Ben Simmons Trade Thread part V

[Stanford]

I still can't get over this guy telling people that he wants to be the number one option.

Serious question: which NBA teams would Ben Simmons be the number one option on today? None?

[ConstableChaos]

From KOC The Ringer :

" Rivers shared how he planned to use Simmons this upcoming season anyway: Embiid and Simmons would stagger minutes more often, and when Embiid came off the floor, Simmons would play the 5, sharing the frontcourt with Tobias Harris and new addition Georges Niang. Rivers said he wanted to put Simmons in more situations that resemble Giannis Antetokounmpo’s role in Milwaukee, with four shooters surrounding him, empowering him to be a primary scoring option with the second unit. Rivers and Morey, according to sources, said that Simmons and Embiid are the best defensive duo in basketball, and with some slight tweaks, they could be even more productive on the offensive end. Simmons wasn’t enthused."

This is BS, why did they sign drummond - or is he purely cover for the unrepaired embiid knee?

[RedSalsa]

I still can't get over this guy telling people that he wants to be the number one option.

Serious question: which NBA teams would Ben Simmons be the number one option on today? None?

I don’t honestly think there is one.

[spikeslovechild]

Spoiler:

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

If Edwards was selected by the Wolves in the second round, and they can get a guy who can make all their pieces fit and win in return for him, they’d do it.

But they paid a first overall pick for him. So they’re in kool aid mode thinking Edwards can be the next michael jordan.

Noone viewed KPJ the same going out as they did Edwards even without the character concerns KPJ he was viewed as more of the Jaylen Brown type (a guy who I also liked at the time) with an attitude problem. Of course Jaylen Brown entered the league not being able to shoot a lick either that is sort of the rub some players develop their game others don't for whatever reason. I'd also be very careful charting a narrative out of such a small sample size in Houston.

There is also the weird situation with the Cavs. I mean they basically gave up on him after a pretty decent rookie year for a second round pick there seems to be a ton of stuff with him that is sort of known within league circles but not spoken outloud for public consumption. I sort of view Beasley the same way it's part of the reason when I laughed at making him the headliner in a deal. He's a headcase. He doesn't have that kind of value around the league imo despite when you look at his raw stats you see a good player hell I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves were trying to dump him to improve the culture there.

As far as Edwards offensive game was considered more polished. The book on him was he had special athleticism but he has a tendency to bail out defenders by not being assertive and using his physical to attack the basket. I think we sort of saw that his rookie year there is no reason someone with his physical gifts should have been averaging as many 3's and 2's.

Part of that could have been the Timberwolves maybe in a lost year they made the decision to have him shoot 3's and work on his midrange game. I mean if you want to be honest it's one of the biggest mistakes we made with Ben we allowed him to be confortable as a rookie and really his entire career just doing the things he was already good at. It's why I sort of don't know if Edwards numbers tell the entire story. Could he have averaged 14-16 points driving to the rim and taking open 2's and 3's with good efficiency? I think he would have. We will see as his game develops. I do think when you look at Edwards his stroke is good. He is a good FT shooter as well. I think that his midrange game will come in time but there were questions how committed he was to the game of basketball coming out too.

He certainly some holes in his game right now but Ben has holes as well. Ben IS the better player right now but does anyone have any faith in him ever reaching his potential? I don't. I'd be more than willing to take a chance on Edwards reaching his and there is a host of other factors to consider as well for one Edwards is still on his rookie contract and another is we need to move Simmons at some point. I also think Edwards probably is an easier sell if we do try to get dame or beal down the line because teams in that position will value potential over who is the better at the moment. Timberwolves maybe desperate enough to not care but if Ant is offered we should take it and run.

What i meant is KPJ and Edwards draft position determines their present value and upside rather than what their production is now.

If KPJ was selected first overall by the Wolves while Cavs drafted Edwards in the second round then traded him cheaply to the Rox, then it would take more assets to trade for KPJ than Edwards.

And lastly, what I meant is there’s a really good chance KPJ and Edwards are mere equals as players at the same age and age+x years (future).

Like Ben, Edwards’ value is driven by being drafted first overall. I dont see Edwards being a top tier star, nor a scoring monster (volume+efficiency) nor a two way player nor a scorer who can be alpha playmaker. But i dont know the future and how things will turn out and im just basing it on current evidence we have now and not some hopium just because you draft someone 1st overall pick

Regarding Ben, he should have asked to be traded after year 1 and we should also have traded him after his year 1. We pretty much put all our eggs in the basket of Ben becoming a better perimeter shooter where there is 0 evidence for it to happen. Like I said, we could have won a championship by now if we have traded him for Kawhi when the Spurs was asking for either Ben or Embiid.

Edwards was always viewed as the first overall pick that didn't come out thin air and the issues that caused KPJ to drop out of the top 10 to the end of the 1st round haven't disappeared either.

