PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[Dutchball97]

...

You're in Zandvoort this weekend?

Haha I wish. It was sold out so fast I had no chance. I live where most of the drivers stayed in hotels though so I did get to see quite a bit of the F1 circus but just watching on tv right now.

[Odinn21]

...

You're in Zandvoort this weekend?

Haha I wish. It was sold out so fast I had no chance. I live where most of the drivers stayed in hotels though so I did get to see quite a bit of the F1 circus but just watching on tv right now.

I never had a chance to see an F1 team on the job, I'd assume they'd be focused af, lol.
Glad you got to see some action though.

It looks like it'll be a dominant weekend for Verstappen.

[Goudelock]

The Trae Young/Drake/Jay Z thread is following the classic formula of every other hip hop thread on RealGM:

Young man in his 20s says he thinks the rapper he's grown up listening to in his teens is the GOAT.

Older posters call said modern rapper "trash" and say the young man is stupid.

Older posters exalt the rappers they grew up listening to in their teens and early-20s as the GOAT.

I think Drake has been mediocre for a while now, but the hypocrisy of the older crowd always makes me laugh. And in 20 years, the once-young men who think Drake is the GOAT will be crapping on whoever the top artist is, and the cycle will continue.

[Goudelock]

btw while i"m on the topic, 30 song albums is a trend that needs to die. Cut that **** to 10 good songs.

[HeartBreakKid]

Yeah, albums with a ton of tracks is a big turnoff.

[Dr Positivity]

Double albums always make me feel that way

[Dr Positivity]

The Trae Young/Drake/Jay Z thread is following the classic formula of every other hip hop thread on RealGM:

Young man in his 20s says he thinks the rapper he's grown up listening to in his teens is the GOAT.

Older posters call said modern rapper "trash" and say the young man is stupid.

Older posters exalt the rappers they grew up listening to in their teens and early-20s as the GOAT.

I think Drake has been mediocre for a while now, but the hypocrisy of the older crowd always makes me laugh. And in 20 years, the once-young men who think Drake is the GOAT will be crapping on whoever the top artist is, and the cycle will continue.

I wouldn't call myself the biggest rap expert here, but it seems to me like the recent trend of rapper is lyrics being the least important part, which is legit lame. Because the old rappers still did good on the musical part of their songs and had good rapping. The production/instrumental of the newer generation isn't good enough to justify weak rapping to me, it's not even better at all by my ears, their taste in beats seems repetitive and annoying, and I'm not going to claim that Drake is some great artist from a production standpoint when he's not even the one doing it, this guy Noah Shebib seems like he's the biggest reason for his success if the production is the biggest reason why. Drake then provides the charisma to sell it.

Now with that said nobody said Drake has to be the most important rapper of this generation, even if he ends up the most popular. So your example could be true that someone in a few decades say 2010s guys are the best, I'd just hope they are using rappers who are better than Drake.

[Odinn21]

...

My PMs aren't working at the moment. How are you doing? I thought this latest project would interest you, kind of sad you're not in it yet.

Edit
Omfg, I just realized that you're not on the tag list. What a brainfart of me.

[Texas Chuck]

The Trae Young/Drake/Jay Z thread is following the classic formula of every other hip hop thread on RealGM:

Young man in his 20s says he thinks the rapper he's grown up listening to in his teens is the GOAT.

Older posters call said modern rapper "trash" and say the young man is stupid.

Older posters exalt the rappers they grew up listening to in their teens and early-20s as the GOAT.

I think Drake has been mediocre for a while now, but the hypocrisy of the older crowd always makes me laugh. And in 20 years, the once-young men who think Drake is the GOAT will be crapping on whoever the top artist is, and the cycle will continue.

Not sure subjective opinions are hypocrisy are they? If they like the older stuff more they like the older stuff more. If they don't like the new stuff, they don't like it.

Neither side is a hypocrite. They just have different taste as is to be expected. I mean I went from liking Fresh Prince and Young MC to Vanilla Ice/MC Hammer to Easy E back when I was a teen. I liked what I liked and didn't worry about my current or future cred.

[Doctor MJ]

The Trae Young/Drake/Jay Z thread is following the classic formula of every other hip hop thread on RealGM:

Young man in his 20s says he thinks the rapper he's grown up listening to in his teens is the GOAT.

Older posters call said modern rapper "trash" and say the young man is stupid.

