Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[jbk1234]

I think GS gets cut out here pretty easily. If OKC is getting 2 2nds, it's for eating Cedi.

I've seen your take on Wiggins's value on other threads and respect your opinion, but I think his value is still about the same for teams outside of SF/NY -- he's a solid, but overpaid player on a bad contract. He'll replace some of Simmons's defense and the 76ers will hope he shoots 38% from 3 again. I imagine he'll be pretty valuable next year as an expiring.

As for vaccination status, I'm sure teams will talk a lot, but I doubt they'll actually care as long as the player can play in home games.

No team is gonna take wiggins knowing that state vaccination rules can change at any time. It’s too big of a risk for a player who’s just not worth it. Until he gets the vaccination, nobody is gonna pay anything more than an equally bad contract for a player they’re not playing, and even then, they probably won’t. Like would cavs give up love for him? I’m really not sure

I wouldn't. The Cavs announced they anticipate the entire team will be vaccinated with a week.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I just want to drop in with a quick comment - without making this about specific players - that talent (and impact) is not distributed linearly in the NBA and the price of players reflects the exponential nature of a real distribution curve. Meaning you generally have to pay significantly more than 2x the price to get 2x the impact. I don't know if its 3x or 4x or whatever - that can be up for debate in addition to specific players being over or under paid - but especially toward the top end those "little" differences are worth a whole lot more.

Its why the common refrain around here is "quality over quantity".

[zimpy27]

I just want to drop in with a quick comment - without making this about specific players - that talent (and impact) is not distributed linearly in the NBA and the price of players reflects the exponential nature of a real distribution curve. Meaning you generally have to pay significantly more than 2x the price to get 2x the impact. I don't know if its 3x or 4x or whatever - that can be up for debate in addition to specific players being over or under paid - but especially toward the top end those "little" differences are worth a whole lot more.

Its why the common refrain around here is "quality over quantity".

Yeah I agree with this. It comes down to 5 guys on a court so it's actually talent per body in your 5 guys on the court that gives you an advantage.

It would only be close to linear if every player of the 15 could be on the court at once.

[Ballerhogger]

With that in mind wouldn’t the sixers be better off
With
Milton/maxey
CJ
RoCo
Tobais
Joel?

[kuclas]

With that in mind wouldn’t the sixers be better off
With
Milton/maxey
CJ
RoCo
Tobais
Joel?

See no point of having Covington come back. Him and Harris are competing for almost same position.

The trade that makes the most sense is CJ for Harris for Portland And Philly. Plus whatever fits both teams needs

People need to look at sixers rare home losses to Golden State and Suns late April 2021 without Ben Simmons on perimeter defense. So many open shots for opponents. Even with thybulle giving Devon booker ptsd it still wasn’t enough to beat the suns.

[Texas Chuck]

I just want to drop in with a quick comment - without making this about specific players - that talent (and impact) is not distributed linearly in the NBA and the price of players reflects the exponential nature of a real distribution curve. Meaning you generally have to pay significantly more than 2x the price to get 2x the impact. I don't know if its 3x or 4x or whatever - that can be up for debate in addition to specific players being over or under paid - but especially toward the top end those "little" differences are worth a whole lot more.

Its why the common refrain around here is "quality over quantity".

This was precisely why I didn't want to give Roy a set number to plug into his formula. I agree you have to pay a real premium and saying CJ costs nearly 4x as much does not mean I think he's obligated to give 4x the impact for that cost difference to be warranted.

My issue with this debate continues to be in real world examples, specifically with Philly where to to trade for CJ means they are giving up a really good player whereas Portland could trade for Curry without doing so. So we have to factor in everything into a trade--the matching salary matters a lot. Some teams have enough money they don't mind moving to match CJ and should give a better asset along with that salary to get CJ over Curry in most cases. Other teams can't realistically match the salary in a way that makes sense to also add an asset that they might give for Curry whom they can just add to what they have.

