Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[SO_MONEY]

Rudy G not top 30 for you?

Perfect comp. Tough for me, since Gobert has put up historic numbers, in shots altered and in lowered number of shots in the paint, but yes, I wouldn’t be able to put him in a Top 30.

With 30 teams in the NBA, that would make him (or Simmons), the number one player on someone’s team. I can’t see that, especially with some teams having two players (and 3 in BRK) that are clearly better.

Ben Simmons .560 EFG. Solid.

And still his inability to shoot hurts his overall game and effects others, regardless of other positives.

[Note30]

One thing I wonder about is how much freedom Gupta actually has to negotiate and make a major trade. The organization is in complete disarray at the moment, which seems like a bad time to be trying to work on a franchise altering deal. I also worry about Glen Taylor becoming more involved in trade talks, since he seems pretty terrible at most everything related to actual basketball decisions.

In short: He will not have freedom. Certainly not to give up long-term assets.

He will eventually be fired without even having a chance of developing anything. Poor position to be in. I hope he at least gets a sizeable salary increase.

Why do you say that? From what I read, it seems like he's been pretty instrumental in trades before and given that Rosas wasn't fired for basketball reasons, it might actually be perfect.

He was offered a better role in Houston.

[shrink]

Rudy G not top 30 for you?

Perfect comp. Tough for me, since Gobert has put up historic numbers, in shots altered and in lowered number of shots in the paint, but yes, I wouldn’t be able to put him in a Top 30.

With 30 teams in the NBA, that would make him (or Simmons), the number one player on someone’s team. I can’t see that, especially with some teams having two players (and 3 in BRK) that are clearly better.

Ben Simmons .560 EFG. Solid.

DeAndre Jordan shot FG 76% last year, and is now on a minimum deal. Shooting is context.

[Foye]

One thing I wonder about is how much freedom Gupta actually has to negotiate and make a major trade. The organization is in complete disarray at the moment, which seems like a bad time to be trying to work on a franchise altering deal. I also worry about Glen Taylor becoming more involved in trade talks, since he seems pretty terrible at most everything related to actual basketball decisions.

In short: He will not have freedom. Certainly not to give up long-term assets.

He will eventually be fired without even having a chance of developing anything. Poor position to be in. I hope he at least gets a sizeable salary increase.

Why do you say that? From what I read, it seems like he's been pretty instrumental in trades before and given that Rosas wasn't fired for basketball reasons, it might actually be perfect.

He was offered a better role in Houston.

New ownership will want their guy in the front office. Don't think Gupta is their guy.

[KGdaBom]

Perfect comp. Tough for me, since Gobert has put up historic numbers, in shots altered and in lowered number of shots in the paint, but yes, I wouldn’t be able to put him in a Top 30.

With 30 teams in the NBA, that would make him (or Simmons), the number one player on someone’s team. I can’t see that, especially with some teams having two players (and 3 in BRK) that are clearly better.

Ben Simmons .560 EFG. Solid.

DeAndre Jordan shot FG 76% last year, and is now on a minimum deal. Shooting is context.

Simmons doesn't shoot well from distance so he's smart enough not to shoot from distance. It isn't rocket surgery. Does his presence on the court diminish the shooting performance of others? If it does than it matters. If it doesn't it doesn't matter.
A great study to do is to check the offensive efficiency of Simmons soon to be ex teammates for when he is on the court and when he isn't on the court.
I have no knowledge of what such a study would reveal. I would love to know the answer.

[Krapinsky]

Two (3?) years ago, MIN had five guys in their Top 100, including Jeff Teague.

I don’t believe anyone can be a top 30 player in today’s NBA if they can’t shoot.

Rudy G not top 30 for you?

Perfect comp. Tough for me, since Gobert has put up historic numbers, in shots altered and in lowered number of shots in the paint, but yes, I wouldn’t be able to put him in a Top 30.

With 30 teams in the NBA, that would make him (or Simmons), the number one player on someone’s team. I can’t see that, especially with some teams having two players (and 3 in BRK) that are clearly better.

I just think there aren’t enough good players to meet your qualifications as the #1 player on someone’s team. A lot of teams don’t have a player as good as Simmons or Gilbert. Cleveland? San Antonio? Orlando? Detroit? After the top 15-20 tier, all the players have their flaws or warts.

