NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[Dirk]

Let's use this topic as a repository for nearly all covid/vaccine discussions.

We'll handle each new topic on their merits, but more often than not, if the topic offers no real fresh discussion, we'll either lock it or merge it into this one.

The aim of this topic is to prevent from having the board cluttered with new iterations of the same discussion, but at the same time have a place where users can discuss at length if they want to.

Thread etiquette
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Please refer back to this topic for some guidance.

Asking simply for some good sense. Random realgm users are not enemies. Nothing that gets written by a fellow user is ever that serious. It's just words on the internet. Do not overreact to opinions that you don't like.

A good tip: don't treat others as "pro vaxxers" or "anti vaxxers". Don't label anyone else. Treat them as unique and if you can't, simply ignore them and don't engage.

What a user writes, does not represent the GB or RealGM. So please, no generalisations.

Links of interest
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- CDC / - EMA

[LightTheBeam]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

[Texas Chuck]

Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.

[xdrta+]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

Because they are rich it makes a difference? You lost me there. And I'd need to see some evidence that the majority of them have already had Covid.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.

[LightTheBeam]

Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.

What are your thoughts on those who have natural immunity like Issac?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”

[LightTheBeam]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.

Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?

[LightTheBeam]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

Because they are rich it makes a difference? You lost me there. And I'd need to see some evidence that the majority of them have already had Covid.

Being rich gives them access to things like rapid daily testing. It also means that should one of them get sick from a teammate or fan, they can get reliable treatment extremely fast.

[jackman]

Come on now, everyone needs to know who to avoid for fantasy ball reasons!!!

[art_tatum]

My one thing about people saying my body my choice, its a personal decision, etc.
Not if it endangers others.

Its not my body my choice when you drive drunk.

Unless youre planning to stay home forever, not go into buildings, not be near people, its not my body my choice. But guess what, most people saying my body my choice dont wear masks and arent social distancing. Sure you probably dont kill the guy youre talking to at the bar, but he might get it then spread it to his grandma later, and so forth. Its a chain effect thats why we are in year 2.

Also, same people saying that want to ban abortion bc its NOT her body her choice. They think she is killing the "unborn child" endangering someone else. Keep the same logic then.

[jackman]

Come on now, everyone needs to know who to avoid for fantasy ball reasons!!!

On a serious note, everyone and everything says to do your own damn research before making decisions.

This for the most part is true but we also need to account for people that are doing research *wrong* or unknowingly spiraling down a path of misinformation.

Be patient, kind and helpful when trying to guide someone in finding useful reasearch/facts.

Social media of all sorts is for the most part is full of misinformation - not a great start.

Hospital websites, family physicians, pharmacists are great sources to start....

[Edrees]

Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.

What is your thoughts on those who have natural immunity like Issac?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”

I think everyone should get the vaccine, but I agree based on the research and all the studies like the one you quoted, that if you've already been infected within the last year, you probably don't need to get the vaccine and should have a good case as an exception to the mandates.

However, the unfortunate reality is that many people will take that as "Oh, then I shouldn't get vaccinated, when I actually get it I"ll get better immunity than the vaccine" when the issue isn't them, but the other people they could infect and the general transmission of the virus. As long as the priority is to get vaccinated if you've never been infected, I stand by anyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated due to the fact that they've already had Covid and have great protection against future infections.

[HomoSapien]

From a practical level, I'm curious to know what happens when guys like Beal, Wiggins, Kyrie, etc. start missing large amounts of games. Do they get fined? Is there a loss of salary? It's one thing if a bench warmer is doing this, but how do you get past it if one of your best players who is occupying a huge chunk of your salary cap is missing tons of games while healthy?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Good on the vast majority of players who are good teammates not only to their own teammates but to society at large for realizing that doing their part to help slow/stop the spread helps the more vulnerable members of society and can help to lessen the massive and unnecessary strain currently put on our medical system by those refusing to get vaccinated.

Be a good teammate. Get vaccinated.

What is your thoughts on those who have natural immunity like Issac?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”

I think everyone should get the vaccine, but I agree based on the research and all the studies like the one you quoted, that if you've already been infected within the last year, you probably don't need to get the vaccine and should have a good case as an exception to the mandates.

However, the unfortunate reality is that many people will take that as "Oh, then I shouldn't get vaccinated, when I actually get it I"ll get better immunity than the vaccine" when the issue isn't them, but the other people they could infect and the general transmission of the virus. As long as the priority is to get vaccinated if you've never been infected, I stand by anyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated due to the fact that they've already had Covid and have great protection against future infections.

The data on natural immunity is at the moment significantly worse than the data from vaccines, which, you know, actually went through clinical trials instead of an observational survey and was proven safe and effective. We also learned from the lessening of mask mandates that a lot of anti-vaxxers either don't believe in the science of transmission or don't care about other people and are willing to lie, so there would need to be something other than the honor system. That right has been lost. There's some emerging evidence that short term natural immunity paired with vaccination is the ideal. But for people who haven't been infected and aren't vaxxed, or whose immunity has waned, should not just be trying to get covid. And right now we really need to cut down on transmission especially amongst the unvaccinated, where mutations and more variants are the most harmful. This is all hands on deck kind of stuff. I don't think folks understand how much they are taking these relatively miraculous vaccines for granted and squandering the opportunity. If we get something that is vaccine resistant, we would all be screwed.

[xdrta+]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.

Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?

Certainly the first and probably the second. You cite one study, this cites several.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Bottom line:
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination

[LightTheBeam]

Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.

Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?

Certainly the first and probably the second. You cite one study, this cites several.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Bottom line:
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination

More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

So it seems that the evidence is pointing both ways depending on who is doing the study. As many have said, science is ever evolving, i'm sure we will learn a lot more in the coming years. Interesting that that study cites natural immunity fading faster. Wonder why they are now pushing a 3rd or in some cases even a 4th jab so soon after initial vaccination.

[loserX]

Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?

Certainly the first and probably the second. You cite one study, this cites several.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Bottom line:
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination

More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

So it seems that the evidence is pointing both ways depending on who is doing the study. As many have said, science is ever evolving, i'm sure we will learn a lot more in the coming years. Interesting that that study cites natural immunity fading faster. Wonder why they are now pushing a 3rd or in some cases even a 4th jab so soon after initial vaccination.

This appears to be a different argument.

x = prior infection
y = vaccination

One question is whether x > y.
To me the more important question is whether (x + y) > x.

[Slacktard]

Good on Wiggins, Beal, Irving, Issac and others! These are rich men who are in perfectly good health. Majority of them have already had covid and have superior natural immunity.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated, this should be a personal decision that doesn't require people bullying others.

Misinformation in the first post. Bodes well.

Which part is misinformation? The majority part, or the superior natural immunity?

You made two statements in that sentence... The first is complete supposition. You know for a fact they already have had COVID?

The second is nonsense. There is no correlation between physical health and COVID "immunity". There has been no person identified with a "superior natural immunity" to COVID.

You are more likely to suffer health impairments from COVID if no in good health, but it being in good health is not an immunity, it does not mean that person will NOT suffer from symptons and it does not mean the person will not be a spreader of COVID.

[Catchall]

Read on Twitter

[MoneyTalks41890]

Read on Twitter

So the "gotcha" here is supposed to be that people indoors unmasked in close quarters are catching Covid? How many of them have been hospitalized?