Ben Simmons Trade Thread part V

[erving4ever]

From KOC The Ringer :

" Rivers shared how he planned to use Simmons this upcoming season anyway: Embiid and Simmons would stagger minutes more often, and when Embiid came off the floor, Simmons would play the 5, sharing the frontcourt with Tobias Harris and new addition Georges Niang. Rivers said he wanted to put Simmons in more situations that resemble Giannis Antetokounmpo’s role in Milwaukee, with four shooters surrounding him, empowering him to be a primary scoring option with the second unit. Rivers and Morey, according to sources, said that Simmons and Embiid are the best defensive duo in basketball, and with some slight tweaks, they could be even more productive on the offensive end. Simmons wasn’t enthused."

[76ciology]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

[76ciology]

From KOC The Ringer :

" Rivers shared how he planned to use Simmons this upcoming season anyway: Embiid and Simmons would stagger minutes more often, and when Embiid came off the floor, Simmons would play the 5, sharing the frontcourt with Tobias Harris and new addition Georges Niang. Rivers said he wanted to put Simmons in more situations that resemble Giannis Antetokounmpo’s role in Milwaukee, with four shooters surrounding him, empowering him to be a primary scoring option with the second unit. Rivers and Morey, according to sources, said that Simmons and Embiid are the best defensive duo in basketball, and with some slight tweaks, they could be even more productive on the offensive end. Simmons wasn’t enthused."

Same with my offseason plan with this team if we decides to keep Ben.

Let him play that Giannis role by getting a stretch big to play with. I thought it should be a stretch 5 though, but it seems they think Niang is that guy.

That would pump Ben’s numbers to something like 20-8-8, then we trade him when his value is high.

[MVP1992]

The moment that ruined Ben
LeBron made him think he's his 'heir apparent'

Self named King cuddles the Prince. Even put a little crown on his Twitter profile

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.thescore.com/nba/news/1522130/amp

[spikeslovechild]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

[76ciology]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

If Edwards was selected by the Wolves in the second round, and they can get a guy who can make all their pieces fit and win in return for him, they’d do it.

But they paid a first overall pick for him. So they’re in kool aid mode thinking Edwards can be the next michael jordan.

[syntax]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

If Edwards was selected by the Wolves in the second round, and they can get a guy who can make all their pieces fit and win in return for him, they’d do it.

But they paid a first overall pick for him. So they’re in kool aid mode thinking Edwards can be the next michael jordan.

edit: mixxed up my Porter Jrs.

[spikeslovechild]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

What are you basing that off of? Porters 23 games in Houston?

As far as prospect wise first of all KPJ is not your typical end of the first round pick he only fell there due to character concerns which is a big part of why he was benched and let go in Cleveland.

Edwards still is the better prospect but had KPJ not had those character concerns he probably would have been a top 7 pick.

[Sportfan73]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

Gimme sexton Beasley backcourt let’s roll the dice lol

[Tomjas]

Sixers trade Simmons
Sixers receive Conley, White

Morey gets his All Star (who also happens to be a real pg) and a scorer plus both can defend

Spurs trade Murray, White and Young (expiring)
Spurs receive Simmons, Bogi

Jazz trade Conley, Bogi
Jazz receive Murray, Young (expiring)

Lost in all the Simmons stuff is the fact that the Jazz also flamed out and it’s their defence which cost them

They shore up their defence and get cap flexibility

Chuck in picks as required

[ecuhus1981]

Just what you've always wanted, another Simmons proposal! I know you may be tired of seeing them, please be gentle when you offer feedback. Thanks, guys:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/ca14l8d6weSpXY/fairer-picks-cle-lac-phi

CLE trades Love/Osman/Sexton for Morris/Kennard
The Cavaliers upgrade their rotation while trimming payroll and creating a new $17mil TPE.
Garland, Okoro, Morris, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Kennard, Windler, Wade, Mobley


LAC trades Morris/Kennard/22LAC2nd/25DET2nd/25LAC2nd/28LAC1st for Simmons/Osman
The Clippers push all-in for the perfect addition: a star playmaker and versatile defender.
Jackson, George, Leonard, Simmons, Zubac
Bledsoe, Mann, Osman, Batum, Ibaka


