ric Flair exposed the double standard that people
always suspect. People also had never heard from the victim before and guys like RVD and Justin Credible explaining
how bad it was kind of makes you realize it was worse then you even think.

Then Friday morning I'm sure there were a lot of people like me that were confused as to why Ric Flair, Tommy Dreamer,
Dustin Runnels and Brock Lesnar were randomly trending... And what happens when I clicked on Ric Flairs name? I see
tweets of videos of Teddy Long telling a story of Flair dropping an N-Bomb on him, videos of Shane Douglas talking about
how Flair used to do this all the time and saw him whip his dick out in front of kids, tweets of Bam Bam Bigelow
talking about other bad stuff he did etc etc. If you aren't a Wrestling fan and know of Ric Flair and clicked on his
name you probably had no idea about most of that stuff.

Hogan said what he said in 2004 and it came to light in 2015 and he got cancelled for 3 years. Velveteen Dream and
Tessa Blanchard as well as Hogan did lesser stuff then Flair and only have one incident against them and got cancelled
yet Flair who has a history of it has gotten a free pass because he's Ric Flair? and all these years he gets to be loved
and respected and continue to make a living in the industry?

For me my problem is with the hypocrisy of the cancel culture and how people pick and choose who gets to suffer
and who gets a free pass. And then nobody can seem to agree whether it's wrestling or athletes or Hollywood what
indeed should be the penalty for sexual assault, domestic violence and racist comments? the people that are pro
cancellation on this tend to paint the people that want to give the people 2nd chances as monsters or part of the problem.

I agree that Flair should have served his time, after that incident. I don't find what he did to be funny or light. Definitely something I would never do. I just think it's a slippery slope to start cancelling guys for incidents that were known 20 years ago. If that's the case then lots of people will be next!

[prolific passer]

2002 was a rough year for Flair. Not only because of the plane ride from hell but also Bishoff and Hogan came into the wwe and he attacked Bischoff and was planning on attacking Hogan but Vince asked him not to and he didn't get punished for that.

[jakecronus8]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists. The basic answer is you reap what you sew.

Flair is not going to get booked anymore and it’s not because of cancel culture. It’s because those individual companies are going to make decisions based on what’s best for their image and bottom line. If something from your past surfaces and it costs you opportunities you can’t blame the backlash on anyone but yourself. There’s no statute of limitations.

Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted a child more than 30 years ago and it just now came to light as the child, now grown and ready to share his story came out with it. The fact that Spacey will never see another acting role is a result of his actions and not a Twitter mob as some would like to believe.

[improper]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists.

For the most part, I agree with you.

There are certain instances that I would consider cancel culture, though, like when right wing twitter trolls dug up fifteen year old dumb jokes from James Gunn and got him fired by Disney from the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise.

That, to me, is a much different situation than what Spacey did, or what Flair has done. Gunn's comments were certainly stupid, and an obvious attempt by a young guy to be edgy, but at the end of the day they were fifteen years old and obviously didn't reflect who Gunn was when the comments were dug up. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed and he got his job back after the cast threatening to quit, but that was an instance that never should have happened in the first place. A simple apology should have been enough.

Obviously when we are dealing with rape, sexual assault, or other actual crimes, how long ago they were doesn't really matter. But I do oppose digging up tweets from over a decade ago to cost someone their job, provided they aren't still posting that kind of nonsense today.

[Ruzious]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists. The basic answer is you reap what you sew.

Flair is not going to get booked anymore and it’s not because of cancel culture. It’s because those individual companies are going to make decisions based on what’s best for their image and bottom line. If something from your past surfaces and it costs you opportunities you can’t blame the backlash on anyone but yourself. There’s no statute of limitations.

Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted a child more than 30 years ago and it just now came to light as the child, now grown and ready to share his story came out with it. The fact that Spacey will never see another acting role is a result of his actions and not a Twitter mob as some would like to believe.

