Porzingis and Zach LaVine

[DJ_3_Ball]

Is anybody else worried that Luka's future with the Mavericks may very well rest on how well KP plays the first 6 weeks of this season?

I know I am. Know that Luka's signed the $200 mil extension, the Mavs cap space is gone next summer. They didn't sign Lowry or any other FA of note this off-season. Not anyone that takes up that $25+ mil in cap space they had available.

If KP doesn't play better than he played this past season, especially in the playoffs, then Mavs are saddled with his contract for 2 more years, and won't get anything of value for him in a trade. I think if KP did have any trade value he'd be gone.

Mavs haven't added that second star, and I don't think KP is going to work out here. Even if he returns to form, I believe the real value there is it restores his trade value. If he doesn't return to form, then 2 more years of Luka playing without a 2nd star = No mas Luka con Los Dallas Mavericks. I even think Luka could take the Mavs to the Finals, like the way LeBron did in 2007, but Luka would still leave Dallas.

So who can the Mavs pick up? From everything I've heard, it sounds like the most realistic target is Zach LaVine---IF and only IF the Bulls don't have playoff success this season. Also, seems like LaVine wants to be a #1, but he may get tired of never having won more than 4 games in a row in his professional career, and be more inclined to join a legit star like Luka.

Somehow the Mavs come up with enough ammo to persuade the Bulls to do a sign & trade for LaVine (or maybe LaVine is wanting out by the All Star break, if the Bulls flop during the season). I don't think we're getting Dame. Can't think of anyone else who might be a fit. Of course, ya never know what might develop.

I feel like more than rooting for the Mavs this season, I'm rooting for 2 things:

1) KP to play well early in the season

2) The Bulls to have more injuries than any other team in the league lol

[Mavrelous]

Luka is locked up in contract, and while I'm no longer a Cuban fan, he knows he landed on a gold mine, which will keep his team's valuation sky high for the next 10 years, he will not let Luka go anywhere.
Mavs are not tax payers this year, the next 2 years they can pay tax without fear of repeater tax, and they can easily increase their payroll to 150-160 mils, while having lots of spare parts for trades, if you look at what Nico did, he approached the FA market very conservatively, overpaid for THJ but made it a declining contract, and signed to wings that provide 3&D on a very cheap deals.

It doesn't have to be LaVine, LaVine is the face of the Bulls franchise and they won't let him go, there are many options to play next Luka, the team doesn't need a 2nd star, the team needs a decent scorer/ball handler (Dragic, McCollum, FVV types, and all 3 in the right situation could be available by the deadline), and to consolidate 2-3 of the 5 centers they have into big forward (Thaddeus Young for example).

A healthy KP and Kleber can make a world of difference this year, and one major problem from last year was already addressed, wing defense and depth.

[DJ_3_Ball]

KhalilS,

You bring up a decent point about the repeater tax. However, I disagree with most of the rest of what you said.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Luka will try to force his way out in the next 3 years. But, if it's 3 years from now, and KP never plays any better than he has, and Luka's best "co-star" is THJ all the while the Mavs have gone 5 years in a row never making it to the WCF while Luka plays at an All NBA 1st Team level. All of that equals bye, bye Luka.

In 3 years Luka, will be going into his 3rd year of a 5 year extension. It's really a 4 year contract because the 5th year is a player option. In year 4, the Mavs wouldn't risk losing a player like Luka without receiving any compensation, IF they knew he was unhappy and wasn't resigning. And we've seen numerous star players recently force their way outta town with 2 years left of their contract. There were serious rumors that Dame Lilliard wanted to do it this off season with 3 years left on his contract. It's not like Luka's signed to X number of years with the Mavs, so that means he's guaranteed to play out every year of his contract with the Mavs. Doesn't happen like that any more.

Where we really disagree is that the Mavs can be successful without a better 2nd co-star for Luka. If they had signed, THJ, and Bullock, and a player like Gary Trent Jr or Duncan Robinson and find a way to flip KP for something solid, and just go Luka with 4 knock down shooters, then I might be more willing to except that idea. THJ is inconsistent. I don't really view him as an asset because he'll shoot you right out of a game, just like he did in game 7 vs LAC last year. And Bullock isn't enough.

Also, LaVine is a FA next year. Sure the Bulls don't want to let him get away. That's why they've made all of the moves they have recently, but if LaVine is unhappy, and he's basically said "The Bulls need to win this year for me to be happy here", then LaVine is out the door.