Older posters exalt the rappers they grew up listening to in their teens and early-20s as the GOAT.

I think Drake has been mediocre for a while now, but the hypocrisy of the older crowd always makes me laugh. And in 20 years, the once-young men who think Drake is the GOAT will be crapping on whoever the top artist is, and the cycle will continue.

I wouldn't call myself the biggest rap expert here, but it seems to me like the recent trend of rapper is lyrics being the least important part, which is legit lame. Because the old rappers still did good on the musical part of their songs and had good rapping. The production/instrumental of the newer generation isn't good enough to justify weak rapping to me, it's not even better at all by my ears, their taste in beats seems repetitive and annoying, and I'm not going to claim that Drake is some great artist from a production standpoint when he's not even the one doing it, this guy Noah Shebib seems like he's the biggest reason for his success if the production is the biggest reason why. Drake then provides the charisma to sell it.

Now with that said nobody said Drake has to be the most important rapper of this generation, even if he ends up the most popular. So your example could be true that someone in a few decades say 2010s guys are the best, I'd just hope they are using rappers who are better than Drake.

So I'm going to be that jerk and say:

Post-Public Enemy, there's really never been a time where the best rap lyricists were the ones with the big sales. Guys like NWA, Snoop, 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z were first and foremost about selling a certain type of bad ass image, and really not much has changed except that the Drakes of the world are more touchy-feely.

The rap world decided a long time ago that lyrics didn't really need a meaningful message, and so to me all this quibbling about rap GOATs is about which mainstream figure convinced the world he had the biggest d**k, whereas if you're interested primarily in the art of rap-like lyrics, the spoken word poetry community has always been more interesting.

None of this is to say I can't see why people love 2Pac or Drake, but lyrical snobbery attached to any of these guys is just bizarre to me.

[BIGJ1ER]

The Trae Young/Drake/Jay Z thread is following the classic formula of every other hip hop thread on RealGM:

Young man in his 20s says he thinks the rapper he's grown up listening to in his teens is the GOAT.

Older posters call said modern rapper "trash" and say the young man is stupid.

Older posters exalt the rappers they grew up listening to in their teens and early-20s as the GOAT.

I think Drake has been mediocre for a while now, but the hypocrisy of the older crowd always makes me laugh. And in 20 years, the once-young men who think Drake is the GOAT will be crapping on whoever the top artist is, and the cycle will continue.

I wouldn't call myself the biggest rap expert here, but it seems to me like the recent trend of rapper is lyrics being the least important part, which is legit lame. Because the old rappers still did good on the musical part of their songs and had good rapping. The production/instrumental of the newer generation isn't good enough to justify weak rapping to me, it's not even better at all by my ears, their taste in beats seems repetitive and annoying, and I'm not going to claim that Drake is some great artist from a production standpoint when he's not even the one doing it, this guy Noah Shebib seems like he's the biggest reason for his success if the production is the biggest reason why. Drake then provides the charisma to sell it.

Now with that said nobody said Drake has to be the most important rapper of this generation, even if he ends up the most popular. So your example could be true that someone in a few decades say 2010s guys are the best, I'd just hope they are using rappers who are better than Drake.

So I'm going to be that jerk and say:

Post-Public Enemy, there's really never been a time where the best rap lyricists were the ones with the big sales. Guys like NWA, Snoop, 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z were first and foremost about selling a certain type of bad ass image, and really not much has changed except that the Drakes of the world are more touchy-feely.

The rap world decided a long time ago that lyrics didn't really need a meaningful message, and so to me all this quibbling about rap GOATs is about which mainstream figure convinced the world he had the biggest d**k, whereas if you're interested primarily in the art of rap-like lyrics, the spoken word poetry community has always been more interesting.

None of this is to say I can't see why people love 2Pac or Drake, but lyrical snobbery attached to any of these guys is just bizarre to me.

I definitely get what you're saying, image has always mattered in the rap and music industry as a whole.

People act is if artists like Talib Kweli, Big L, Big Pun, Canibus were super mainstream at the time and hip hop celebrated artists like these, but if anything they were more on the level of current guys like JID, Grip and Bas who are also lyrically talented but not super mainstream like arguably less talented artists like lil Uzi Vert, Pop Smoke etc.

