Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[Dat2U]

Avdija, KCP & Bertans for Simmons

Hachimura & Bryant for Wood

C Gafford, Harrell
F C. Wood, Kuzma
F Simmons, Kispert
G Beal, Holiday
G Dinwiddie, Neto

A man can still dream.

[Ruzious]

Avdija, KCP & Bertans for Simmons

Hachimura & Bryant for Wood

C Gafford, Harrell
F C. Wood, Kuzma
F Simmons, Kispert
G Beal, Holiday
G Dinwiddie, Neto

A man can still dream.

Sounds like Simmons is entrenched in not even reporting to Philly. I mean... Philly wants to win NOW. They can't be in the business of trying to punish Simmons. At some point, they got to do something about this festering problem, and that some point is getting closer every day. And the thing about him is - you can play him anywhere, and as long as you have shooters, he will feed them. Take a chance on greatness. Those chances don't come around very often.

[nate33]

Avdija, KCP & Bertans for Simmons

Hachimura & Bryant for Wood

C Gafford, Harrell
F C. Wood, Kuzma
F Simmons, Kispert
G Beal, Holiday
G Dinwiddie, Neto

A man can still dream.

Sounds like Simmons is entrenched in not even reporting to Philly. I mean... Philly wants to win NOW. They can't be in the business of trying to punish Simmons. At some point, they got to do something about this festering problem, and that some point is getting closer every day. And the thing about him is - you can play him anywhere, and as long as you have shooters, he will feed them. Take a chance on greatness. Those chances don't come around very often.

The trade that really might make sense for both parties is Dinwiddie + Kuzma for Simmons. I think it's permissible on September 27th or later since Dinwiddie technically was a trade acquisition, not a free agent signing.

The Sixers get a true PG who can break down a defense, and they get a versatile wing to replace some of what Simmons does. We get Simmons while unloading two long term contracts (so we can afford Simmons going forward) and retaining our young guys.

We could field a really good offensive lineup featuring Simmons plus shooting (Beal, Bertans, KCP, Bryant) or we could play some serious D with Beal, Simmons and defenders (pick 3 among Holiday, KCP, Hachimura, Gafford)

PG Beal/Holiday
SG KCP/Kispert
SF Simmons/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Bryant/Gafford

The way things are looking, is Philly really going to do better than Dinwiddie as far as getting back a playmaking PG in his prime?

[Ruzious]

Avdija, KCP & Bertans for Simmons

Hachimura & Bryant for Wood

C Gafford, Harrell
F C. Wood, Kuzma
F Simmons, Kispert
G Beal, Holiday
G Dinwiddie, Neto

A man can still dream.

Sounds like Simmons is entrenched in not even reporting to Philly. I mean... Philly wants to win NOW. They can't be in the business of trying to punish Simmons. At some point, they got to do something about this festering problem, and that some point is getting closer every day. And the thing about him is - you can play him anywhere, and as long as you have shooters, he will feed them. Take a chance on greatness. Those chances don't come around very often.

The trade that really might make sense for both parties is Dinwiddie + Kuzma for Simmons. I think it's permissible on September 27th or later since Dinwiddie technically was a trade acquisition, not a free agent signing.

The Sixers get a true PG who can break down a defense, and they get a versatile wing to replace some of what Simmons does. We get Simmons while unloading two long term contracts (so we can afford Simmons going forward) and retaining our young guys.

We could field a really good offensive lineup featuring Simmons plus shooting (Beal, Bertans, KCP, Bryant) or we could play some serious D with Beal, Simmons and defenders (pick 3 among Holiday, KCP, Hachimura, Gafford)

PG Beal/Holiday
SG KCP/Kispert
SF Simmons/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Bryant/Gafford

The way things are looking, is Philly really going to do better than Dinwiddie as far as getting back a playmaking PG in his prime?

I could see that if Dinwiddie and - to a lesser extent - Kuzma - gets off to a good start - maybe a month or so into the season.

[doclinkin]

Sounds like Simmons is entrenched in not even reporting to Philly. I mean... Philly wants to win NOW. They can't be in the business of trying to punish Simmons. At some point, they got to do something about this festering problem, and that some point is getting closer every day. And the thing about him is - you can play him anywhere, and as long as you have shooters, he will feed them. Take a chance on greatness. Those chances don't come around very often.

The trade that really might make sense for both parties is Dinwiddie + Kuzma for Simmons. I think it's permissible on September 27th or later since Dinwiddie technically was a trade acquisition, not a free agent signing.

The Sixers get a true PG who can break down a defense, and they get a versatile wing to replace some of what Simmons does. We get Simmons while unloading two long term contracts (so we can afford Simmons going forward) and retaining our young guys.

