Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[BoogieTime]

For instance, all the Dallas reporters are "reporting" that KP looks great and is going to have a huge season under Kidd.

Do we all just believe that? I sure hope not.

There was a poster, not even sure who, who said Simmons value might be lower to start the camp as there is a bit of honeymoon with veterans returning to their teams saying the right things and "putting on 10 pounds of muscle"

I'm seeing that with the Kings with Fox/Haliburton doing too etc.

I wonder if this is true around the league

[Texas Chuck]

It's fascinating to me the players who we think it quite realistic might demand a trade and the players we insist definitely won't. Despite the former being in a much better situation even with the Simmons drama than the latter.

[jayjaysee]

For instance, all the Dallas reporters are "reporting" that KP looks great and is going to have a huge season under Kidd.

Do we all just believe that? I sure hope not.

So KP gonna start playing defense effectively again? Maybe that’s why no one values Dallas’ future picks.

[BullyKing]

Doesn’t that make Embiid asking for a trade more likely, instead of staying on that “road to absolutely nowhere?”

It seems you are assuming there is some team out there that wants to give a superstar return for Ben, and that Embiid will wait forever on that chance.

Yes, because waiting until the trade deadline or next offseason is the same thing as "forever."

Ok, you tell me. How long is Embiid going to wait with a $32 mil hole in the team’s payroll getting PHI zero production? Especially with his injury history, I doubt he takes any season for granted.

I don’t think a trade request is impossible here. Do you?

Yes because you're acting like Embiid isn't part of the discussions. If he says, I don't care what the return just trade him for help now or I'm demanding out, they will do it. If they decide to hold on to Ben for the foreseeable future, I am sure it is something that was discussed and agreed to with Embiid.

[BullyKing]

It's fascinating to me the players who we think it quite realistic might demand a trade and the players we insist definitely won't. Despite the former being in a much better situation even with the Simmons drama than the latter.

In fairness, its mostly fans of teams looking to acquire Simmons and trying to start up a new narrative now that the world didn't explode when Simmons failed to report on media day. Well that and Ballerhogger who seems to have devoted his life to posting 1,000 times why Simmons has no value.

[shrink]

It's fascinating to me the players who we think it quite realistic might demand a trade and the players we insist definitely won't. Despite the former being in a much better situation even with the Simmons drama than the latter.

In fairness, its mostly fans of teams looking to acquire Simmons and trying to start up a new narrative now that the world didn't explode when Simmons failed to report on media day. Well that and Ballerhogger who seems to have devoted his life to posting 1,000 times why Simmons has no value.

New narrative?!? What about your narrative?

- Ballhogger asked if Embiid might ask out
- You said that trading for “CJ alone is a road to nowhere.”
- National sources, with contacts with the actual front offices, say that maybe CJ alone, maybe not even that.
- You don’t think if Embiid would ask for a trade if he is on a “road to nowhere?” Or that he is willing to sacrifice a season or two (you never told me how long you expect Embiid to wait on a Simmons trade) on a star deal that may never come?

Finally, stop accusing opposing posters of bias when they disagree with your narrative. I am certainly no fan of Ben Simmons, and I fervently hope he doesn’t come to MIN. I feel his issues and his max deal is an all-or-nothing play that will fail, so I’m not trying to “acquire” Simmons cheap. Moreover, I don’t believe lying in an internet discussion to lower his value has one ounce of worth to the real teams. We aren’t the real GM’s here.

People are allowed to have different opinions, particularly when they track with national correspondents. And we should be allowed to discuss them here, even if they differ from your position, without any name-calling.

[TheNetsFan]

To 76ers: Irving + Nets Filler

To Nets: McCollum + Covington + Curry

To Blazers: J. Harris + Simmons

Simmons to Nets has been discussed. Not sure Durant or team would approve. Yes Simmons provides needed defense, but his no shooting and need for ball in hand doesn’t fit. How about McCollum + Covington. Covington becomes defensive specialist and McCollum replaces some of Irving scoring and shot creation. I could even see lineup with McCollum off bench as super scoring 6th (starting and finishing games).
C by Committee
Durant
Covington
McCollum
Harden
Curry off bench replaces a lot of J. Harris loss.

76ers get duo with Embiid as discussed many times.
Embiid
Harris
Green or Thybulle
Thybulle or Green
Irving (plus time at SG next to Maxey)

Blazers retool around Dame.
Nurkic
LNJ
Simmons
J. Harris
Dame

I'm not saying the Nets wouldn't move on from Kyrie, but there's no way they trade a guy that can carry the scoring load the way Kyrie can to an EC rival. If they trade Kyrie it will be to the west or to a non-threatening team.