I still think that the guys like Eminem, Jay-Z (especially these two) and Biggie were more lyrically talented and had better techincal ability and more interesting flows than a guy like Drake, who's really become the McDonalds of the hip hop game in terms of safe reliable substance, so I also somewhat understand where the oldheads are coming from.

The touchy feely point you brought up is an interesting trend that was pioneered primarily by Kanye's 808's and heartbreaks album, and the whole trap wave has also taken over rap with melodic rap like Gunna, Travis Scott, LilBaby who aren't really being touchy feely yet aren't being lyrical either, and are more making smooth sounding melodies (Tbh I don't find lilbaby or gunny melodic or enjoyable to listen to at all, but I see what they're going for) that aren't really reminiscent of the older hiphop style, or atleast the production is completely different.

TBH I know it's not popular but I was actually a fan of the "bling rap" era from like 2003-2008 where the production was very grand, although that could be due to coinciding with my youth, but the production from that era is very nostalgic to me and always hits a certain spot.

[parsnips33]

"If skills sold, truth be told, I would probably be, lyrically, Talib Kweli"

[Dr Positivity]

The Trae Young/Drake/Jay Z thread is following the classic formula of every other hip hop thread on RealGM:

Young man in his 20s says he thinks the rapper he's grown up listening to in his teens is the GOAT.

Older posters call said modern rapper "trash" and say the young man is stupid.

Older posters exalt the rappers they grew up listening to in their teens and early-20s as the GOAT.

I think Drake has been mediocre for a while now, but the hypocrisy of the older crowd always makes me laugh. And in 20 years, the once-young men who think Drake is the GOAT will be crapping on whoever the top artist is, and the cycle will continue.

I wouldn't call myself the biggest rap expert here, but it seems to me like the recent trend of rapper is lyrics being the least important part, which is legit lame. Because the old rappers still did good on the musical part of their songs and had good rapping. The production/instrumental of the newer generation isn't good enough to justify weak rapping to me, it's not even better at all by my ears, their taste in beats seems repetitive and annoying, and I'm not going to claim that Drake is some great artist from a production standpoint when he's not even the one doing it, this guy Noah Shebib seems like he's the biggest reason for his success if the production is the biggest reason why. Drake then provides the charisma to sell it.

Now with that said nobody said Drake has to be the most important rapper of this generation, even if he ends up the most popular. So your example could be true that someone in a few decades say 2010s guys are the best, I'd just hope they are using rappers who are better than Drake.

So I'm going to be that jerk and say:

Post-Public Enemy, there's really never been a time where the best rap lyricists were the ones with the big sales. Guys like NWA, Snoop, 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z were first and foremost about selling a certain type of bad ass image, and really not much has changed except that the Drakes of the world are more touchy-feely.

The rap world decided a long time ago that lyrics didn't really need a meaningful message, and so to me all this quibbling about rap GOATs is about which mainstream figure convinced the world he had the biggest d**k, whereas if you're interested primarily in the art of rap-like lyrics, the spoken word poetry community has always been more interesting.

None of this is to say I can't see why people love 2Pac or Drake, but lyrical snobbery attached to any of these guys is just bizarre to me.

I understand the idea that the driving force of popularity has probably always been the musical part, the reality is the majority of people don't listen to the words in songs, even rap music.

However I still think the rapping and lyrics part where more important to artists like 2pac, Eminem or pre crazy Kanye, and also also completed them as artists and gave them a perspective. When I hear a song like this it seems to me like it has words because it has to

Watch on YouTube

Wwhich in a vacuum isn't really something I have an issue with, I just also find this style or Drake's to be musically annoying as well - and it's not like rappers weren't trying from a musical perspective before.

[Doctor MJ]

I wouldn't call myself the biggest rap expert here, but it seems to me like the recent trend of rapper is lyrics being the least important part, which is legit lame. Because the old rappers still did good on the musical part of their songs and had good rapping. The production/instrumental of the newer generation isn't good enough to justify weak rapping to me, it's not even better at all by my ears, their taste in beats seems repetitive and annoying, and I'm not going to claim that Drake is some great artist from a production standpoint when he's not even the one doing it, this guy Noah Shebib seems like he's the biggest reason for his success if the production is the biggest reason why. Drake then provides the charisma to sell it.

Now with that said nobody said Drake has to be the most important rapper of this generation, even if he ends up the most popular. So your example could be true that someone in a few decades say 2010s guys are the best, I'd just hope they are using rappers who are better than Drake.