PHI trades Simmons for Love/Sexton/22LAC2nd/25DET2nd/25LAC2nd/28LAC1st
The Sixers cut bait on a talented malcontent, and return an elite young scorer, a veteran stretch big and future picks.
Sexton, Green, Thybulle, Harris, Embiid
Maxey, Milton, Korkmaz, Love, Drummond

[Simmons25]

This works. Would GSW do it though

[Zumramania]

From KOC The Ringer :

" Rivers shared how he planned to use Simmons this upcoming season anyway: Embiid and Simmons would stagger minutes more often, and when Embiid came off the floor, Simmons would play the 5, sharing the frontcourt with Tobias Harris and new addition Georges Niang. Rivers said he wanted to put Simmons in more situations that resemble Giannis Antetokounmpo’s role in Milwaukee, with four shooters surrounding him, empowering him to be a primary scoring option with the second unit. Rivers and Morey, according to sources, said that Simmons and Embiid are the best defensive duo in basketball, and with some slight tweaks, they could be even more productive on the offensive end. Simmons wasn’t enthused."

Great, why didn't Doc try this last year?

[76ciology]

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

What are you basing that off of? Porters 23 games in Houston?

As far as prospect wise first of all KPJ is not your typical end of the first round pick he only fell there due to character concerns which is a big part of why he was benched and let go in Cleveland.

Edwards still is the better prospect but had KPJ not had those character concerns he probably would have been a top 7 pick.

First off, i have edwards over KPJ in terms of value. But the gap for me is small but the price you need to pay for Edwards is significantly higher.

KPJ is just a year older, both averages 16-19ppg with around 52.+% TS%. Both have upward trajectory and are promising players, both can create their shots and be explosive scorers.

Now comparing KPJ to Sexton, both are very similar in terms of level as a scorer comparing both guys at age 20. 16.+ppg on 52TS%

If you will ask me, all three of Sexton, KPJ and Edwards have the skillset we need and are very close in terms of level as a scorer but each have a big disparity in terms of value.

Then if you look at Sexton and DFox, both are equals as scorers. You can even make a case that Sexton is the more impactful player based on oncourt and on/off numbers. While i wouldnt put too much (but still consider it as part of my overall data points) into the on/off numbers, for it is largely context dependent.

We dont know which player could be the best player among the 3 in x years but I find all three to be guys who can help our team and replace Ben’s role as our team’s second guy behind Embiid.

This exercise is not all about preference, it’s more about alternative options. We need to have alternative options if Edwards, Fox or Sexton are not available.

[76ciology]

From KOC The Ringer :

" Rivers shared how he planned to use Simmons this upcoming season anyway: Embiid and Simmons would stagger minutes more often, and when Embiid came off the floor, Simmons would play the 5, sharing the frontcourt with Tobias Harris and new addition Georges Niang. Rivers said he wanted to put Simmons in more situations that resemble Giannis Antetokounmpo’s role in Milwaukee, with four shooters surrounding him, empowering him to be a primary scoring option with the second unit. Rivers and Morey, according to sources, said that Simmons and Embiid are the best defensive duo in basketball, and with some slight tweaks, they could be even more productive on the offensive end. Simmons wasn’t enthused."

Great, why didn't Doc try this last year?

My take.

Its because of several factors. Biggest of which is our roster last year was expecting us to land Harden.

Then the chemistry issue in 2019-2020 also played a factor. We actually tried that on the 2019-2020 squad with Al, advanced analytics like 538 almost all media outlets had us projected to make it to the finals. Our on/off 5 man units without Embiid, looked like it’s at it’s best.

Then this season, I think we’re planning to land Dame. Thus the Drummond signing. But hedged it with Niang, to cater to Ben. Where I believe the intent was to either try out this structure of Ben playing that Giannis role as a long term scheme or use it as a pump and dump scheme where you have experiences with Ben almost traded for Harden and being shopped for Dame to justify that the FO does see Ben more as a trade asset than a long term piece.

[Tomjas]

From KOC The Ringer :

" Rivers shared how he planned to use Simmons this upcoming season anyway: Embiid and Simmons would stagger minutes more often, and when Embiid came off the floor, Simmons would play the 5, sharing the frontcourt with Tobias Harris and new addition Georges Niang. Rivers said he wanted to put Simmons in more situations that resemble Giannis Antetokounmpo’s role in Milwaukee, with four shooters surrounding him, empowering him to be a primary scoring option with the second unit. Rivers and Morey, according to sources, said that Simmons and Embiid are the best defensive duo in basketball, and with some slight tweaks, they could be even more productive on the offensive end. Simmons wasn’t enthused."