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

[Stanford]

I don't think "cancel culture" is a label you can apply to any negative movement against an individual. I don't think it's a useful term, at least in the way that Trump's kids use it, but I do think something like it could apply to an actual phenomenon. There is an instinct online, clearly appealing to a genuine hunger in people, to rally excessively around any negative story about a celebrity or quasi-celebrity in an unhealthy way. Does this apply in the case of Ric Flair? On its face, no. Pretty terrible thing to do to a woman at her job.

But I'm sympathetic to a certain criticism of the show's approach, or at least concerned about where it might go. I would hate for the objective of the show to go from telling interesting stories to generating outrage online. That, as a model for producing television, will eventually lead to the TV equivalent of combing through someone's tweets for a dumb joke they made when they were 16. Sexual assault is one thing, offense is another. Often, the latter appeals to the same instinct I mentioned above. Hopefully the show doesn't make it a priority to spark outrage on every episode.

[jakecronus8]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists.

For the most part, I agree with you.

There are certain instances that I would consider cancel culture, though, like when right wing twitter trolls dug up fifteen year old dumb jokes from James Gunn and got him fired by Disney from the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise.

That, to me, is a much different situation than what Spacey did, or what Flair has done. Gunn's comments were certainly stupid, and an obvious attempt by a young guy to be edgy, but at the end of the day they were fifteen years old and obviously didn't reflect who Gunn was when the comments were dug up. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed and he got his job back after the cast threatening to quit, but that was an instance that never should have happened in the first place. A simple apology should have been enough.

Obviously when we are dealing with rape, sexual assault, or other actual crimes, how long ago they were doesn't really matter. But I do oppose digging up tweets from over a decade ago to cost someone their job, provided they aren't still posting that kind of nonsense today.

This is a good post. I guess for me it’s not so much cancel culture as it is witch hunts. The Gunn example was a good one. Bad jokes in poor taste is one aspect that I think someone should be able to come back from so long as there is some contrition from the guilty party. There’s shades of grey to these issues but the loudest don’t seem to understand that.

A huge problem though is some people are tone deaf and/or don’t understand the situations. As an example, I’m a Milwaukee Brewers fan. They have a lights out closer named Josh Hader who had old tweets exposed from when he was in high school that he used racial slurs in on the eve of his first all star game appearance. Without context and without shades of grey, people were calling for his release etc., not knowing that he was quoting rap lyrics. He apologized with the full support of his team and that should’ve been the end of it. Unfortunately, the tone deaf fans gave him a standing ovation in his next home appearance, completely oblivious to the optics that provided.

[Dominator83]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists. The basic answer is you reap what you sew.

Flair is not going to get booked anymore and it’s not because of cancel culture. It’s because those individual companies are going to make decisions based on what’s best for their image and bottom line. If something from your past surfaces and it costs you opportunities you can’t blame the backlash on anyone but yourself. There’s no statute of limitations.

Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted a child more than 30 years ago and it just now came to light as the child, now grown and ready to share his story came out with it. The fact that Spacey will never see another acting role is a result of his actions and not a Twitter mob as some would like to believe.

So we're gonna compare something that while old, is brand new with Spacey, to Flair where it's both old and not new?

I'm fine with Flair paying a price, but this stuff sets a pretty rough precident when we're just now cancelling guys for something that's 20 years old and was already a known incident.

[jakecronus8]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists. The basic answer is you reap what you sew.

Flair is not going to get booked anymore and it’s not because of cancel culture. It’s because those individual companies are going to make decisions based on what’s best for their image and bottom line. If something from your past surfaces and it costs you opportunities you can’t blame the backlash on anyone but yourself. There’s no statute of limitations.

Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted a child more than 30 years ago and it just now came to light as the child, now grown and ready to share his story came out with it. The fact that Spacey will never see another acting role is a result of his actions and not a Twitter mob as some would like to believe.

So we're gonna compare something that while old, is brand new with Spacey, to Flair where it's both old and not new?