We could field a really good offensive lineup featuring Simmons plus shooting (Beal, Bertans, KCP, Bryant) or we could play some serious D with Beal, Simmons and defenders (pick 3 among Holiday, KCP, Hachimura, Gafford)

PG Beal/Holiday
SG KCP/Kispert
SF Simmons/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Bryant/Gafford

The way things are looking, is Philly really going to do better than Dinwiddie as far as getting back a playmaking PG in his prime?

I could see that if Dinwiddie and - to a lesser extent - Kuzma - gets off to a good start - maybe a month or so into the season.

But if so Ted won't want Tommy to trade either of them.

[Ruzious]

The trade that really might make sense for both parties is Dinwiddie + Kuzma for Simmons. I think it's permissible on September 27th or later since Dinwiddie technically was a trade acquisition, not a free agent signing.

The Sixers get a true PG who can break down a defense, and they get a versatile wing to replace some of what Simmons does. We get Simmons while unloading two long term contracts (so we can afford Simmons going forward) and retaining our young guys.

We could field a really good offensive lineup featuring Simmons plus shooting (Beal, Bertans, KCP, Bryant) or we could play some serious D with Beal, Simmons and defenders (pick 3 among Holiday, KCP, Hachimura, Gafford)

PG Beal/Holiday
SG KCP/Kispert
SF Simmons/Bertans
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Bryant/Gafford

The way things are looking, is Philly really going to do better than Dinwiddie as far as getting back a playmaking PG in his prime?

I could see that if Dinwiddie and - to a lesser extent - Kuzma - gets off to a good start - maybe a month or so into the season.

But if so Ted won't want Tommy to trade either of them.

Maybe, but Tommy's gotta become strong enough to convince Ted to let him do his job.

[payitforward]

Dinwiddie/Kuzma for Simmons is a no-brainer. But... why would Ted be against this trade?

[TGW]

I would trade pretty much anyone on this team not named Beal for Simmons. Get it done.

[WallToWall]

Simmons…. How to make the best lowball offer…?

[penbeast0]

Dinwiddie/Kuzma for Simmons is a no-brainer. But... why would Ted be against this trade?

Dinwiddie can't be dealt until December I thought, which sort of makes it difficult.

[doclinkin]

Dinwiddie/Kuzma for Simmons is a no-brainer. But... why would Ted be against this trade?

Beal. IF the team is playing well with Dinwiddie & Kuzma then why would Brad want a change that might mess with chemistry. Especially given:

"We kind of exposed the move of fouling Ben [Simmons], putting him on the line a few times," Beal told CBS Sports' Michael Kaskey-Blomain. "Granted, I think in our series, he actually made a few. So, we had to go away from that instead of just giving away free points. But they were two totally different series, two totally different teams. Ben was more or less aggressive in our series, the first couple games, and then it kind of died down and trickled down from there."

Consider that Dinwiddie was apparently recruited by Beal (on the hush hush). Likes his game etc. Could the addition of Simmons mess with good chemistry? Any new addition will require some adjustment. Simmons in particular, because he has no jumper and can't shoot a free throw, would require a shift. Not much of a shift from Dinwiddie who also is somewhat deficient at range. But chemistry is a tricky thing. A few players have had issue with Simmons over the years. Maybe he isn't great in the locker room. (And you now hear about him sliding into the DMs of the girlfriend of a supposed friend of his, so...).

In any case, the point is, if subtracting a friend of Beal who is playing well means that the team may lose Beal at the end of the season, who do you think Ted would rather have? Ted likes good character guys who work hard. Those are two of the question marks about SImmons as a basketball player. Phenomenal talent who hasn't done much to work on his game and came up short in the playoffs, and knocks on his character behind the scenes.

I'm not advocating either way. He's a special talent. I'm just saying, if the team is playing well and Beal is happy, I'd fully bet that Ted would not want to upset the apple cart. Because you know he would consult with Beal on the trade before he ok'd it. So. Right or wrong that any player should have this much say but: What would Beal want? Whatever that answer is, that's what Ted wants.

[Dat2U]

Simply dealing Rui & TB for CWood makes a big difference IMO. I really like that starting group. Very balanced offensively with solid rim protection.

F Christian Wood ... Kyle Kuzma ... Gill / Todd
F K. Caldwell-Pope ... Deni Avdija ... Corey Kispert
C Daniel Gafford ... Montrezl Harrell
G Bradley Beal ... Aaron Holiday
G Spencer Dinwiddie ... Raul Neto

I could see a high 40s or low 50s win total with good healthy.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I want to note for the record, that many of those who complain about us being run like a second-rate franchise, are entertaining the notion of trading a guy who we went after pretty hard as a free agent, a guy who wanted to play here, before he’s even played a game for us for a guy wants to play in California so he can be a staple of TMZ. Talk about dirt bag move - I’m sure that would endear us in the hearts of free agents for years to come.