[Texas Chuck]

New narrative?!? What about your narrative?

Ballhogger asked if Embiid might ask out
You said that trading for “CJ alone is a road to nowhere.”
National sources, with contacts with the actual front offices, say that maybe CJ alone, maybe not even that.
You don’t think if Embiid would ask for a trade if he is on a “road to nowhere?” Or that he is willing to sacrifice a season or two (you never told me how long you expect Embiid to wait on a Simmons trade) on a star deal that may never come?

Finally, stop accusing opposing posters of bias when they disagree with your narrative. I am certainly no fan of Ben Simmons, and I don’t believe lying in an internet discussion to lower his value has one ounce of worth to the real teams. We aren’t the real GM’s here.

Narrative isn't a negative term, or doesn't have to be. But yes, suggesting Embiid might want out qualifies as a narrative.

Also Windy throwing out on a podcast that Portland might not trade CJ for Simmons isn't something we must take at face value just because you do. I'm sorry, but we do not.

Embiid might ask out. This is true. But we have no evidence to suggest that. Another star center gave clear indications yesterday he was tired of taking the blame of his team's lack of winning and needed his organization to help him and we were told to read an SI article that somehow proves he will never want out.

I'm sorry these are narratives. No matter how angry that word makes you, these are narratives. We all have them. Hopefully we try for consistency, but we all are fans and we all fail.

[toooskies]

Embiid literally signed his extension last month. He's not demanding a trade this year with Simmons' situation clearly in a bad place when he signed it. And honestly after seeing what Simmons has done, he's not going to do the same thing to the team.

[shrink]

New narrative?!? What about your narrative?

Ballhogger asked if Embiid might ask out
You said that trading for “CJ alone is a road to nowhere.”
National sources, with contacts with the actual front offices, say that maybe CJ alone, maybe not even that.
You don’t think if Embiid would ask for a trade if he is on a “road to nowhere?” Or that he is willing to sacrifice a season or two (you never told me how long you expect Embiid to wait on a Simmons trade) on a star deal that may never come?

Finally, stop accusing opposing posters of bias when they disagree with your narrative. I am certainly no fan of Ben Simmons, and I don’t believe lying in an internet discussion to lower his value has one ounce of worth to the real teams. We aren’t the real GM’s here.

Narrative isn't a negative term, or doesn't have to be. But yes, suggesting Embiid might want out qualifies as a narrative.

Also Windy throwing out on a podcast that Portland might not trade CJ for Simmons isn't something we must take at face value just because you do. I'm sorry, but we do not.

Embiid might ask out. This is true. But we have no evidence to suggest that. Another star center gave clear indications yesterday he was tired of taking the blame of his team's lack of winning and needed his organization to help him and we were told to read an SI article that somehow proves he will never want out.

I'm sorry these are narratives. No matter how angry that word makes you, these are narratives. We all have them. Hopefully we try for consistency, but we all are fans and we all fail.

This is the first time I’ve ever heard you or Bully call your own positions a “narrative.” You both use the word to insult opposing views, and it seems hypocritical to me while you are pushing your own narrative.

I have never said that anyone has to accept Windhorst’s opinion as gospel. But he has access to insiders and front office personnel that you and I do not. Over the last few months, I have seen a constant refusal to put any weight into evidence from actual sources that disagree with your own narrative, and instead, you’ve created your own evidence to back up your opinion (You said Morey has been offering reasonable counteroffers for months when all of the national media says that is untrue). Windhorst and Quick aren’t gospel, but you shouldn’t stick your fingers in your ears if you are trying to find a reasonable position.

Finally, stop bringing over disagreements over from other threads - what KAT does or doesn’t do has nothing to do with what Embiid does.

[shrink]

Embiid literally signed his extension last month. He's not demanding a trade this year with Simmons' situation clearly in a bad place when he signed it. And honestly after seeing what Simmons has done, he's not going to do the same thing to the team.

Last month, Morey was still trying to get Lillard and Beal

Last month, there was still some hope that Simmons could be convinced to join the Sixers.

We are now on Option 3 - get what you can or wait. That’s what happened. I don’t think that can be overlooked in Embiid’s thinking, nor do I believe that losing games you’d normally win, with a $32 mil hole for zero production, will have no effect.

I have not said Embiid will demand a trade tomorrow. I have said that you can’t dismiss the possibility, and I asked how long Bully thought Simmons would wait.

