Ben Simmons Trade Thread part V

[76ciology]

How high is the chance that Maxey will be a better player than Anthony Edwards in 3 years?

Above 50% or below 50%?

How about next season? Above 50% or below 50%?

[erving4ever]

Would you guys be alright if Morey just went out and traded for a wing scorer and opted to gamble with Tyrese at the point?

[stormi]

FVV is literally my NUMBER ONE do not trade for player. I’d rather get wall+++ FVV is 28, very undersized, and in his first real high volume offensive season last year shot 39 percent from the field and 39 from 3. Like he’s 2 years younger than CJ and one year younger than Brogdon. But WAY WORSE. What is the obsession

I actually do rate FVV somewhat. His FG% can be a bit misleading, it's like with Isaiah Joe at Arkansas. Players who's field goal volume are heavily concentrated from 3, so their FG% and 3P% are more blurred than with your average player. He's little, but he's a strong defender. He's solid off the bounce, shoots a lot of 3's and he's a viable playmaker (>6 APG in consecutive seasons).

I have FVV > Harris comfortably. I just don't love Siakam, he's a pretty lowskill roleplayer that can't dribble and looked shocking trying to lead the Raptors in a weak East this year. And Andrew Wiggins is horrific, awful, terrible.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving up two starters along with Maxey and a frp for no premium assets in return and a handicap to a FVV/Wiggins/Bellpepper/Jo core. There's higher upside elsewhere.

Sorry stormi but i disagree.

I find FVV’s points per shot (1.17?) and TS% to be bad, while Dejounte Murray is worse 1.08 points per FGA.

And I find comfort to know that Morey hate these type of guys.

He's valuable when he can be deployed in a manner that elevates his skillset. He's a secondary playmaker out of the halfcourt that will bomb away 3's and plays good defense. It isn't much deeper than that. I have an issue with FVV running my team, but he was money for years playing alongside a dominant ballhandler like Lowry.



on/offs have been extremely positive for his entire career. FVV is a winning player.

[76ciology]

Would you guys be alright if Morey just went out and traded for a wing scorer and opted to gamble with Tyrese at the point?

With or without the wing scorer, Maxey will have high chance at the point.

These days you can run and it’s even preferred to run a combo guard set-up.

Maxey also isnt a point god that he is CP3 or LeBron where he needs the ball 90% of the entire possession. Maxey is more of a secondary ball handler and would be great playing with another combo guard scorer/playmaker.

[Sportfan73]

Don't love this tbh.

FVV is literally my NUMBER ONE do not trade for player. I’d rather get wall+++ FVV is 28, very undersized, and in his first real high volume offensive season last year shot 39 percent from the field and 39 from 3. Like he’s 2 years younger than CJ and one year younger than Brogdon. But WAY WORSE. What is the obsession

I actually do rate FVV somewhat. His FG% can be a bit misleading, it's like with Isaiah Joe at Arkansas. Players who's field goal volume are heavily concentrated from 3, so their FG% and 3P% are more blurred than with your average player. He's little, but he's a strong defender. He's solid off the bounce, shoots a lot of 3's and he's a viable playmaker (>6 APG in consecutive seasons).

I have FVV > Harris comfortably. I just don't love Siakam, he's a pretty lowskill roleplayer that can't dribble and looked shocking trying to lead the Raptors in a weak East this year. And Andrew Wiggins is horrific, awful, terrible.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving up two starters along with Maxey and a frp for no premium assets in return and a handicap to a FVV/Wiggins/Bellpepper/Jo core. There's higher upside elsewhere.

He’s undersized and 28 already and is a CAREER 42 percent shooter from TWO. CJ 48.5 and Brogdon 50.6. That’s not starter material in this league for an offensive player.

[ConstableChaos]

Sixers Receive: Buddy Hield, Derrick White, 2 lightly protect Sacrament 1st’s

Sacramento Receives: Ben Simmons

Spurs Receive: Marvin Bagley and Shake Milton

Spurs should get one of those firsts

[Sportfan73]

Would you guys be alright if Morey just went out and traded for a wing scorer and opted to gamble with Tyrese at the point?

If it was like Ingram I could get behind it

[76ciology]

I actually do rate FVV somewhat. His FG% can be a bit misleading, it's like with Isaiah Joe at Arkansas. Players who's field goal volume are heavily concentrated from 3, so their FG% and 3P% are more blurred than with your average player. He's little, but he's a strong defender. He's solid off the bounce, shoots a lot of 3's and he's a viable playmaker (>6 APG in consecutive seasons).