[41Dirk41]

I'm agree with DJ_3_Ball but i'm high on KP this year, i bet on him.

[DJ_3_Ball]

I'm agree with DJ_3_Ball but i'm high on KP this year, i bet on him.

I'm cautiously optimistic. It would make sense for KP to be healthier and play better at the start of this season, but who knows about how everything will shake out with the new coaching staff.

Seems like a pretty good chance of KP playing better this season at the start, but maybe not more than 60%. I don't think there's much of a chance of KP playing somewhere in the middle, meaning the other 40% chance is KP plays really bad, like he did in the playoffs.

[Mr B]

KhalilS,

You bring up a decent point about the repeater tax. However, I disagree with most of the rest of what you said.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Luka will try to force his way out in the next 3 years. But, if it's 3 years from now, and KP never plays any better than he has, and Luka's best "co-star" is THJ all the while the Mavs have gone 5 years in a row never making it to the WCF while Luka plays at an All NBA 1st Team level. All of that equals bye, bye Luka.

In 3 years Luka, will be going into his 3rd year of a 5 year extension. It's really a 4 year contract because the 5th year is a player option. In year 4, the Mavs wouldn't risk losing a player like Luka without receiving any compensation, IF they knew he was unhappy and wasn't resigning. And we've seen numerous star players recently force their way outta town with 2 years left of their contract. There were serious rumors that Dame Lilliard wanted to do it this off season with 3 years left on his contract. It's not like Luka's signed to X number of years with the Mavs, so that means he's guaranteed to play out every year of his contract with the Mavs. Doesn't happen like that any more.

Where we really disagree is that the Mavs can be successful without a better 2nd co-star for Luka. If they had signed, THJ, and Bullock, and a player like Gary Trent Jr or Duncan Robinson and find a way to flip KP for something solid, and just go Luka with 4 knock down shooters, then I might be more willing to except that idea. THJ is inconsistent. I don't really view him as an asset because he'll shoot you right out of a game, just like he did in game 7 vs LAC last year. And Bullock isn't enough.

Also, LaVine is a FA next year. Sure the Bulls don't want to let him get away. That's why they've made all of the moves they have recently, but if LaVine is unhappy, and he's basically said "The Bulls need to win this year for me to be happy here", then LaVine is out the door.

If KP does not improve over what we have seen from him to this point he won’t be in Dallas beyond the 2023 off season, 2024 trade deadline at the latest. His $36M expiring contract becomes the best way for the Mavs to acquire at better player.

[TOMSPY77]

Outside take without any malice intended but:

No way do the Bulls want anything to do with KP unless you are throwing in lots of other compensation...you said yourself why that is based on how KP is playing...besides, Zach he is not leaving, I think we are playoff bound.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Outside take without any malice intended but:

No way do the Bulls want anything to do with KP unless you are throwing in lots of other compensation...you said yourself why that is based on how KP is playing...besides, Zach he is not leaving, I think we are playoff bound.

I'm definitely not saying KP to CHI for LaVine. Book it! Lol.

I'm not one to usually fearmonger or be pessimistic, but I just think the Mavs had a horrendous offseason. Missed one of their last opportunities to truly improve the team, and mentioning this as a bit of a far-fetched example.

That said, I think there's a 50/50 shot KP comes back and plays better for the variety of reasons everyone thinks he might be better. A real off-season, more time to strengthen his legs, etc. I also think the guy is a problem player, and might have spent this off season at more LA strip clubs. He could come back and be a total bust, like he was vs the Clippers.

So, any trade for KP hinges on him starting this season like he was playing at the end of the 19-20 season.

Bulls are an improved team, but not on defense. Patrick Williams is hurt now for the next 4-6 weeks. He's about the only Bull who can play defense. I think the Bulls could make the playoffs as the 6th seed, get bounced in the 1st round in 5 games, and LaVine leaves. There's no reason to think "Zach is not leaving". That's just wishful thinking. He might stay, but he's already been pretty vocal about wanting to be paid like a top star in the league and wanting to play for a contender. It'd go a lot further for the Bulls if they made the 2nd round this year, and if they struggle, have bad luck with injuries, etc. and miss the playoffs, then I really believe you'll be missing #8 next season.

[JJP]

So, any trade for KP hinges on him starting this season like he was playing at the end of the 19-20 season.

If he plays like he did in 2019-2020, they wouldn't trade him. If he plays like he did at the end of last season, KP won't be good enough to trade for Z. Lavine by himself.