And the absolute best part, the real knee-slapper, doing it for a guy who is now showing he is willing to nuke a franchise that drafted him and has mollycoddled him every step of the way because they said time to grow up and show some maturity. And oh yeah, maybe show an ounce of passion/humility/whatever the hell, and learn how to be at least be below league average in arguably the most important skill on a basketball court, shooting.

A shot at greatness? You should duck your brains into reality before posting again, because this Simmons guy ain’t the one you should be willing to roll those dice on.

[doclinkin]

Simply dealing Rui & TB for CWood makes a big difference IMO. I really like that starting group. Very balanced offensively with solid rim protection.

F Christian Wood ... Kyle Kuzma ... Gill / Todd
F K. Caldwell-Pope ... Deni Avdija ... Corey Kispert
C Daniel Gafford ... Montrezl Harrell
G Bradley Beal ... Aaron Holiday
G Spencer Dinwiddie ... Raul Neto

I could see a high 40s or low 50s win total with good healthy.

I'm can see that. Rui has been the player hardest to fit into any line-up, looking for chemistry. His raw talent is undeniable. His defense is key a few match-ups per year, but currently his instincts and habits are questionable. He doesn't participate in pick and roll plays. Doesn't set screens. Doesn't know what to do in team defense or rebounding. Maybe Wes instills some fundamentals in him. But if I am swapping players with potential Wood is a target, sure. Not sure why for Houston though. Wood looks like a good fit next to Sengun.

Question though: where are you shipping Bertans with this scenario? Or is that an accidental omission. Maybe Bertans gets shuffled for picks since that's what Houston wants most.

[nate33]

I want to note for the record, that many of those who complain about us being run like a second-rate franchise, are entertaining the notion of trading a guy who we went after pretty hard as a free agent, a guy who wanted to play here, before he’s even played a game for us for a guy wants to play in California so he can be a staple of TMZ. Talk about dirt bag move - I’m sure that would endear us in the hearts of free agents for years to come.

And the absolute best part, the real knee-slapper, doing it for a guy who is now showing he is willing to nuke a franchise that drafted him and has mollycoddled him every step of the way because they said time to grow up and show some maturity. And oh yeah, maybe show an ounce of passion/humility/whatever the hell, and learn how to be at least be below league average in arguably the most important skill on a basketball court, shooting.

A shot at greatness? You should duck your brains into reality before posting again, because this Simmons guy ain’t the one you should be willing to roll those dice on.

Disagree completely.

Second-rate franchises don't take advantage of opportunities to grab top end talent at bargain prices. Good franchises seize on those opportunities. If things work out as I proposed, Sheppard will ultimately have traded a broken down and disgruntled John Wall on the worst contract in the league (+ five 2nd round picks) for Simmons + KCP + Harrell while renting Westbrook for a season in the process. Pretty freaking incredible if you ask me.

Also, I don't think Dinwiddie would be all that upset being rerouted from a middling team vying for a play-in seed to a legit championship contender (who happens to be lacking a PG) with the best big man in the game.

[nate33]

Dinwiddie/Kuzma for Simmons is a no-brainer. But... why would Ted be against this trade?

Dinwiddie can't be dealt until December I thought, which sort of makes it difficult.

I'm trying to get a handle on that but can't figure it out:

A player that is resigned using Bird Rights can't be traded until January 15th. So if he stayed in Brooklyn, they couldn't trade him until January.

A player who signs as a free agent without Bird Rights can't be traded until December 15th, so if we had signed him outright, we couldn't trade him until December 15th.

But this situation is a little different. It was a sign-and-trade, which is a means of circumventing the first point above. If you execute a S&T with intent to trade, then the player can be traded as part of the transaction, which is what happened here. The question is, does the S&T essentially overwrite all of the free agent restrictions? Is Dinwiddie no longer considered a recently signed free agent, but instead merely a recently traded player? If so, then the only limit is that we can't package Dinwiddie with anyone else in a subsequent trade until 2 months have elapsed. And two months will have elapsed by next week.

FWIW, the RealGM Trade Checker says the trade can't be done until December 15th. But the Fanspo Trade Machine says it can happen on September 27th. RealGM is typically pretty accurate on these things so the December 15th restriction probably applies, but I'm not 100% sure.

[DCZards]

I want to note for the record, that many of those who complain about us being run like a second-rate franchise, are entertaining the notion of trading a guy who we went after pretty hard as a free agent, a guy who wanted to play here, before he’s even played a game for us for a guy wants to play in California so he can be a staple of TMZ. Talk about dirt bag move - I’m sure that would endear us in the hearts of free agents for years to come.