So I'm going to be that jerk and say:

Post-Public Enemy, there's really never been a time where the best rap lyricists were the ones with the big sales. Guys like NWA, Snoop, 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z were first and foremost about selling a certain type of bad ass image, and really not much has changed except that the Drakes of the world are more touchy-feely.

The rap world decided a long time ago that lyrics didn't really need a meaningful message, and so to me all this quibbling about rap GOATs is about which mainstream figure convinced the world he had the biggest d**k, whereas if you're interested primarily in the art of rap-like lyrics, the spoken word poetry community has always been more interesting.

None of this is to say I can't see why people love 2Pac or Drake, but lyrical snobbery attached to any of these guys is just bizarre to me.

I definitely get what you're saying, image has always mattered in the rap and music industry as a whole.

People act is if artists like Talib Kweli, Big L, Big Pun, Canibus were super mainstream at the time and hip hop celebrated artists like these, but if anything they were more on the level of current guys like JID, Grip and Bas who are also lyrically talented but not super mainstream like arguably less talented artists like lil Uzi Vert, Pop Smoke etc.

I still think that the guys like Eminem, Jay-Z (especially these two) and Biggie were more lyrically talented and had better techincal ability and more interesting flows than a guy like Drake, who's really become the McDonalds of the hip hop game in terms of safe reliable substance, so I also somewhat understand where the oldheads are coming from.

The touchy feely point you brought up is an interesting trend that was pioneered primarily by Kanye's 808's and heartbreaks album, and the whole trap wave has also taken over rap with melodic rap like Gunna, Travis Scott, LilBaby who aren't really being touchy feely yet aren't being lyrical either, and are more making smooth sounding melodies (Tbh I don't find lilbaby or gunny melodic or enjoyable to listen to at all, but I see what they're going for) that aren't really reminiscent of the older hiphop style, or atleast the production is completely different.

TBH I know it's not popular but I was actually a fan of the "bling rap" era from like 2003-2008 where the production was very grand, although that could be due to coinciding with my youth, but the production from that era is very nostalgic to me and always hits a certain spot.

And I'll say: It's completely fine that image matters so much...it just makes fanboys arguing vehemently for any of these guys as the best possible wordsmiths look pretty provincial.

People should like who they like, but the snobby side-taking makes the entire genre look small-minded.

[Doctor MJ]

I wouldn't call myself the biggest rap expert here, but it seems to me like the recent trend of rapper is lyrics being the least important part, which is legit lame. Because the old rappers still did good on the musical part of their songs and had good rapping. The production/instrumental of the newer generation isn't good enough to justify weak rapping to me, it's not even better at all by my ears, their taste in beats seems repetitive and annoying, and I'm not going to claim that Drake is some great artist from a production standpoint when he's not even the one doing it, this guy Noah Shebib seems like he's the biggest reason for his success if the production is the biggest reason why. Drake then provides the charisma to sell it.

Now with that said nobody said Drake has to be the most important rapper of this generation, even if he ends up the most popular. So your example could be true that someone in a few decades say 2010s guys are the best, I'd just hope they are using rappers who are better than Drake.

So I'm going to be that jerk and say:

Post-Public Enemy, there's really never been a time where the best rap lyricists were the ones with the big sales. Guys like NWA, Snoop, 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z were first and foremost about selling a certain type of bad ass image, and really not much has changed except that the Drakes of the world are more touchy-feely.

The rap world decided a long time ago that lyrics didn't really need a meaningful message, and so to me all this quibbling about rap GOATs is about which mainstream figure convinced the world he had the biggest d**k, whereas if you're interested primarily in the art of rap-like lyrics, the spoken word poetry community has always been more interesting.

None of this is to say I can't see why people love 2Pac or Drake, but lyrical snobbery attached to any of these guys is just bizarre to me.

I understand the idea that the driving force of popularity has probably always been the musical part, the reality is the majority of people don't listen to the words in songs, even rap music.

However I still think the rapping and lyrics part where more important to artists like 2pac, Eminem or pre crazy Kanye, and also also completed them as artists and gave them a perspective. When I hear a song like this it seems to me like it has words because it has to

Watch on YouTube

Wwhich in a vacuum isn't really something I have an issue with, I just also find this style or Drake's to be musically annoying as well - and it's not like rappers weren't trying from a musical perspective before.

