Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[shrink]

Honestly, I think Simmons, Maxey and '23 Unprotected 1st for an expiring Beal is reasonable especially if Minnesota with new ownership wanting to make a splash and a new GM on a long leash would give up 3-4 Unprotected 1st's plus Bev and Prince.

Two things should be mentioned that people might not be aware of.

1. ARod and Lore are still trying to decide who they want as their GM. They thought they had a season. Sachin Gupta certainly could earn the job by season’s end, but I doubt he has a long leash right now. A Simmons deal now would have to come from ARod, Lore (and Taylor), and Gupta would just be executing it. “Making a splash” now is a possibility, but the new owners only own 20%, and don’t have to come up with the next 20% until Dec 31, 2022.

2. Word is that Morey has a much better relationship with Gupta than Rosas, fwiw.

[76ersForLife]

Has this one been mentioned yet? 3 team deal.

Wizards get
Fox, Thybuille, Maxey

Kings get
Simmons and a Philly 1st round pick

76ers get
Beal

[SNPA]

Has this one been mentioned yet? 3 team deal.

Wizards get
Fox, Thybuille, Maxey

Kings get
Simmons and a Philly 1st round pick

76ers get
Beal

Like 90% of Kings fans don’t like a Fox for Simmons deal. A late first won’t move that much.

[JimmyPlopper]

Simmons I have as worth more than Beal and Fox so the above deal doesn't jive well with my view of value. Interesting swap among the three players though which may be able to be further reconciled with picks or swaps.

[Darthlukey]

Has this one been mentioned yet? 3 team deal.

Wizards get
Fox, Thybuille, Maxey

Kings get
Simmons and a Philly 1st round pick

76ers get
Beal

I think that Philly get punished here, the Kings do well and the Wizards do exceptional if they think Beal isnt going to stick around

[zimpy27]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

[Roy The Natural]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

[gambitx777]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

I think this topic just gets out of hand with the philly fans not wanting to admitt they don't have the next lebron like they think and people just clinging to his other stats like scoring doesn't matter, all the missed FT doesn't matter, all the sub optimal plays he forces doesn't matter. I don't think anyone's calling Ben a bad players but to pretend that his value is anywhere near Beal, Harden, Dame at this point is silly.

At this point the next tier down doesn't even seem like they are on the table and you have talking heads seriously floating the idea of wall out there, not guess like tony K or skip but basketball guys like Willbon and others. This, is gonna get ugly and it doesn't won't and probably never will end with philly getting anywhere close to fair value.

I'm harsh on Ben, I always have been, but the 76ers really miss handled this and they are equally to blame and at fault.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[zimpy27]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

Well the LEBRON stat puts them in the same tier for last season. Both 4A.

Multi year LEBRON in RS favours Beal and in playoffs it favours Ben.

Ben is on a long contract at 30m and Beal is up for a contract that will see him get 40m per season.

Also Ben is younger and hasn't been on a team that builds their strategy around him unlike Beal.


Weighing all this I have them same tier.

[Ballerhogger]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

Well the LEBRON stat puts them in the same tier for last season. Both 4A.

Multi year LEBRON in RS favours Beal and in playoffs it favours Ben.

Ben is on a long contract at 30m and Beal is up for a contract that will see him get 40m per season.

Also Ben is younger and hasn't been on a team that builds their strategy around him unlike Beal.


Weighing all this I have them same tier.

You can’t build around ben though . Your franchise player has to be able score 20 ppg as minimum

[Dat2U]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

I didn't know Beal was refusing to report to camp. Got a link?

[toooskies]

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

Well the LEBRON stat puts them in the same tier for last season. Both 4A.

Multi year LEBRON in RS favours Beal and in playoffs it favours Ben.

Ben is on a long contract at 30m and Beal is up for a contract that will see him get 40m per season.

Also Ben is younger and hasn't been on a team that builds their strategy around him unlike Beal.


Weighing all this I have them same tier.

You can’t build around ben though . Your franchise player has to be able score 20 ppg as minimum

Maybe he does on a team that doesn't run their offense through their center. People have been saying for years that Simmons and Embiid aren't a good match for each other because of that.

[Dat2U]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

Well the LEBRON stat puts them in the same tier for last season. Both 4A.

Multi year LEBRON in RS favours Beal and in playoffs it favours Ben.

Ben is on a long contract at 30m and Beal is up for a contract that will see him get 40m per season.

Also Ben is younger and hasn't been on a team that builds their strategy around him unlike Beal.


Weighing all this I have them same tier.

Why would anyone trust a stat that says Ben Simmons is a better option in the playoffs than Bradley Beal? Simmons performance in the playoffs is why we're even having this discussion lol!

[the_process]

Beal getting a bit overrated..
CJ is to Harris as Beal is to Simmons. Beal and Simmons are in a similar tier.

Are they?... I'm still waiting for someone to provide the objective evidence of Simmons' "massive" impact. Both RAPTOR and LEBRON (PIPM) have Beal as a significantly more impactful player. Then if we roll on over to counting stats it's hard to argue that 2 extra assists and 2 extra defensive rebounds bridges the gap of scoring over twice as many points (15.8ppg difference) on better efficiency.

I think this topic just gets out of hand with the philly fans not wanting to admitt they don't have the next lebron like they think and people just clinging to his other stats like scoring doesn't matter, all the missed FT doesn't matter, all the sub optimal plays he forces doesn't matter. I don't think anyone's calling Ben a bad players but to pretend that his value is anywhere near Beal, Harden, Dame at this point is silly.

At this point the next tier down doesn't even seem like they are on the table and you have talking heads seriously floating the idea of wall out there, not guess like tony K or skip but basketball guys like Willbon and others. This, is gonna get ugly and it doesn't won't and probably never will end with philly getting anywhere close to fair value.