Great, why didn't Doc try this last year?

My take.

Its because of several factors. Biggest of which is our roster last year was expecting us to land Harden.

Then the chemistry issue in 2019-2020 also played a factor. We actually tried that on the 2019-2020 squad with Al, advanced analytics like 538 almost all media outlets had us projected to make it to the finals. Our on/off 5 man units without Embiid, looked like it’s at it’s best.

Then this season, I think we’re planning to land Dame. Thus the Drummond signing. But hedged it with Niang, to cater to Ben. Where I believe the intent was to either try out this structure of Ben playing that Giannis role as a long term scheme or use it as a pump and dump scheme where you have experiences with Ben almost traded for Harden and being shopped for Dame to justify that the FO does see Ben more as a trade asset than a long term piece.

“Hope for the best and plan for the worst” works first time and 99% of the time

The Drummond signing sums it up for me

Morey is not an analytics guy as Drummond is detrimental to a team’s chances of winning

Morey’s an opportunist who got lucky with Harden

Analytics is his schtick but it’s bs

[76ciology]

Great, why didn't Doc try this last year?

My take.

Its because of several factors. Biggest of which is our roster last year was expecting us to land Harden.

Then the chemistry issue in 2019-2020 also played a factor. We actually tried that on the 2019-2020 squad with Al, advanced analytics like 538 almost all media outlets had us projected to make it to the finals. Our on/off 5 man units without Embiid, looked like it’s at it’s best.

Then this season, I think we’re planning to land Dame. Thus the Drummond signing. But hedged it with Niang, to cater to Ben. Where I believe the intent was to either try out this structure of Ben playing that Giannis role as a long term scheme or use it as a pump and dump scheme where you have experiences with Ben almost traded for Harden and being shopped for Dame to justify that the FO does see Ben more as a trade asset than a long term piece.

“Hope for the best and plan for the worst” works first time and 99% of the time

The Drummond signing sums it up for me

Morey is not an analytics guy as Drummond is detrimental to a team’s chances of winning

Morey’s an opportunist who got lucky with Harden

Analytics is his schtick but it’s bs

Morey is heavy on analytics, and for me its his achilles heel. But he is very much aware of how value changes based on context.

If we have Harden or Dame, having Drummond or D12 makes sense. Drummond or D12 allows you to have a Harden or Dame centric team, which you need if Biid is unavailable. I think Doc spoke about this (how big the drummond signing if biid was unavailable).

I think you can surround a team that can max our Drummond. Another thing is this scheme we have were Drummond and D12 becomes a menace that it gets opponents into bad position with their team or personal foul situations. So when Biid goes back to the game, he’d have an easier time scoring.

I actually like the Drummond signing in the context of we getting a scoring guard in return for Biid and if we have to factor in that Biid has to miss a lot of games and how our team +/- drops when Biid is off the court. But I dont like the Drummond signing if we plan to stagger Biid and Ben’s minutes.

You can read it on the offseason thread where I stated I believe the best way to handle this team was to pump and dump Ben, and you do it by putting Ben into the Giannis role. Have Biid sacrifice some of his game temporarily. Then just trade Ben when his value is at it’s highest. And I think Doc and Morey thinks of the same thing with this news of us wanting to run the same scheme (without the pump and dump mention).

[spikeslovechild]

I dont think the FO is that high on Edwards anyway.

He’s always been an inefficient scorer, with 0 to negative defense and average at best playmaking. He could be so much better but I dont think the FO can wait for him to improve.

If end up with Beasley and a treasure chest of picks, I’m OK with that as long as it’s enough to get me someone like Sexton.

Beasley is no slouch btw. He is one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His 3pt shooting numbers is a little below klay thompson in terms of % (+-40%) and attempts (8.7/g). I would have keep him if we have someone more talented than Maxey.

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

If Edwards was selected by the Wolves in the second round, and they can get a guy who can make all their pieces fit and win in return for him, they’d do it.

But they paid a first overall pick for him. So they’re in kool aid mode thinking Edwards can be the next michael jordan.