[Sportfan73]

Embiid literally signed his extension last month. He's not demanding a trade this year with Simmons' situation clearly in a bad place when he signed it. And honestly after seeing what Simmons has done, he's not going to do the same thing to the team.

If it even got 25 percent to that point Morey would get Houston level aggressive

[doctor him]

About Joel and Simmons

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Yesterday it was about the Philly fans being (potentially) mean to him.

The day before that it was about "being shopped" (after he asked for a trade).

The day before that it was about the front office not reprimanding Rivers.

The day before that it was about being "thrown under the bus by teammates"

The day before that it was about being "unsupported by the coaching staff".


Point is that I can't trust this guy (Simmons) to be honest, transparent or accountable for anything in this situation. So there's nothing from his "camp" that I'm going to take with anything more than a grain of salt.

[Texas Chuck]

This is the first time I’ve ever heard you or Bully call your own positions a “narrative.” You both use the word to insult opposing views, and it seems hypocritical to me while you are pushing your own narrative.

I have never said that anyone has to accept Windhorst’s opinion as gospel. But he has access to insiders and front office personnel that you and I do not. Over the last few months, I have seen a constant refusal to put any weight into evidence from actual sources that disagree with your own narrative, and instead, you’ve created your own evidence to back up your opinion (You said Morey has been offering reasonable counteroffers for months) when all of the national media says that is untrue. Windhorst and Quick aren’t gospel, but you shouldn’t stick your fingers in your ears if you are trying to find a reasonable position.

Finally, stop bringing over disagreements over from other threads - what KAT does or doesn’t do has nothing to do with what Embiid does.

Nah when you want to publicly lecture me(again) about my posting history then its fair game for me to bring up your take on Towns. Either my other posts matter and thus so do yours or they both don't. You want to direct personal comments at me but not be held accountable for an apparent inconsistency. I don't blame you. I'd prefer to never have to be held accountable either.

And I've already addressed this with you, but let's do it one more time and see if you will listen to what I actually say or just create your own version because I have an opinion you do not like.

I do use the term narrative at times as a negative. Absolutely. But not with opinions I disagree with. With opinions that are based on highly flawed and flimsy premises. And this goes with opinions I agree with btw. More than any other poster on this entire board I speak up and say this deal or that deal is way too good for Dallas and that the justifications being provided by the Dallas fan aren't accurate.

I use it when the quality of argument is poor not the conclusion. Lots of posters think CJ for Simmons is fair but present real arguments and I don't dismiss them as narrative. I strongly disagree and push back, but I don't dismiss.

And I've been over local reporting too many times, but let's do it again. Do I think Portland might tell Jason Quick we aren't interested in trading CJ for Ben? Of course. Or that we don't want to trade CJ? Of course. Because there is zero benefit to them putting out the word that they are open to moving a guy who remains on their team. Might they really mean that? Yes, of course. Might they be open to it if they think it improves their team? I think so. But I don't think them saying otherwise means anything.

You told us the same thing on how we had to believe local reporting on Minnesota regarding Rosas. Then it turns out not only did he get fired but apparently he had been an issue for months so all that local reporting was inaccurate. Which is okay, they are only going by what their sources tell them, but its why I don't just read every report and nod in agreement.

Now I'd love it if this stopped being about attacking me for calling out narratives and got back to Ben Simmons,. Because I'm not going to accept all arguments as equally valid when they are not.

[Sportfan73]

This is the first time I’ve ever heard you or Bully call your own positions a “narrative.” You both use the word to insult opposing views, and it seems hypocritical to me while you are pushing your own narrative.

I have never said that anyone has to accept Windhorst’s opinion as gospel. But he has access to insiders and front office personnel that you and I do not. Over the last few months, I have seen a constant refusal to put any weight into evidence from actual sources that disagree with your own narrative, and instead, you’ve created your own evidence to back up your opinion (You said Morey has been offering reasonable counteroffers for months) when all of the national media says that is untrue. Windhorst and Quick aren’t gospel, but you shouldn’t stick your fingers in your ears if you are trying to find a reasonable position.

Finally, stop bringing over disagreements over from other threads - what KAT does or doesn’t do has nothing to do with what Embiid does.

Nah when you want to publicly lecture me(again) about my posting history then its fair game for me to bring up your take on Towns. Either my other posts matter and thus so do yours or they both don't. You want to direct personal comments at me but not be held accountable for an apparent inconsistency. I don't blame you. I'd prefer to never have to be held accountable either.

And I've already addressed this with you, but let's do it one more time and see if you will listen to what I actually say or just create your own version because I have an opinion you do not like.