But yes Curry or Dame are worth far more than even a player as good as Kyle Lowry despite not making that much more money. Because they change the entire calculus of your team in ways Lowry can't.

[BoogieTime]

I just want to drop in with a quick comment - without making this about specific players - that talent (and impact) is not distributed linearly in the NBA and the price of players reflects the exponential nature of a real distribution curve. Meaning you generally have to pay significantly more than 2x the price to get 2x the impact. I don't know if its 3x or 4x or whatever - that can be up for debate in addition to specific players being over or under paid - but especially toward the top end those "little" differences are worth a whole lot more.

Its why the common refrain around here is "quality over quantity".

This was precisely why I didn't want to give Roy a set number to plug into his formula. I agree you have to pay a real premium and saying CJ costs nearly 4x as much does not mean I think he's obligated to give 4x the impact for that cost difference to be warranted.

My issue with this debate continues to be in real world examples, specifically with Philly where to to trade for CJ means they are giving up a really good player whereas Portland could trade for Curry without doing so. So we have to factor in everything into a trade--the matching salary matters a lot. Some teams have enough money they don't mind moving to match CJ and should give a better asset along with that salary to get CJ over Curry in most cases. Other teams can't realistically match the salary in a way that makes sense to also add an asset that they might give for Curry whom they can just add to what they have.

But yes Curry or Dame are worth far more than even a player as good as Kyle Lowry despite not making that much more money. Because they change the entire calculus of your team in ways Lowry can't.

I don't think McCollum makes sense because of Maxey

Curry is a bench talent IMO

But Maxey is a solid prospect that will be a starting guard, and is IMO Philly's third best asset

Despite how many times I hear it, McCollum isnt a PG.

So I don't think Maxey/McCollum will work

[fluffhead]

Warriors trade: Wiggins moody
Get; Simmons
Gs gets Simmons

Cavs trade: sexton
Get: moody
Cle balance the roster

76ers trade: Simmons
Get: sexton Wiggins
Phil gets a pg and a good sf

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Despite how many times I hear it, McCollum isnt a PG.

Yeah, while I would love to sell you all on CJ, and he has stepped up on the rare occasion that Dame sits, he is not a playmaking PG. He uses his creative ability to score first and as a secondary option makes the "simple" pass - hence why he is low turnover for his usage.

He would be ideal on a team with a fantastic passer with size (Jokic would be sick, Luka/Giannis/Simmons/LeBron also good fits) or on a team with several above average passers (Indiana for example).

I don't know if the plan is to run more offense through Embiid during the course of the game, which if Embiid can expand that part of his game and function more like a point center (like Jokic) it may work, but CJ is not going to routinely set Embiid up for easy looks at the basket - something that Simmons (for all his warts) is pretty dang great at, meaning Embiid would have to do a lot more work setting himself up. If I am running a team and my best player is a center it would be important to me to have a very good passer at the point position, as much as Philly also needs a guard who can create their own offense.

[BullyKing]

Despite how many times I hear it, McCollum isnt a PG.

Yeah, while I would love to sell you all on CJ, and he has stepped up on the rare occasion that Dame sits, he is not a playmaking PG. He uses his creative ability to score first and as a secondary option makes the "simple" pass - hence why he is low turnover for his usage.

He would be ideal on a team with a fantastic passer with size (Jokic would be sick, Luka/Giannis/Simmons/LeBron also good fits) or on a team with several above average passers (Indiana for example).

I don't know if the plan is to run more offense through Embiid during the course of the game, which if Embiid can expand that part of his game and function more like a point center (like Jokic) it may work, but CJ is not going to routinely set Embiid up for easy looks at the basket - something that Simmons (for all his warts) is pretty dang great at, meaning Embiid would have to do a lot more work setting himself up. If I am running a team and my best player is a center it would be important to me to have a very good passer at the point position, as much as Philly also needs a guard who can create their own offense.

You raise a great point that I don't think gets enough attention in these threads. A lot of people are basing their offers to Philly on the old train of thought that Philly needs as much shooting as it can get. But that's because of Simmons. If he's the one going out, it's really not a need at all as all of the starters are above average 3pt shooters except Maxey and he was a rookie at 30%.