And the absolute best part, the real knee-slapper, doing it for a guy who is now showing he is willing to nuke a franchise that drafted him and has mollycoddled him every step of the way because they said time to grow up and show some maturity. And oh yeah, maybe show an ounce of passion/humility/whatever the hell, and learn how to be at least be below league average in arguably the most important skill on a basketball court, shooting.

A shot at greatness? You should duck your brains into reality before posting again, because this Simmons guy ain’t the one you should be willing to roll those dice on.

Even though I too understand the allure of Simmons’ talent, I agree with most of the points here, especially preferring an overachiever like Dinwiddie who wants to be here to an underachiever like Ben whose leadership skills and desire/ability to get better at maybe the most important skill in bball is questionable.

[Dat2U]

Simply dealing Rui & TB for CWood makes a big difference IMO. I really like that starting group. Very balanced offensively with solid rim protection.

F Christian Wood ... Kyle Kuzma ... Gill / Todd
F K. Caldwell-Pope ... Deni Avdija ... Corey Kispert
C Daniel Gafford ... Montrezl Harrell
G Bradley Beal ... Aaron Holiday
G Spencer Dinwiddie ... Raul Neto

I could see a high 40s or low 50s win total with good healthy.

I'm can see that. Rui has been the player hardest to fit into any line-up, looking for chemistry. His raw talent is undeniable. His defense is key a few match-ups per year, but currently his instincts and habits are questionable. He doesn't participate in pick and roll plays. Doesn't set screens. Doesn't know what to do in team defense or rebounding. Maybe Wes instills some fundamentals in him. But if I am swapping players with potential Wood is a target, sure. Not sure why for Houston though. Wood looks like a good fit next to Sengun.

Question though: where are you shipping Bertans with this scenario? Or is that an accidental omission. Maybe Bertans gets shuffled for picks since that's what Houston wants most.

As the number one defender of Davis on this board I can't believe I accidentally omitted him lol.

[payitforward]

Simply dealing Rui & TB for CWood makes a big difference IMO. I really like that starting group. Very balanced offensively with solid rim protection.

F Christian Wood ... Kyle Kuzma ... Gill / Todd
F K. Caldwell-Pope ... Deni Avdija ... Corey Kispert
C Daniel Gafford ... Montrezl Harrell
G Bradley Beal ... Aaron Holiday
G Spencer Dinwiddie ... Raul Neto

I could see a high 40s or low 50s win total with good healthy.

I'm can see that. Rui has been the player hardest to fit into any line-up, looking for chemistry. His raw talent is undeniable. His defense is key a few match-ups per year, but currently his instincts and habits are questionable. He doesn't participate in pick and roll plays. Doesn't set screens. Doesn't know what to do in team defense or rebounding. Maybe Wes instills some fundamentals in him. But if I am swapping players with potential Wood is a target, sure. Not sure why for Houston though. Wood looks like a good fit next to Sengun.

Question though: where are you shipping Bertans with this scenario? Or is that an accidental omission. Maybe Bertans gets shuffled for picks since that's what Houston wants most.

Rui & TB for Wood creates a problem with the luxury tax. Anyway, Ted's not trading Rui -- he has value beyond what he does on the court

(edit: "problem" -- b/c it takes us down to 14 players, & even the cheapest additional player to get back up to 15 would put us in luxury tax territory)

[Ruzious]

Simply dealing Rui & TB for CWood makes a big difference IMO. I really like that starting group. Very balanced offensively with solid rim protection.

F Christian Wood ... Kyle Kuzma ... Gill / Todd
F K. Caldwell-Pope ... Deni Avdija ... Corey Kispert
C Daniel Gafford ... Montrezl Harrell
G Bradley Beal ... Aaron Holiday
G Spencer Dinwiddie ... Raul Neto

I could see a high 40s or low 50s win total with good healthy.

I'm can see that. Rui has been the player hardest to fit into any line-up, looking for chemistry. His raw talent is undeniable. His defense is key a few match-ups per year, but currently his instincts and habits are questionable. He doesn't participate in pick and roll plays. Doesn't set screens. Doesn't know what to do in team defense or rebounding. Maybe Wes instills some fundamentals in him. But if I am swapping players with potential Wood is a target, sure. Not sure why for Houston though. Wood looks like a good fit next to Sengun.

Question though: where are you shipping Bertans with this scenario? Or is that an accidental omission. Maybe Bertans gets shuffled for picks since that's what Houston wants most.

Rui & TB for Wood creates a problem with the luxury tax. Anyway, Ted's not trading Rui -- he has value beyond what he does on the court.

Why would it create a lux tax issue - considering the 21/22 season salaries match up almost perfectly?