I think you are making a mistake of looking at their similar playing style and assuming they are in the same class of prospect they are not. Also you keep making the mistake of using those 23 games as a baseline which is problematic for a couple of reasons one of which that it's obvious it's 23 games the other is Edwards was a rookie last year. MPJ averaged 10 as a rookie on mediocre efficiency. When MPJ was a rookie he was coming off the bench on a terrible CAVS team when Edwards was a rookie he was essentially forced to be the guy with the Minnesota roster in a constant state of flux.

It really is ludicrous to compare the two right now. I don't pretend to know Ants career is going to play out he has all the gifts to be a superstar in this league but then again so did Ben. It's all about how he works on his game and develops as a player but he is lightyears ahead of where MPJ was his rookie year. I think if he never gets traded he is going to take a massive step forward just by the fact of the Wolves being healthy and who is around him where he can instead play more in the flow of an offense rather than forcing him to anchor their offense to a 19 year old rookie.

[Negrodamus]

https://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/phi

I don’t know if this was a depth chart released by the Sixers, but it’s very funny that Ben is the fourth string PF.

[the_process]

This is an interesting experiment.

If Edwards is selected in the second round, would you value him as much?

If yes, then why not just go after Kevin Porter Jr? KPJ has better playmaking abilities than Edwards and just a tad below in scoring.

Im not trying to bring down Edward’s value. My point is…

how much you pay for something determines your value for it.

What are you basing that off of? Porters 23 games in Houston?

As far as prospect wise first of all KPJ is not your typical end of the first round pick he only fell there due to character concerns which is a big part of why he was benched and let go in Cleveland.

Edwards still is the better prospect but had KPJ not had those character concerns he probably would have been a top 7 pick.

First off, i have edwards over KPJ in terms of value. But the gap for me is small but the price you need to pay for Edwards is significantly higher.

KPJ is just a year older, both averages 16-19ppg with around 52.+% TS%. Both have upward trajectory and are promising players, both can create their shots and be explosive scorers.

Now comparing KPJ to Sexton, both are very similar in terms of level as a scorer comparing both guys at age 20. 16.+ppg on 52TS%

If you will ask me, all three of Sexton, KPJ and Edwards have the skillset we need and are very close in terms of level as a scorer but each have a big disparity in terms of value.

Then if you look at Sexton and DFox, both are equals as scorers. You can even make a case that Sexton is the more impactful player based on oncourt and on/off numbers. While i wouldnt put too much (but still consider it as part of my overall data points) into the on/off numbers, for it is largely context dependent.

We dont know which player could be the best player among the 3 in x years but I find all three to be guys who can help our team and replace Ben’s role as our team’s second guy behind Embiid.

This exercise is not all about preference, it’s more about alternative options. We need to have alternative options if Edwards, Fox or Sexton are not available.

I don't think HOU wants to trade KPJ, though. And the only reason MIN might even consider trading Edwards is specifically because of Ben, his game, and his relationship with KAT and DLo.

[erving4ever]

The much discussed Sexton ...

Marla Ridenour @MRidenourABJ
about 1 hour ago
ICYMI: ‘We want him here long term': #Cavs, Collin Sexton discussing rookie contract extension beaconjournal.com/story/sports/p… via @beaconjournal

[Lou_23]

Read on Twitter

I believe this. He is a coward

[agiaco]

I'm on board with the CJ, Roco and 2 firsts deal

[Stanford]

Of course he's okay with it. He doesn't even like playing basketball.

[NYSixersFan]

I still can't get over this guy telling people that he wants to be the number one option.

Serious question: which NBA teams would Ben Simmons be the number one option on today? None?

He's #2 if you know what I mean

[Negrodamus]

The much discussed Sexton ...

Marla Ridenour @MRidenourABJ
about 1 hour ago
ICYMI: ‘We want him here long term': #Cavs, Collin Sexton discussing rookie contract extension beaconjournal.com/story/sports/p… via @beaconjournal

I'll believe it when the ink has dried.

[the_process]

Of course he's okay with it. He doesn't even like playing basketball.

You're right. And he gets paid half his salary to sit home and play COD all day.

[the_process]

I still can't get over this guy telling people that he wants to be the number one option.

Serious question: which NBA teams would Ben Simmons be the number one option on today? None?

He's #2 if you know what I mean

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Let him sit, fine...But we're not paying this dumbass child.

[the_process]

I'm on board with the CJ, Roco and 2 firsts deal

Can they get another team to take CJ and give up something more valuable or impactful?

[thenbaman]

He can sit all 4 years for all i care,lets see how klutch likes not getting paid.

[Stanford]

The new Process is letting Ben sit for four years and winning a title anyway.

[the_process]

He can sit all 4 years for all i care,lets see how klutch likes not getting paid.

Pretty sure agents get their 10% off the top.

[the_process]

Does half of Ben's salary come off the cap?