Philly needs to be focusing on shot creation and half court initiation which was an issue even with Simmons in any return.

[zimpy27]

Despite how many times I hear it, McCollum isnt a PG.

Yeah, while I would love to sell you all on CJ, and he has stepped up on the rare occasion that Dame sits, he is not a playmaking PG. He uses his creative ability to score first and as a secondary option makes the "simple" pass - hence why he is low turnover for his usage.

He would be ideal on a team with a fantastic passer with size (Jokic would be sick, Luka/Giannis/Simmons/LeBron also good fits) or on a team with several above average passers (Indiana for example).

I don't know if the plan is to run more offense through Embiid during the course of the game, which if Embiid can expand that part of his game and function more like a point center (like Jokic) it may work, but CJ is not going to routinely set Embiid up for easy looks at the basket - something that Simmons (for all his warts) is pretty dang great at, meaning Embiid would have to do a lot more work setting himself up. If I am running a team and my best player is a center it would be important to me to have a very good passer at the point position, as much as Philly also needs a guard who can create their own offense.

Lillard for Simmons+Maxey+Thybulle makes more sense, just not going to happen.

[Sportfan73]

Despite how many times I hear it, McCollum isnt a PG.

Yeah, while I would love to sell you all on CJ, and he has stepped up on the rare occasion that Dame sits, he is not a playmaking PG. He uses his creative ability to score first and as a secondary option makes the "simple" pass - hence why he is low turnover for his usage.

He would be ideal on a team with a fantastic passer with size (Jokic would be sick, Luka/Giannis/Simmons/LeBron also good fits) or on a team with several above average passers (Indiana for example).

I don't know if the plan is to run more offense through Embiid during the course of the game, which if Embiid can expand that part of his game and function more like a point center (like Jokic) it may work, but CJ is not going to routinely set Embiid up for easy looks at the basket - something that Simmons (for all his warts) is pretty dang great at, meaning Embiid would have to do a lot more work setting himself up. If I am running a team and my best player is a center it would be important to me to have a very good passer at the point position, as much as Philly also needs a guard who can create their own offense.

You raise a great point that I don't think gets enough attention in these threads. A lot of people are basing their offers to Philly on the old train of thought that Philly needs as much shooting as it can get. But that's because of Simmons. If he's the one going out, it's really not a need at all as all of the starters are above average 3pt shooters except Maxey and he was a rookie at 30%.

Philly needs to be focusing on shot creation and half court initiation which was an issue even with Simmons in any return.

Which I do feel like CJ offers

[babyjax13]

I think if Philly gets McCollum, Rubio would actually be a very nice pairing with him.

[zimpy27]

PHI get CJ+LeVert
CJ, Green, LeVert, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

POR get Siakam
Lillard, Powell, Covington, Siakam, Nurkic -- Simons, Snell, Little, Nance, Zeller

IND get Simmons+Curry+Achiuwa
Curry, Brogdon, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, JHoliday, Oshae, Achiuwa, Goga

TOR get Sabonis+Lamb
FVV, Trent, OG, Barnes, Sabonis -- Flynn, Lamb, Watanabe, Boucher, Birch


It's a big trade but I like it for everyone.
- Rick gets to build a super-efficient offense around Simmons, Curry, Brogdon
- Raptors get their starting C and can move Barnes into starting squad
- Portland get good value for CJ, become a much stronger defensive team
- Philly get two guys that can initiate scoring in the half-court

[BullyKing]

Chicago:
Simmons
Joe

Get the defensive piece and passer to bring together their new lineup. Line-up is basically tailor made for Simmons except for Derozan but even he shoots from deep just not from 3.

Orlando:
Derrick Jones
Troy Brown

Take on an extra couple million this year to save 11 million next year.