I'm fine with Flair paying a price, but this stuff sets a pretty rough precident when we're just now cancelling guys for something that's 20 years old and was already a known incident.

It wasn’t really known. If it was this wouldn’t have blown up. I myself was a pretty big flair fan and had heard many stories about this incident but never to that level of detail.

ETA: while some may not like it, the fact is there is nothing stopping Flair from getting bookings. Each individual promotion will make decisions based on what’s best for their business. Now that this is known on a grander scale they are better off without booking him. At the root of it all is Flair’s actions.

[Texas Chuck]

Didn't realize sexual assault was cool as long as it happened a long time ago....

And I'm all for 2nd chances and grace and redemption, but its clear the victim is still dealing with the fallout from this and Flair has made zero attempt to make amends or even apologize.

And I'm supposed to lose sleep over Flair losing an endorsement and maybe a couple of appearances with a wrestling promotion?

What you are seeing are consequences, not a canceling. And yes that difference is meaningful. Unless of course you think Hertz should have OJ running through airports and Cosby should be hawking pudding pops as well?

[Ruzious]

It's bizarre that some are trying to make a martyr out of Flair for this. He's made this far worse than it should be by not owning up and apologizing. Until he does, it's hard to imagine his rep and legacy rehabbing. And frankly, that's the way it should be.

[Scott Hall]

It's hard to believe that people that were born in 2002 are old enough to drive, vote, serve the army etc.
There's probably a whole younger generation that only knows the "fun loving" version of the Plane Ride from Hell
that was on Story Time on the WWE Network where the air hostesses were portrayed as giggling and wanting
Ric Flair. For me it was so long ago I forgot some stuff and I didn't know Flair actually forced one of them in the
back where they couldn't move and forced her hand to grab it.

Judging the reaction from people Tommy Dreamer and Jim Ross's comments really were the icing on the cake. Jim
Ross admitting he didn't face any consequences because he's Ric Flair exposed the double standard that people
always suspect. People also had never heard from the victim before and guys like RVD and Justin Credible explaining
how bad it was kind of makes you realize it was worse then you even think.

Then Friday morning I'm sure there were a lot of people like me that were confused as to why Ric Flair, Tommy Dreamer,
Dustin Runnels and Brock Lesnar were randomly trending... And what happens when I clicked on Ric Flairs name? I see
tweets of videos of Teddy Long telling a story of Flair dropping an N-Bomb on him, videos of Shane Douglas talking about
how Flair used to do this all the time and saw him whip his dick out in front of kids, tweets of Bam Bam Bigelow
talking about other bad stuff he did etc etc. If you aren't a Wrestling fan and know of Ric Flair and clicked on his
name you probably had no idea about most of that stuff.

Hogan said what he said in 2004 and it came to light in 2015 and he got cancelled for 3 years. Velveteen Dream and
Tessa Blanchard as well as Hogan did lesser stuff then Flair and only have one incident against them and got cancelled
yet Flair who has a history of it has gotten a free pass because he's Ric Flair? and all these years he gets to be loved
and respected and continue to make a living in the industry?

For me my problem is with the hypocrisy of the cancel culture and how people pick and choose who gets to suffer
and who gets a free pass. And then nobody can seem to agree whether it's wrestling or athletes or Hollywood what
indeed should be the penalty for sexual assault, domestic violence and racist comments? the people that are pro
cancellation on this tend to paint the people that want to give the people 2nd chances as monsters or part of the problem.

I agree that Flair should have served his time, after that incident. I don't find what he did to be funny or light. Definitely something I would never do. I just think it's a slippery slope to start cancelling guys for incidents that were known 20 years ago. If that's the case then lots of people will be next!

I do understand where you're coming from... Nothing new was revealed and all of this has been known for 20 years.
It's like if Dark Side of the Ring did an episode on the Steve Austin and Debra incident(s) and people being outraged
it's like where have you people been the last 20 years as it seemed like no one seemed to care? Seems like these things
need a big platform like a show like Dark Side of the Ring for people to actually care sadly.