I have FVV > Harris comfortably. I just don't love Siakam, he's a pretty lowskill roleplayer that can't dribble and looked shocking trying to lead the Raptors in a weak East this year. And Andrew Wiggins is horrific, awful, terrible.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving up two starters along with Maxey and a frp for no premium assets in return and a handicap to a FVV/Wiggins/Bellpepper/Jo core. There's higher upside elsewhere.

Sorry stormi but i disagree.

I find FVV’s points per shot (1.17?) and TS% to be bad, while Dejounte Murray is worse 1.08 points per FGA.

And I find comfort to know that Morey hate these type of guys.

He's valuable when he can be deployed in a manner that elevates his skillset. He's a secondary playmaker out of the halfcourt that will bomb away 3's and plays good defense. It isn't much deeper than that. I have an issue with FVV running my team, but he was money for years playing alongside a dominant ballhandler like Lowry.



on/offs have been extremely positive for his entire career. FVV is a winning player.

On/off is highly misleading, its very context dependent.

If you put Ben at Detroit, he’d be a low impact player.

If you put Buddy Hield with the Sixers, he’d likely have the same plus impact with JJ or Seth.

[Sportfan73]

I actually do rate FVV somewhat. His FG% can be a bit misleading, it's like with Isaiah Joe at Arkansas. Players who's field goal volume are heavily concentrated from 3, so their FG% and 3P% are more blurred than with your average player. He's little, but he's a strong defender. He's solid off the bounce, shoots a lot of 3's and he's a viable playmaker (>6 APG in consecutive seasons).

I have FVV > Harris comfortably. I just don't love Siakam, he's a pretty lowskill roleplayer that can't dribble and looked shocking trying to lead the Raptors in a weak East this year. And Andrew Wiggins is horrific, awful, terrible.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving up two starters along with Maxey and a frp for no premium assets in return and a handicap to a FVV/Wiggins/Bellpepper/Jo core. There's higher upside elsewhere.

Sorry stormi but i disagree.

I find FVV’s points per shot (1.17?) and TS% to be bad, while Dejounte Murray is worse 1.08 points per FGA.

And I find comfort to know that Morey hate these type of guys.

He's valuable when he can be deployed in a manner that elevates his skillset. He's a secondary playmaker out of the halfcourt that will bomb away 3's and plays good defense. It isn't much deeper than that. I have an issue with FVV running my team, but he was money for years playing alongside a dominant ballhandler like Lowry.



on/offs have been extremely positive for his entire career. FVV is a winning player.

Toronto seems like one of those places similar to SA years ago. You can’t trust those type of numbers they would most likely fall off of a cliff when he went elsewhere

[76ciology]

You guys shouldnt put too much value on the on/off or their impact.

You look at the teams were trading with. These teams are mostly bad teams.

We’re getting more value in return kind of the arbitrage because its a guy who’s branded as a loser low impact guy for our winner high impact guy.

And that could change once both swap teams.

If you trade Ben for Bagley. Ben could look like a loser with the Kings and Bagley would look like a plus player.

Teams are trading Ben MOSTLY because of Ben’s impact being way higher than the player they’re trading.

[stormi]

Sorry stormi but i disagree.

I find FVV’s points per shot (1.17?) and TS% to be bad, while Dejounte Murray is worse 1.08 points per FGA.

And I find comfort to know that Morey hate these type of guys.

He's valuable when he can be deployed in a manner that elevates his skillset. He's a secondary playmaker out of the halfcourt that will bomb away 3's and plays good defense. It isn't much deeper than that. I have an issue with FVV running my team, but he was money for years playing alongside a dominant ballhandler like Lowry.



on/offs have been extremely positive for his entire career. FVV is a winning player.

On/off is highly misleading, its very context dependent.

If you put Ben at Detroit, he’d be a low impact player.

If you put Buddy Hield with the Sixers, he’d likely have the same plus impact with JJ or Seth.

On/offs add context to how your team performs relative to your individual performance. There are players that promote winning irrespective of the quality of team around them. Budding stars like Booker and Trae Young have always displayed heavy greens in impact metrics even on poor squads because they are talent elevators. You can't control how your team performs with you not on the floor. Through over 7000 minutes of compiled data, the Toronto Raptors have been significantly better when FVV is on the floor, he's a consummate supporting cast player.

His playmaking promotes winning and so does his shotmaking ability from beyond.

[stormi]

You guys shouldnt put too much value on the on/off or their impact.

You look at the teams were trading with. These teams are mostly bad teams.

We’re getting more value in return kind of the arbitrage because its a guy who’s branded as a loser low impact guy for our winner high impact guy.

And that could change once both swap teams.

If you trade Ben for Bagley. Ben could look like a loser with the Kings and Bagley would look like a plus player.