Noone viewed KPJ the same going out as they did Edwards even without the character concerns KPJ he was viewed as more of the Jaylen Brown type (a guy who I also liked at the time) with an attitude problem. Of course Jaylen Brown entered the league not being able to shoot a lick either that is sort of the rub some players develop their game others don't for whatever reason. I'd also be very careful charting a narrative out of such a small sample size in Houston.

There is also the weird situation with the Cavs. I mean they basically gave up on him after a pretty decent rookie year for a second round pick there seems to be a ton of stuff with him that is sort of known within league circles but not spoken outloud for public consumption. I sort of view Beasley the same way it's part of the reason when I laughed at making him the headliner in a deal. He's a headcase. He doesn't have that kind of value around the league imo despite when you look at his raw stats you see a good player hell I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves were trying to dump him to improve the culture there.

As far as Edwards offensive game was considered more polished. The book on him was he had special athleticism but he has a tendency to bail out defenders by not being assertive and using his physical to attack the basket. I think we sort of saw that his rookie year there is no reason someone with his physical gifts should have been averaging as many 3's and 2's.

Part of that could have been the Timberwolves maybe in a lost year they made the decision to have him shoot 3's and work on his midrange game. I mean if you want to be honest it's one of the biggest mistakes we made with Ben we allowed him to be confortable as a rookie and really his entire career just doing the things he was already good at. It's why I sort of don't know if Edwards numbers tell the entire story. Could he have averaged 14-16 points driving to the rim and taking open 2's and 3's with good efficiency? I think he would have. We will see as his game develops. I do think when you look at Edwards his stroke is good. He is a good FT shooter as well. I think that his midrange game will come in time but there were questions how committed he was to the game of basketball coming out too.

He certainly some holes in his game right now but Ben has holes as well. Ben IS the better player right now but does anyone have any faith in him ever reaching his potential? I don't. I'd be more than willing to take a chance on Edwards reaching his and there is a host of other factors to consider as well for one Edwards is still on his rookie contract and another is we need to move Simmons at some point. I also think Edwards probably is an easier sell if we do try to get dame or beal down the line because teams in that position will value potential over who is the better at the moment. Timberwolves maybe desperate enough to not care but if Ant is offered we should take it and run.

[Tomjas]

My take.

Its because of several factors. Biggest of which is our roster last year was expecting us to land Harden.

Then the chemistry issue in 2019-2020 also played a factor. We actually tried that on the 2019-2020 squad with Al, advanced analytics like 538 almost all media outlets had us projected to make it to the finals. Our on/off 5 man units without Embiid, looked like it’s at it’s best.

Then this season, I think we’re planning to land Dame. Thus the Drummond signing. But hedged it with Niang, to cater to Ben. Where I believe the intent was to either try out this structure of Ben playing that Giannis role as a long term scheme or use it as a pump and dump scheme where you have experiences with Ben almost traded for Harden and being shopped for Dame to justify that the FO does see Ben more as a trade asset than a long term piece.

“Hope for the best and plan for the worst” works first time and 99% of the time

The Drummond signing sums it up for me

Morey is not an analytics guy as Drummond is detrimental to a team’s chances of winning

Morey’s an opportunist who got lucky with Harden

Analytics is his schtick but it’s bs

Morey is heavy on analytics, and for me its his achilles heel. But he is very much aware of how value changes based on context.

If we have Harden or Dame, having Drummond or D12 makes sense. Drummond or D12 allows you to have a Harden or Dame centric team, which you need if Biid is unavailable. I think Doc spoke about this (how big the drummond signing if biid was unavailable).

I think you can surround a team that can max our Drummond. Another thing is this scheme we have were Drummond and D12 becomes a menace that it gets opponents into bad position with their team or personal foul situations. So when Biid goes back to the game, he’d have an easier time scoring.

I actually like the Drummond signing in the context of we getting a scoring guard in return for Biid and if we have to factor in that Biid has to miss a lot of games and how our team +/- drops when Biid is off the court. But I dont like the Drummond signing if we plan to stagger Biid and Ben’s minutes.

You can read it on the offseason thread where I stated I believe the best way to handle this team was to pump and dump Ben, and you do it by putting Ben into the Giannis role. Have Biid sacrifice some of his game temporarily. Then just trade Ben when his value is at it’s highest. And I think Doc and Morey thinks of the same thing with this news of us wanting to run the same scheme (without the pump and dump mention).