I do use the term narrative at times as a negative. Absolutely. But not with opinions I disagree with. With opinions that are based on highly flawed and flimsy premises. And this goes with opinions I agree with btw. More than any other poster on this entire board I speak up and say this deal or that deal is way too good for Dallas and that the justifications being provided by the Dallas fan aren't accurate.

I use it when the quality of argument is poor not the conclusion. Lots of posters think CJ for Simmons is fair but present real arguments and I don't dismiss them as narrative. I strongly disagree and push back, but I don't dismiss.

And I've been over local reporting too many times, but let's do it again. Do I think Portland might tell Jason Quick we aren't interested in trading CJ for Ben? Of course. Or that we don't want to trade CJ? Of course. Because there is zero benefit to them putting out the word that they are open to moving a guy who remains on their team. Might they really mean that? Yes, of course. Might they be open to it if they think it improves their team? I think so. But I don't think them saying otherwise means anything.

You told us the same thing on how we had to believe local reporting on Minnesota regarding Rosas. Then it turns out not only did he get fired but apparently he had been an issue for months so all that local reporting was inaccurate. Which is okay, they are only going by what their sources tell them, but its why I don't just read every report and nod in agreement.

Now I'd love it if this stopped being about attacking me for calling out narratives and got back to Ben Simmons,. Because I'm not going to accept all arguments as equally valid when they are not.

I agree with you on it being not fair value and hope it would be Cov and a first but both teams saying “everything is perfect this is fine we are happy” seems like the perfect storm for them to all of the sudden strike a deal a week into camp lol

[shrink]

Now I'd love it if this stopped being about attacking me for calling out narratives and got back to Ben Simmons,. Because I'm not going to accept all arguments as equally valid when they are not.

Your inventing of evidence on Morey offering reasonable deals for Simmons IS about Simmons. It’s a basis for your Simmons narrative. Twice before that, you brought up my opinion on KAT, which has nothing to do with Simmons - just an attempt to discredit someone.

This board used to be about working collaboratively. We debated things with honesty and with evidence. Now though, it is often a place where posters simply try to discredit other posters if they don’t share their views. This has come from the top - you can scroll back in the last two pages to see them. Entire posts are just to claim someone is biased. Worse, a new standard is applied.

Lord grant me strength.

[Texas Chuck]

Now I'd love it if this stopped being about attacking me for calling out narratives and got back to Ben Simmons,. Because I'm not going to accept all arguments as equally valid when they are not.

Your inventing of evidence on Morey offering reasonable deals for Simmons IS about Simmons. Twice before that, you brought up my opinion on KAT, which has nothing to do with Simmons - just an attempt to discredit someone.

This board used to be about working collaboratively. We debated things with honesty and with evidence. Now though, it is often a place where posters simply try to discredit other posters if they don’t share their views. This has come from the top - you can scroll back in the last two pages to see them. Worse, a new standard is applied.

Lord grant me strength.

This is so ridiculous right now. I freely admitted I had no evidence about Morey having reasonable discussions. Or you know, the opposite of making it up. I cited Occam's Razor for why I thought that. I could be wrong, and you are welcome to think I am wrong, and that Occam's Razor is an unreasonable reason to believe that he's not only asking for packages he knows he could never get. But I stand by that.

And do not imply I am a liar please. I am many things, both good and bad, but one thing I am is direct. I tell you exactly what I think and why I think it. And I have zero interest in discrediting posters, but I will discredit posts that warrant that. This board in addition to being about collaboration also needs to be about standard of posts. This is not a place where all posts should be treated as equally valid.

And yes as a moderator it is my job to try and elevate the level of discussion. I can absolutely suck at tone sometimes because I am direct. I wish I was Mamba or LoserX and could always be positive and uplifting. But I am nothing if not brutally fair and direct with posters on every side of an argument. And will continue to be for as long as I can stand this place.

And finally I apologize for bringing up KAT. I did so to illustrate narrative but I offended you and it is never my intention to offend anyone.

And you having responded to my offering up a prayer itt in a certain way and then doing so here to mock me. I won't call you a hypocrite like you do me, but its rich. And ballsy AF.

[BullyKing]

Now I'd love it if this stopped being about attacking me for calling out narratives and got back to Ben Simmons,. Because I'm not going to accept all arguments as equally valid when they are not.

Your inventing of evidence on Morey offering reasonable deals for Simmons IS about Simmons. It’s a basis for your Simmons narrative. Twice before that, you brought up my opinion on KAT, which has nothing to do with Simmons - just an attempt to discredit someone.