Here is #20-30

Kyrie
Bam
Holiday
Zion
Towns
Gobert
Ingram
Brown
Simmons
Westbrook
McCollum





The thing about a player like Rudy or Simmons, is you can pair them with a high volume scorer like Sexton and those guys are pretty easy to get. Does that combo make you a great team? No probably not, but it probably gets you in the top 1/2 of the league.

[KGdaBom]

Rudy G not top 30 for you?

Perfect comp. Tough for me, since Gobert has put up historic numbers, in shots altered and in lowered number of shots in the paint, but yes, I wouldn’t be able to put him in a Top 30.

With 30 teams in the NBA, that would make him (or Simmons), the number one player on someone’s team. I can’t see that, especially with some teams having two players (and 3 in BRK) that are clearly better.

I just think there aren’t enough good players to meet your qualifications as the #1 player on someone’s team. A lot of teams don’t have a player as good as Simmons or Gilbert. Cleveland? San Antonio? Orlando? Detroit? After the top 15-20 tier, all the players have their flaws or warts.

Here is #20-30

Kyrie
Bam
Holiday
Zion
Towns
Gobert
Ingram
Brown
Simmons
Westbrook
McCollum





The thing about a player like Rudy or Simmons, is you can pair them with a high volume scorer like Sexton and those guys are pretty easy to get. Does that combo make you a great team? No probably not, but it probably gets you in the top 1/2 of the league.

Most excellent post.

[Krapinsky]

Adding to my post above, you'll notice that most of the players in the top 20-30 range are not the best players on their own team.

Kyrie -- third best after Durant and Harden
Bam - second best after Butler
Holiday - second best after Giannis, arguably third best after Middleton
Zion - best on a bad team
Towns - best on a bad team
Gobert - second best after Mitchell
Ingram - second best after Zion on a bad team
Brown - second best after Tatum
Simmons - second best after Embiid
Westbrook - third best after Lebron, AD, previously second best after Beal on a mediocre team
Mccollum - second best after Lillard

[Note30]

In short: He will not have freedom. Certainly not to give up long-term assets.

He will eventually be fired without even having a chance of developing anything. Poor position to be in. I hope he at least gets a sizeable salary increase.

Why do you say that? From what I read, it seems like he's been pretty instrumental in trades before and given that Rosas wasn't fired for basketball reasons, it might actually be perfect.

He was offered a better role in Houston.

New ownership will want their guy in the front office. Don't think Gupta is their guy.

They've been here for three days who's their guys?

If they have formed opinions on who could best do the job already then we're doomed.

Reports say that Gupta will be given a shot at the FO main seat.

[fattymcgee]

ESPN NBA Rank put Simmons #28, behind #27 Jaylen Brown.

Two (3?) years ago, MIN had five guys in their Top 100, including Jeff Teague.

I don’t believe anyone can be a top 30 player in today’s NBA if they can’t shoot.

Giannis, Zion, Gobert not top 30?

[Klomp]

New ownership will want their guy in the front office. Don't think Gupta is their guy.

They've been here for three days who's their guys?

If they have formed opinions on who could best do the job already then we're doomed.

Reports say that Gupta will be given a shot at the FO main seat.

Not only are they new in town but both of them are fairly new to the sport as well.

"Their guy" basically just means they will have to choose for themselves at some point. It doesn't have to mean that someone already here has no shot at being that guy.

[moonpie]

From Reddit and Jon K's podcast:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy50cmFuc2lzdG9yLmZtL3RoZS1qb24ta3Jhd2N6eW5za2ktc2hvdy10aW1iZXJ3b2x2ZXM?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOy_e02pXzAhWj4rsIHaR2DdoQ9sEGegQIARAE

Rosas was likely getting fired near the end of the season regardless of the adultery revelations. Many staff members felt overworked and underappreciated. Although there were defenders of Rosas's leadership style who said those issues were mostly caused by the pandemic and that the demands from Rosas were like any other org.

They need to pull together and reset themselves and get their legs back underneath them before they can kinda go forward with any discussions regarding Ben Simmons. They will need to need to mend fences and repair some relationships that Rosas eroded but they still see Ben Simmons as a piece they would very much like to add to the Timberwolves. It should be noted that Sachin Gupta is an acquaintance of Morey and has a better relationship with him than Rosas and that numerous people in the Wolves org have a connection to someone in the 76ers. The only thing that has changed is who will do the negotiating.