I'm harsh on Ben, I always have been, but the 76ers really miss handled this and they are equally to blame and at fault.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Factoring in "talking head analysis" is silly. Half these guys don't know their head from their arse and the other half are being fed stories by agents.

That being said, it's obvious Ben is a tier down now from Beal and LaVine. Dame it's likely two tiers, although the floor could drop out at any time from Lillard due to age and usage.

[pipfan]

I really like the Fox-Beal-Simmons deal, for all teams. Lots of other pieces could be included, but
Philly gets a top 3 2nd option in Beal (only behind AD/Harden as 2nd options, I'd say). I am sure Beal would want to stay with a center like Embiid, and go for titles

Wash gets Fox, who is still very young, and they could build around him, Rui, Demi and their other young guys. Tank the year and add a top 5 pick-and they could be good in 2023. Plus, Fox seems very likable

Sac needs a shakeup, and they have Haliburton. I like Hali/Heild/Barnes/Simmons/Holmes as their 5, with Mitchell and Bagley as their main bench pieces. Simmons might blossom with shooting around him, and as the clear-cut top dog

[SharpyShuffle]

Well the LEBRON stat puts them in the same tier for last season. Both 4A.

Multi year LEBRON in RS favours Beal and in playoffs it favours Ben.

Ben is on a long contract at 30m and Beal is up for a contract that will see him get 40m per season.

Also Ben is younger and hasn't been on a team that builds their strategy around him unlike Beal.


Weighing all this I have them same tier.

You can’t build around ben though . Your franchise player has to be able score 20 ppg as minimum

Maybe he does on a team that doesn't run their offense through their center. People have been saying for years that Simmons and Embiid aren't a good match for each other because of that.

Literally every team that people hypothesise Ben on there are some kind of fit issues. Put him with KAT! But...who protects the rim? Put him on the Cavs! But...where is the spacing? Put him with Dame! But...what is Ben actually doing on Offense when Dame is doing his thing dominating the ball?

He's just a really awkward fit basically anywhere. You need a stretch five who can still defend like a regular five, and you need a guard who can handle the ball for crunch time, but also play offball. It's just hard to find a team with players he would gel well with. It's not like dudes like Beal who would fit anywhere. Shooters fit easily (hence why the Nets work so well). Non-shooters don't

[Texas Chuck]

Literally every team that people hypothesise Ben on there are some kind of fit issues

This is true though for basically every player. And while some of those concerns are real, mostly they are overblown.

Take my little Mavs. He's not a great fit with Luka offensively. And Kleber/Finney-Smith definitely are. But so what? The talent upgrade is so significant it outweighs the lack of ideal fit.

Lebron and Wade weren't a great fit, but you know having arguably the two best players in the world at the time means its gonna work and all they did was go to the Finals every year, win 2 titles and only lose to two deep veteran teams led by all-time greats.

Take your Towns example. That's a Towns problem, not a Simmons problem. Towns' defensive issues are going to be there regardless, but what PF realistically available is a better complement than Simmons? There isn't one. You can't get Giannis so...

Or Dame has played with Aminu or DJJ or Melo at PF. How in the world can anyone think a "fit" issue with Simmons isn't a massive upgrade on that?

[jayjaysee]

Don’t think this will go well but we’ve done Sexton to death, can we bring back Garland?

Love, 2022 Cleveland first to Houston
EG, Garland, Okoro to Philly
Curry, DJ, Simmons to Cleveland

How much more is Philly owed? A first? Or more? Not sure how Okoro is valued vs Curry. Houston getting a first for the 20~ mil difference seems right?

Curry/Sexton/Simmons/Lauri/Allen with Mobley/Cedi/Rubio seems interesting.

[Ballerhogger]

Don’t think this will go well but we’ve done Sexton to death, can we bring back Garland?

Love, 2022 Cleveland first to Houston
EG, Garland, Okoro to Philly
Curry, DJ, Simmons to Cleveland

How much more is Philly owed? A first? Or more? Not sure how Okoro is valued vs Curry. Houston getting a first for the 20~ mil difference seems right?

Curry/Sexton/Simmons/Lauri/Allen with Mobley/Cedi/Rubio seems interesting.

Rockets pass they wont no part of love contract. They already have wall if you can move wall then yes. That first rounder probably not going be top 5 pick so they cant use that to trade wall or love.

[toooskies]

You can’t build around ben though . Your franchise player has to be able score 20 ppg as minimum

Maybe he does on a team that doesn't run their offense through their center. People have been saying for years that Simmons and Embiid aren't a good match for each other because of that.

Literally every team that people hypothesise Ben on there are some kind of fit issues. Put him with KAT! But...who protects the rim? Put him on the Cavs! But...where is the spacing? Put him with Dame! But...what is Ben actually doing on Offense when Dame is doing his thing dominating the ball?

He's just a really awkward fit basically anywhere. You need a stretch five who can still defend like a regular five, and you need a guard who can handle the ball for crunch time, but also play offball. It's just hard to find a team with players he would gel well with. It's not like dudes like Beal who would fit anywhere. Shooters fit easily (hence why the Nets work so well). Non-shooters don't

All those issues you bring up are issues that pre-exist on the team. Minnesota already has rim protector issues. The Cavs already have spacing issues. Portland already has a fit issue with Dame.

Honestly I think the Cavs solve improve their spacing by trading their poor floor-spacers to Philly-- swapping Rubio/Osman/Okoro/pick(s) or Rubio/Osman/Mobley for Simmons probably improves the Cavs' spacing by taking bad shooters out of the rotation, and Philly can absorb those guys in their rotation with Thybulle being the only non-Simmons shooting liability currently on their roster.