[djsunyc]

I don’t believe such a thing as cancel culture exists. The basic answer is you reap what you sew.

Flair is not going to get booked anymore and it’s not because of cancel culture. It’s because those individual companies are going to make decisions based on what’s best for their image and bottom line. If something from your past surfaces and it costs you opportunities you can’t blame the backlash on anyone but yourself. There’s no statute of limitations.

Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted a child more than 30 years ago and it just now came to light as the child, now grown and ready to share his story came out with it. The fact that Spacey will never see another acting role is a result of his actions and not a Twitter mob as some would like to believe.

So we're gonna compare something that while old, is brand new with Spacey, to Flair where it's both old and not new?

I'm fine with Flair paying a price, but this stuff sets a pretty rough precident when we're just now cancelling guys for something that's 20 years old and was already a known incident.

please explain what you mean by classifying this as a rough precedent. why does going after flair now make you feel that way?

to me, i dont care that it happened 20 years ago. it was wrong and like others have mentioned, you reap what you sow.

and yes, there's double standards everywhere but ultimately, who cares? others time may come too.

[WRau1]

Flair has always been a piece of ****, I just kind of assumed long-time wrestling fans knew that. That's literally what keeps him off of GOAT lists all the time.

[improper]

I'll be interested to see if people start to feel differently about Undertaker after the Kanyon episode. The chair shot he laid on Kanyon (potentially for being gay) was disgusting, and he's done that multiple times in his career to guys. I forget the guy's name, but there was the one at the Royal Rumble that was gross as well and was basically just hazing a new guy on that one.

[jakecronus8]

If you dig a little bit into Taker you’ll see a lot of boxes checked that you’d prefer not to see.

[tugs]

I'll be interested to see if people start to feel differently about Undertaker after the Kanyon episode. The chair shot he laid on Kanyon (potentially for being gay) was disgusting, and he's done that multiple times in his career to guys. I forget the guy's name, but there was the one at the Royal Rumble that was gross as well and was basically just hazing a new guy on that one.

Think that was Maven

[Scott Hall]

I'll be interested to see if people start to feel differently about Undertaker after the Kanyon episode. The chair shot he laid on Kanyon (potentially for being gay) was disgusting, and he's done that multiple times in his career to guys. I forget the guy's name, but there was the one at the Royal Rumble that was gross as well and was basically just hazing a new guy on that one.

Daniel Puder at the 2005 Royal Rumble where Benoit, Eddie, Holly etc all chopped the $hit out of him? I never heard
the story about Taker drilling Kanyon in the head with a chair because he was gay or it was so long ago I might've
forgot. But I've never been a big Undertaker guy and it says a lot that he was supposedly the "locker room leader"
all those years where most of the bad hazing and bad incidents happened and the biggest culprit and most unlikable
guy JBL during that span was at his wedding and maybe even the best man and they are good friends.

[improper]

Daniel Puder at the 2005 Royal Rumble where Benoit, Eddie, Holly etc all chopped the $hit out of him? I never heard the story about Taker drilling Kanyon in the head with a chair because he was gay or it was so long ago I might've
forgot. But I've never been a big Undertaker guy and it says a lot that he was supposedly the "locker room leader"
all those years where most of the bad hazing and bad incidents happened and the biggest culprit and most unlikable
guy JBL during that span was at his wedding and maybe even the best man and they are good friends.

Watch on YouTube

Honestly one of the most brutal chair shots I have ever seen.

I may have been misremembering the one he did to Maven. I tried looking it up but it looks like what he actually did was hold the chair to Maven's throat and slam it into the ground. For whatever reason I was remembering it as a chair to the head.

[improper]

Okay, never mind. I was not misremembering. I just couldn't find a clip that didn't cut it off.

Watch on YouTube

Skip to around the 3:28 mark to see the chairshot to Maven.