Drummond is dog**** and I have no problem if he never takes the floor for the Sixers

Morey resigned before Houston punted him and he cost us Harden

Clippers punted Doc and he cost us the Hawks series

They have cost us a decent return for Ben

That’s reality

[76ciology]

Spoiler:

Beasley is not an asset. He is a ticking time bomb. There is a better than decent chance he is out of the league before his contract ends. I'd be fine taking him back as a requirement for getting Ant but I prefer not to trade for him at all and if he is the centerpiece of any trade I'd not only walk but run away. He is Javaris Crittenton or Delonte West on steriods.

As far as Edwards goes right now he is flawed but he was only what 19 last year. He has so much potential. Simmons btw is flawed too. Ideally we would be moving Simmons for Beal or dame but at this point if someone comes with us with a comparable or better offer prospect wise we should just take it and move on.

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

If Edwards was selected by the Wolves in the second round, and they can get a guy who can make all their pieces fit and win in return for him, they’d do it.

But they paid a first overall pick for him. So they’re in kool aid mode thinking Edwards can be the next michael jordan.

Noone viewed KPJ the same going out as they did Edwards even without the character concerns KPJ he was viewed as more of the Jaylen Brown type (a guy who I also liked at the time) with an attitude problem. Of course Jaylen Brown entered the league not being able to shoot a lick either that is sort of the rub some players develop their game others don't for whatever reason. I'd also be very careful charting a narrative out of such a small sample size in Houston.

There is also the weird situation with the Cavs. I mean they basically gave up on him after a pretty decent rookie year for a second round pick there seems to be a ton of stuff with him that is sort of known within league circles but not spoken outloud for public consumption. I sort of view Beasley the same way it's part of the reason when I laughed at making him the headliner in a deal. He's a headcase. He doesn't have that kind of value around the league imo despite when you look at his raw stats you see a good player hell I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves were trying to dump him to improve the culture there.

As far as Edwards offensive game was considered more polished. The book on him was he had special athleticism but he has a tendency to bail out defenders by not being assertive and using his physical to attack the basket. I think we sort of saw that his rookie year there is no reason someone with his physical gifts should have been averaging as many 3's and 2's.

Part of that could have been the Timberwolves maybe in a lost year they made the decision to have him shoot 3's and work on his midrange game. I mean if you want to be honest it's one of the biggest mistakes we made with Ben we allowed him to be confortable as a rookie and really his entire career just doing the things he was already good at. It's why I sort of don't know if Edwards numbers tell the entire story. Could he have averaged 14-16 points driving to the rim and taking open 2's and 3's with good efficiency? I think he would have. We will see as his game develops. I do think when you look at Edwards his stroke is good. He is a good FT shooter as well. I think that his midrange game will come in time but there were questions how committed he was to the game of basketball coming out too.

He certainly some holes in his game right now but Ben has holes as well. Ben IS the better player right now but does anyone have any faith in him ever reaching his potential? I don't. I'd be more than willing to take a chance on Edwards reaching his and there is a host of other factors to consider as well for one Edwards is still on his rookie contract and another is we need to move Simmons at some point. I also think Edwards probably is an easier sell if we do try to get dame or beal down the line because teams in that position will value potential over who is the better at the moment. Timberwolves maybe desperate enough to not care but if Ant is offered we should take it and run.

What i meant is KPJ and Edwards draft position determines their present value and upside rather than what their production is now.

If KPJ was selected first overall by the Wolves while Cavs drafted Edwards in the second round then traded him cheaply to the Rox, then it would take more assets to trade for KPJ than Edwards.

And lastly, what I meant is there’s a really good chance KPJ and Edwards are mere equals as players at the same age and age+x years (future).

Like Ben, Edwards’ value is driven by being drafted first overall. I dont see Edwards being a top tier star, nor a scoring monster (volume+efficiency) nor a two way player nor a scorer who can be alpha playmaker. But i dont know the future and how things will turn out and im just basing it on current evidence we have now and not some hopium just because you draft someone 1st overall pick

Regarding Ben, he should have asked to be traded after year 1 and we should also have traded him after his year 1. We pretty much put all our eggs in the basket of Ben becoming a better perimeter shooter where there is 0 evidence for it to happen. Like I said, we could have won a championship by now if we have traded him for Kawhi when the Spurs was asking for either Ben or Embiid.