Sixers:
Coby White
Pat Williams
Terrance Ross
22/24/26 swap rights with Chicago (basically worded swap rights in the years they don't convey to Orlando and San Antonio)
Chicago 2028 unprotected 1st

Gets some win now help in White and Ross but some future upside in Williams and the picks. Also gets the Sixers under the tax for the year so they can reset and leaves them with over $20 million in expiring salary between Ross and Green if they want to make a push for another star next offseason.

[Godaddycurse]

Warriors trade: Wiggins moody
Get; Simmons
Gs gets Simmons

Cavs trade: sexton
Get: moody
Cle balance the roster

76ers trade: Simmons
Get: sexton Wiggins
Phil gets a pg and a good sf

missing multiple 1sts from GSW. At this point questionable Wiggins/Moody is even positive value

[Godaddycurse]

PHI get CJ+LeVert
CJ, Green, LeVert, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

POR get Siakam
Lillard, Powell, Covington, Siakam, Nurkic -- Simons, Snell, Little, Nance, Zeller

IND get Simmons+Curry+Achiuwa
Curry, Brogdon, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, JHoliday, Oshae, Achiuwa, Goga

TOR get Sabonis+Lamb
FVV, Trent, OG, Barnes, Sabonis -- Flynn, Lamb, Watanabe, Boucher, Birch

Portland owes lots of value to Philly. in your scenario i expect they get cut out altogether. I dont think masai will give up on achiuwa either (african connection and all).

[zimpy27]

PHI get CJ+LeVert
CJ, Green, LeVert, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

POR get Siakam
Lillard, Powell, Covington, Siakam, Nurkic -- Simons, Snell, Little, Nance, Zeller

IND get Simmons+Curry+Achiuwa
Curry, Brogdon, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, JHoliday, Oshae, Achiuwa, Goga

TOR get Sabonis+Lamb
FVV, Trent, OG, Barnes, Sabonis -- Flynn, Lamb, Watanabe, Boucher, Birch

Portland owes lots of value to Philly. in your scenario i expect they get cut out altogether. I dont think masai will give up on achiuwa either (african connection and all).

You don't think CJ+LeVert is enough value for Simmons+Curry? I suppose Warren for Korkmaz could be added, does that make up the difference or now an overpay?

[Godaddycurse]

Chicago:
Simmons
Joe

Get the defensive piece and passer to bring together their new lineup. Line-up is basically tailor made for Simmons except for Derozan but even he shoots from deep just not from 3.

Orlando:
Derrick Jones
Troy Brown

Take on an extra couple million this year to save 11 million next year.


Sixers:
Coby White
Pat Williams
Terrance Ross
22/24/26 swap rights with Chicago (basically worded swap rights in the years they don't convey to Orlando and San Antonio)
Chicago 2028 unprotected 1st

Gets some win now help in White and Ross but some future upside in Williams and the picks. Also gets the Sixers under the tax for the year so they can reset and leaves them with over $20 million in expiring salary between Ross and Green if they want to make a push for another star next offseason.

Orlando fans values Ross at more than just expirings (they've turned down deals for expirings and 2nds in other threads).
I think a chicago deal will be based around derozan. Don't see him/simmons coexisting very well together.

[Godaddycurse]

PHI get CJ+LeVert
CJ, Green, LeVert, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

POR get Siakam
Lillard, Powell, Covington, Siakam, Nurkic -- Simons, Snell, Little, Nance, Zeller

IND get Simmons+Curry+Achiuwa
Curry, Brogdon, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, JHoliday, Oshae, Achiuwa, Goga

TOR get Sabonis+Lamb
FVV, Trent, OG, Barnes, Sabonis -- Flynn, Lamb, Watanabe, Boucher, Birch

Portland owes lots of value to Philly. in your scenario i expect they get cut out altogether. I dont think masai will give up on achiuwa either (african connection and all).

You don't think CJ+LeVert is enough value for Simmons+Curry? I suppose Warren for Korkmaz could be added, does that make up the difference or now an overpay?

I have Curry > Levert and Simmons > CJ so it's well short on value for me.