I actually don't think the main appeal of mainstream rap is in the lyrical or musical virtuosity. I think it's about 1) beats and 2) swagger.

Re: 2Pac, Eminem, Kanye - I understand why you point to them as having particular skills. Thoughts on each:

2Pac - I think 2Pac showed emotional versatility in a way that really stood out compared to most other rappers of the day, and he did it without being seen as effeminate which would have killed his commercial appeal. He definitely had something special...

but he also wasn't really 2Pac until he died. Similar to Kurt Cobain in rock, but frankly, even more so.

Eminem - He's the established king of speed rapping among popular rappers. Incredible with the consonants. Limited emotional range, limited scope of intellectual interest.

Kanye - Incredible sonic architect who needs an editor. You talk about him as great pre-crazy, I'd call him intriguing and promising pre-ego.

[Goudelock]

When I hear a song like this it seems to me like it has words because it has to

Watch on YouTube

I have nothing to add content-wise to this discussion because Doc MJ and y'all are talking on an intellectual level I'm not gonna try to reach.

However, I will defend Broccoli.

Are the lyrics meaningful or deep or thought-provoking in the slightest? Not at all.

Was it an amazing song to hear in a group-setting as a college student? Yes. It's a great party song, and I think there's room for those kinds of songs in every era.

[Dr Positivity]

When I hear a song like this it seems to me like it has words because it has to

Watch on YouTube

I have nothing to add content-wise to this discussion because Doc MJ and y'all are talking on an intellectual level I'm not gonna try to reach.

However, I will defend Broccoli.

Are the lyrics meaningful or deep or thought-provoking in the slightest? Not at all.

Was it an amazing song to hear in a group-setting as a college student? Yes. It's a great party song, and I think there's room for those kinds of songs in every era.

I get it, I mean I'm probably one of the biggest fans of pop music on this forum so I don't have a problem with songs being good because they're fun, in fact I welcome it. I guess my point would be though that there's an artform to some vapid lyrics. "I like big butts and I can not lie"? "To the window, to the wall, till the sweat drip down my balls"? I mean those are good lyrics in their own ridiculous way. I'm just sold these mumble rap guys are really producing memorable lines, it sounds more to me like they care about what their voice sounds like or the "flow" and then they just mail in some random stuff for the words. Then again I understand different strokes of "fun music' and and ultimately the main reason I'm not more forgiving of the mumble type of rap music more is I don't get it from a musical standpoint either, and I think that can probably be chalked up to just not understanding the next generation's ear drums, which is not a new phenomenon. There is no musical genre I think is on top of it game right now honestly, don't think girl pop type music is, hell no when it comes to rock music, but ultimately a current day 16 year old might feel differently I guess.

[LukaTheGOAT]

I just got to meet a former GM of the Washingtom Wizards last night, Garnett Slatt. He teaches at my school now. Some cool notes:

Wes Unseld and Manute Bol were some of the best people you could meet and he admired them. Manute did anything for money so he could build hospitals back in Sudan.

Unseld became the coach and GM of the Bullets, even though he knew those weren't his strengths out of loyalty to the owner who wanted him in that position

Moses Malone was cool but very cheap. He was the highest paid player in the league but his wife collected $25 for the bridal shower they threw for Bol and his wife.

Moses would also get up early in the morning for breakfast, just so Mr. Slatt would pay for his breakfast and so he could save money.

Muggy Bogues was incredibly quick and the coaches on the Bullets didn't think he would last because they though he would get posted up every time. However Bogues was amazingly quick and fast....there is footage from a basketball camp that was held, of a point guard for the Knicks (who was unnamed), unable to get the ball past half-court EVEN once, because Bogues was that fast and quick.

His friend Dave who spent time with him in the front office, worked on the deal that sold the Nets for 2 billion bucks.

[Clyde Frazier]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I'm really starting to struggle with the fact that death after death after death still truly hasn't gotten through to these guys. The negative reach these two simple tweets will have is devastating.

Chris Herring wrote a great related article today:

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/10/01/vaccine-not-personal-choice-nba-players-kyrie-irving-andrew-wiggins

[Jaivl]

"If skills sold, truth be told, I would probably be, lyrically, Talib Kweli"

Truthfully I want to rhyme like Common Sense
But I did five mill, I ain't been rhyming like Common since