I have a hard time imagining the same KP that ended last season. As much work as he's done this off-season, I suspect he will be improved. However, this in no way suggests that he will be all-star material. If he is all-star material, it will because of his defense and there's no way that Mavs would trade him given their own defensive deficiencies. More likely is that he will be good, and not great - in which case we are back to square one from 2019. We need another high-caliber player.

[DJ_3_Ball]

So, any trade for KP hinges on him starting this season like he was playing at the end of the 19-20 season.

If he plays like he did in 2019-2020, they wouldn't trade him. If he plays like he did at the end of last season, KP won't be good enough to trade for Z. Lavine by himself.

I have a hard time imagining the same KP that ended last season. As much work as he's done this off-season, I suspect he will be improved. However, this in no way suggests that he will be all-star material. If he is all-star material, it will because of his defense and there's no way that Mavs would trade him given their own defensive deficiencies. More likely is that he will be good, and not great - in which case we are back to square one from 2019. We need another high-caliber player.

A lot of Mavs fans and folks on this forum tend to think in terms of Black & White. For example, Rick Carlisle is a superb X's & Ox's coach, therefore, Rick Carlisle is a superb coach. They dismiss or discount his ability to manage personalities.

Tim MacMahon just said on the Hoop Collective's latest episode that Porzingis wanted a trade at the end of the last season. He said, "Last season wasn't good. Porzingis wasn't happy with Luka. Luka's relationship with KP was tense, and Carlisle was ill-equipped to handle the situation because Carlisle didn't have a good relationship with either player."

I don't think Luka & KP are able to put things back together. Not unless the Mavs send most of next season in the top 2 or 3 of the West and KP is playing phenomenal.

The Mavs will move KP if he becomes a locker room problem. You can believe that. I think Kidd was brought in because he does have the people skills to help manage these personalities, but everything has its limits.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Out of curiosity, how many people here think if you replaced Porzingis with Zach LaVine on the Mavs roster this year that they'd be a top 3 or 4 title contender?

[dirkdiggler4177]

What matters is if Porzingis and Luka can become a tandem. It's just insane that they have not been able to develop a pick-and-pop game together. Porzingis got all the tools, he just needs a coach that is able to put him in the right situations.

[Mr B]

So, any trade for KP hinges on him starting this season like he was playing at the end of the 19-20 season.

If he plays like he did in 2019-2020, they wouldn't trade him. If he plays like he did at the end of last season, KP won't be good enough to trade for Z. Lavine by himself.

I have a hard time imagining the same KP that ended last season. As much work as he's done this off-season, I suspect he will be improved. However, this in no way suggests that he will be all-star material. If he is all-star material, it will because of his defense and there's no way that Mavs would trade him given their own defensive deficiencies. More likely is that he will be good, and not great - in which case we are back to square one from 2019. We need another high-caliber player.

A lot of Mavs fans and folks on this forum tend to think in terms of Black & White. For example, Rick Carlisle is a superb X's & Ox's coach, therefore, Rick Carlisle is a superb coach. They dismiss or discount his ability to manage personalities.

Tim MacMahon just said on the Hoop Collective's latest episode that Porzingis wanted a trade at the end of the last season. He said, "Last season wasn't good. Porzingis wasn't happy with Luka. Luka's relationship with KP was tense, and Carlisle was ill-equipped to handle the situation because Carlisle didn't have a good relationship with either player."

I don't think Luka & KP are able to put things back together. Not unless the Mavs send most of next season in the top 2 or 3 of the West and KP is playing phenomenal.

The Mavs will move KP if he becomes a locker room problem. You can believe that. I think Kidd was brought in because he does have the people skills to help manage these personalities, but everything has its limits.

I have a feeling Kidd is actually do wonders for KP’s career. By all the reports coming out KP no longer wants to be traded and is excited and extremely motivated for this season with the Mavs. I really do think the problem was Carlisle. He has a way of alienating players (even star players) and it appears that’s what he was doing with KP.

Carlisle isn’t an issue anymore. I really think we are going to see a more dialed in KP this year. Also I think if KP was hanging out at the LA strip clubs we would have seen pictures. It’s not like that guy can walk around incognito.

[Mr B]

Out of curiosity, how many people here think if you replaced Porzingis with Zach LaVine on the Mavs roster this year that they'd be a top 3 or 4 title contender?

With that move alone no they would not be title contenders. They would have a huge hole at center. I mean they have guys that can play center but they would need a major upgrade there. LaVine would elevate himself into superstar status if he played with Luka though.