Sachin Gupta is one of the reasons that the ownership group started the investigation into Rosas and the FO. Because Rosas barred him from leaving to Houston for money because he felt Gupta held too much knowledge about the Wolves plans and wanted for the draft to pass before letting him leave. This caused major strife between the two but it should be noted that many people in the NBA did say Rosas was within his rights to block Gupta's departure. After the draft was over Rosas let him leave but Gupta for whatever reason decided to stay.

Gupta is a very different type of personality to Rosas. Rosas was a big personality who wanted to be front and center and have a say in everything. Gupta is a quiet and reserved person who has plenty of connections around the league.

Gupta is on a trial run for the GM job while the owners diligently look into all of their options but certainly if he performs well in his role the job is his for the taking.

Jon thinks that everyone in the org from the staff to the players is shocked by the news and it paints the org in a bad light. But he thinks that once the reasoning came out a lot of people have understood that it needed to be done. He also thinks the players are most concerned about if something happens to their teammates,coaches or similar. That Rosas's firing and him not being around the HQ isn't something that will personally impact them day to day. Also barring any Ben Simmons trade the roster is set so they won't have to worry about that.

[NebWolvesFan]

I do wonder what Russell means to Gupta in relation to Rosas. Obviously, Rosas traded for Russell and considers Russell a core piece. In recent reporting, it sounds like Gupta thought Rosas overpaid for Russell. Gupta might not value Russell as much as Rosas did. I wonder if Gupta would be a lot more likely to include Russell in a Simmons trade than Rosas would.

[Note30]

I do wonder what Russell means to Gupta in relation to Rosas. Obviously, Rosas traded for Russell and considers Russell a core piece. In recent reporting, it sounds like Gupta thought Rosas overpaid for Russell. Gupta might not value Russell as much as Rosas did. I wonder if Gupta would be a lot more likely to include Russell in a Simmons trade than Rosas would.

So long as he doesn't trade Beasley as well. You need to keep one shooter of the two.

[moonpie]

Read on Twitter

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[KGdaBom]

Read on Twitter

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The feeling around the NBA and $6 can buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
I think it's obvious which has more value.

[SO_MONEY]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

The feeling around the NBA and $6 can buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
I think it's obvious which has more value.

It is not a joke if you have to explain it...

[kuclas]

Perfect comp. Tough for me, since Gobert has put up historic numbers, in shots altered and in lowered number of shots in the paint, but yes, I wouldn’t be able to put him in a Top 30.

With 30 teams in the NBA, that would make him (or Simmons), the number one player on someone’s team. I can’t see that, especially with some teams having two players (and 3 in BRK) that are clearly better.

Ben Simmons .560 EFG. Solid.

And still his inability to shoot hurts his overall game and effects others, regardless of other positives.

Not necessarily hurt his own team. The issue with the Sixers is Embiid is the number 1 option. The number 1 post play option in the league. He needs space.

With Minnesota. Towns attempts a ton of shots outside. Simmons gets to play more in the dunker spot.

It’s like the bucks with Lopez and Giannis. Lopez just hangs outside while allowing Giannis to operate.

But with Sixers. Why have Embiid sit outside when he’s the most dominant post player getting to free Throw line 10 plus times a game.

The Timberwolves have the most gifted outside shooting 7 footer in the league who actually likes to stay outside the restricted area. It’s a perfect fit.

Plus Simmons defense guarding 1-5 can alleviate pressure on towns as defensive big man anchor.

Watch games with Simmons and no Embiid. The offense is more wide open. Especially out western conference free flowing offenses. Watch Sixers vs Utah last season when Simmons put up 42 points. He ran wild. People have to remember just because Simmons can’t shoot. Doesn’t mean he can’t score. Especially in a todays nba transition game. And due to his sheer size he can get rebounds and put backs at the rim.

[BlacJacMac]

Watch games with Simmons and no Embiid. The offense is more wide open. Especially out western conference free flowing offenses. Watch Sixers vs Utah last season when Simmons put up 42 points. He ran wild. People have to remember just because Simmons can’t shoot. Doesn’t mean he can’t score. Especially in a todays nba transition game. And due to his sheer size he can get rebounds and put backs at the rim.

Ben hit 12/13 FTs in that game too!

[Domejandro]

I have a post breaking down Sam Amico somewhere on the forum, but for reference, he is the guy that said Minnesota would trade Kevin Love for Dion Waiters. I sincerely hope he is right, though, it would be cool to be done with this.