This board used to be about working collaboratively. We debated things with honesty and with evidence. Now though, it is often a place where posters simply try to discredit other posters if they don’t share their views. This has come from the top - you can scroll back in the last two pages to see them. Entire posts are just to claim someone is biased. Worse, a new standard is applied.

Lord grant me strength.

You have no evidence Embiid will demand a trade if Simmons isn't traded soon - but you have no problem speculating that to be the case any way.

Towns is on record as being tired of the losing and yet you think it's ridiculous to suggest he might ask out.

I'm sure you will try and overcomplicate this clear inconsistency with some lengthy word salad but that's what it is no matter how you try and spin it.

Have a good one Shrink.

[Roy The Natural]

New narrative?!? What about your narrative?

Ballhogger asked if Embiid might ask out
You said that trading for “CJ alone is a road to nowhere.”
National sources, with contacts with the actual front offices, say that maybe CJ alone, maybe not even that.
You don’t think if Embiid would ask for a trade if he is on a “road to nowhere?” Or that he is willing to sacrifice a season or two (you never told me how long you expect Embiid to wait on a Simmons trade) on a star deal that may never come?

Finally, stop accusing opposing posters of bias when they disagree with your narrative. I am certainly no fan of Ben Simmons, and I don’t believe lying in an internet discussion to lower his value has one ounce of worth to the real teams. We aren’t the real GM’s here.

Narrative isn't a negative term, or doesn't have to be. But yes, suggesting Embiid might want out qualifies as a narrative.

Also Windy throwing out on a podcast that Portland might not trade CJ for Simmons isn't something we must take at face value just because you do. I'm sorry, but we do not.

Embiid might ask out. This is true. But we have no evidence to suggest that. Another star center gave clear indications yesterday he was tired of taking the blame of his team's lack of winning and needed his organization to help him and we were told to read an SI article that somehow proves he will never want out.

I'm sorry these are narratives. No matter how angry that word makes you, these are narratives. We all have them. Hopefully we try for consistency, but we all are fans and we all fail.

This is the first time I’ve ever heard you or Bully call your own positions a “narrative.” You both use the word to insult opposing views, and it seems hypocritical to me while you are pushing your own narrative.

I have never said that anyone has to accept Windhorst’s opinion as gospel. But he has access to insiders and front office personnel that you and I do not. Over the last few months, I have seen a constant refusal to put any weight into evidence from actual sources that disagree with your own narrative, and instead, you’ve created your own evidence to back up your opinion (You said Morey has been offering reasonable counteroffers for months when all of the national media says that is untrue). Windhorst and Quick aren’t gospel, but you shouldn’t stick your fingers in your ears if you are trying to find a reasonable position.

Finally, stop bringing over disagreements over from other threads - what KAT does or doesn’t do has nothing to do with what Embiid does.

Frustratingly true in bold here.

[BullyKing]

Narrative isn't a negative term, or doesn't have to be. But yes, suggesting Embiid might want out qualifies as a narrative.

Also Windy throwing out on a podcast that Portland might not trade CJ for Simmons isn't something we must take at face value just because you do. I'm sorry, but we do not.

Embiid might ask out. This is true. But we have no evidence to suggest that. Another star center gave clear indications yesterday he was tired of taking the blame of his team's lack of winning and needed his organization to help him and we were told to read an SI article that somehow proves he will never want out.

I'm sorry these are narratives. No matter how angry that word makes you, these are narratives. We all have them. Hopefully we try for consistency, but we all are fans and we all fail.

This is the first time I’ve ever heard you or Bully call your own positions a “narrative.” You both use the word to insult opposing views, and it seems hypocritical to me while you are pushing your own narrative.

I have never said that anyone has to accept Windhorst’s opinion as gospel. But he has access to insiders and front office personnel that you and I do not. Over the last few months, I have seen a constant refusal to put any weight into evidence from actual sources that disagree with your own narrative, and instead, you’ve created your own evidence to back up your opinion (You said Morey has been offering reasonable counteroffers for months when all of the national media says that is untrue). Windhorst and Quick aren’t gospel, but you shouldn’t stick your fingers in your ears if you are trying to find a reasonable position.

Finally, stop bringing over disagreements over from other threads - what KAT does or doesn’t do has nothing to do with what Embiid does.

Frustratingly true in bold here.

If you think Chuck or I are relying on an unfounded narrative then call us out and say so. But you're not going to stop us from expressing our opinions in the process. And if someone disagreeing with you is so frustrating then post elsewhere.