[Apz]

What are we talking about here? Regular season KP or PO KP? It worked in regualr season decently, KP averaged 20/10, then he was out like 2 weeks before PO and somehow happened to get healthy for when it started and sucked. Im like 90% sure he wasnt healthy, but its the po and in the po u shut up and play. Im prretty sure it will be good this season. Shouldnt be able to challenge for the ring, but, with luka, who really knows? Im not counting us out. Add all those covid stuff and that a guy like kleber never got up to speed after his and it can get a lot better.

And lets not be counting out KP because of a bad PO. Not like he were the only "star" that had a pretty damn horrible po. PG sucked half the games vs us. Randle, allstar, sucked horribly. Simmons shot like 3 shots in a 7 game series. As someone said, in mavs forum its heaven and hell, nothing between. Cant see any of those teams fabs want to dump their 2nd stars for **** klove and **** that we see here. Sure, would consider one of them for KP but I cant really see the fit other then PG, and I think we are a year away for balmer to freak out and do something like that.

Just saying that if u gonna totally judge only by last PO, it have to be done on all that failed and not just KP.

Personally, if simmons stock falls far enough, it might...I hate to say it but, a KP Luka Simmons might actually work even tho I always is against putting anyone shooting less then 38 from 3 on the floor with luka. But if so it ben as center in offense and running picks with luka

[DJ_3_Ball]

Out of curiosity, how many people here think if you replaced Porzingis with Zach LaVine on the Mavs roster this year that they'd be a top 3 or 4 title contender?

With that move alone no they would not be title contenders. They would have a huge hole at center. I mean they have guys that can play center but they would need a major upgrade there. LaVine would elevate himself into superstar status if he played with Luka though.

Mavs had a huge hole at center last year with KP, and honestly if they did have someone to protect the rim, they would have gotten past the Clippers. The other problem they had is when Luka was on the court they were dominant all series vs the Clippers. The few minutes Luka went off the court, the Mavs had no one to put the ball in the basket, which is why I hate the THJ signing. The Mavs treat him like he's a get his own shot kind of scorer, but he's not.

LaVine is. If the Mavs had LaVine, they'd really address that "Where are the points going to come from when Luka sits???" dilemma. Honestly, with Luka on the court, the Mavs can beat anyone in the NBA. I'm just worried about when he inevitably has to sit.

Also, I'm hopeful Moses Brown can address some of the Mavs issues with rim protection.

[41Dirk41]

Dragic is the man for those 10minutes.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Dragic is the man for those 10minutes.

When Dragic can see the floor. My main reason for wanting Dragic here is to have another player Luka really respects to mentor him and keep Luka happy.

Dragic can certainly make some things happen on the court still, but he doesn't suit up for games nearly as often as he used to.

[Mr B]

Out of curiosity, how many people here think if you replaced Porzingis with Zach LaVine on the Mavs roster this year that they'd be a top 3 or 4 title contender?

With that move alone no they would not be title contenders. They would have a huge hole at center. I mean they have guys that can play center but they would need a major upgrade there. LaVine would elevate himself into superstar status if he played with Luka though.

Mavs had a huge hole at center last year with KP, and honestly if they did have someone to protect the rim, they would have gotten past the Clippers. The other problem they had is when Luka was on the court they were dominant all series vs the Clippers. The few minutes Luka went off the court, the Mavs had no one to put the ball in the basket, which is why I hate the THJ signing. The Mavs treat him like he's a get his own shot kind of scorer, but he's not.

LaVine is. If the Mavs had LaVine, they'd really address that "Where are the points going to come from when Luka sits???" dilemma. Honestly, with Luka on the court, the Mavs can beat anyone in the NBA. I'm just worried about when he inevitably has to sit.

Also, I'm hopeful Moses Brown can address some of the Mavs issues with rim protection.

I really think Brunson will continue to develop as a PG. He’s not going to be the scorer that gets those points when Luka is out but he should be able to help several of the bench guys average 8-12 points per game each. So they’re not going to get a bulk of those points from 1 guy but should be able to get them from a number of guys spread out.

[Mr B]

Dragic is the man for those 10minutes.

When Dragic can see the floor. My main reason for wanting Dragic here is to have another player Luka really respects to mentor him and keep Luka happy.

Dragic can certainly make some things happen on the court still, but he doesn't suit up for games nearly as often as he used to.

I still think he’ll be available at the trade deadline for a reasonable price. If not he will definitely sign next off season.