Teams are trading Ben MOSTLY because of Ben’s impact being way higher than the player they’re trading.

This isn't how it works. Good players can have strong +/- stats on bad teams. And bad players can have bad +/- stats on good teams.

[76ciology]

Another thing is Ben’s value isnt that high that you can get your ideal guy like Durant.

If you’re NOT getting a high valued guy, then you might as well have a guy who’s value is funneled into something your team values.

And for me, that is scoring.

So if you’re going to ask me which I’d prefer between MPJ or Rudy Gobert in exchange for Ben, I’d prefer MPJ.

You’re getting a lot of wasted value on other stuffs like passing, defense and so forth in guys like FVV or Murray. Those are valued skillset but not as valued as scoring.

If you put Zach Lavine or Bradley Beal here, they probably average 25+ppg and be an all NBA team member.

[Sportfan73]

Another thing is Ben’s value isnt that high that you can get your ideal guy like Durant.

If you’re NOT getting a high valued guy, then you might as well have a guy who’s value is funneled into something your team values.

And for me, that is scoring.

So if you’re going to ask me which I’d prefer between MPJ or Rudy Gobert in exchange for Ben, I’d prefer MPJ.

You’re getting a lot of wasted value on other stuffs like passing, defense and so forth in guys like FVV or Murray. Those are valued skillset but not as valued as scoring.

If you put Zach Lavine or Bradley Beal here, they probably average 25+ppg and be an all NBA team member.

I would take sexton over FVV even in a vacuum. That efficiency with no upside is YUCK to me

[stormi]

ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤoncourtㅤㅤㅤon/off

Player A: ㅤ-2.2ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ-11.9
Player B: ㅤ+0.5ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ+8.5

Player A played 1200 minutes on a team with a 68 win % this year and secured HCA
Player B played 1700 minutes on a team that won 43% of their games and missed the playoffs badly

Ballers will ball.

[76ciology]

FVV goes be a good impact player, but so is Ben.

And like Ben, if he’s on our team. We’ll still be always looking for “THAT GUY” who can score.

And rather than making trades to fill your needs, you’ll be making trades to be in a loop.

Since 2018, the problem has always been about needing another scorer. And you’re going to trade probably your best available trade asset for an asset that won’t fill that need?

[stormi]

FVV would be awesome to have alongside Ben. He'd be able to run late game point, could operate a 2 man game with Embiid and would be a tremendous floor spacer. They'd compliment each other extremely beautifully.

FVV for Harris if Ben were to stay. But since Ben isn't staying FVV isn't of interest for me.

[76ciology]

ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤoncourtㅤㅤㅤon/off

Player A: ㅤ-2.2ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ-11.9
Player B: ㅤ+0.5ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ+8.5

Player A played 1200 minutes on a team with a 68 win % this year and secured HCA
Player B played 1700 minutes on a team that won 43% of their games and missed the playoffs badly

Ballers will ball.

You can compare Rudy Gobert or Draymond Greenand Zach Lavine or MPJ on/off and i’d still take Zach Lavine or MPJ over Gobert or Draymond Green, in context of the team’s need.

I’d even take Jordan Clarkson over Gobert

[76ciology]

When you’re building a team from scratch, you look at a player’s value in a vaccuum. But at some point, you need to look at a player’s value in context of the team you have as you have more data of your team’s direction and where the game is going.

We’re at that point. Actually we should have traded Ben in 2018, when we already saw this issue he has with Embiid.

If that’s our mindset, we could have won a championship by now by having traded Ben for Kawhi when the Spurs was asking for Ben. Then trade for Jimmy and probably wouldnt need to trade for Tobi.

Maybe let Jimmy walk. Tank a season. Have Jalen Green and Embiid now. Then if Embiid does want to win now, then you trade Jalen Green for some top tier star like Lillard. If you’re not lucky and have Kuminga instead, then trade Kuminga for someone like CJ and you’d be in the same place at where you are right now.

[stormi]

ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤoncourtㅤㅤㅤon/off

Player A: ㅤ-2.2ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ-11.9
Player B: ㅤ+0.5ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ+8.5

Player A played 1200 minutes on a team with a 68 win % this year and secured HCA
Player B played 1700 minutes on a team that won 43% of their games and missed the playoffs badly

Ballers will ball.

You can compare Rudy Gobert or Draymond Greenand Zach Lavine or MPJ on/off and i’d still take Zach Lavine or MPJ over Gobert or Draymond Green, in context of the team’s need.

Well yea, of course. You aren't going to put five centers on a starting five together for the sake of impact metrics. Their best service is for identifying the select ballers from the empty calories.

When you can combine a collection of ballers that promote individual on court positivity as maintaining positional symbiosis as a unit, you've achieved championship/dynasty status.